Wii sensor bar hax0red
By Paul Miller 
posted Nov 21st 2006 9:03PM
posted Nov 21st 2006 9:03PM
We're sure most of you Wii users are too busy Googling Zelda walkthroughs or chucking your Wiimote at the TV right now to give this hack much notice, but if you're the type that just has to know how something works and then destroy it utterly (you know who you are), then you might want to have a looksee at this one. Apparently some enterprising hax0rs tore apart their Wii sensor bar, only to find a couple of standard IR emitters. It turns out the "sensor" bar doesn't actually sense at all, it just sends out a pair of IR beams which can then be triangulated by the Wiimote. This of course opens up the possibility of DIY sensor bars and other related (performance enhancing?) hacks, but it still won't do much to help you through that extended "intro" phase in Twilight Princess, so sorry. Click on to view the vid of a custom-rigged sensor bar in action.[Via Joystiq]
I actually play my WII through a projector and I put 2 candles at the bottom of the screen, and it works great.
Dave
I knew about this when I first set up my Wii. Looking at the sensor bar through a camera you can see the five leds on each side emitting colors in the infrared spectrum.
the wii can kill you
This means slim wireless sensor bars! Just two little boxes with a D cell battery and a powerful IR led that you could set near the corners of your tv and be good to go.
as long as it works good whats the big deal the rays dont hurt u....do they....
hell, no. IR Radiation is everywhere. Even people emit IR Radiation.
What the hell is hax0red?
hax0red - a nerdy synonym for hacked
Can we hold off on the Wii hacks/mods until more of them are friggin' released so the rest of us can enjoy it too?!
I can't even get one and already, we've seen it smashed and now hacked.
WHINE, WHINE, WHINE... OK, I'm through.
no one cares
I can almost guaranty the ability to get a wii once every 2 weeks our local walmart just got some yesterday i picked mine up and they had exactly 2 weeks ago yesterday too my boss picked his up there were 5 -7 each delivery.
bless you, nerds.
IR, is there anything it can't do? :)
I was wondering what Screech was up to :-P
So...if ALL it does is emit a few IR beams, could you say - integrate some IR LEDs into the bezel of your tv and have everything function ok?
A wireless sensor bar would be nice for those using projectors
Calling all Nerds!
...one more thing, how are we certain that the sensor bar is actually just sending broadcast iR signals and not instead sending actual iR data to the Wiimote?
Nice start though. It kinda makes the Wiimote seem a little more sophisticated than the SIXAXIS (Don't worry, I like the PS3 too).
Didn't you see them just bloody test that theory with using 2 normal TV remotes? *slaps head*
actually for us projector users the thing to do is to put 2 high powered II_LEDs behind the screen about 1/3 of the way up and about 2 to 4 feet apart depending on your screen size. then use the bottom setting on the placement menu works wonders and makes things much less finicky with the placement.
So theoretically you could have a much stronger infrared light emitter somewhere around there, and then get a much stronger signal? Or better yet you could simply put infrared LED's directly into the tv?
Someone enlighten me.
Finally, people are realizing that the Wii isn't as sophisticated as it's made out to be. About time too.
moron. You've clearly not played one. I don't care what you're a fan of, you're an idiot
They didn't take apart the sensor bar or hack anything. What a misleading headline/article.
Yes, I saw the demo and the tracking was sketchy. Also, we did not see a demo of the Wiimote without any iR transmitters at all (as a control). I'm just suggesting that observation is not enough to prove a theory.
I'm proposing that the "Sensor Bar" sends data through the array of iR beams that help the Wiimote better triangulate its position. By sending different signals through different iR beams, the WiiMote reads the data and, based upon the data or combination of data, can determine its position.
e.g. The far left iR might send a specific code to indicate the far left side. If the WiiMote picks up this code (or combination of codes) it can triangulate its position.
Again, it's a good start and maybe someone out there that knows about iR can shed some light on this (no pun intended).
Actually, this technology has existed for years in the form of the Stealth Imaging system that's used in neurosurgery to precisely locate brain tumors and other intracranial lesions. The same principle applies: infrared rays shot from a single source are reflected off several reflective spots on a specialized probe, and triangualted to determine the probe's position in space. By plugging that into a previous CT scan (usually one showing the location of the tumor), neurosurgeons are able to scoop out as much tumor as possible while (hopefully) sparing as much brain as possible. The Wii probably isn't as precise as the Stealth is (the Stealth probe uses 6 sensor points; I'm assuming the Wii uses fewer), but I imagine it's much more responsive for it.
he unplugged the sensor bar and the wiimote was not working. there's your control
@ Reginald
I'm pretty certain that the front of the Wii-Mote doesn't contain any IR receivers. It's a camera that picks up the IR light. So I doubt that the IR transmitters are sending data.
This gives me a great idea (that I will never act on like all my other great ideas).
My TV has a USB port.
USB ports carry power.
I could mount IR emitters in in stylish black cases that will not distract from my TV.
Mount them (somehow) on the sides of my TV in the middle and possibly have better pointing when I use the Wiimote.
However I don't know if the Wii will function properly with the two emitters far apart (61" TV). Though I'm sure that some company is already hammering out a manufacturing deal to build the same thing as I type this.
Inside the sensor bar:
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=677908&seqNum=3&rl=1
big:
http://www.informit.com/content/images/art_fogie_insidewii/elementLinks/wiifig26.jpg
It's just a bunch of LEDs.
You know it's not sending any data since it works fine with any other IR source.
It's just a CMOS (camera) sensor in the Wii-mote. That's all. No magic.
but it still emits IrDA data in the form of location signals. For someone to replicate this they would need to simulate the IrDA data being sent or just use the LEDs and components inside and mount them to a 5.2V supply source since it connects to USB.
Anyone care to sacrifice their Wii on this little experiment?
At any rate, the Wii still sounds cool and has created some innovation in at least one area of gameplay.
That's all, not magic. Nothing special about a consumer level device ($40) that can real time see reference points and return accurate pointing information. Plus 6 DOF accelerometer info, plus speaker and feedback.
Nah, that's no big deal.
so, could another remote control (IR device) confuse the Wii remote?
If that's the case, rivals could disrupt a game by pointing an IR device at the player. Those tiny (concealed) 'TV-off' keychain remotes could come in handy...
Looks like nintendo is still using Duck Hunt technology :)
Hey, it works! :D
This is proof that nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank. They are the best in the businezz at creating a product for .60 and selling it for $60. They've been using IR tech since the original NES, (light gun, and nintendo satellite to be more exact). This aint new thing and proves they don't need to charge 40 bucks for a freaking controller with a 20 analog numchuck attachment. Sure the remote got to do a little bit of "sensing" to do but that shouldnt make it 40 bucks! but good grief the wavebird was 34. still i think the numchuck should come with the remote come on thats like selling a person half of a controller!! what an ingenious rip off! Not to mention the hardware can't even match an old xbox! (the old xbox had a hard drive and more ram than this piece of junk and proc speed was matched at 700mhz. The wii's junk, i was hoping for at least a 1.0Ghz processor in the system. oh well death to consoles long live the PC!
No, this is proof that Nintendo is ingenious and uses simple designs to accomplish something more complicated, and frankly, very cool. Microsoft and Sony can only dream of this kind of innovation. That's why Nintendo can compete with systems twice as expensive - because they focus on interesting gameplay, not just eye candy and hype. While I don't like Nintendo games in general, I'm very interested in the Wii because of the motion sensing. It's a very different way of gaming and I like it.
Yes, because we all know that top-selling PS2 titles like Guitar Hero and DDR, which both use gimmick controls, aren't innovative in any way, right? Whatever. See, everyone credits Nintendo for thinking outside the box, but it's really the developers who have that job, especially when just about everyone here is so gung ho about touting gameplay. In fact, in my opinion, Nintendo has essentially BUILT a box inside of which developers can operate. Granted it's a totally different box than everyone else's, but where are the options? The classic controller? The, like, four useful buttons on the $60 Wiimote+Nunchuck? HA! I can't wait to have to read the boxes of games to see which control I SHOULD have bought for another $20-$40 per part.
At least with the DS, developers have a fall-back in that they can create a game just as they would have before, essentially rendering the innovation null. And if you want to talk to me about how that's NOT innovation and it wasn't Nintendo's intended purpose, I point you to one of the best-selling DS games made: New Super Mario Bros. Not only is it a 1st-party title, but it also makes very little necessary (or unique) use of the available screen. (And yes, I've completed this game with 3 stars.) Obviously, this isn't ideal, but it proves even the mothership doesn't rely on its own "innovation" as a way of making great games.
To me, Nintendo's BEST innovation, they're genius lies in two things: 1. making this console profitable right off the bat, and 2. selling it.
Boy, I really, really hope some good stuff comes out for Wii, I really do. I really, really want this antiquated machine to succeed just as the DS did.
By the way, I should mention that overall, I'm truly disappointed by this entire generation of consoles--so far. This is the first time I haven't been sold on a new system, I swear to you, since the NES--and what's worse is this is the first time I've ever been old enough to really afford one on my own!
Every launch since then has been exciting one way or another. In '95 and '00, I was SO, SO excited about the Playstations 1 & 2. I'm totally unimpressed with the 3, and Sony has totally alienated me (much like the original XBox) by doing an all 'round rushed hack-job on what could have been an amazing experience--and then telling me to pay $600 for it after dodging bullets on a freezing line. Again, I SO hope this thing succeeds. Needless to say, I will NOT own either this OR a Wii until they are proven.
As for the XBox 360, if I didn't have such a bad taste in my mouth from Part 1, I might consider it if there were more games to my liking. Both the Blade interface and the Live service are stellar, so far as my limited experience has proved. And if I hadn't been playing on Dual Shock's to the point of tattooed X's and O's on my thumb, I might even concede the comfort of the 360's controller.
I guess we'll see. For now, it's back to re-re-re-playing FFVII.
Well if this system is that simple then soon we'll see companies come out and adapt it for XBOX 360 and the PS3
You're forgetting that the wiimote also has all the accelerometers in it.
Plus, it's not an IR sensor, it's an IR camera. If you go into the Sensitivity Settings what you're looking at is a live picture of the remote. The two dots are the IR LEDs from the sensor bar. If you point a TV remote at your wiimote and hit a button, you can see the IR blast from it.
Just tested the voltage out of the back of my Wii. A steady 12.1 Volts DC. Trying to decide whether to take one of my universal power adapters and modding out my sensor bar so I can plug it in under my projector screen instead of having it stacked on top of boxes and having the cable running across the floor.
Ideas?
Just because the sensor bar is technically cheaply made doesn't mean that the Wiimote is cheap. The sensor bar is just to help maintain accuracy. It basically give the wiimote a reference point to 'reset' to if things get a little off with the gyros and accelerometers inside. With out the sensor bar accuracy would drift to the point of being unusable.
Exactly, I was thinking it'd be easy to splice with something like a MotoRAZR or other "mini-usb as a PowerAdapter" to just make it plug into any old outlet...
To clarify, the "gyros and accelerometers" inside the Wiimote have nothing to do with the reason for the sensor bar. They help the Wiimote determine both its position along the various axises, as well as the speed with which it accelerates from, say, point A to point B.
The sensor bar's purpose is to help the machine determine the position of the cursor on the screen through triangulation. It has nothing to do with filling in any blanks where other components fail.
Corrections:
"...gung-ho..."
"...their genius..."
I'm sure there are more. Sorry.
Another correction:
"Axes" is the plural form of "axis," not "axeses," Gilbert, you moron.
Sorry again.
Basically that is what I am saying. The internal sensors of the remote are not accurate enough by themselves to make pointing possible. Thats why you need the sensor bar as a point of reference.
The Wiimote could not point very well if it did not have its internal sensors too.
Nintendo does a pretty good job of explaining this in the "Iwata Aks" section on the wii website.
The sensor bar sends IR and the Wiimote tracks its position etc, ok. But hey, the Wiimote is connected to the Wii via Bluetooth, that's where all the data is communicated.
But since the tracking system is IR, doesn't the Wiimote loose track if it's hidden behind an arm, a chair a hand, or if it's not pointing towards the emitter etc? Or are the IR beams like rays that can be seen through the air like sci fi laser beams?
I'm glad it's just an IR emitter / receptor, this draws very little battery. And for you who said it's not so sophisticated after all... I think it's really sophisticated to use super cheap technology for a new use. Really well designed.
It's obvious this is how it works. Go to the sensitivity adjustment screen for the remote, and look at the image it uses to help you calibrate. It's showing you where the two IR beacons are showing up in the field of view of the remote's IR camera. The signal is probably somehow different between the two emitters (perhaps the frequency of the flashes?), since if I remember right the connector for the Sensor Bar only has two conductors in it, like it's just supplying power to whatever's in there. I'm amazed at how smoothly it tracks; when you hold your hand still, there's almost no motion whatsoever.
I guess one way to tell if the two IR beams are differentiated would be to flip the Sensor Bar over and see what the Wii yells at you... since it would know from the remote's sensors that the remote wasn't the one upside down...
That explains the thin wire and simple connector. It just provides power.
Nope. Not innovative at all.
The Power Glove used an ultrasonic three-point array to similar effect years ago. Some of those guys went on to make the P5 Glove, an IR-based reimplementation which relied on a large IR tower and quite a few IR LEDs on the glove itself. The P5 did have similar motion sensing capabilities, though.
Both of these things track like garbage, and the P5 is only a few years old. The pointer stutters, it loses sync all the time, and the hardware is painfully bulky, and it's not even wireless!
I bought a post-closeout P5 for $25. They originally sold for over $100, as I recall. For $60, I get a controller with 9 buttons, a D-Pad, an analog stick, and it's wireless. By comparison, the Wavebird went for what, $35? It had 8 buttons, a D-Pad, and two sticks. That extra $25 covers the speaker, the rumble, two separate sets of accelerometers for both the Nunchuk and the Remote, AND the IR triangulation hardware. It's sending a lot more data than any other console controller, so it's probably driving it at a higher bandwidth, bumping up the cost of your hardware even further.
You see a kiddie controller with no real innovation. I see the first consumer-grade 3D mouse that actually works.
Not sure what you mean by '3D mouse' but as far as the 'first' claim goes, it isn't. Gyration has been making mice that do what the Wiimote does for years. I've had one for years.
Just saying though! I love the Wii :D
My engineering sense would tell me that the LEDs in the sensor bar are polarized at perpendicular angles, and then the wiimote has IR photodiodes that are also behind polarizing filters, thus you can calculate the rotation of the remote in space by a simple calculation based on the current flowing through each diode. This would offer much more accuracy than the MEMS accelerometer chip in the wiimote.
What this makes me very curious about is if you could make your own bar that allows you to adjust the distance between the left and right set of IR beams.
This could possibly increase the direct aiming accuracy of the wiimote when used with large screens.
I have a 62" tv, and i find that when aiming down the wiimote, the calibration is way off from where I am pointing. I take this to be because nintendo chose a specific TV side to be "Optimal" and then hard locked their sensorbar to that setting.
By widening the distance between the beams, you'd trick the wii into thinking your TV was smaller than it is, and then would end up with a more accurate portrayal of "pointing".
Some of you are putting way too much thought into the complexity of the sensor bar, it is indeed strictly, 2, always on, no transmission, IR LEDs. I flipped the bar over, and you know what happened... nothing, the controller is full of accelerometers, it can tell which direction is up and down without the sensor bar, it just uses the 2 points for precise triangulation with the screen and the screen only. For all other functions, like playing parts of any game that doesn't use the onscreen pointer you can disconnect the bar and the game tracks all movement the same as it does with the sensor bar on.
"moron. You've clearly not played one. I don't care what you're a fan of, you're an idiot"
No, clearly I have, cuz that's why I know the Wii is terrible.
First of all, the Wii is just a gimmick, it's something that people will play for like five minutes, and then it will sit there collecting dust. This is exactly why the Wii will initially sell very well compared to its competitors. But in the long run, people will begin to realize that it actually has no good games and that gameplay is a b***h. With the PlayStation 3, and even the XBox 360, Sony Computer Entertainment and Microsoft have played it safe by using conventional gamepads. Nintendo did have the right idea when they implemented motion-sensing capabilities into the Wii remote, but they are going about it the wrong way. The Wii remote is just too much of a deviation from the traditional gamepad, and this limits the type of games that can be played with the Wii.
Second of all, what the Wii is trying to do is let users feel as though they are actually in the game. However, it's obvious that they didn't give this enough thought. With the Wii remote, how do you emulate the feel of a tennis racquet or a katana?! Simple, you can't. The problem here is the weight-distribution of the remote, it's a simple roughly 45/55 weight distribution between the two halves. But does a tennis racquet have 45/55 weight distribution?! Not any racquet I've ever used. In fact, the racquets I use are head-heavy, with around 60/40 weight distribution. And with a katana, the ratio is even larger. With the hilt, there's going to be less than 20% of the mass of the entire weapon. The rest is going to be in the blade. With the Wii, you can't get this type of sensation. What Nintendo should have done was have variable weight distribution to get the feel that they were actually going for.
Also, I've used the Wii for a number of applications, including both the system interface and gameplay. Both are terrible. In the system interface, the cursor feels way to sensitive, and in games, the remote does not register your actions accurately. While it is obvious that any motion-sensing device needs to be accurate in real-world applications, Nintendo could have at least put in some simple software changing the sensitivity of the cursor during use with the system interface.
In the long run, the PlayStation 3 will be the way to go. It has the hardware to last developers for years, and it's got the games to keep people coming back for more. With the PlayStation 3, SCEI has a real winner.
"In the long run, the PlayStation 3 will be the way to go."
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHahahhaahahahhh ha ha ha.. ahem. *giggle*
Can the Wii and more sensors be turned into a low cost motion capture system?
it most likely wont be as accurate as a professional one, bu tis it still possible?
"it just uses the 2 points for precise triangulation with the screen and the screen only."
Exactly, which is why if you mess with them and move them farther apart or closer together, it will behave differently (as if your screen is bigger or smaller). This could be quite handy for trying to get more accurate pointing on large screens.
Curious what others think of this (Pardon the length and frequent use of quote marks):
Given that:
The Sensor bar provides the Remote with the position of the screen (above, below), from which it gauges where the Remote is "actually" being pointed, along with two standard-length points to determine how far away it is from the screen(and tilt?). As a one-size-fits-all option Nintendo had to guess an average "bar to middle-of-screen" distance, and a comfortable viewing distance from said screen.
The larger your screen is, the more off those "best guesses" by Nintendo are. While it may not matter when using the Remote as a relative pointer, 1 to 1 accuracy is always preferable. Could a modded bar have an adjustable width to "fool" the Remote? A wider bar would place the Remote's guess of "center screen" longer in actual distance, allowing greater accuracy. Also, distance from screen would alter allowing for more comfortable (further away) game-specific callibrations, ala Zelda's callibration function.
Indeed, instead of waiting for third party products, you could cut the stock bar in half, and with a little bit of trial and error, callibrate the Wii for your specific set.
Luckily my puny screen is a pretty good fit, so I'm leaving my hacksaw in the tool shed.
Quote:
"Second of all, what the Wii is trying to do is let users feel as though they are actually in the game. However, it's obvious that they didn't give this enough thought. With the Wii remote, how do you emulate the feel of a tennis racquet or a katana?! Simple, you can't. The problem here is the weight-distribution of the remote, it's a simple roughly 45/55 weight distribution between the two halves. But does a tennis racquet have 45/55 weight distribution?! Not any racquet I've ever used. In fact, the racquets I use are head-heavy, with around 60/40 weight distribution. And with a katana, the ratio is even larger. With the hilt, there's going to be less than 20% of the mass of the entire weapon. The rest is going to be in the blade. With the Wii, you can't get this type of sensation. What Nintendo should have done was have variable weight distribution to get the feel that they were actually going for."
That was by far the stupidest anti console argument I have ever heard. Complaining about the weight distribution because it doesn't feel like a katana.. lol. Thanks for the mid-day humor.
"That was by far the stupidest anti console argument I have ever heard. Complaining about the weight distribution because it doesn't feel like a katana.. lol. Thanks for the mid-day humor."
lol i agree. because you know... the ps3 controler feels a lot more like a katana...right? LOL... NOT.
Wow, the Wii sucks because it doesn't simulate reality perfectly.
The truth is that they took a very simple and elegant technology and made it work in an infintely variable set of environments. If all you think it is a gimmick, then you have no imagination or far too high expectations. That's fine, but don't deride those who actually do have fun with the system, which by all accounts is quite a few people.
As for the IR bar, I don't think we can yet rule out that it might be sending data or at least blinking or something. It might blink at the same time it sends some kind of synching data over bluetooth to the controllers or something. If you go into the sensor bar sensitivity settings, you can basically see exactly how the remotes "see" the sensor bar. Yes it is simpler than the 'magic' we were led to believe it is, but it is still impressive because it works as well as it does while remaining fairly simple.
Im not sure how one could find the controller to be too sensitive in the system menus, as I found it to be very much easier to use than I thought it would be. It does something to stabilize the pointer a bit so that it is easier to point at things on the screen.
And I can so tell who sat down to play the system with an attitude of "man this is stupid, its going to suck so bad" because thats all they are ever going to be able to take away from the experience.
Well, as far as the whole accuracy when pointing at the screen thing goes, to me it shouldn't matter whether or not the pointer is pointing at the right point on the screen. Think about it, when you use a computer mouse the cursor on the screen isn't in the same location as the mouse on your mousepad. The pointer function of the Wiimote should be related to a computer mouse, in that your moving the pointer will move the cursor that amount, not that your pointing at a specific location will place the cursor at that location. Based on the size of your screen and the height of the Wiimote, the pointer may be close to where it should be or not very close at all. If you're not looking at the Wiimote when pointing, instead focusing on the cursor on the screen, you're not even going to notice that the pointer isn't pointing at the cursor. I happen to have a low couch and a big screen, so I have to point up with the Wiimote to pretend that I'm pointing at the screen, and I never even noticed that the pointer didn't match the cursor until I held the remote up to my eye and saw that the cursor was off.
People keep saying it would be a good thing to change the distance between the two sets of LEDs to have better accuracy.
Well in case you didn't know, the Wii settings enable you to change the sensitivity of the Wiimote, which, essentially does the same thing, but in software.
Unless people the maximum and minimum settings to be unsatisfying, it wouldn't serve any purpose to change the distance between LEDs.
Also, when you augment the distance between the LEDS, it means you'll have to make greater movements to move the cursor, is it a desirable thing?
On a computer, when you have a big 30" screen, you set your mouse to go faster than with a 15" screen, not slower.
VL-Tone, while it's true that yes, you'll have to make bigger movements if you set the LEDs further apart, the hope is that it would allow for a more natural aiming system, one such that the position of the cursor on the screen would more closely replicate the actual place one is aiming with the Wiimote.
While I've found that the Sensor Bar works very well and accurately with my 32" TV, I'd still like to try setting two IR LEDs at each end of the screen to see if there was any (noticeable) difference, and also simply cause I like hacking stuff. A lot.
Have you checked the related video from a guy named talljim ripping on the makers of the sensor bar video? Guy is a jerk if i've ever seen one!
lolz, to go even more "primitive"
two candles set up on top of your screen also emit enough IR to use your wii remote ;D
http://www.youtube.com/v/6iW1gKeV3Jc
Dudes, this information has been on the internet for weeks now... just see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiimote. The internal sensors can use dead reckoning, but the longer they are used the more they drift out of alignment; hence the sensor bar as a reference point.
So all plugging the Sensor bar into the Wii does is POWER the bar right? So should the Easiest, most elegant hack to be just splicing the cable coming out of the sensor bar and mating it with something like a Cell Phone AC Adapter, so we could just PLUG the sensor bar into any old outlet? And why, since not all TV set-ups would have the Wii within a few feet of the TV didn't they do this to begin with?
Our cat chewed through the cable for the sensor bar. Tried just spliceing the wires together with no luck. Only after getting an iron and heating the red wire strands first(to melt off the coating) then re-joining the wires were we able to get the bar online again. Since a new bar is only $10 we will be ordering 2 to keep as spares.
Or.. you no the wii comes with the "sensor" bar so I mean..you could use that to :-/
My sensor bar broke the other day when some MORON got their foot tangled in the cord and stepped on it, and after reading this article I realized that I could use candles as a replacement. Low tech, but it works and I don't have to pay 20$ and wait a week for a new sensor bar.
as i understand it, you can use any source of extreme heat. The controller senses it... Try pointing the remote at a candle in a dimly-lit room, in a direction away from your TV. It should work. Try not to burn your wii, tho. =)
people keep saying "gyros" and "multiple accelerometers"... it's just a single ADXL330 chip per wiimote and nunchuk that's got the 3 axis accelerometer in it.
http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,ADXL330,00.html