Arizona implements Lidar gun to nab tailgaters

While we can't say we're exactly fond of notorious tailgaters ourselves, we won't be the first to agree that fines in "the hundreds of dollars" are exactly fitting for those who like follow closely. Nevertheless, the Arizona Department of Public Safety is taking a note from Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, and Oregon by implementing a radar-based tracking system to calculate just how far back a car is from another while cruising on the freeway. Laser Technology's Lidar (no known connection to Liger) works essentially like a speed gun, except it boasts a higher level of accuracy and the ability to calculate the distance between passing cars down to the tenth of a second. Arizona cops are reportedly loving the new machine, as it's "basically impossible" to argue with, and supposedly "educates the people who get pulled" because of it. So if you get a thrill from seeing just how close you can come to kissing that bumper ahead of you, or you just get a testosterone rush every time you get behind the wheel, you may want to put a few seconds (at least) between you and your closest roadmate when rolling through AZ.

[Via Slashdot]

[Richard @ Dec 5th 2006 11:51AM]

Are Lidars bred for their skills in magic, too?

[JRA219psu @ Dec 5th 2006 11:52AM]

Sweet. I can't stand when people tailgate...can't wait for my state to start implementing this stuff. Yea thats right all you tailgain' sob's, the day of reckoning is here.

[JRA219psu @ Dec 5th 2006 11:52AM]

Sweet. I can't stand when people tailgate...can't wait for my state to start implementing this stuff. Yea thats right all you tailgaitn' sob's, the day of reckoning is here.

[Budi Prasetya @ Dec 5th 2006 11:59AM]

Dude, what if a person drive slow in the left (passing) lane? It is Illegal and RUDE! I'm not saying I'm a tailgater, but sometimes to see slow driver in the left lane is annoying. We need to educate them to move to the right if they're driving slow, rather than spending million of dollars to build bigger highway or invest in lidar.

[Wonderboy @ Dec 5th 2006 12:07PM]

I completely agree that slow drivers in the fast lane is annoying, but it's still not excuse for tailgating. You wanna go faster? Go around them.

I'm all for fining tailgaters, it's dangerous, rude, annoying, and most of all illegal.

[Christopher P. TOdd @ Dec 5th 2006 12:07PM]

Engadget, I would say that "the hundreds of dollars" is not enough. People who tailgate are a menace. Now if they can only develop a device that would catch those who weave in and out of lanes in a most dangerous fashion. Those are the next set of b______s that need fines in "the hundreds of dollars."

[crzy @ Dec 5th 2006 1:12PM]

Stop driving slow in the left lane and we'll stop weaving around you, deal?

[Peter Beckman @ Dec 5th 2006 12:07PM]

I'm with Budi. I'm SICK of people driving slow in the left lane. Here in DC it's horrible. I've considered getting a 150db train horn from hornblasters.com and some flashing yellow lights (dunno about legality there, but SOMETHING) to get them to move over. I don't mean to be rude, but I have no other ideas how to get people to move to the right.

I admit, I would be considered an aggressive driver. I don't cut people off, but I do exceed the speed limit. I always wait at least 1 second after my signal is on before I change lanes, and never change lanes without signaling. Every driver interprets my driving in a different way -- some have no problem, some think I'm a giant jerk. Oh well.

Anyway, Fairfax County would be rich if they got some of these devices and hit up I-495/The Beltway.

[dansken78 @ Dec 13th 2006 8:08PM]

Actually, going around a slow driver in the left lane would require you to pass from the right, which is illegal in most states... The train-horn idea sounds best. Or perhaps cops can start ticketing slow "fast-lane" drivers.

[TNATTY @ Dec 5th 2006 12:08PM]

That's great. While some idiot is slowly driving in the left lane, oblivious to constant string of cars passing them in the right lane, the AZ cops will ticket the guy stuck behind the idiot. I guess consistency is the hallmark of bureaucrats and cops - consistently stupid.

[Buzzcut @ Dec 5th 2006 12:10PM]

Lidar is not radar. It's a laser, not radio waves.

It is much more precise than a radar gun. It can be aimed at specific cars more easily than radar.

The best thing about Lidar? It can be legally jammed!

[joeljkp @ Dec 5th 2006 11:52PM]

How is lidar jammed? Ok, so the laser pulse exits the gun, bounces off the car, and is detected again by the gun. How is this jammed? Emitting other laser pulses?

[sandiegocali @ Dec 5th 2006 12:26PM]

It may be more precise, but it's also a hell of a lot easier to jam!!!
I have a laser jammer and tested it with my uncles lidar gun and it works as advertised.
This is what I use http://www.radarbusters.com/products/blinder/default.asp
Screw the cops, they are not trying to make the roads safer... they are trying to make $$$$$.

[sandiegocali @ Dec 5th 2006 12:27PM]

It may be more precise, but it's also a hell of a lot easier to jam!!!
I have a laser jammer and tested it with my uncles lidar gun and it works as advertised.
This is what I use http://www.radarbusters.com/products/blinder/default.asp
Screw the cops, they are not trying to make the roads safer... they are trying to make $$$$$.

[Pfft @ Dec 5th 2006 12:31PM]

"we won't be the first to agree that fines in "the hundreds of dollars" are exactly fitting for those who like follow closely"

You obviously haven't been involved in an accident caused by someone tailgating -- or had a family friend severely hurt (and hurt for life) in an accident caused by someone simply "following closely".

There is no excuse for tailgating. Yeah, slow drivers are a nuisance in the left lane, but is that an excuse for tempting fate? Calm down and get off the goddamned road if they're bugging you that fsking much.

[tiuk @ Dec 5th 2006 12:31PM]

The finest are perfectly fitting, considering the large number of highway accidents that could be avoided if people would just stop following so close.

[Joe @ Dec 5th 2006 12:33PM]

How about pulling over the slow bastard in front of them doing the same speed as the three people in the other lanes instead?

[Andy @ Dec 5th 2006 12:35PM]

Here in CA I also hate tailgaters. I don't know about other parts of the country, but these idiots seem to think that the bigger their car is, the more right they are in doing so. When I'm driving my lightweight (and fuel-efficient) Civic, at the same rate of traffic (many times well above the speed limit, so I am not "rude" and slow down traffic), these bastards with their big American-made super trucks are always tailgating. Like a 3-ton car could break soon enough and don't crush me if an animal or something else crossed my path and I had to break hard. And they're not the best drivers either. Idiots.

[Thinker @ Dec 5th 2006 12:36PM]

It�s about time. For each increment of 10 miles an hour in speed, a motorist should maintain a distance of at least one car length. If you are driving at 10 miles per hour, this equates to one car length. And if you are driving at 50 miles per hour, then you should have a distance of ten cars between your car and the car in front of you. I often see drivers maintain a distance of one car length while cruising at 50 miles per hour. Now imagine having someone like that driving behind you, eating a bag of potato chips, while talking on their cell phone. Ok, even if they are not eating potato chips and talking on their cell phone, I sure don�t want them driving that close to me. When you suddenly slam your feet on the brakes because another motorist suddenly cuts in front of you, then there goes your rear end!

Such drivers should be ticketed, fined, and then have their license suspended. No, I am not talking about someone suddenly coming up close behind you; I am talking about someone tagging you for at least a mile or more.

[dansken78 @ Dec 13th 2006 8:08PM]

Lots of mistakes in this comment. (1) it's actually 1 second for every 10 mph over 50 mph (formula only applies to highway driving), (2) based on your formula of 1 car length for every 10 mph, you would need 5 car lengths for 50 mph, which, if you think about it, is very unrealistic. As long as the "fast lane" driver yields to a car coming faster than him, there is no tailgating problem. If only our driving tests were as strict as Europeans'...

[Sarah @ Dec 5th 2006 12:39PM]

This is very cool, tailgaters DESERVE hundreds of dollars in fines ... and honestly, I think things like jammers (for lidar and radar) ought to be made illegal too.

[NHAnimator @ Dec 5th 2006 12:51PM]

Sorry to point this out, but "the ability to calculate the distance between passing cars down to the tenth of a second"? Distance is not measured in seconds.

"Thinker" is somewhat correct with his rule of thumb. Essentially, the average driver needs 1.5 seconds to perceive and implement (not complete) a response in normal, daytime driving conditions. 10MPH would require about 22' of travel distance. 60MPH would require about 132' of travel. This perception/reaction ONLY accounts for the distance you travel from the moment you first observe an object to the point at which you begin to swerve or brake. It doesn't take into account the distance you travel while you are still decelerating or swerving.

And "sandiegocali", you need to get educated. Police are not going to put their lives on the line - which they do with EVERY traffic stop - so their department can get richer. They don't get a bonus for pulling over grandma, you, or anyone else.

[Phreak511 @ Dec 5th 2006 12:51PM]

TNATTY @ Dec 5th 2006 11:57AM
"That's great. While some idiot is slowly driving in the left lane, oblivious to constant string of cars passing them in the right lane, the AZ cops will ticket the guy stuck behind the idiot. I guess consistency is the hallmark of bureaucrats and cops - consistently stupid. "

TNATTY -you sound like an 18 year old freshmen at the local jr. college with Che Guevara posters on his dorm room wall. Any more axes to grind?

Cheers!

[frb @ Dec 5th 2006 1:02PM]

Wow... some people really don't understand the basics of traffic law. It is never "illegal" to drive in the left lane if you are doing the speed limit. It is however illegal to exeed that speed limit, even if you are in the fast lane. I can't wait to get a hold of one of these after I get through the police academy (in arizona of all places).

[tardlet @ Dec 5th 2006 1:23PM]

Actually in many states it is illegal to drive in the fast lane if you are doing the speed limit but still impeding the flow of traffic. Basically, you are being ticketed for restricting the normal flow of traffic even if traffic is traveling faster than the speed limit. It is that driver's responsibility to switch to a lane where traffic is moving at a slower speed. That is also why many speeding tickets aren't for traveling faster than the speed limit but for traveling at a speed that is not reasonable or prudent under the circumstances/conditions. That's why speeding tickets are rarely given to people that are going faster than the posted limit but still going with the flow of traffic. It's the driver passing the cars in the flow of traffic that is targeted first.

[Keith @ Dec 5th 2006 4:31PM]

frb - I don't think people are talking about what's legal � they're talking about what's reasonable, which is something quite different. I hope that when you do get through the police academy, you'll bear in mind that laws exist to keep people safe � not to screw them over with arbitrary and inflexible restrictions.

[walk2k @ Dec 5th 2006 4:31PM]

Correct it is illegal to be in the passing lane w/o passing.
That's why it's called the passing lane.
Here in CA they have signs all over that say "SLOW TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT". The law actually says you must yield to faster traffic "irrespective of the speed limit". You can look it up!

[Neil Bradley @ Dec 5th 2006 6:12PM]

Yes, it is illegal to drive in the left lane when you're doing the speed limit and the traffic to the right of you is going at the same or higher speed than you. It's very clear in every state I've seen it in - it's called "Obstruction of the flow of traffic". If you aren't going faster than the right lane, you need to move over.

[jjd @ Dec 5th 2006 1:07PM]

frb, are you serious? I hope they will teach you the law better at your police academy. You say "It is never "illegal" to drive in the left lane if you are doing the speed limit."

Here in MA, at least, it is illegal to be in the left lane unless you are passing. Speed does not come into the equation. If you are in the left lane, and there is no car to your right, you are breaking the law.

[h0mi @ Dec 5th 2006 1:11PM]

I'm gonna have to crack open the DMV manual to find out what constitutes tailgating... is it following a car with less than 2 seconds of time between you? 1 second? I'm wondering what the _limit_ is as far as this lidar is concerned.

I was rear ended by a guy who wasn't paying attention, and the fact that he was tailgated caused him to hit me a 2nd time (I was stopped, he hits me, guy behind him hits him, he then hits me a 2nd time because he just got hit). I hate when people tailgate me for just this reason, especially at night since certain vehicles' headlights like to shine right in my eyes or are otherwise distracting.

As far as people going "too slow" in the left lane... if 75 mph is "too slow" in a 65mph speed limited freeway, you're going too fast. Troopers ought to enforce the rules in such a way that traffic flows freely and properly. That means people passing others on the right at 85 mph get pulled over, as well as people zig zagging, going too slow in the left lanes, and of course, tail gaters.

[George T @ Dec 5th 2006 1:19PM]

I'm in MA and the tailgators don't care lane you're in. That's just the way they drive. I mis-adjusted my rear windshield washer so occasionally I can give them a little squirt.

[Ken @ Dec 5th 2006 1:40PM]

Massholes all drive in the left lane so your statement is invalid. I can drive the pike from Worchester to Boston entirely in the right lane and pass every idiot on the highway.

[hewn @ Dec 5th 2006 1:25PM]

Way to vet your stories, as usual. LIDAR (acronym) isn't "theirs" - it's a scattered-light laser system that uses a larger collector rather than a single or twin-beam system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR

A whole family I know/knew - grandparents, kids and grandkids - were killed by a tailgating trucker who took out their SUV. So those who think that blockers are a good idea, or who think that tailgating is not dangerous, need to think about other people and not just their own selfish needs/wants.

[TheWhiteDove @ Dec 5th 2006 1:37PM]

Waaaah, there's a slow car in the left lane... waaaaahhhhh.
Why don't you just slow the eff down and get home 5 minutes later?
Everyone on the highway thinks they are some kind of NASCAR pro. Idiots. If you ever spent time volunteering in an ER, you would lighten up on that lead foot. It's not fun watching maimed and dead people who could be home watching TV if only they weren't driving like morons.

[sandiegocali @ Dec 5th 2006 1:50PM]

Stay the hell out of the left lane if you don't want someone on your ass. You slow ass "volunteer highway patrol" power trippers are the ones causing the hazard. You know that some moron will want to pass you , possibly on the way to the hospital to see their dying family member or just late for work at taco bell. But no. "i'm doing the speed limit" "he can go around" .
Be the bigger person and get the hell out of the way, because you know the person on your ass will eventually get around you, one way or another. You can make it safe, or dangerous.
If you are to scared to drive in the other lanes, then maybe you shouldn't be on the freeway in the first place. The fast lane is not your safe security lane or to be used for cruise control going slow since you know you won't have to brake since your going slower then everyone else.

[eric liao @ Dec 5th 2006 1:57PM]

hey you engadgeteers from nyc would know a lil more about tailgating. just wonder why there aren't an accident on every intersection in the city when every car is tailgating or anyone obeying the lanes?

[master @ Dec 5th 2006 2:03PM]

frb, It is illegal to block a passing lane. That's the statement. Not sure where you can find it in the DMV manual book. I'm not saying people cruising at the max speed limit. What I'm saying here is STUPID people cruising at 50mph in 70mph speed limit in the left lane! This is insane!

[jcontino @ Dec 5th 2006 2:31PM]

Excellent. NO excuse for tailgating. IF you think someone is going to slow, is that a good excuse to endanger their life, your life, people in cars around you?

I agree that left lane slow pokes bug me.. Flash your lights, honk, go around. These will serve the same purpose. If you tail gate me, I'd just as soon you get a hefty fine. If you tailgate me when I have my family in the car, I'd just as soon get out of the car and punch you..okay.. maybe have your licensed suspended. Especially if I AM going the speed limit. This is what irks me! I'm going 60 or 65 in a 55 and some jerk rides my bumper at 10 feet when there is another car in front of me anyway!

The fact that I leave proper following distance between me and the car in front seems to get people angry. What the hell is that... sure, I can scoot up 30 feet..what the hell does that buy anyone!?!?!?

[James @ Dec 5th 2006 2:54PM]

This does a great job of solving the WRONG problem. Get people over in the right lane if they are driving slow.

[sandiegocali @ Dec 5th 2006 3:21PM]

That's because they are not trying to solve a traffic problem, their BUDGET problem is the reason behind this.

[brklynsurfer @ Dec 5th 2006 3:05PM]

I'm not tailgating, I'm drafting. Trying to save the environment here people. Don't be hate'n. =)

[David @ Dec 5th 2006 3:35PM]

I'm shocked at how many people here use "slow people in the fast lane" as an excuse for dangerous tailgating.

I don't see how there's any conflict between discouraging tailgating and discouraging improper use of lanes. I think police should ticket people in both cases.

Anyone who's driven on Germany's autobahn knows how effective highway travel can be, as long as everybody follows the rules.

[hydrogen_wv @ Dec 5th 2006 3:43PM]

Tailgaters suck... I used to tailgate in my first years of driving because I thought I was indestructible. I learned quickly not to though. Tailgating does not solve anything. Even if someone in front of you is going slow, back off to a safe distance and match speed until you can safely pass. Tailgating them will only get you there 2 seconds faster and is really risky.
I agree that slow people in the fast lane are a nuisance. Unless they are passing someone who is going even slower, they should be in the slow lane.. I agree with that, but tailgating will not likely make them speed up or get you past them any faster. I'm sure people hate my driving around here. I drive 2-lane roads mainly, and I drive at a relaxing speed.. To conserve gas and because I enjoy driving.
Driving isn't a game, even though it can be enjoyable. It's dangerous. You are in control of a vehicle that weighs thousands of pounds, and it doesn't take a physics degree to realize that you can't stop a ton of moving mass in 10 feet. What I find even stranger is that the majority of tailgaters seem to be in bigger vehicles. You know, the ones that require 3 times as much distance to stop than 'normal' cars.
Another big issue we have where I am is that people like lifting their vehicles and putting on oversized tires without changing their brake setup. i think A law should be made about that, too...

[walk2k @ Dec 5th 2006 4:49PM]

I agree, they should give tickets to people that illegally jack up their trucks to ridiculous heights. Not only is it dangerous from a handling/stopping standpoint, it's also dangerous and annoying because it puts their headlights right at eye level for people driving a normal size car/truck.

They should also give tickets to people that make their Harleys and other bikes way too loud just to prove how macho they are.

Instead they give tickets to people who are driving safely, in a straight line, with light traffic, alert and not talking on the phone, etc... but what their radar says is going 11mph over the speed limit (and those are only accurate to +/- 7mph).

[brandon @ Dec 5th 2006 4:10PM]

"accurate to the tenth of a second"
...
60MPH = 1 mile per minute = 5280 feet
divided by 600 (60 seconds per minute, times 10 for a 10th of a second)
equals...

"accurate to 8.8 FEET!"

... or about half a car length, depending on the car

[rj @ Dec 5th 2006 4:38PM]

sweet... so next time someone cuts me off... i'll be the one getting the ticket.

[walk2k @ Dec 5th 2006 4:42PM]

It would be nice to think they are going to pull over tailgaters with this gadget.

But they won't be. They will simply be using it to ticket speeders, like they do with every other type of radar/speed detector.

Yes it would be nice if the Highway patrols used their authority to actually make the highways safter, instead of just racking up the speeding tickets to pad their budgets.

It would be nice if they pulled over tailgaters, improper signallers, dangerous lane-changers, passing-lane blockers, and distracted cell-phone talkers/etc.... But you know they won't. There's no money in it.

Last thing I will say, despite what you've heard, speed doesn't cause accidents. DIFFERENCES in speed is what causes accidents. So that guy going 60 when everyone else is doing 75 is just as "dangerous" as the guy going 90mph... I don't tailgate because it's dangerous. Yet I'm constantly being blocked by slower drivers in the fast lane. I don't even drive that fast, maybe 75-80 if traffic is light. These people are actually making it more dangerous by blocking traffic, requiring people to change lanes to pass them, and etc...

[andyo @ Dec 7th 2006 5:49AM]

Is it me or are you invoking Newton here? Well, if differences in speed are what matters, what about the difference in speed between you at 90 MPH and all of the things clamped to this earth, at 90 MPH relative to you? Going faster IS more dangerous, unless you can somehow make the whole ground around you move in the same direction as you are.

[Michael McGuire @ Dec 5th 2006 8:30PM]

Why is everyone arguing over traffic laws on a global blog? frb is absolutely right... about Arizona law. There is no such thing as a "passing lane" or "fast lane" in AZ State law. The only time you would have a passing lane is if there is an explicit sign ("Stay right unless to pass"). Inside the Phoenix metropolitan area you will not find any of these signs.

[master @ Dec 6th 2006 1:27PM]

Michael, there's a law or not, it is still not RIGHT to drive slow in the left lane. It is logical.