Zephyr's HDMI port and new HANA scaler: up close and personal
By Darren Murph 
posted January 6th 2007 12:02PM
posted January 6th 2007 12:02PM
Alright, so you've had due time to squabble over Microsoft's reasoning for apparently readying an Xbox 360 v2 -- supposedly prepared with a 65-nanometer CPU, 120GB hard drive, and an 1080p-pumpin' HDMI port -- and now XboxScene has dug up photos of what appears to be a prototype board sporting the coveted new HDMI port as well as a new "HANA" scaler. The materials on the PCB certainly seem to match up with what we saw yesterday, and moreover, the direct comparison shot between the current model's (presumably analog only) "ANA" scaler and the forthcoming version's "HANA" model adds a bit more consistency to the whole story. Indeed, if the current machine's scaler can't even output digital 1080p signals, it certainly helps to explain the missing HDMI cable that one would've thought went hand-in-hand with all this HD DVD hoopla Microsoft has got itself into. So be sure and hit the read link for a few more high-res shots, and click on through for the YouTube proof -- oh yes, there's a video.[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
There is a video on channel9 of a Xbox developer running the 360 in 1080p. He says the "Fall flash update" will enable this new feature.
http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=261254
Not to sound like a huge nerd but what song(mix) is playing it the background?
thanks.....
I don't want to be the killjoy here, but I'm on board with those who think this is nothing more than a clever modder trying to stir up rumor and speculation.
If you think about Microsoft, would it be more financially beneficial for them to completely re-work the 360 right now? The HDMI, and 120GB hard drive are things that could, and most likely will be sold as add-ons. Why would they put these in a "new" 360, and charge the same price, when they could make so much money by selling them as upgrade accessories from all exisiting 360 owners?
If Microsoft can make $40 for selling an all-new HDMI output cable, and another $100 or so for the 120GB hard drive, why wouldn't they just do that? Microsoft has gotten really smart about accessories this time around. They saw how SONY pulled in a lot of money with Cameras and Hard Drives, etc. and now they're playing that game too.
As for the new processor... I think that could be the most likely part of this entire rumor. That's not a lot different than how they've changed DVD drives, or other internal components to help the 360 perform better, and it's also not an upgrade that's going to piss off every existing owner either.
Do you honestly think that MS would let someone bring a secret project home? Especially a member of the press? Yeas, and with the new chips, anyone heard of a little program called photoshop? It lets you do a little thing called erase and type text :)
@Spike
They kept the look of the 360 secret...
A little reminder for the folks rewriting PS2 history.
The original PS2 arrived with the space for the hard disk and mounting for a network adapter on the back from day one. It took quite a while for the adapter to arrive, but arrive it did. Sony did not release a PS2 with ethernet built in until the slim line PS2 arrived which was over four years into the life cycle of the PS2. Motherboard revisions of the original PS2 were centered around thwarting modders and/or reducing build cost for Sony. They didn't add features.
Prior to the slimline, Sony released a PS2 revision that lost firewire and was bundled with that HD interface/network adapter. This was in 2003.
Have you all forgotten this?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/08/hdmi-port-coming-to-the-xbox-360/
Nice find spaceman. The comments in that thread are telling.
What the fuck are you people bitching about??? you don't get mad at Nissan because you bought the 2006 Altima and they redesigned it in 2007 (new styling, bigger alloy wheels, more security features, etc.). You wanted the best in 2006 and you got the best in 2006.
Who knew that amateur modders had the capabilities to completely re-design a chip they never had the schematics to, nor have the tools and resources available to them to create them.
There is no other explanation, a modder doesn't have the knowledge nor expertise to design a new processing chip (I am not talking about the CPU), and make those tiny solder connections. They do not have the original schematic for the chip - to know how it functioned, and they cannot reverse engineer it without millions of dollars of R&D (research and development).
Ross, and anyone else who still thinks it's just a mod... please, leave this discussion. You're wrong.
Hey Kyle,
What you on about? I already sold my existing 360 to pay for the new one.....
i thought the WHOLE idea of a console was buy it and keep it for 5 years...people are like "oh i prefer consoles you dont need to upgrade them...yet if i want 1080p and a larger hdd now i do......when they released it 20gb...wow....13gb actually available? wow....360 should have been this at launch...they rushed it out...it turns out to be the most unreliable electronic device i have ever had...they release the hd dvd add on later......they charge for online play....seriously ps3 looks damn good value for money..all 360 is is an xbox 1, white casing...wireless controllers...infrared built in...double the hdd space...better graphics (if it does not freeze)...even less reliable.....er...has a media guide button that is slow as hell...and an online service still over run with cheats..and talking of xbl, someone explain what the point in paying for it is if you can get the same game on pc with normally 2x the players and 1/2 the price....wow....don't think i am ever getting another xbox again MS lol..(also since they charge what £80 for a 20gb hdd lool (especially when u can get a 40gb laptop one for 1/4 the price...haaa who knows what the 120gb will cost...
Gah. For everyone who says that this is a mod you have successfully dropped the overall IQ of the patrons of Engadget by 10 points. Congrats. OK so he not only fabed the plastic on the outside of the case. He hacked the firmware to support this. He did probably one of the best soldering jobs ever to grace a moders hand and he fabed a new scaler chip. Yah this is SOOO fake.
See people this is why parents need to be involved in their children's surfing habits. All the brain dead children who ain't got fuck 1 of a clue show up at Engadget and make the most lame ass remarks in the history of the internet. If it wasn't so infuriating it would be amusing. Parents please put your children to bed and get them the hell off Engadget.
Well do we actualy know taht the 360 featured on the video is actualy running that pcb? and do we know that the user has re-wired internaly the AV connector to out put the signals on the correct pins on a HDMI port. I may have had more chance of beliving this if the video showed the 360 actualy using a HDMI cable and not a DVI adapter.
It's not a trick. It's happening. It's real. They had to rework the board anyway for the new processors--so they added an HDMI out. And you know what? You whiners are right--this makes your current 360s completely useless. You might as well throw them in the trash. They're worthless now. You're not overreacting at all. How DARE Microsoft improve their product! They owe you all $400.
Yeah! How dare microsoft put out a better Xbox360... For that matter, how dare intel put out a faster processor, I mean shouldn't everyone just be happy with the pentium one and never upgrade, and shouldn't dvd burner's always stay at 1x burning and never get any faster. And sony shouldn't release a new PSP either, nor should nintendo have put out a newer, smaller, brighter version of the DS.
Wait a minute, maybe, just maybe, technology gets better, faster, brighter over time, and it just makes sense that a company would respond to consumer demand by releasing newer and better versions of it's products. Oh nevermind, that's just crazy talk.
Essentially, I was replying to this post you made:
"Who is to say what the hell is coming out of that xbox. its bollocks and of course is modable. yank overweight brain dead tosser who probably has never seen a female in real life.
no way microsoft would let this get out"
Oh dear.
If you are American, I can understand your complete lack grasping the concept of sarcasm,
If not...you should be ashamed responding to me
Thanks for polluting the thread with opinions you don't endorse. I guess my feeble American mind cannot possibly grasp the concept of sarcasm, when I was taking everyones opinion seriously.
My interpretation of sarcasm is not what is to blame here, it is your complete inability to make humor of this situation, and merely write it off as sarcasm.
I wasn't responding to the insults, as much as the underlying opinion.
So please, fuck off.
Fuck off?
Oh my, you are hard. Sorry sir, won't happen again
I think everyone who is angry about the new mod of the 360 need to understand basically it is to either add new life to the already old 360 hint the HDMI and the bigger PS3 harddrive. It makes sense to try and compete with the PS3 is by having better features. Don't be angry at Microsoft, they are what they are. Don't think you are getting cheated they don't care about you the current owners of the 360. This is all buisness, just for money.
Long Live the New King! Huray!
There will not be a built in HD DVD drive EVER, unless they lied to Ben over at ars.technica.
That being said, geez, how much is it gonna cost me to trade in the 360 I got in November? :(
People people people people! Have you never heard of viral marketing? Have you never heard of of the Microsoft tactic to announce features to stop people buying competitor's products? The main selling point of a PS3 over a x360 is the HDMI and 1080p. Microsoft announces this - gets people to wait instead of getting a PS3. It's genius. I don't think they are in danger of endangering themselves due to the Osbourne affect because this will be offered as a premium product for more money, but I'm hoping it'll eventually become standard on all models for the same price points as before.
Here it is same.
Not understand meaning of revision and add new feature.
As someone kindly explained about PS2 revision. That is revision to cost nothing to consumer.
Talking about slim PS2? It has lower price then original one.
Any complain? Why? Sony takeout no usage harddrive port to give you network port(equally useless) and less price.
And Sony cut cost to manufacture.
If MS sell this so called revision as premium name tag. That is the problem.
If MS sell this new feature with other stuff as different package name then there is no problem at all.
Why? Now consumer has choice.
Yes. Technology change in time.
Everyone understand price will goes down by time.
I'm on board with everyone who says "quit bitching". You (or your parents) purchased an Xbox 360 sans HDMI port and 120gb hard drive. You knew what you were buying when you bought it. I bought mine a week ago sans HDMI port and 120gb hard drive, and I've been extremely happy with my purchase, as well as the 1080p output via VGA...er.....what's that? 1080p? The Xbox 360 already outputs at 1080p via VGA. I understand some TV's don't have VGA inputs, let alone display 1080p on anything other than HDMI. 1080p isn't the big update, just the "superior" HDMI output is.
The box already outputs at 1080i via component, and has digital audio output. Besides some bored smug videophiles like myself, I doubt anyone here could pick out the differences between 1080i and 1080p. They appear nearly identical on my Sony, and both resolutions look absolutely beautiful.
first of all using ANY connection other than HDMI will give you compressed video, and NO audio. HDMI gives you FULL UNCOMPRESSED DATA, you know what that means, the BEST possible audio and video signal possible. so no matter what your getting a better signal with HDMI. not to mention running progressive instead of interlaced is a better picture (1080i vs 1080p), and running 720p is ARGUABLY better than 1080i(pros and cons there guys). and as for the last post, you said "nearly identical" which means there is a difference. Telling a gamer 1080p isnt a big deal is like telling a skydiver their parachute is optional. come on guys know what your talking about before you give your uninformed opinions.
If you use the Optical Audio port on any Xbox 360 cable, you will get the same audio you would get from the HDMI port. Don't be silly. ALL audio is compressed in a computer, there are just differences to the level of compression. We can't possibly store so many sounds sampled to perfection.
Technically there's a difference between digital and compressed audio/video, but have you compared the two in person? I said there is a difference, but it's impossible to notice while gaming. I'm going to assume there are slight differences when watching HD-DVD content, nothing to cry about. The optical digital audio output is extremely adequate.
In no way, shape, or form is 720p better than 1080i. You're talking about a very large difference in pixels, and you're obviously ignorant on the subject. The advantage to 1080i and 1080p is resolution. You'd be hard pressed to notice a quality change in progressive scan mode. I'm only to assume you haven't compared the two side by side. I really think this is a case where an industry (in this case film) has hyped up a technology so much a lot of people jump on a "oh crap, here comes the next huge thing" bandwagon without understanding that they're being duped.
Is HDMI better? Sure. Will you notice a difference between an HDMI cable and VGA cable putting out 1080p? Maybe, side by side, with a very high quality source. Is it worth bitching about? No.
Ricardo, that is not correct.
The S/PDIF interface is limited to 1.5Mbits/second. Dolby+ is around 1-3Mbits and Dolby TrueHD can go all the way up to 18Mbits/second. There is no way to output those signals via S/PDIF, that is the reason we want audio via HDMI. Also the standalone Toshiba player can decode Dolby+, TrueHD and DTS-HD and output it as 8 channel LPCM signal, which solves the problems of no current AV receiver being able to decode those formats.. yet! I sure hope that Zyphyr will be able to do that :)
"In no way, shape, or form is 720p better than 1080i. You're talking about a very large difference in pixels, and you're obviously ignorant on the subject."
While I completely agree with the main point of your post, try not to be such as asshole when you're not 100% sure you're correct. Keep in mind that 1080i only delivers 540 lines on each redraw of the screen. So typically, 720p is considered to be slightly smoother for high motion video (even though for a particular frame you have more lines of resolution in a 1080i image).
In addition, there are some issues that arise with interlaced video being displayed on an LCD or plasma (which are inherently progressive monitors since they don't use an electron beam to 'paint' the screen). See wikipedia (720p article):
"While 720p presents a complete 720 line frame to the viewer between 24 to 60 times each second (depending on the format), 1080i presents the picture as 50 or 60 partial 540 line "fields" (24 complete 1080-line fields, or "24p" is included in the ATSC standard though) which the human eye or a deinterlacer built into the display device must visually and temporally combine to build a 1080 line picture - in CRT type display. To get all 1080 interlaced lines to appear on the screen at the same time on a progressive high-definition display, the processor within the HD set has to weave together both 540-line segments to form the full-resolution frame. It does so by holding the first field in its memory, receiving the next field, then electronically knitting the two fields together. The combined fields are displayed at once as a complete 1080p frame. The main tradeoff between the two is that 1080i may show more detail than 720p for a stationary shot of a subject at the expense of a lower effective refresh rate and the introduction of interlace artifacts during motion."
Of course, 1080p is a whole other beast, since it's actually twice the pixels being delivered per re-draw (compared to 1080i). And, as I mentioned, I agree with you that very few people would be able to tell the difference between the formats unless they had two sets next to each other.
"What is wrong with you people? Hardware revisions are nothing new? Yeah they've been done, late in a few console's life cycles, but it's certainly not common, and definitely not 1 year in.
Those 1.0 - 1.6 revisions you mentioned for the original Xbox, remind me, what were the major hardware changes they made in those?"
Nintendo DS was released in November 04; DS Lite released March 06, 15 months later.
Xbox 360 v1 was released November 05. This revision hasn't even been announced yet, and won't be released until summertime at the earliest, 18 months after the release of the 360.
What major hardware changes are you referring to, the additional HDMI port that hasn't been announced? The new 65nm CPU which will offer no speed increases but is expected to reduce heat which ought to make it cheaper for MS to manufacture & make the 360s more reliable? The upgradeable 120 gb HD they could announce tomorrow or last year or at any time independent of any hardware revision?
There's no need to rend your clothing over this rumored hardware revision that has no release date.
Infact HDMI is not a good thing, HDMI means that signal now travels in digital which means copyprotection can be integrated. Also digital signals are never used in HiDef projections, you know why? - Digital signals are square waves, Analog are sine waves. When digital is sent over a long cable [for example from 360 in front to projector at the back, around 5 meters], there will be some interfearence. Interfearence to a digital signal makes the data corrupted and the machine can no longer make sense of the signal. Whereas analog is sent in sine wave and not encrypted in anyway, so even at long distances, since its not encrypted - nothing has to be decrypted. Even the interfearence can be filtered out by the machine.
Thats why you see Coxial Analog yPrPb cables instead of "Audio+Video Digital" cables in people homes who own HiDef projectors, especially at long distances.
Will M$ have some kind of trade in program for the original 360 ? I mean how many people had to send back there 360's cause they got the ring of death ? So how about upgrading for a price ? I'd be happy to upgrade to the 2.0 version for say an additional $100 - $150 for an HDMI port and either an HD-DVD or 120 GB HD. I just hope they don't let the first adaptors and 360 Loyalists in the cold and have to buy an additional 360 in order to upgrade to TRUE HD capabilities.
now is this a new microsoft system or is this a newer version of the 360? like this isnt the next gen microsoft system is it?
because it looks exactly the same?
"There is a video on channel9 of a Xbox developer running the 360 in 1080p. He says the "Fall flash update" will enable this new feature."
That article was from November, and the "Fall Update" already happened as well... Further the 360 does 1080p using VGA or Component out, you DONT NEED HDMI for 1080p, period. I already use 1080p with VGA, and it works fine, as well as scaling non 1080p content up to 1080p (And it does look a bit better, however, most improvments from 1080p wont be realized without a larger screen)