TDK's Durabis 2 coating protects 200GB Blu-ray discs

One of the consumer worries of Blu-ray Disc vs. HD DVD is the durability of that ultra-thin, 0.1-mm layer protecting your BD-stored data. HD DVDs on the other hand, use a comparatively thick 0.6-mm surface layer just like standard DVDs making them appear -- on paper anyway -- more rugged over the stretch, right? Not necessarily so. At least not when TDK or others apply protective coatings to their optical media. The 6-layer, single-sided 200GB BD disc on the right in the image above is coated with TDK's "Durabis 2" hard-coating technology -- the disk on the left is a standard DVD; both were subjected to equal treatment by the steel-wool and a Sharpie. Any questions?

[Thanks, Dave]

[Billy Gun @ Jan 19th 2007 9:00AM]

Very Nice... but here are my questions:
- Can you use "Durabis 2" on a DVD and/or on a HD DVD?
- This "Durabis" have a cheap cost?
- Can I put "Durabis 2" on my can painting?

But how can't a steel-wool presure a 0.1-mm layer protection? I just can't belive that this work ass well.

[Dave @ Jan 19th 2007 9:41AM]

TDK does not support the hddvd format so i think no, hddvd will not have protection.

[Matt @ Jan 19th 2007 9:11AM]

...How does this show anything? While I can see the disc on the left is scratched, the fact that I can't see any surface detail on the disc on the right means I really have no idea how it stood up to the treatment...

[Phil Perman @ Jan 19th 2007 9:31AM]

Thats because there isn't any surface detail, its just a plain unscratched disk. The only bits that show up on the DVD are the scratches, the parts that they haven't attacked are plain black. The lack of any marks on the BR disk proves that it stood up to the testing

[stretchsje @ Jan 19th 2007 9:13AM]

If this is cost-effective, why is it not in use already? DVD's aren't exactly durable, as any Netflix customer can testify to.

I suspect Blu-Ray backers would rather the discs be fragile so that customers will occasionally have to replace their discs. That generates more sales.

[Michael @ Jan 19th 2007 10:19AM]

Have you ever used a Blu-ray disk? All blu-ray disks use TDK's Durabis technology. I haven't taken steel wool to a disk, but I've done minor tests with disks and they look brand new after I clean them up.

[Smeagol @ Jan 19th 2007 9:22AM]

This is for the PC market, it has to be incredibly robust for people to have conifdence in putting 200gb on a SINGLE disc... compared to 1/20th that amount on DVD.

[Scooter @ Jan 19th 2007 9:34AM]

This will never be widely used. The movie studios have no interest in spending more money so they can earn less money. Degrading discs is a cash cow, they had plenty of opportunity to make stronger cds and dvds, but 'since it's the consumers own fault for scratching their discs' they didn't do it.

Kapiche?

[Ray-- @ Jan 19th 2007 9:54AM]

so they coated the disk with a black finish so the sharpie wouldnt show up? you can't see anything with that dull black on the left... it could have sharpie all over it and you couldnt see it... but i guess as long as it plays who cares?

[Mo @ Jan 19th 2007 10:00AM]

I would like to see them switch the places of the discs. The lighting is obviously focused over the DVD. The BD is completely devoid of any light defraction. There is a huge amount of defraction shown on the DVD, which leads me to believe that the light is coming in from an angle that is beneficial to the BD and detrimental to the DVD.

I'm not saying this story is completely wrong, I just want to see the comparison when the discs' places are swapped and see how much the argument still holds up.

[Andir3.0 @ Jan 19th 2007 10:17AM]

Mo: It's not the light. Blu-Ray discs are almost mirror-like with little to no refraction. If you hold up a DVD and a Blu-Ray disc, you can clearly tell the difference. The reason being that the Blu-Ray disc has data more compactly written on the disc and less light refraction occurs as it does on the DVD. If you don't have a Blu-Ray disc to compare with a DVD, compare a CD to a DVD and you can see that the DVD is clearly less "rainbowish". The lighting is right.

[John @ Jan 19th 2007 1:45PM]

Just for you, I did some Photoshopping of the pic. See for yourself which media is more likely to work.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4825/img3659bigsy6.jpg

[chez @ Jan 19th 2007 10:19AM]

I don't understand why someone would do this to a perfectly ok disc?

[Caleb @ Jan 19th 2007 10:21AM]

Why didn't they do this test with HD DVD and blu ray?

[evoi @ Jan 19th 2007 12:42PM]

What's the point? "HD DVDs on the other hand, use a comparatively thick 0.6-mm surface layer just like standard DVDs making them appear...." The standard DVD and HD-DVD are exactly alike in production....

[Mike Cerm @ Jan 19th 2007 10:24AM]

Fancy finishes like this are part of the reason that Blu-Ray is so much more expensive than HD-DVD. I'm sure that you could just make the bottom of the Blu-Ray disc out of diamonds, so why not just do that and make a 500 GB disc?

For the price of this disc, I'm confident that you could just buy a 200 GB hard drive.

[evoi @ Jan 19th 2007 12:42PM]

So much more? It cost more to produce, but that cost isn't really trickling down to the consumers. The average price of the Blu-Ray discs and HD-dvd discs are nearly the same for the consumers.

[Andir3.0 @ Jan 19th 2007 10:51AM]

Really? Blu-Ray more expensive?

http://www.bestbuy.com/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat87100050019&type=category
http://www.bestbuy.com/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat87100050018&type=category

16 Blocks (Blu-Ray $29.99 - HD DVD $34.99)
Corpse Bride (both $24.99)
All Discovery Atlas (both $22.99)

I'll let you do the rest of the looking...

[Galley @ Jan 19th 2007 10:45AM]

Don't all Blu-ray disc come with Durabis coating?

[hemmy @ Jan 19th 2007 11:10AM]

TDK had Durabis for DVDs as well. The Blu-ray discs use an improved version called Durabis-2. Not all Blu-ray discs use Durabis however, but they do indeed *ALL* use a special durable composite protective coating, making them all at least 100 times more durable and scratch resistant than a normal DVD. Durabis is just TDK's brand. Sony uses AccuCore(ScratchGuard), and it works like Durabis. Other companies will use different composite formulations.

This protective coating is a *requirement* for *all* Blu-ray discs. The layers are so close to the surface, the discs would fail without a strong durable coat if you so much as sneezed in the direction of a disc.

It's amazing to see people even doubt this, or immediately put on a tin foil hat and start making odd claims. This has been public knowledge for ages now, the Blu-ray Association and the various manufacturers have had press releases about this.

[Castle @ Jan 19th 2007 11:11AM]

>>- Can you use "Durabis 2" on a DVD and/or on a HD DVD?
>>- This "Durabis" have a cheap cost?


Durabis is already standard requirement on all Blu-ray disks.

One of the reason Blu-ray over HD-DVD gets criticized is due to the higher costs per disk, one of the main increases in costs is due to this protective layer (the other is retooling for thinner layers). HD-DVD prides itself on lower cost to manufacturer the disks; however that is due to the fact it doesn't have features like Durablis. Durablis can be applied, but it most likely will not.

>>- Can I put "Durabis 2" on my can painting?

No, it requires and even surface and cannot be applied by painting

[Castle @ Jan 19th 2007 11:14AM]

>>Really? Blu-Ray more expensive?

Blu-ray costs more to manufacture, but most of those costs are absorbed by the manufacturer and studio; NOT the consumer.

From the consumer's perspective, having Durablis is especially useful for long-term preservation of the disk, especially is the Studio is going to flip the bill for the addition.

[Mike @ Jan 19th 2007 11:15AM]

I'm just wondering why the porn industry isn't supporting BD instead of HD-DVD. I mean, all the "biological materials" that are in the scratches of the current DVD collections at porn stores. I think the CDC should have a say in which one is better.

[Andir3.0 @ Jan 19th 2007 11:16AM]

It's not the "porn industry". If I remember right, it was one company in that "report".

[wtf @ Jan 19th 2007 12:21PM]

The indication is that Sony will pull the licenses for any Blu-ray reproduction house if they start burning(for lack of a better term) porn, not that the porn industry doesn't want to use Blu-ray.

[Mike @ Jan 19th 2007 2:22PM]

Because Bluray doesn't have HDi. Thats the answer plain and simple. Picture in picture, interactivity, overlays and all teh fancy sheit pr0n wants/needs is only available in HD-DVD. Bluray may have the capacity advantage (which is not really there anymore), but other then that it offers less in every way.

Go look at movies on both platforms. You'll notice the HDDVD has way more "stuff" on it.

[tekdroid @ Jan 19th 2007 11:16AM]

200GB disc is nice. Reliability is unknown. DRM, unknown. But a good step for the boys in the labs, at least.

Storage is moving so fast. If they just make something like this as a rewritable, reliable optical format for the PC - with no DRM (or ability to play Hollywood-approved CE movie formats) - I'd be all over it.

Of course, Durabis or not, nothing is better than the cartridge Blu-Ray was originally intended to come with. It would have stopped fingerprints and a heap of foreign matter from reaching the recording surface, which would have prevented recording inconsistencies from all sorts of stuff that gets on there.

That said, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray (in their current forms) will barely make an impact on the movie market.

[Jason @ Jan 19th 2007 11:58AM]

No, all Blu-Ray discs do NOT come with TDK Durabis technology as it is not part of the Blu-Ray spec. Pretty much any coating can be used when the discs are manufactured, Durabis is just the best available.And seeing as it adds a lot to the cost of a disc, Studio movies released on BR do not use this level of protection.

And as for the implication that HD-DVD is somehow more expensive than BR;

1. Most BR discs do not have the better coatings, they have cheaper "spin coats" put on them which are not nearly as durable as Durabis, which DOES cost more.

2. Go to www.thedvdwars.com and see that the average price across the board is lower on HD-DVD than it is on BR.

[disc_zombie @ Jan 19th 2007 12:02PM]

Blu-ray discs didn't always have this protective coating. Remember, the original Blu-ray discs (the recordable type) were in cartridges like a large Minidisc or UMD . . .

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/disczombie/sony-blue-ray-disks.jpg

[Keith @ Jan 19th 2007 12:43PM]

This was debunked. I love how easily everyone believed one "report" that interviewed one person, but doesn't bother reading the follow-up news saying it was a load of crap.

[isaac @ Jan 19th 2007 12:59PM]

I'll believe it when they can make a cell phone screen that doesn't scratch in my pocket.


Isaac
http://www.monomachines.com

[Isaac @ Jan 19th 2007 1:27PM]

I won't believe it until they can make a cell phone screen that does not scratch in my pocket.


John
http://www.monomachines.com

[Mo @ Jan 19th 2007 2:31PM]

Thanks for the PhotoShopping, John. To clarify my original comment, I wasn't saying that I didn't believe that the BD scratched less, I was just interested to see it in similar light as the DVD in that picture, if it was a lighting source issue.

Your PhotoShopping shows some scratching, which is really what I wanted to see: How much damage the tests actually did to the disc.

[RTFM @ Jan 19th 2007 3:28PM]

I don't have a stake in either format yet and yet I wonder some people seem to want to push HD-DVD?

Storage capacity is the reason we are having this change in format to begin with. Why are some pushing the smaller step?

Make a smaller step now and you will just need to make another step sooner.

Guess its just that crazy logic stuffs that gets people messed up....

[hemmy @ Jan 19th 2007 3:40PM]

Blu-ray movies have coatings that are as good as Durabis-2 (100x the durability and scratch resistance of normal DVDs: this is what *all* the disc manufacturers are aiming for with their own protective formulations, that includes Sony with their ScratchGuard protective coating)


"Because Bluray doesn't have HDi. Thats the answer plain and simple. Picture in picture, interactivity, overlays and all teh fancy sheit pr0n wants/needs is only available in HD-DVD. Bluray may have the capacity advantage (which is not really there anymore), but other then that it offers less in every way."

I guess The Descent on Blu-ray with its interactive menus and picture-in-picture and all the "fancy sheit" it has is a figment of our imagination.

[Matt @ Jan 19th 2007 3:47PM]

Is this the same coating Sony supposedly put on the PSP screen? ROFL, too many lies

[Robo @ Jan 19th 2007 4:32PM]

stretchsje, the manufacturers want the discs to last 'cos if Blu-Ray is to become a common recordable media, people need their discs to last.

With the competition between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, you don't win by deliberately creating a crappy product.

Also, according the the site below Durabis is already in use for DVD:

http://www.durabis.com/en/con00100.htm

[Biff_Meister @ Jan 19th 2007 10:52PM]

Can I get this for the paint job on my car?

[Mark @ Jan 19th 2007 11:49PM]

200GB on a disc? Damn, where do I sign up? :-)

[Fernando Cucchietti @ Jan 20th 2007 3:17PM]

Now, if only they used this stuff to protect iPods...

[Greg @ Jan 21st 2007 10:43PM]

I think i am, but did was I the only to think the name Durabis comes from the words durability hubris?