Clean install workaround for Vista upgrade discovered

Well, it looks like those hoping to do a clean install of Windows Vista with an upgrade-only edition of the OS may not be entirely out of luck after all, although they'll still have to jump through a few hoops to get it done. According to Daily Tech, you can get around that pesky requirement to have Windows XP or Windows 2000 already installed on your PC by instead using the upgrade DVD to first install a 30-day trial version of Vista --that's done simply by not entering the product key when prompted to do so during the installation. Once you've got the trial version of Vista up and running, you simply start the installation process all over again from within Vista, this time entering the product key when prompted. After that's done, you should be staring at cleanly-installed, fully-functioning version of Vista, not once having set foot in Windows XP or 2000. As Daily Tech points out, this seems to suggest that any Vista upgrade DVD can function as a full retail copy of Vista, although it would also seem to be something that Microsoft could put the kibosh on pretty quickly, so you may not want to lose sight of that copy of your old OS just yet.

[Jonathan Keim @ Jan 31st 2007 4:54PM]

Wow, this flaw is almost too easy. I would hate to know who gets the phone call from Balmer :D

[Steve D. @ Jan 31st 2007 5:01PM]

Actually, funny thing is I thought about it before, because I remember you don't have to put in the product key during installation so... if you can do a flash installation and after that, put in the key, won't it be just fine? Hmm sounds like totally possible, glad someone found that out for us.

I'm going to give it a try I guess.

[Chris @ Jan 31st 2007 5:18PM]

does it only ask for the vista key or the 2k/xp key as well?

[Todd Long @ Jan 31st 2007 6:04PM]

Only requires the Vista Upgrade key =)

[Zorque @ Jan 31st 2007 5:20PM]

*waits for morons complaining that Engadget promotes piracy*

[Ayle @ Jan 31st 2007 7:35PM]

They wont come its not really piracy since you still have to buy the license so......

[Shear @ Jan 31st 2007 5:39PM]

Arhhh, nice hack/tip...Going to try that out now...after my installion of Halo is done!

oh wait, let me cancel that, it won't work with vista :@

lol

Trying it now!

[woody @ Jan 31st 2007 6:09PM]

Three cheers for my favorite phrase: "it's their own damn fault"!

[Pedro @ Jan 31st 2007 8:12PM]

FYI, I've had Halo running on two Vista machines... runs just fine.

[AndrewNeo @ Jan 31st 2007 6:29PM]

FYI, -ALL- Vista DVDs are the same, it determines the install path (clean, upgrade) and version (Home Basic, Premium, Ultimate, etc.) from the CD key.

[Alexander @ Jan 31st 2007 6:30PM]

This was possible the whole time. There is no differance betwen the Ultimate edition DVD and the [whatever] version DVD. The only diff is the key that you use when you do get around to activating it.

This was to save on dvd pressing costs, as well as to make more money (sell an 'upgrade' key, later when the user realizes he wants to actually play DVD's) for Microshaft.

[ScOObyDoo @ Jan 31st 2007 6:34PM]

Installed it like this today. Perfect way to do a clean install. I pity the fool that drops >$200 more for the full retail version.

[solomon @ Jan 31st 2007 7:02PM]

I don't get it. In what is this not stealing?

[Dave @ Jan 31st 2007 7:03PM]

Now.. if Microsoft is SMART ( I know they arent but there's always hope!), they WON'T patch this and sell a ton more copies than they would have normally. Thats one of the reasons the original xbox sold so well... because you could hack the crap out of it. When will big companies realize that the more open their product is, the more people will flock to it?????

[kaisia @ Jan 31st 2007 8:40PM]

-cough- iPod -cough-

[apple boi @ Feb 2nd 2007 10:03PM]

that was not microsoft intention to have a open xbox as they would try to stop people from modding there xbox with xbox live where if they found a change in the bios of your xbox they would ban you. you might think then, just dont use xbox live but if what you say is true playstation and gamecube all had the same marketing plan, as they are also modded. Microsoft is the most closed source company out there. as they touted xbox 360 hack/mod proofeness just begging for hackers to show microsoft up.

[Se7en @ Jan 31st 2007 7:06PM]

I'm curious-both this and several other articles have mentioned MS will probably "fix this hole" quickly...I'm not sure how they would at this point. They are pressing/shipping tons of copies of Vista, in lots of initial SKUs. What are the chances of them revising any of the v1.0 disks at this point? And as far as an online fix goes...it sounds like this can happen completely offline, and once you are re-installed, there is no way for MS to know how you installed it?

[woody @ Jan 31st 2007 7:41PM]

Solomon,

It's basically the electronic equivalent of a cashier giving you back more change than you gave for a purchase. Some people will be honest and point out the mistake. Others will simply keep their mouths shut.

And in terms of it being illegal, by definition, the DVD is being used as it was intended: you put it in, load it up, punch in your (purchased) code, and it works. If people were posting a wildcard code that unlocked it, that would be illegal. Using what you rightfully purchased, not so much.

[fdg008 @ Jan 31st 2007 8:29PM]

I might be wrong here, but this is also the way Windows XP upgrade DVD works too... Most "Upgrades" are just swapping the existing app out and shoving the new one in... An OS is just a REALLY big app... As far as piracy goes, well, given that 4 out of 5 installs are pirated, with this approach, at least MSFT got the upgrade revenue...

[tchiseen @ Jan 31st 2007 8:00PM]

if you went to the car store and bought a car, and you only paid for the basic options, but they sold you a car with all the bells, what would you do? never ever use the sat nav cause you didnt pay the excess ridiculous fee for it? some people might think that paying for an upgrade (which costs too much as it is) and getting the full ultimate version given to you doesn't leave the door open for you to do whatever you want with it. AT LEAST if you go and actually buy this dvd, when you go to put your second copy on another machine you own (which btw is illegal and im assuming lots of people will be doing) you can stick ultimate on it for good measure.

[mb @ Feb 1st 2007 3:54AM]

While probably valid, computer::car analogies are getting very tired.

For starters, no one can actually own a copy of Windows like one can own a car.

[Wild Homes @ Jan 31st 2007 8:15PM]

I guess Microsoft could definitely check to see, when it runs the authentication checks (the update-style Genuine Windows thing), if any of the old XP file structure is still there. I'm sure some of it would remain for archiving purposes. if they figure out you had an upgrade key but didn't install on top of XP they could then treat your computer as running a stolen piece of software. I'm sure they've got something written in the EULA to deal with this kind of end-around.

[TyPe @ Jan 31st 2007 8:30PM]

What PC user doesn't already have XP installed? Not many I'd guess.

[Dave @ Jan 31st 2007 9:02PM]

-cough-not the same thing-COUGH!!!!-

[Dracon @ Jan 31st 2007 10:20PM]

Coincidently enough

I bought upgrade academic edition of Vista here in australia yesterday, put it in, and it gave me the option for a clean isntall right off the boot, so win win.

[duffyb @ Jan 31st 2007 10:31PM]

Get rid of your PC crap and get a Mac. Vista is a rip off of what OS/X has had for 5 years, now.

[Computer General Fanboy @ Jun 15th 2007 2:12PM]

You actually can run Windows XP, Vista, Ubuntu, AND MAC OS X on a pc now. just google it if you need to learn more. it's really really cool to see MAC OS X on a Pc booting up...aaaaah the sweetness.

[Dorsey Coe @ Jan 31st 2007 10:52PM]

The upgrade "hole" isn't the only concern. I just read this over at rojo and I'm asking myself (and you all) a couple of questions. First, here is what I read; "Webroot Software, one of the plethora of security companies that helps protect Windows users from attacks, said that buyers should be aware of the potential holes in Vista. "We want to make sure that users understand the system's limitations," said Gerhard Eschelbeck, a spokesman for Webroot, "and caution them that Microsoft's anti-virus programs may not fully protect them."
In testing, the company said, the new Windows Defender program failed to block 84% of viruses - including 15 of the most common pieces of malicious code."
Question #1. Why would I buy this, upgrade or not?
Question #2. Why is Vista made in such a way that I'm not protected from 15 of the most COMMON pieces of malicious code "right out of the box"?
Question #3. What HAVE they been doing for the last five years?
Question #4. Why would I buy this?
Question #5. Why would I buy this?
Question #6. Why would I buy this?
Question #7. Why would I buy this?

[ScottMcLellan @ Jan 31st 2007 11:35PM]

what #3 said....

[Nick @ Feb 1st 2007 3:32AM]

I was able to perform a clean install of Vista Business from an upgrade DVD without any problems at all by installing it onto a second empty partition on my hard drive. I wouldn't be surprised if it was also possible onto a second hard drive in a system. Now I get a standard dual-boot menu when the system starts up enabling me to start up either in XP ("previous version of Windows") or in Vista.

[Michael @ Feb 1st 2007 4:01AM]

"Dorsey Coe @ Jan 31st 2007 10:52PM
The upgrade "hole" isn't the only concern. I just read this over at rojo and I'm asking myself (and you all) a couple of questions. First, here is what I read; "Webroot Software, one of the plethora of security companies that helps protect Windows users from attacks, said that buyers should be aware of the potential holes in Vista. "We want to make sure that users understand the system's limitations," said Gerhard Eschelbeck, a spokesman for Webroot, "and caution them that Microsoft's anti-virus programs may not fully protect them."
In testing, the company said, the new Windows Defender program failed to block 84% of viruses - including 15 of the most common pieces of malicious code."
Question #1. Why would I buy this, upgrade or not?
Question #2. Why is Vista made in such a way that I'm not protected from 15 of the most COMMON pieces of malicious code "right out of the box"?
Question #3. What HAVE they been doing for the last five years?
Question #4. Why would I buy this?
Question #5. Why would I buy this?
Question #6. Why would I buy this?
Question #7. Why would I buy this?"

--

If you knew anything of value you would understand that Windows Defender isn't an Anti-Virus program, it's Anti-Spyware / Adware. Read about what's included and you'll see that Microsoft doesn't cover virii, that would be an immediate anti-trust suit.

[Dempsey @ Feb 1st 2007 7:54AM]

"While probably valid, computer::car analogies are getting very tired."

I never tire of saying the office IT guys are just glorified car mechanics.

[Brian @ Feb 1st 2007 12:06PM]

Couldn't you also do a slightly more ethical clean install by installing one of those copies of 2000 that everyone has floating about. It makes you do a clean install and Microsoft gives those away with copies of Visual .Net studio.

[Ben @ Feb 1st 2007 5:17PM]

You can do a clean install if the other OS is present, just select to do so after the previous OS has been detected -- the old stuff is wiped, and Vista is installed. The only thing that's missing is the option to insert a previous OS disc to proceed with a clean install.

There really isn't anything to 'get around'.

[Steve D. @ Feb 2nd 2007 10:38AM]

Ben, sadly, Microsoft took that out... now you HAVE to run the upgrade in a legit copy of XP or 2000 installation. Can't format it neither so that's when the trick being discovered.

Anyway it works, however change to the legit key in the trail version doesn't work, you still have to reinstall or simply upgrade Vista to Vista.

[TIMMAH! @ Feb 1st 2007 7:31PM]

I don't see what the big deal is. It ultimately gets you to Vista. You have to have had a prior OS on there anyways to start the whole process, so in effect it is an upgrade. The fact that you can install over it and get to a much cleaner state is a plus, but ultimately you're still running the version of Vista that you intended to run and that you were licensed to run. Okay so some people are going to get out of paying for the fresh install, but how many people are going to go thru three installs (old OS + 2 vista installs) just to bypass this?

[Ireney Berezniak @ Feb 2nd 2007 5:23PM]

So this "work-around" is pretty much useless to anyone who has a legit copy of XP. You still have to install some OS before you can upgrade to the final release of Vista. Pirates win, legit owners loose ... nice one, and all in the name of preventing piracy. Ironic, isn't it?

[Dave @ Feb 3rd 2007 4:34AM]

No..You're missing my point. I'm not saying Microsoft promoted or even ignored the fact that you could hack the Xbox. I'm saying it was easily hacked so it sold a ton more than it would have if it was un-hackable. I know a ton of people who bought another xbox just so they could have one hacked with evoX, and one they would use for Xbox Live. And yes... The same can be said for the PS1 AND PS2. They were both hacked but not as popular among hackers as the xbox.

As far as the gamecube goes... well.. there wasn't a whole lot of hacking going on there for a few reasons. One, they didn't have the games to warrant it, and two, the game cube media was not normal so it was almost impossible to make backups.

[Joelg @ Feb 3rd 2007 7:39AM]

Folks, can you boot directly from the upgrade disk? If so, I understand the double install hack since you could start with a formatted main disk and end up with Vista installed on it. However, I also hear that you "must still invoke the first install from XP or similar". If that is true then I don't see how the double install gives your a "cleaner" install. In that flow you never have a fully clean step and doesn't seem different than if you simply installed Vista the first time (launched from XP or similar) and you ask for a clean install and enter the key on that first go round. I'm obviously missing something; please advise.

[Eshan Mathur @ Feb 10th 2007 9:30PM]

For this trick I have a question; at the stage where you have the trial up and running, do you then FORMAT and clean install Vista? Or do you just run the Vista installer from within the trial system?

[steven @ Feb 11th 2007 10:39PM]

A trick like this also worked in W3.11 ... Seems like old flaws just keep creaping up... Much to our benefit.

[SuedeGopher @ Mar 12th 2007 3:47PM]

From what I understand (can anyone confirm?), when you attempt to upgrade vista from a 32-bit version of XP, you have to do a clean install (I'm assuming that means formatting, etc.?). Anyone had experience with this? I have my academic 64-bit version in the mail and I'm eager to figure this all out.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932795

[Brad @ May 2nd 2007 10:24AM]

This seems legal to me. I have XP Professional. When I tried upgrading to Vista Home Premium Upgrade, it told me to do a clean install using the upgrade disc because you can only upgrade to Vista Ultimate from within XP Professional.

Now I realize I'm using a trial version and I'll have to activate it by installing My upgrade over my current Vista installation. I See no other way of doing this.

[eleasias @ May 28th 2007 8:55AM]

Does anyone know if this Upgrade exploit performs as well as installing the full version of Vista clean, or if there is performance hindrance because it is essentially upgrading the upgrade. Thanks

[jfrykman @ Jun 1st 2007 5:53PM]

You are not upgrading an upgrade. The first install is a "clean" full install. You can only use this for 30 days and it will stop working. You are "upgrading" only in the sense that when you activate it, Microsoft sees that you are activating the upgrade product.

The clean install means simply that there is nothing cluttering up your registry with artifacts from the previous XP (or other) installation.