Panasonic's HDC-SD3 and HDC-DX3 bring the H.264

You know that pair of Panasonic 3CCD AVCHD camcorders recently announced for the US? Yeah, the HDC-SD1 and HDC-DX1. Well, you might want to give a tug on your wallet reins cowboy 'cause Panny just announced their HDC-SD3 and HDC-DX3 (pictured) HD camcorders. Besides bringing new desktop software to the show, these 1080i (1920 x 1080 now achieved without any tricks) recorders are fully H.264 capable for superior image quality. Like the pair before them, the SD3 and DX3 are feature identical except for the fact that the SD3 records to SDHC cards (4GB card in the box) while the DX3 records to 8-cm DVDs. Expect both cams to pop in Japan on April 25th: the HDC-SD3 should go for ¥150,000 ($1,269) while the HDC-DX3 will demand a tad less at ¥140,000 or about $1,185 by the time they arrive in the US after a few month lag. Check a picture of the SD3 after the break.

[PEZ @ Apr 3rd 2007 8:49AM]

sooo, these are 3CCD recording to 8cm DVDs? How long do I get on a mini-dvd like that? I am waiting for a review.

[Kieran Coghlan @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:22PM]

Recording time will be about 40min for the 4GB SD card, and about 14 minutes per side of the mini dvd.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/040307-panasonic-ups-the-image-quality.html

I also doubt that going to "full" 1920x1080 resolution will result in a much better picture than other brands' solutions, as Panasonic is having to use much greater compression to store these higher resolution images. It's a trade-off and which is better is very debatable.

[Jon Kelly @ Apr 3rd 2007 8:33AM]

Don't all AVCHD cameras (including the HDC-SD1 and HDC-DX1) record in h.264 format? It was my understanding that's the very definition of the AVCHD format. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD)

[Dan @ Apr 3rd 2007 9:56AM]

The SD1/XD1 have H.264 (or AVCHD). These new models add a CCD with a 'true HD' 1920 vertical lines, rather than 1440 lines found on most 'HD' camcorders.

[Jason @ Apr 3rd 2007 10:23AM]

Shouldn't this camera be able to record 1080p? If it can truly record 1080i then it has a CCD resolution of 1920x1080. To record 1080i instead of 1080p the camera would need to actively throw away information.

[Kieran Coghlan @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:09PM]

Jason, it's not just a matter of resolution. The fact that it has 1920 pixels across the horizontal doesn't make it any more or less capable of 1080p than a 1080x1440 CCD (which usually do 1080i also, not 1080p). The main limitation is bandwidth, or more specifically, throughput of data. 1080i is 1080x1920 at 30 frames per second, with alternating fields of 540x1920 at 60 fields per second. 1080p is 1080x1920 full frames, at 60 frames per second, which is twice the bandwidth of 1080i (assuming the same compression rates). When writing to storage media (be it HDV tape, mini-dvd, or some solid-state memory card) the data rate is very much the limiting factor. Now, it's entirely possible that this camera has a "progressive mode" at 1080p/30 or (more likely) 1080p/24, but both of these modes will look less smooth than 1080i.

[Porkchop Flavored Cupcake @ Apr 3rd 2007 3:26PM]

The way I see it, Panasonic won't implement 24p on these little cams because it's a key feature that keeps their higher end cameras attractive.
Some expect to see a 24p AVCHD camera take shape in a DVX-100 style body that will be announced at NAB. However, that camera will likely be at least 2 times more expensive than these cameras.

[Gary D @ May 2nd 2007 10:46AM]

Has anyone had compatability problems with the files the Panasonic camera puts out. They provided a rudimentary editing program with it that only runs with Windows machines but I want to use the HD files with Final Cut Pro on a Macbook. I havn't had any luck with Apple thusfar but to be fair, it has only been a few days. I don't think Microsoft would have been any more responsive to what amounts to an esoteric need, even if one of the big boys makes the camera.
Computer and software vendors like Apple and Microsoft are not responsible for hardware incompatabilities but it does no good when all vendors get in a circle and point fingers at eachother either. This leaves any of their common customers high and dry. I am appealing for help from anyone with experience in this area for just this reason.

[Alexei G. @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:22PM]

How many minutes of video will fit on a 4GB SDHC card?

Also, does "fully H.264 capable" also mean, "H.264 only"? Does it record in any other formats (DV 480i, for that matter)?

Thanks!

[tampasailor @ Jun 26th 2007 11:43PM]

Tested the HDC-SD1 at Circuit City. Bring your own SD card and take the files home. You can put 10 min of HD on a 1Gig SD card. Dont let them tell you it needs 4Gig. I imported the AVCHD to Pinnacle Studio 11 with no problems and wrote mpg4 files in HD. The focus at infinity seems off so will go back and try again at the store using a tripod to make sure it was not my fault. The OIS was very good and seemed more sensitive when zoomed in or more noticably helpful at least. I see now Studio 11 has a free upgrade to fix some bugs associated with the origional AVCHD feature.. not that I noticed any problems. As usual you can write to dvd, or cd or tape or file of your choice, HD or not HD. I wish the SD3 was available for testing. Oh I note that the colors are very well saturated due to the 3ccd and other than the infinity focus issue the vid looks great. Impressive for 829.00 with rebates

[tampasailor @ Jun 28th 2007 2:35PM]

Some comments to add to my previous. When accessing the SD chip one will see a separate file set for each clip. Pinnacle Studio 11 handles these without problem. I was impressed with the zoom control which allowed very smoothe slow zooms. Note that one would want to use a tripod with this camera most of the time as HD is very critical about shake and any movement. It is almost impossible to activate any of the controls handheld without some camera movement which really shows up on HD. It would even be great to have a release cable to trigger record/pause to prevent movement although with forthoutht and starting early this can be dropped out in editing. Still have problems with the Circuit City demo unit at infinity focus. I hope it is just the demo camera as I will probably purchase one of these..hopefully with good infinity focus. At some future time I might put a short sample mpg-4 file on one of my sites. This would be a good idea for engadget or some other camera oriented website to do wouldnt it! If anyone else has one of these cameras it would be great to have a skypecast or skype conference on the subject from time to time. Or just HD camcorders in general. Drop me a line if we can get together to exchange information.

[tampasailor @ Jun 28th 2007 5:49PM]

from Wiki H.264 is a standard for video compression. It is also known as MPEG-4 Part 10, or AVC (for Advanced Video Coding). The final drafting work on the first version of the standard was completed in May 2003.
and it goes on and on in supergeek...
and Wiki sez... AVCHD (Advanced Video Codec High Definition) is a new high definition recording format introduced by Sony and Panasonic. It can use various storage media, including 8 cm (3") recordable DVD discs, a hard disk, or flash memory cards. The format is being positioned to compete with other handheld video camera recording formats, particularly HDV and MiniDV.
As its name implies, AVCHD uses an MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) video codec. AVC's greater compression efficiency (when compared with the aging MPEG-2 codec used in HDV camcorders) allows AVCHD recorders to capture the same video using less storage. The audio track can be stored as uncompressed 7.1 linear PCM, or compressed AC-3 5.1. The compressed audio and video data are encapsulated in an MPEG-2 Transport stream, called HDMV. This stream format and most of the structure of AVCHD are derived from the Blu-ray Disc BDMV format. Consequently, AVCHD recordings can be played without modification in most set-top Blu-ray Disc players, such as the Sony BDP-S1, Panasonic DMP-BD10, and the PlayStation 3. Sony claims the format has a total storage time on a MiniDVD of about 20 minutes of high-definition video using "average" bitrates. By comparison, today's 80mm discs can store 30 minutes of standard-definition MPEG-2 video, and MiniDV tapes can store a full 60 minutes of either standard-definition DV or high-definition (HDV) video. It should be noted that at the maximum resolution, a standard 8cm DVD will hold just 15 minutes of material. The newer dual layer disks will hold 27 minutes. AVCHD camcorders using hard disks or flash memory such as SD or MemoryStick overcome this constraint and typically offer USB connections to access their content.
Among the touted advantages of AVCHD over MiniDV tapes is true random access, since time-based seeking on AVCHD does not involve a fast-forward/rewind operation as it would on tape-based formats such as MiniDV. For advanced users, however, digital video-footage is rarely edited in-camera anyway; instead, it is transferred entirely to PC, where the operator uses video editing software, so random access is less important to the professional.
Panasonic has released two AVCHD camcorders, the HDC-SD1 (with SDHC) and the HDC-DX1 (with recordable MiniDVD), with the AG-HSC1U (with portable 40GB hard disk and SDHC) on the way.
Canon will be releasing the HR10 (with recordable MiniDVD), its first AVCHD camcorder, in August 2007.
Panasonic is also working on a professional version of AVCHD called AVC-Intra found on the AJ-HPX2000.

[David @ Jul 24th 2007 12:35AM]

I am in Japan and have been looking at buying this camera. However, after going to one of the major stores after coming back from a business trip I was informed that suddenly the SD3 version was withdrawn from sale with no explanation from Panasonic. Does anyone know what the reason is?

In the store they were saying that there is a rumour that because Sony brought out an 8GB memory stick camera Panasonic might be re-releasing soon with an 8GB verion but that they had no definite information. The mini DVD version is still on sale by the way.

[Joe @ Jul 26th 2007 9:49PM]

I really want to buy the Panasonic HDC-SD1 and it's dropped dramatically on Amazon. It's only $800 now:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000LO92EK/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-0005526-5380044?tag=freeplefav-20&%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

Because it keeps dropping in price, does this mean the Panasonic HDC-SD3 will surface soon? Also, I don't see a *really* good reason to wait or pay more for the HDC-SD3, do YOU?