Microsoft lawyer whines about Apple's DRM complaints

The gloves have long since been removed in the battle war between Cupertino and Redmond, and while we wouldn't deem this a direct hit, it's a mighty blow to gut regardless. Microsoft's general counsel and executive vice president Brad Smith has apparently decided that whining about whiners is the best approach to garner public support, as he mouthed off to reporters and suggested that Apple should just shut its trap in regard to the limitations of DRM, and in a completely unrelated addition, claimed that sales of the iPod should be good enough for that oh-so-greedy corporation. More specifically, Mr. Smith claimed that he wasn't a "big believer in just blaming the music industry for Apple's inability to sell every conceivable iPod," but contradicted himself ever so slightly by insinuating that Apple should leave well enough alone and enjoy the profits the player is already pulling in. Is it just us, or do you sense this vibe of bitterness mixed in there somewhere, too?

[Via GizmoNews, picture courtesy of Worth1000]

[Storm9 @ Apr 14th 2007 8:02PM]

Guess he is just pissed off, that the Zune was a failure.

[Dragod @ Apr 14th 2007 8:29PM]

How can you call the Zune a failure when it's not even near the end of its life? Microsoft is investing atleast 3 years into their music project, Zune. This DRM thing they are fighting over is one of the reasons the Zune hasn't sold as well yet. All the people that bought the iPod earlier than the 5.5G are tied to iTunes because of the DRM, so when they buy their iPod and it breaks, they don't have a choice to buy anything else without losing everything they paid for. It's like saying "this is your music... as long as you buy our products."

Trust me, the Zune isn't going anywhere any time soon. Microsoft is in it for the Long haul. It's going to be just like the Xbox, when it came out people called it a failure because it didn't sell as well as the ps2, but what now? The Xbox 360 is the probably the #1 Game console. Microsoft can afford to take a loss in order to create a product that the consumer wants, whether that means through new features, or constant updates to the Zune. Microsoft is going to keep developing the Zune to appeal to the consumer market. Until then, it's up to the consumer to become smart about buying their music.

[Storm9 @ Apr 14th 2007 8:42PM]

You know, microsoft should get it right from the begenning, instead of screwing over customers by releasing version 2.0 only little time after 1.0.
For example look at Xbox, only 4 year lifespan!
Look at ps2, its still outselling the 360. You dont see anyone buying Xbox 1.
And now they are going to release Zune 2.0, just 1 year after.

Why not get right from the first, release a version 4.9 not 1.0!

[JimD @ Apr 14th 2007 9:12PM]

" All the people that bought the iPod earlier than the 5.5G are tied to iTunes because of the DRM..."

This is the biggest misconception about the iPod and iTunes Store. You don't have to buy your music from the iTunes Store. You can just rip your CD collection.

[Joe Smith @ Apr 14th 2007 8:06PM]

funniest picture i've EVER seen on engadget!

[Darnell @ Apr 14th 2007 8:19PM]

That picture is great..................................................................but violence bad.

[Dolomite @ Apr 14th 2007 8:26PM]

I am guessing that dismal failure named "Zune" had something to do with these comments. All three Zunes owners must have emailed him and complianed.

[Julian @ Apr 14th 2007 8:39PM]

Not sure where you got the idea that owners of iPods prior to G 5.5 are tied to iTunes because of the DRM. My 1st gen iPod happily plays non-DRM'ed MP3s without any problem, as have all iPods since. Rip your own, buy from e-music or others selling drm-free MP3s, whatever -- no tie in to iTunes necessary, never has been. Those who CHOOSE to buy DRM laden songs through the ITMS are as tied to it as others who CHOOSE to buy DRM-laden WMP files from others are to those stores.

[Curtis @ Apr 14th 2007 8:43PM]

Dragod, you got some things completely wrong.

1) I would not call XBox a success because the XBox 360 came out earlier than PS3 or the Wii.
XBox and XBox 360 are two different products. And it is completely up in the air who is winning the Game Console war! Wii, XBOX 360, or even the PS2!

2) iTunes DRM lock-in isn't the reason Zune has "skyrocketed" as Microsoft and their "fans" wanted.
iTunes allows you to burn protected AAC files to a CD. You would then have to re-import them as MP3 or unprotected AAC files. Then re-entered the tag information to identify the files. Now this is completely tedious but it is possible.

Could iPod be knocked off its high horse? As I iPod fan, I say yes. You heard me. But that would only be cause because of two reasons. A) iPod's quality goes to shit! B) Microsoft employs their infamous, illegal monopolistic tactics from the 90's.

[ghacon @ Apr 15th 2007 1:48PM]

There we go another 'Microsoft' lover. Microsoft again copies Apple but this time Apple has made sure that it keeps it's commanding market share, sure why can't Microsoft be happy selling a second rate OS??

[Ziglet @ Apr 15th 2007 9:08PM]

Your statement here makes absolutely no sense and nobody has called you on it, which I find odd.

Apple's complaint about DRM is that it sucks and should be done away with completely. The Microsoft guy is saying Apple should just shut up and reap the rewards of creating a proprietary market (Microsoft's version of mecca), but what Apple is doing is fighting and making contracts with record companies to take the entire online music market in a DRM-free direction, as indicated by Job's "thoughts on music" and the recent deal with EMI.

Apple's stance is that they hate DRM. They say they didn't even want to make a proprietary iTunes store, but had to to meet record company demands - based on this recent EMI deal I think we can believe them.

Basically, the Microsoft guy is sore because if Apple succeeds in getting DRM done away with, Zune, iPod, and every other mp3 player will need to compete on a level playing field - Microsoft doesn't want that because they are a topheavy company that doesn't know how to innovate. Their WHOLE plan for Zune is to somehow eventually take over the iPod marketshare and replace it with their own proprietary system. Apple's recent complaints (and actions) about crappy DRM are jeopardizing that plan.

End of story.

[Dragod @ Apr 14th 2007 8:43PM]

I'm not saying that 1-5G iPods only play DRMed files, I'm saying that most people who bought iPods before 5.5 bought them because they thought it was the best media player on the market. When their iPod breaks, what can they do but buy another iPod? If they would like to try something different, they can't. That is unless they were smart about how they bought their music. Sorry about the confusion.

[prophet6 @ Apr 14th 2007 10:20PM]

...Your first-gen iPod still *works*?

[wraith808 @ Apr 15th 2007 12:29AM]

Couldn't you say the same thing about Apple? Their 1G isn't the same as their 2G nor their... what are they on now? 5.5G? What's that? Oh... that's progress? Tell that to me who bought the 5G about 2 months before they upped the capacity and dropped the price...

IMO, that's the way technology progresses, and even though I've gotten hit by it more than once, I'd rather them release it and allow us to enjoy the fruits of what they release without worrying that improvements are around the corner.

[Jesse S @ Apr 14th 2007 8:50PM]

Goes to? The build quality is shit. They break easily. Plus, it outputs horrible audio, so audiphiles avoid it like the plague.

[Dragod @ Apr 14th 2007 8:53PM]

Well, The 360 came out a year earlier yes, but as of right now the 360 is probably the #1 Game system in the next gen. I'm not talking about Xbox or PS2, I'm talking PS3, Wii, and 360. As of this moment, the Wii and PS3 have nothing to touch the 360 with. so many great games and a great online experiance. Wii has no online, and the PlayStation is too expensive for anyone to buy it just to play Resistance, not to mention most of the formerly-ps2 exlusive titles are coming to the 360, that's not a good sign for Sony.

And about the CD's, most people don't realize this. Not to mention it costs more to do so, when I pay for my music, I want my music to play where I want it, not have to jump through loops just so I can keep all of my music that I own, or think I own.

And I agree, the iPod used to have much better quality, my friend has I think a 4G iPod, and it's lasted several years. Another friend of mine has a step brother who has gone through 2 5G iPods, something's wrong there. I'd rather not sacrifice the life of my device to say "mine is slightly thinner than yours"

[Leonard Nimrod @ Apr 14th 2007 9:13PM]

Dragod said: "If hey want to try [a different portable music player] they can't."

How exactly can you be commenting about iPod/iTunes and not have the slightest clue that you can LEGALLY remove the DRM from the tracks

I like to try out different gadgets so I bought a Zune. I used a single CD-RW and automatically, without my intervention, transfered all my songs from Protected-AAC to AAC, which Zune plays. The only problem I had was getting the Zune to work with the Zune software and complete a transfer of the songs.

Apple certainly has most of its customers "locked-in" to iPod/iTunes, but only because it's still, by a long shot, has the best integration and ease of use.

[obiwan @ Apr 15th 2007 3:31AM]

They were right. It is the best player on the market. Zune is crap. I'll give some thought to the various Zen models out there, they're doing well in their part of the market. I own an old MuVo and an RCA Lyra, which enjoy their time on my hip when I'm out running. But only because I'm not stupid enough to take my iPod out in those cases. And ready for this? They all plug into iTunes quite happily!

[zoara @ Apr 15th 2007 12:18PM]

Dragod - what do you mean, they have no choice but to buy another iPod? If my iPod broke, I could go out tomorrow and buy a Zune (well, I could if I was in the US anyway) or pretty much any other MP3 player and transfer all my music to it without any problems at all. Where are you getting this misinformation from?

[Curtis @ Apr 14th 2007 9:02PM]

Quality issues? I sent my iPod 3G in for repair. I think they (Apple) reset the firmware and/or reformatted the hard drive. I haven't had a issue with it since! And iPod Nano 2G and iPod Shuffle 1G? No issues whatsoever. And most audiophiles PREFER CD's or Vinyl!

[tundraboy @ Apr 14th 2007 10:08PM]

You do not sell 100 million units of anything if your target market is audiophiles. Sheesh.

[Chris @ Apr 15th 2007 12:39AM]

Graph showing iPod's flat response (From Stereophile):

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/PODFIG01.jpg

Comments from Stereophile review of 3G iPod:

"The iPod's measured behavior is better than many CD players—ironic, considering that most of the time it will be used to play MP3 and AAC files, which will not immediately benefit from such good performanc"
Source-http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/934/index5.html

Another comment from the editor:

"Furthermore, I have also made some comparisons, and you know what? It was very difficult for me to distinguish any difference between MP3s played on the iPod and CDs played on my Meridian 588 CD player."

Source-http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/934/index6.html

[The Grand Master @ Apr 15th 2007 5:57AM]

@ Chris, your evidence ist based on a now four times replaced product?

[Chris @ Apr 15th 2007 2:34PM]

"@ Chris, your evidence ist based on a now four times replaced product?"

The output quality has not changed much since the 3rd gen. Some think it is slightly improved.

[Storm9 @ Apr 14th 2007 9:02PM]

My mini has lasted 3 years and no problems.
BTW just wait till PS3 picks up steam, it just came out. Sony is in the for the long
run 10 years. Not 4.
IMO Ps3 will still be No.1 in the end. But the gap wont be as wide this time around.
PS3 is good for the long run, for right now 360 is better.

PS: Im not a apple fanboy, I use Windows. And I own a 360 and no Ps3(will when games come out for it) or Wii.

[LongshotX @ Apr 15th 2007 12:27AM]

The PS2, and Wii for that matter can sale a billion consoles a day doesn't make them the best consoles.

[Carbonize @ Apr 16th 2007 4:48PM]

Errrr wasn't there a story on Engadget about how the PS4 is in development and they are touting a 2010 release date?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/04/dont-bother-picking-up-a-ps3-ps4-is-right-around-the-corner/

"Sony has come out of the woodwork to state that yes, it is indeed planning to build a PlayStation 4, but not until at least 2010."

So much for being in it for the long run.

Personally I think Microsoft should release their own version of the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" adverts. The ones here in the UK keep going on that all a PC is good for is office work. Hmmm lets see. Which machine is the best one for playing games on?

[Jesse S @ Apr 14th 2007 9:04PM]

It's called lossless you idiot. No loss of quality from the CD or vinyl.

Heard of FLAC or ALAC?

[DavidM @ Apr 14th 2007 9:07PM]

you realize, Dragod, that when you talk about an iTunes/iPod DRM lock in, the average iPod owner has something like $10 worth of iTunes music on their iPod...most of it is from their own ripped CDs or stolen music

[Legshot @ Apr 14th 2007 9:09PM]

Microsoft != PC

[Paul @ Apr 15th 2007 7:09PM]

thats right, I forgot about the 5% that uses macs, and the 2% that uses Linux.

[Dragod @ Apr 14th 2007 9:27PM]

Well, I agree that the Zune software seems a bit rushed, so it is hard to use, but I like the Zune's interface more than the iPod's.

I know about burning the CD's to get rid of DRM, but what I said was that most people I've talked to didn't know that you could burn Cd's and use them in other programs. It's a pain for people with several thousand songs to copy every single song onto discs, burn them all and re-rip them onto the computer again.

But the problem you had is based on your computer, I had the same problem on an older XP Office computer, where it would take forever. But when I got a new laptop with a newer XP Media Center Edition, it worked fine. I'm not exactly sure what it was about the computers that do it though, I'm thinking either RAM or just the fact that that computer was insanely slow. Either way, I wish the Zune team hadn't rushed it so quickly, but I still love my Zune.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Apr 14th 2007 9:50PM]

DRM Dumpster, which I used, did the entire process without my involvement in one fell swoop. Besides automating the process it does it without breaking any copyright laws. Are you even allowed to burn tracks from the Zune Marketplace to a CD for personal use?

"It's a pain for people with several thousand songs to copy every single song onto discs, burn them all and re-rip them onto the computer again."

People do have thousands of songs, but the average number of iTunes Store songs (aka Protected-AAC) is only around 20, so that isn't much a problem.

I'm glad you like teh Zune better. I don't think anyone replying to you is saying the iPod is the best choice for everyone. But I think it's good to know the facts about a competitor's product before making claims about it.

I agree that the Zune's interface is certainly more eye catching. It has a larger display which will certainly appeal to many. iPod fans will state that since the iPod and Zune's resolution is the same that the iPod's display has a better picture. While this is technically true, the small size makes it impossible to tell them apart, so I'd say that the larger screen of the Zune wins out. But just wait for multi-touch-scren iPod Video running on OS X. The Zune's few benefits (note: WiFi squirting is nt one of them) to the curent iPod will pale in comparison.

[Revrant2394 @ Apr 14th 2007 9:39PM]

Not to side with Apple, ever, but they should take this advice - Microsoft knows something about "reaping the profits" of a single product.

[Dragod @ Apr 14th 2007 10:33PM]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that you can, though I haven't checked because I use my own Cd's aswell, but when I was talking about people with thousands of songs, I was talking about iTunes songs. I have a teacher right now who spends $10 a week in iTunes, he has a 30gb (used to have a 20gb, but it was stolen) and he had several thousand songs, and still does. I also know a few people who are just very irresponsible with their money, they will spend hundreds of dollars to buy the music they want, put it on their iPod, delete it off of their computer without backing up their files, and when they lose their data, they simply rebuy them. This is more than one person mind you, it's mainly just they don't know about backing up files, but they will have 30gb of music on their computers and about 50-60gb on the iPods.

But when I was showing my teacher my Zune after he had had his 20gb stolen, he said "You know, I was going to buy one, but I wouldn't have any music for it. All of it is for iTunes and my iPod." When I asked how many songs from iTunes he had he said around two to three thousand. I explained about the CD ripping, but it isn't exactly efficient with three thousand songs. I wish I had known about DRM dumpster, I'm sure he would have found that useful.

But what bothers me most the iPod is that a lot of people (in my experience) buy an iPod, simply because it is "THE iPod," everyone knows what it is and what it does, but they don't know how it works. "So, wait, how do I get the songs onto it?"
It just bothers me. Some people don't do any research before buying. All they know is that they want music, therefore, iPod.

Beleive me, I did my research before buying my Zune. I deeply compared the Zune and iPod before I decided on the Zune. I wanted something new. From several videos, reviews, pictures and articles about it, I thought it'd be worth it to try it, and I ended up liking it. I spent several hours searching websites and reading comparison charts before I bought it, unlike almost half of everyone I know with an iPod, they just bought it.

Sorry, it's all a bit cofusing... I tend to make things harder than they have to be.

[fearless @ Apr 14th 2007 9:53PM]

AWESOME PIC

despite i dont have a zune i dont think it was a failiure

[T.H. @ Apr 14th 2007 10:13PM]

Dragod, I don't care what the numbers are currently for the Xbox1 or Xbox360, and I have both in the house. It has numbers on it's side but it's lost billions to do so and I'm not sure that the Xbox360 can be profitable at all though MS's entertainment division is losing less money on the Xbox360 than on the original Xbox. When your product loses 2-3 billion smackeroos with a question as to whether it can eventually be profitable then it's a failure in the business world.

I do think the Xbox 360 has the best mix of design and functionality. It has enough features to make it a good gaming machine that shows off upgraded graphics and the like as well as processing power that is enough for pretty much any games being designed today.

The PS3 is the most technologically advanced and arguably the most powerful but it's not so much more powerful than the Xbox 360 than it's a day and night difference. Lot's of features crammed in but at such an exorbitant cost that I'm not sure it was a good business decision to go with Blu-Ray and Cell.

The Wii is weak in comparison to the other two consoles but it makes up for it with a unique controller that is making a pretty huge splash.

[LongshotX @ Apr 15th 2007 12:29AM]

They aren't in the red anymore. Get your facts straight. They are making money on each 360 sold.

[Zeus the God @ Apr 15th 2007 2:53PM]

I would just like to get this through to you guys with the thick skulls, and don't listen to the numbers.

The Xbox 360's GPU is far faster and more efficient than the PS3 will ever be. The only thing the PS3 has going for it is the speed of the RAM (3.2Ghz). It's sell processor is shit, the GPU is based off the NV47 (the G70 for us computer users), and the bull that they tacked on to it with the "1.6TFLOPS" and crap like that is a load of you know what. The computer version of that GPU is much more powerful and doesn't reach anywhere near those numbers.

Over all, the 360 is more powerful than the PS3.

You also have to look at it like this. The Xbox 360 is MicroSoft's second attempt at a game system, compared to the PS3 which is Sony's 3rd attempt. Taking this into account, look at the PS2 and the Xbox 360. I'm not comparing the power of the system, because we know technology is changing, but I'm talking about the impact on the market it has had. The Xbox 360 has had a much larger impact than the PS2. The sales on the PS2 are higher only because of how long it's been out.

As for Zune and iPod, the iPod sold 100 million units because of MARKETING. Not because of the quality of the player, but the MARKETING. They appealed to all the little rich kids, making them think they would be cool if they had their white little MP3 player.

The Zune has been out for about half a year, so of course the sales numbers on the iPod are going to be higher. Features wise, the Zune has the 5.5G iPod beat. The WiFi is ingenious, even though you guys bitch about it. MicroSoft is going to make the shared music DRM wrapped shit, but thats because MicroSoft isn't going to sit there and openly allow people to pirate music with their device.

You guys also talk about the new "Wide Screen Video iPod". You know what? It's not fair to compare those 2, because this is now. I don't see this fancy new iPod out, do I? No, so taking a product that is a step up from the product that the competition was made to compete with is unfair. Compare this new iPod with the new Zune. That will be a fair comparison.

All in all, features wise, the Zune has the iPod torn apart, with a much higher build quality to boot.

[Julian @ Apr 15th 2007 8:15AM]

prophet6, Yes, My 1G still works -- I replaced the battery two years ago with an aftermarket unit.

[chadow @ Apr 14th 2007 10:48PM]

The more stupid $hit I read from Ipod owners, the more I am glad I bought a Zune. For me its becoming a world of ANYTHING but Ipod. Kinda like a anyone BUT Bush. You know when you just get so sick of something you just want something different...yeah...its like that.

[Dragod @ Apr 14th 2007 10:57PM]

I agree, that's what I tell anyone I am talking to about the iPod. I've actually convinced my friend to get a Zune 2.0 once it comes out and his 20gb iPod dies.

[Neptune5 @ Apr 14th 2007 11:15PM]

it's as simple as this Apple makes the best Computers in the world (Hardware/OS) and they have been for over 30 years


People who know quality buy quality and don't bitch about price

Need a good car ? buy a Mercedes
Need a good watch ? buy a Rolex
Need a good game system ? buy a PS3
Need a good music player ? buy an iPod
Need a good phone ? buy the iPhone
Need an Amazing computer ? buy a MAC

its that simple when i purchase i don't just look at price i look at everything thing like an investment , and anyone who says ipods or apple computers are not that good their either un educated about what their talking about or they can't afford it.

QUALITY IS WORTH EVERY PENNY ;)

[mattstl77 @ Apr 14th 2007 11:46PM]

Too bad that there are no decent games for the PS3... yet. So far, the 360 and the Wii are what you would buy for quality games.

[Neptune5 @ Apr 14th 2007 11:51PM]

i understand i paid a $1000 to play Resistance for the last 5 months because it's the best game out but the free online play is worth it , and Blu-ray movies look amazing on it if only Gears of war was on PS3

[Storm9 @ Apr 15th 2007 12:05AM]

haha obviously you know a lot about quality!!
Mercedes Benz has some of the worst quailty in the industry.
BMW is much better and BMW has better cars.

BTW Steve Jobs is a big BMW Fan..fyi.

[Dragod @ Apr 15th 2007 12:11AM]

Well, If I was an educated person, I'd know not to trust your opinion. Considering that you are claiming that the iPhone is a quality phone, when it's not out. Meaning that you simply base all of your opinions on brands, rather than the actual quality of the product. You are the person that I love to laugh at. You go out and buy "The newest and greatest," yet you have not used the product or compared it to other phones. You just assume that your God, Steve Jobs, knows all. I mean, they wouldn't over-exaggerate their product, would they? 'Course not.

[LongshotX @ Apr 15th 2007 12:32AM]

Can you game on a MAC?

[Neptune5 @ Apr 15th 2007 12:56AM]

i've got some more numbers for you xbox/winblows lovers ( not that i don't like xbox an all)

the original xbox only sold 24 million units in 4 years the 360 has done 5 million and by December it will be 2 years

the original Playstation has sold 102 million units PS2 115 million units PSP 24 million units PS3 3.15 million units history tells us that by next year this time Xbox 360 will still be struggling to sell units and people will be buying PS3s

[John Doe @ Apr 16th 2007 12:01AM]

Neptune,

You sir are full of shit. I have a CD MBP. got it Feb of last year. In for repairs 6 count em 6 damn times. The replaced the system outright last fall with a new C2D MBP. On the bright side that one I've only taken in twice. Once when the system stopped going to sleep. Then once when the system stopped charging the battery. OS X? Finder is a fucking joke that can freeze on a network share if you look at it wrong.

I'm sorry but as much as I love my MBP its no better then any other manufacturer out there. Someone should stop drinking the damn kool-aid for once and start thinking for himself. People like are you are the most pathetic. I'm loyal to NO company. If you think Apple gives is shit about you, you are wrong. All they care about is feeding more money into their gullet. Jobs must go to bed at night glowing at the thought of the people he had under his thumb who would spend ANYTHING as long as it has an Apple logo on it.