iPhone to get third party apps
By Ryan Block 
posted May 30th 2007 7:41PM
posted May 30th 2007 7:41PM
Just in case you missed Walt Mossberg's sitdown with Steve Jobs earlier today, but in the open Q&A his Jobsness was asked point blank about the openness of the iPhone, and whether users can expect their $600 cellphone to be able to add on third party apps. His reply?"This is an important tradeoff between security and openness. We want both. ... we'll find a way to let 3rd parties write apps and still preserve security on the iPhone. But until we find that way we can't compromise the security of the phone. ... I've used 3rd party apps... the more you add, the more your phone crashes. No one's perfect, and we'd sure like our phone not to crash once a day. If you can just be a little more patient with us I think everyone can get what they want."
You heard it folks, Apple's working on allowing third party devs into the hallowed ground of the iPhone. One big issue (kind of) down, now we've just got to work on getting that thing a real keyboard and some 3G.
You will learn to love the touchscreen keyboard, his Jobness has foretold.
You guys need to quit whining about the keyboard, you haven't even used the damn thing, and if you have it wasn't for more than a few minutes. Jobs said it himself, it works, but it'll take a week or so to get used to.
I've used plenty of touchscreen lcd keyboards, pda onscreen keyboards, and even a few of those 'spillproof' flat keyboards that don't have seperate keys, and I can tell you, unless it has some sort of haptic force-feedback technology, it's going to be a complete pain to use, in terms of both comfort and convenience. At least even with a phone keypad, I can touch-thumbtype while I'm talking face-to-face with someone else - a little slow, but workable with T9.
I've used touchscreen keyboards like the iPhone offers and they suck. Difference is that the iPhone doesn't allow a stylus so it will suck worse. Of course, Steve said it only takes a minute to learn to use it so it has to be so...
haha yea Ryan you're going to LOVE it, i know it lol
i don't get why a phone should crash because of additional applications, if those and the phone os is well written it shouldn't crash.. else is bad coding.. a crash is caused by a software/hardware error, not by the numbers of applicatinons installed
He is implying that the 3rd party devs suck.
@ monon
The more (freeware, buyware etc.) software I download and install on my computer, the higher the percentage it will crash or cause a conflict with my computer. Same with iPhones, unless it has pass through Apple first for testing.
Have you ever installed more than a couple of 3rd party apps on a Palm or PocketPC device? That experience is why reset buttons are easily accessible and touted as a feature.
Personally I'm going to wait to see what the miracle screen keyboard is like before I start bitching about needing a slide-out, flip out, whatever out keyboard
Is it just me, or is it odd how the same statement, given by Microshaft, would be taken as a bad thing and anti-competitive? How is it that this is a good thing where they MIGHT allow third-party apps? This 'holy grail' phone is starting to sound less and less spectacular than the existing Palm and Windows based smartphones out there.
Enjoy your garbage fanboys, AT&T will certainly love the boost.
You either think your inciteful hatred will change someone's mind or you're wasting your time and you know it. Which one?
My guess is that 3rd-party apps will have to go through some kind of certification process with Apple that will cost the developers money.
How much money, and whether or not that cost will be passed on to consumers remains to be seen.
"At least even with a phone keypad, I can touch-thumbtype while I'm talking face-to-face with someone else - a little slow, but workable with T9."
Well that's just rude. These devices aren't made to cater to antisocial jackasses.
I thought it was more interesting he touted 3G networks needing a device that was "worthy" of them for a phone that doesn't include 3G support.
So, it's not for Steve Jobs?
Well I don't know about you, occhan, but we teenagers and earlytwentysomethings are quite capable of talking and typing at the same time wihtout disrupting the conversation at hand. Maintaining eye contact becomes the key factor.
pretty much just bs and hype / damage control. of course they're working on that, saying otherwise would be just.. well. pretty lame.
how about they add _just_ j2me? no security risks there. selling a phone lacking j2me and mms is just lame.
also, it's _supposed_ to run a "full" os(that should isolate processes somewhat, so the whole phone shouldn't go down because of 3rd party apps any more than mac osx desktop does).
however, creating installation environment, package control, api's suitable for 3rd parties etc etc takes time and they're hurrying the iphone.
I doubt 3rd party apps have anything to do with Apple, directly. It's probably more to do with AT&T wanting control over what you can put on their phone on their network. They'd probably prefer to use that pretty little OSX interface to sell you ported BREW apps at a premium price. That's the scary part of a one-carrier commitment. How much control is Apple giving up to bring this thing to market?
As I understand it, the hardware/software aspect of the iPhone is entirely under Apple's control. I'm sure AT&T is receiving a healthy percentage of profit to justify such a deal, but considering the iPhone's expected success, I doubt AT&T will try to bully Apple around with threats of dropping out as a carrier.
On a side note, I find it rather interesting that most comments that side with Apple are highly ranked on engadget, and those that either bash or just criticize apple or poorly ranked. It's as if people are unaware of Apple's reliance on consumer manipulation to drive their... oh.. nevermind.
3rd Party apps can cause the phone to crash because it may mismanage, relocate, or simply screw files, as well as sometimes delete them. A simple bug would cause the whole system to fall down, particularly if the app is running "outside" of the IPhone OS. Unless Apple creates its own script or regulations for 3rd party apps on iphones, there is NO WAY to preent crashes except by reviewing EVERY piece of code.
In regards to the keyboard, i find most "touch" controls to be annoying, particularly when you have to look at them while you type. Opting for a slide-out keyboard (IF IT ISNT FLIMSY), would add bulk, but definately make the device easier to use.
"there is NO WAY to preent crashes except by reviewing EVERY piece of code." -- not true. Google "chroot". It's a standard Unix feature (therefore available on OS X) that can be used to create a sandbox for a process or set of processes.
Call me crazy but I would be righteously pissed if my $500 phone crashed from any app. Heck I'd be mad if my $50 phone had any problems. Personally I like buttons, REAL buttons that resist a bit to pressure and maybe even make a nice click. The only way I could see liking a touch screen for that sort of thing is if it's like this
http://www.time4.com/time4/microsites/popsci/howitworks/cellphone_motor.html
Yeah I'm sure you've had a ton of phones that were designed from the ground up to be operated by touch screen easily instead of keys *rolls eyes* you guys are ridiculous, you've never even played with the damn thing you're just bullshitting reasons to not like it.
Here's an idea, lets use the fucking iPhone's keypad first, if it's shit, then by all means, BITCH AWAY.. but until you use it, you can't bitch about how shit it is. And one more thing.. why are American's constantly asking for a 3G iPhone when only 10% of them can use it, and they know WiFi is more ubiquitous and faster, and not to mention free in most places too.
For Europe on the other hand, if the iPhone is going to only come here with 2.5G, then it can go right back home.
Touchscreen keyboards aren't new, they're already known to suck. Just because it's Apple doesn't mean it should get a pass. I notice you aren't arguing against the complaints. That's because you can't.
Using WiFi as a substitute for real data also sucks and the percentage of users in the US where that's practical is even lower than for 3G data. Have you ever switched between WiFi and GPRS? Didn't think so.
yeah, what's with the incendiary "real keyboard" comment? you've never used the one there is, you know full well that apple is not gonna slap a keyboard on the thing, and that in fact the whole "iphone amaze" factor is that it doesn't need it....do you just toss out random empathy snippets?
I'm telling you, no 3G because it would suck that battery dry. And since you can't switch in a spare battery, you'll be left high and dry with a dead phone.
Call me crazy but I would be righteously pissed if my $500 phone crashed from any app.
--
Is that your twisted way of thanking Apple for their stance on 3rd parties...?
Okay.....
Why on Earth would I want a "real keyboard" on the iPhone? Then it would be just another crappy, bulky-yet-flimsy plastic slider phone. It won't happen, it shouldn't happen, so let's drop it, shall we? :)
However, I for one AM waiting for 3G. I simply don't buy the "but it has WiFi and EDGE is good enough anyway" excuse. It's bad enough going from a Sprint SERO plan unlimited Power VIsion, tons of minutes, texts, and full insurance for 40 bucks to AT&T's likely $100+ BS. I won't tolerate an accompanying SLOWER data service for more than twice the money.
Sure, that will be great for those users who have no need for text messaging. For those that do, any device with a real keyboard will be preferable to the iPhone. Apple cannot simply define usability, regardless how much they and theire fans think they can. Phones have evolved real keyboards for a reason.
My thoughts--This is a relatively new OS and that means that 3rd party apps will have to start building from scratch and we all know that the first versions normally have bugs that can crash the app. I don't think there will be a certification process--more like licensing. It's great for the consumer because we can install apps that would have been rigorously tested and more prone to work than fail.
I really just want Office compatibility out the box. Everything else I can wait for.
I agree with CharlieX, I believe the most compelling reason to omit 3G in this first generation iphone is because of battery life. Although Jobs didn't say anything of substance when asked about the battery life, it did sound as though it would be respectable if not impressive. By NOT having a removable battery I'd expect apple to come with the funk, 5hrs talk/video for sure, not to mention 16 hrs of ipod to boot.
I am soooooo drooling over this....
"Why on Earth would I want a "real keyboard" on the iPhone? Then it would be just another crappy, bulky-yet-flimsy plastic slider phone. It won't happen, it shouldn't happen, so let's drop it, shall we? :)"
Go try one of those "laser projected" keyboards will ya? keying is extremely difficult without tactile feedback. And by the way, I said that a slider would be ideal as long as the thing is NOT FLIMSY!!!!!!
Plus, even within the OS, the software can fail, and cause quite a bit of problems, no matter how much you do to protect it if you let anyone write code and put it on there!!!
BCALL_delete 0
A slide out keyboard on a phone that isn't flimsy. That's like asking for water that isn't wet... Unless you want an ugly brick for a phone??
The whole centre of the iPhone is the multi touch technology. If you want a tacky plastic keyboard fcuk off and buy one.
Every aspect of the iPhone is the finest engineering and design quality available in a mass produced product. A 1990's retarded little plastic keyboard is not in the same universe as the iPhone.
Engadget is a slightly biased site, needless to say, and so are the people who "stop-in".
Apple is not a bad company, and niether is Microsoft (watch this post be the lowest ranked post in the history of the web. There is no one company that makes everything just amazing and perfect the first time around! (Ok, google dosen't count (niether does mozzila)) Hey I agree with Dave, but people, don't go overboard with the battle of PC vs. Mac ..., there are children here! :)
What exciting news! They are thinking about maybe possibly adding support that should've existed since day one if they can figure out that p[esky little security thing. Luckily they have plenty of time to work on that before launch next month...
Hm let's think, I'm 17 years old and if someone would type something in his phone while talking to me, I would ask him to stop wasting my time and walk away. Im capable of multitasking too, but it just shows how uniterested you are in talking to someone else. Im not fond of the "human relation stuff", but to get all the points in a conversation you realy need to listen cleary. (I could come noe with the neurobiological stuff, but that would get odd soon.)
Have a nice day ijan
i really believe all the "getting that thing a real keyboard" comments will seem quaint in a few years... somewhat akin to people who bitched that the iMac didn't have a floppy drive. :)
we'll see.
That's what was said when the first Windows Mobile phones came out. All of those had soft keyboards (and crappy battery life). Meanwhile, the Treos and Blackberrys came out with thumb keyboards and were a huge success. Now, virtually all smartphones have real, full keyboards. There's a reason for that.
Of course, Apple's never made a phone and it's top execs admit to never having used them in the past. Their classic "form before function" philosophy is on full display as is their hubris. Of course, we should all now believe they will rewrite history and thumb keyboards will soon be considered quaint. What's more likely is that Apple lovers will live in denial and cease to use the device in any manner in which it doesn't excel. That will mean avoiding the crappy keyboard whenever possible. Doesn't matter, all they want is the iPod and status symbol anyway.
just because you're capable of doing two things at once doesn't somehow make them okay to do at the same time.
You earlytwentysomething might be quite capable of chatting on the phone while sitting on the toilet, but your amazing multitasking ability doesn't make it polite.
You may be capable of texting, eating nachos, and driving an SUV down the highway, but if you do this all at the same time, no matter how "capable" you are, you're still a dick.
Different group of people, different situation, different acceptable norms. You probably don't act the same way in front of your boss as your friends, and vice versa.
And since when was texting limited to driving-only? Just because you - presumptuous twit that you are - can't imagine a scenario such as (my roommate is at the library and wants to ask me if I want to grab dinner when he's done, and I'm in the middle of talking to someone else and I want to give a brief reply) or (I'm at a party and there's no way I'm going to be heard over the noise; meanwhile, I'm texting directions to a friend, while talking about him to someone else I met) doesn't mean that other people can't find appropriate situations to text instead of call.
Just because you can't see your own kids (real or hypothetical) handling technology responsibly doesn't give you the right to assume that others don't know how. Dick.
Palms don't have easily accessable reset buttons and WM5 devices don't have them at all. Nice try.
"I've used touchscreen keyboards like the iPhone offers and they suck. Difference is that the iPhone doesn't allow a stylus so it will suck worse."
Wow! You have used multitouch screen keyboards? Really?
The iPhone touchscreen keyboard is not multitouch. Watch the demo.
Ok a couple of things:
1. After today's action at D5, I think its really just poor taste at this point for the platform bickering. Those two guys can not only be civil, but have a sincere respect and admiration for each other and their work. They've grown up.
How about us kids down here on the ground join them?
2. Guys, guys, guys. Are we now so "expert" and so jaded in all things tech now that we believe everything that can be done has been, and nothing can be improved?
Are we selling Apple a bit short here based on the failures of others? They have a way of making things work where others have only half-assed it; I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.
If the man says that the onscreen keys aren't gonna be a nightmare, I'm willing to let him prove it; Apple generally tends to spend their money on the hard stuff. If the man says it will jump to and fro from WiFi to GPRS without being a nightmare, then I mean, its a software thing. Apple knows about software things. He's probably right on, or very close to the mark.
Hell, after seeing what I saw from MS' labs with Surface, I think a lot of us need to shake loose some preconceived biases about what these companies are truly capable of doing.
1. It isn't in poor taste to blindly cheerlead a product that doesn't exist simply because of who is developing it? Who says these two have grown up? It's just business.
2. Sure it can. Apple's soft keyboard is not different from other that have come before it though. You have seen the demos, right?
No, we aren't selling Apple short, and I'd suggest it is "in poor taste" for you to claim Apple should be given the benefit of the doubt. No one else would deserve it. Cell phones aren't a new technology or market. There are huge profits at stake and many approaches have been tried. Apple knows nothing of this and is pursuing a dead design. Only it's true believers fail to recognize that.
"The man"? Jobs is being a frontman, not "the man" so try not to be so blind. Would Jobs say the keyoard sucks but hopefully you'll like it anyway? Of course not, but that's the reality of it.
Just because something 'has not' or 'was not' in the past doesn't mean it won't be in the future. How short sighted....
Yes, ajgalli, I'm shortsighted because I've used devices with virtually identical keyboard implementations in the past. Who knows, the horse-drawn carriage may make a roaring comeback. Wouldn't want to be shortsighted.
All you guys have is the word of Steve Jobs that the keyboard will be good. He wouldn't have reason to lie, would he? Why don't you guys go out and try devices with this style keyboard. They do exist, you know. Wouldn't want knowledge and facts to get in the way of your idol worship, though, would you?