MacBook Pro updates coming June 5th?

You'll have to take this with the usual Apple-sized grain of salt, but Mac Rumors is now reporting that we could be seeing some updated MacBook Pros as soon as Tuesday, June 5th, not at WWDC as previously rumored. That bit of information comes from a French reseller, who says that he's already ordered the new laptops but wasn't told exactly what the updates would be -- although the betting still seems to be on LED backlighting and a Santa Rosa upgrade. Lending a tad more credence to this latest rumor is the fact that a June 5th launch would coincide with the start of Apple's Back to School program, whereas a WWDC launch would cause a spec change a week into the promotion. Either way, it looks like we won't have to wait too much longer to put this round of rumors to rest.

[Dan @ Jun 1st 2007 2:15PM]

If this forthcoming announcement is nothing more than a Santa Rosa + LED backlight bump to the existing 15" and 17" MacBook Pros, then that's still a perfectly reasonable thing for Apple to do and they'll sell plenty of them. If we get the other rumored subnotebook device, that would be much more interesting.

When Apple does modest spec bumps, such as the recent MacBook speed bump or when they bumped the Mac Minis, they tend to do the announcements *before* a trade show. When they introduce something actually new, it tends to happen *at* a big show. As such, it's again quite likely that this announcement could be a new 15" and 17" but without the rumored subnotebook.

And, of course, it's the rumored subnotebook that I actually want. Even the 13" Macbook is too big for my needs. What I really want is something akin to the two-pound Sony Vaio G1, but from Apple.

[Nerdtalker @ Jun 1st 2007 1:13PM]

Perhaps the LED back lighting will also help offset the claims being made that apple knowingly used inferior LCD panels for their entire line of MacBook Pros.

Wouldn't that be just wonderful? (I know I'm going to get voted down for this)

[js @ Jun 1st 2007 1:41PM]

Actually, a screen with LED backlighting can be just as terrible. Have you seen uneven backlighting that plagued the first-gen VAIO TX?

I'm expecting the same problem since as far as I know there's no notebook manufacturer out there using a 15.4" LED-lit LCD.

[Ethan Duffy @ Jun 1st 2007 1:18PM]

I don't see what relevance the Pro models have to an education-focused programme, but seeing as Jobs has been talking about LED backlighting for a while now and everybody's upgraded to Santa Rosa it could never have been too long until both found their way in to the Pro line.

[randy @ Jun 1st 2007 1:21PM]

The MacBook pro is a fantastic machines. There is nothing else like it. Everybody should have one they are worth every penny.

[Syndication @ Jun 1st 2007 1:48PM]

Sure, but not everyone has 2k to drop on a laptop.

If they really were worth every penny, Apple wouldn't try to screw you over on the power adapters for these things. $85.00 for a replacement AC adapter? Are you serious? Ontop of the fact that those adapters are notoriously easy to bend and break.

I'm sorry, I have a macbook pro, and while it's a good laptop, it is far from perfect. My battery started expanding, replaced it. The screen has a couple of dead pixels and the case lid is somewhat tweaked and on top of all that I have an underclocked ati x1600 woo hoo!

It's all perfect till you have to take your laptop into Applecare where they blame you first for the problems the machine is having. I just bought a black macbook and the wireless was dead out of the box. Do you know how long it took to get me a replacement? It took me about an hour arguing over the phone to confirm my wireless was dead when I had told the person on the otherside that it was a hardware issue. ONLY then did they agree to replace it after an hour. What a waste of my time.

My Powerbook G4 was a solid laptop. Apple quality has taken a hit since then. Using cheap parts and keeping the prices high.

[andy @ Jun 1st 2007 1:21PM]

id just like to add that anouncing santa rosa and shipping it are two different things for those saying this is late, plus, the current pros already have 'n' wireless remember so not quite as much to gain as a lot of pcs

[VoxMatt @ Jun 1st 2007 1:40PM]

I think MacRumors missed the strongest evidence for an imminent update: the launch of a new/updated online Apple outlet store. It's essentially just a revamped version of their old clearance page, but more notable than the new look is the slew of rapidly discounted current generation Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros. It strongly appears as though Apple is clearing out their current inventory. In fact, as a rabid Apple discount watcher, I don't recall seeing this many MacBook Pros on their clearance site ever, much less at these discount levels.

This may still be in preparation for WWDC, but June 5th is sounding more and more realistic to me...

[VoxMatt @ Jun 1st 2007 1:43PM]

I guess that you can't embed links in comments at Engadget anymore, so here's the link to that Apple Outlet Store site. That is, if I can put links in at all:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?cid=AOSA10000025758&siteID=SnlbqrT3b2s-xVYFgZkEEvDud2rW7hxEoA&family=CertifiedMac

[david @ Jun 1st 2007 2:04PM]

Syndi, Have you seen the cost for ANY company's replacement AC adapters? Dells are sometimes over $100, same with Sony. I just buy knockoffs on eBay.

[david @ Jun 1st 2007 2:36PM]

Syndi,

Try a notebook that isn't the bottom of the line or discontinued...

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/DellPartsProductListing.aspx?c=us&category_id=6731&category_name=Latitude+D520+Power&cs=04&l=en&ManufactSelection=Latitude&ModelName=Latitude+D520&ModelSelection=167720&RPU=1

Dell $79 for adapter over $130 for a battery

http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/ecom/accessories/web/categorySearch.do?operation=subCategorySearch&subCategory=21&category=3&subCategoryName=Adaptors&categoryName=Computer

Sony $89 to $139 for adapter

Quit your crying. You knew what you were buying and you knew the acces. were expensive. If you don't like paying the premium, buy a Lenovo. Christ, its like buying a BMW and expecting $20 oil changes from the dealer. And before you start with the Mac is not a BMW crap; why have you kept buying Macs over the years? Its because you like them, and you know its a premium item. Is it overpriced? Hell yeah, but they all are for acces. That is a huge profit item.

[Syndication @ Jun 1st 2007 2:10PM]

Uhhh no.

Dell adapter for Latitude D620 - $39.99
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=310-7697

Most of the more recent dell computers all use the same adapter, so unless you're running a docking station and need a 90W adapter. It'll be $40 bucks. Half the cost of what apple is charging.

I can't say anything for sony, they products they put out are OVERPRICED period.

Lets take a look at Lenovo

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/catalog.workflow:show-category-with-items?category-id=BB4F0E920BE54557894A3B4C33B5864B

$39.00 for a 56W adapter
$49.00 for a 72W adapter.

Quit lying. Apple adapters are OVERPRICED.

[Syndication @ Jun 1st 2007 2:16PM]

You also won't see any third party magsafe adapters either on ebay. Why? Because apple has a patent on magsafe and will sue anyone into oblivion who tries to make a 3rd party adapter.

So much for trying to get an adapter way below retail pricing

[John P. @ Jun 1st 2007 2:17PM]

> I don't see what relevance the Pro models have
> to an education-focused programme

Because art students use them in college, because faculty/staff/professors use them at colleges. The same might be true for HS as well.

[andrew harrison @ Jun 1st 2007 6:42PM]

not to mention graphic and multimedia design students. Hell, in my whole faculty, all the staff have macbook pros [some are still on their powerbooks] and three of the four computer labs in our building are full of 20" iMacs, and there are some Power Macs floating around somewhere.

[Russ @ Jun 1st 2007 2:17PM]

dude... not everyone wants to skimp on something as important as a laptop.. 2 grand for a portable desktop quality computer is a bargain to me. There is no equal to the macbook pro right now.. sure some might beat it specs wise... but how much stronger do the specs need to be to offset all the benefits of having a macbook pro... not to mention mac os x...

I'm sorry you've been having issues.. but apple's warranties are top rate.. i don't call someone if i'm having an issue.. i go right to the store and they handle it immediately... although i've yet to have one with my macbook pro..

85$ isn't that bad for a power adaptor.. they're made so much better than your average dell brick.. they even look better.. i had to spend 79$ on a new adaptor for my powerbook and gladly did just so I could sell it for more.. my powerbook was 2.5 years old and i just sold it for a grand... a grand man.. that means my macbook pro was only a grand..

you'd think i'd be mad that they're coming out with upgraded macbook pros and i just bought one not too long ago.. but I really couldn't care less.. I'm buying the 30 inch monitor this weekend, and then i'll be in desktop/laptop heaven.





Sure, but not everyone has 2k to drop on a laptop.

If they really were worth every penny, Apple wouldn't try to screw you over on the power adapters for these things. $85.00 for a replacement AC adapter? Are you serious? Ontop of the fact that those adapters are notoriously easy to bend and break.

I'm sorry, I have a macbook pro, and while it's a good laptop, it is far from perfect. My battery started expanding, replaced it. The screen has a couple of dead pixels and the case lid is somewhat tweaked and on top of all that I have an underclocked ati x1600 woo hoo!

It's all perfect till you have to take your laptop into Applecare where they blame you first for the problems the machine is having. I just bought a black macbook and the wireless was dead out of the box. Do you know how long it took to get me a replacement? It took me about an hour arguing over the phone to confirm my wireless was dead when I had told the person on the otherside that it was a hardware issue. ONLY then did they agree to replace it after an hour. What a waste of my time.

My Powerbook G4 was a solid laptop. Apple quality has taken a hit since then. Using cheap parts and keeping the prices high.

[craig @ Jun 1st 2007 5:12PM]

I'm curious to know, Russ, what is the basis for your claim that Apple power adapters are "made so much better than your average dell brick". Apple's adapters have had inadequate strain reliefs that lead to early life failures. They've replaced the connector with the magsafe one but still haven't improved the strain relief. In my mind, it proves you exactly wrong.

My MBP 15 took a short drop that bent its chassis. I would expect most any plastic-cased notebook to have survived that drop, but the real outrage was the repair cost---$660 to replace one chassis piece. I was warned that if any internal parts were damaged the repair would be over $1100. I don't see how anyone in their right mind can justify such an outrageous charge. It was gouging, pure and simple.

[Russ @ Jun 1st 2007 5:26PM]

all adaptors are extremely vulnerable to rough use since the coiling can easily change the voltage output. My remark centered around the fact that at my last company almost everyone had a dell, and 3/4 of them had to have theirs replaced within two years of use. softer plastic, no magsafe, bigger, uglier, and mine never failed, I said above I replaced one, but the thing is, it wasn't even mine, I traded with a friend because he though it was his computer not working with that specific adapter.. we switched and within a week my computer was having the same problem.. he paid for the adapter.. I've never had a problem with mine.

I think you need to be more careful with your computer.. it's not price gouging.. it's a lot of work to reinstall all the internals back into a new frame. don't complain just because you are careless enough to let it happen. or do what i do.. get laptop insurance.. protects against theft, loss, fire, and drops.

either way.. i don't care if the adaptors expired every 6 months.. I'd still use an apple.

[Russ @ Jun 1st 2007 2:18PM]

dude... not everyone wants to skimp on something as important as a
laptop.. 2 grand for a portable desktop quality computer is a bargain
to me. There is no equal to the macbook pro right now.. sure some
might beat it specs wise... but how much stronger do the specs need
to be to offset all the benefits of having a macbook pro... not to
mention mac os x...

I'm sorry you've been having issues.. but apple's
warranties are top rate.. i don't call someone if i'm having an
issue.. i go right to the store and they handle it immediately...
although i've yet to have one with my macbook pro.. 85$ isn't that
bad for a power adaptor.. they're made so much better than your
average dell brick.. they even look better..

i had to spend 79$ on anew adaptor for my powerbook and gladly did just so I could sell itfor more.. my powerbook was 2.5 years old and i just sold it for agrand... a grand man.. that means my macbook pro was only a grand..you'd think i'd be mad that they're coming out with upgraded macbookpros and i just bought one not too long ago.. but I really couldn't care less.. I'm buying the 30 inch monitor this weekend, and then i'll be in desktop/laptop heaven.

[Syndication @ Jun 1st 2007 2:31PM]

The warranties aren't top rate if your screen cracks or if they can lay the blame on you. Remember palmrest discoloration on the macbooks, how long did it take Apple to admit it was a problem? How many people do you think they turned away on the basis of cosmetic issues? Trust me, if I walked into an Apple store tomorrow with a crack it my screen, no amount of applecare would get me out of not having to pay. Now I know Dell isn't the best manufacturer out there, but I can call them up and they'll drop ship you a new screen next day shipping no questions asked if you have a warranty.

"There is no equal to the macbook pro right now.. sure some
might beat it specs wise... but how much stronger do the specs need
to be to offset all the benefits of having a macbook pro"

What do you mean no equal? last I heard Santa Rosa is out and the macbook pros are still on the old chipsets. Unless you're only talking about how the design is, In that case I'd agree with you, but specs count. What if I told you 40 gb was all you needed EVER. The only benefit is OSX, spec wise, apple is lagging with outdated video and speed.

$79 and $85 are RIPOFF's for a defunct power adapter. I encourage you to read reviews in the Apple Store to see what pieces of junk these adapters are. Even clunky dell adapters outlast Apple's offering. I'm sorry, just because an adapter has a magnetic latch does not make it a better adapter. For durability Apple Power Adapters get an F.

[Russ @ Jun 1st 2007 2:57PM]

well then maybe you shouldn't crack your screen... no offense but i don't expect apple to cover it if i break my screen.. and yeah my brother had the discoloration on his macbook.. he took it in and they fixed it no questions asked in a day.

I don't want to get into a heated apple pc debate here.. but yeah i do take mac os x into consideration.. i mean, just that is increasing my productivity, and efficiency exponentially over winblows. Seriously, windows is so 1992. so you take mac os x, and all the little features, (scrolling trackpad, bigger trackpad, sms, design, illuminated keyboard, magsafe, isight, etc.) and you compare all those benefits to having a processor that might make a 3-5% increase in speed (that's generous).. and i'm fine with the graphics card.. 256 megs.. able to run a 30 inch external as a second monitor.. come on. The only benefit is not mac os x... it's the whole package if you're actually weighing things to their appropriate proportions.

I agree that the power adaptors aren't cheap, and when it comes time to buy another one, I won't be happy.. but I will be happy if i trip over my power cord and it doesn't break my laptop. seriously.. i've done it with my powerbook. (and i didn't expect them to fix it for free.) It's a premium feature that they deserve the premium price for. It was there idea, and it was a good one.

[jabar @ Jun 1st 2007 2:21PM]

Give me a BlueRay drive!

[josh.mauldin @ Jun 1st 2007 2:36PM]

It isn't uncommon for laptop/other product updates to happen after a promotion begins. When I worked for Apple, we updated some of our product after a promotion began.

[Gaurav Sharma @ Jun 1st 2007 2:45PM]

Samsung has a 15.4" PVA notebook LED backlit panel ready to go soon. Less likely it'll feature in the 17" model though, perhaps later in the year - it's more economical for them to start with LEDs in smaller models simply because less LEDs are required and it's easier to get even lighting. Sony has had 11, 12 and 13" LED backlit models out for some time now, expect Apple to be shooting there (along with utilization of the new 15.4" panel) with their updates.

btw for those who aren't clear on this - the 3 clear benefits of LEDs will be:
1) Wider color gamut reproduction (this might not be noticeable or matter to most)
2) Slimmer LCD panel casing required (i.e. 0.8" MBP could become a reality due to this tech)
3) Better stamina - the Sony SZ non LED lasts 4hrs typical on normal models and 5hrs+ on the higher end models which have the LED (all else remaining similar).

[Syndication @ Jun 1st 2007 2:46PM]

Seriously, you are an Apple Fanboy. Too loyal to hear any logic or truth. I have news for you, Apple doesn't give a crap about you. No company does, but yet you spin for them, so blinded by your fanboy role.

I told you SONY is OVERPRICED and yet you show an example of a SONY charger. Well my response is DUHHH. Sony laptops are POS and overpriced.

Next...
You picked a slim Dell charger that is $79.99, but guess WHAT? You can get a normal charger for $40. It's only $80 for the style, but again who cares about style. A charger is a charger. Still $40 IMHO.

Is the D620 bottom of the line or discontinued? I'm sorry they're still producing it. If you weren't such a blind fanboy, you'd do some research into these areas. Sure the Dell D630 is out based on the Santa Rosa chipset, but it uses the exact SAME CHARGER. IMAGINE THAT! Nice spin fanboy, too bad the examples you cited only prove you picked the most expensive chargers those two companies have to offer in an attempt to justify your claims.

Quit my crying? I'm sorry if we should blindly accept what Apple puts out. Next thing you know Apple will charge you just to turn on their machine and guess what? You'd accept. As far as I'm concerned, comparing and contrasting cars and computers never work. A macbook pro has the same parts as any other PC laptop out there. You're buying it from the same tawainese companies that produce laptops for every other company. The only difference is the branding and the operating system.

Actually, what I demand is reliability is power adapters. Apple has a crappy track record of making their adapters durable. Don't you think some improvement is needed? Or should we just take it and accept it. You sound like those Apple Shills who kept shouting down people who had actual problems with their macbooks. Doesn't suprise me. Attack an apple product, and you've insulted the apple faithful.

Actually, I have bought both platforms over the years, not just macs, unlike you I use multiple operating systems and am not blinded by marketing or hype. But yes, continue to believe Steve Jobs. He's always right!

[Russ @ Jun 1st 2007 3:07PM]

why buy both platforms anymore.. esp. if you have a mac.. I'll never give any money to any pc makers.. because i can do everything i need on macs... and believe you me.. that's a lot.

[Jason Carroll @ Jun 1st 2007 2:50PM]

I don't doubt that something is coming in a couple of weeks, but this supposed French reseller is not a reliable source. I sell memory to the largest Apple resellers (and parts dealers) in the country (and Canada) and the owners of these companies don't even know an update is coming until the day it happens.

Sure would be nice to have all of the above...LED, Santa Rosa, Blueray/HD-DVD, and heck, why not throw in an ultra-portable!

[Jeff Foster @ Jun 1st 2007 2:50PM]

I'm just hoping for at least a speedbump in the iMac line, if not a new generation.

[Rachel @ Jun 1st 2007 3:31PM]

I am a dirty fucking spammer: [e-mail]

[nicholas @ Jun 1st 2007 3:36PM]

I had a Fujitsu Tablet, a slate, and the damn power adapter took more space in my bag that the machine. One can bitch about cost, but for something that generally is usable for two to three years, consider your options well. If it costs too much by something else. Apple’s products are expensive, but not so out of line that I would consider another product.

I also didn’t complain about the service costs on my BMW. I could have very well purchased something else, but the car was actually a great value, durability-wise, as well as resale-wise. Now I ride my bicycle however.

Your time commitment to posting probably cost the difference between the two products, but who knows maybe Steve feels your pain.

[rdrr @ Jun 1st 2007 3:36PM]

Syndication,

So if I don't agree with you, I am just an Apple Fanboy shouting? You need to take a breath get out and enjoy life. Save the shouting for the letter to the BBB, or other Consumer Advocate groups. Shouting here isn't going to get Apple to change their practices, it is just going to give you (and me from reading long posts) a headache.

FYI, the adapters haven't had bending issues since the magsafe design. FWIW, I agree with you on the older design, (worst design to have w/kids).

[dynamicD @ Jun 1st 2007 4:16PM]

any price increase?

[craig @ Jun 1st 2007 9:15PM]

"I think you need to be more careful with your computer.. it's not price gouging.. it's a lot of work to reinstall all the internals back into a new frame. don't complain just because you are careless enough to let it happen. or do what i do.. get laptop insurance.. protects against theft, loss, fire, and drops."

Sorry, Russ, but my MBP repair was $600 parts and $60 labor. That's $600 for one part and it's not even a piece of electronics. It was gouging and me "letting it happen" has no effect on that. Notebooks are subjected to shock and vibration tests because the are expected to handled rough. A 2 foot fall is within the limits of what a notebook is expected to handle. MBPs are fragile.

"all adaptors are extremely vulnerable to rough use since the coiling can easily change the voltage output."

Oh, so now rough handling is ok? Coiling a cord does not impact voltage. You are an idiot.

"softer plastic, no magsafe, bigger, uglier, "

unsubstantiated and subjective "facts" yet none back up your original claim that the Apple supplies are better made.

"I've never had a problem with mine."

I've owned a half dozen Dell notebooks and never had a problem with any of them either. My MBP 15 needed returns for repairs 4 times in the year I owned it (once for the bent chassis), the magsafe connection has become damaged due to a poor strain relief, and now the battery has failed. My new 17" MBP was DOA and had to be returned the first day.

"either way.. i don't care if the adaptors expired every 6 months.. I'd still use an apple."

And there you've revealed the true reason for your post, you are a pitiful fanboy. Apple power adapters aren't better made than Dell ones at all, they are just stylish and white. It's the "shiny" that drags you in.

[Mac Dub @ Jun 1st 2007 7:23PM]

Wow. You guys need to take your little tiff out to the sand box. Now now kids.

Anyway, back ON topic, you never can belive all the rumors, but I think it's almost safe to say we'll be seeing something new in the MB Pros within the next 10 days. I work for a reseller in Spain and my boss told me the same thing this (friday) morning, that the new release is due out Monday. Of course what does he know, right? I asked him if he personally rang El Jobso on his new iPhone and he said, "No, me lo dijo Dios." Whatever and whenever they arrive, Apple Insiders source says the 15" is .4 lbs lighter and the 17" is .6 lbs lighter. LED anyone?

[craig @ Jun 1st 2007 9:21PM]

I believe the claim is that the 17" is not getting LED so if the weight savings is true, LED is probably not reason. The 17" is so large that I don't think the weight savings is all that important. What it really needs is a more even backlight. My 17" backlight is terrible. I'd like to see better than 110 dpi as well.

[craig @ Jun 6th 2007 9:39AM]

Hey Mac Dub. Maybe you'd better check your "Apple Insiders" source again on those weights. You're right, we can't believe all the rumors, especially yours.

[Mac Dub @ Jun 6th 2007 2:28PM]

Yeah yeah, whatever Craig. No need to get your knickers in a twist. Can't you humor a little light speculation? Anyway, the 15"ers arrived today and it pretty much looks exactly the same. Only thing is now, when you open the box you can hear Angels singing on high. It's really somethin'.

[craig @ Jun 6th 2007 2:03AM]

Oh yes, the "coiling" inside the adapter. ;-)

In light of the comment you are referring to, "all adaptors are extremely vulnerable to rough use since the coiling can easily change the voltage output.", you should be careful who you call a retard.

Nice comeback, though. You've cleared up all your bullshit.

[Mac Dub @ Jun 2nd 2007 5:42AM]

Craig, I have seen some of those bad screens about as well, the majority, though, are perfect. I do feel for you on the whole backlight thing. As far as the magsafe weakness goes, Apple addressed that about two months ago with a larger piece of plastic around the connector head.

I think what it comes down to here is not whether Apple cares or not about the final result of their machines, because if they were to loose all their switchers after round one what's the point? You need to take into account that Apple and the Macintosh are growing at such a rate, all while trying to push the mold, that quality control may have slipped a little in some areas. I have full confidence that these issues will be ironed out and before long we won't be seeing these such problems. Of course, I can't speak for anyone who's gonna drop their 17" MBP from 2 feet :-\

[craig @ Jun 2nd 2007 9:38AM]

I don't think it's possible for a company to "care" about quality in the same way that a person does, nor does it makes sense to me that Apple would concern itself with "switchers" any more than its repeat buyers. In any event, my MBP 15, which has had many problems, is not my first mac nor first Apple product. I've had 6 macs now starting with a G4 mini. Of those, 1 mac has been trouble free, 1 is only 2 weeks old, and 4 failed in their first 6 weeks. My iPod experiences are similarly bad.

Apple isn't having momentary quality issues cause by switchers, it has had quality problems for a long time. How many years did it take for OS X to become usable? Apple fixes performance issues with every release yet its networking performance is still terrible and my new quad Mac Pro beachballs all the time. Sad really, but Windows has gotten even worse.

"I have full confidence that these issues will be ironed out and before long we won't be seeing these such problems."

I don't. My MBP 15 was one of the first produced and it has had annoying power management problems since day one. I replaced it with a 17 more than a year later and it has the same problems. Apple not only fails to live up to its sterling "It just works" reputation, it allows bugs to exist in its product indefinitely. The magsafe connector has existed over a year, my new one looks the same to me even though you claim it's been fixed, and the strain relief issue has existed for years yet we're still dealing with it. I don't know where you get your misguided belief that Apple is ironing out momentary quality problems.

"Of course, I can't speak for anyone who's gonna drop their 17" MBP from 2 feet :-\"

I guess you can't and I don't understand what you mean by that. It's clear that you haven't worked at a large manufacturing company like Apple. I have and I know what goes on in development with respect to durability. My incident was not unusual and such accidents are expected. It was also not my 17 but my 15 and I never claimed it was an Apple quality problem, just highway robbery. I have a friend who damaged their Powerbook the same way and can't afford to fix it. I also have two friends with fried Powerbook powercords. Notebooks do get damaged, you know. Good engineering (and quality) means designing products that take these issues into account.

[nikster @ Jun 1st 2007 11:50PM]

'it's only $80 for the style... " LOL - so at Apple you actually get a beautiful adapter with mag-safe for $80 and at dell something thats a little less ugly than their standard for the same... who's overpriced now?

That said, I do think that MagSafe drawbacks - no 3rd party adapters, falls out sometimes - outweigh the benefits (no tossing off table?). Sort of like the Apple-proprietary DVI-plus-power display connectors they had for a while. Sometimes a small improvement is not worth going non-standard because there are benefits to following standards. Apple keeps pushing the envelope and is not afraid to break away from standards, and sometimes they get it wrong.

Dell on the other hand is proud of having no technical innovation - each to his own.

The display lawsuit is silly as well - I had a Powerbook with a flawed display. It had tiny horizontal stripes. Most people wouldn't see them and laugh at me when I complained. Apple replaced it under warranty. So don't tell me Apple is intentionally using sub-par displays. Being as it is that Apple replaces LCD screen for tiny defects that other laptop manufacturers will tell you are 'within specifications' that just wouldn't make any sense. It's just a ploy to make $ off Apple.

I tried replacing the LCD screen on my high-end $2K Acer for the exact same reason. I used the same test images, explained it the same way to the customer service. No dice. It's within specs and I have to live with it, they told me. 1:0 Apple.

My next laptop arrives June 5.

[craig @ Jun 2nd 2007 9:57AM]

"Dell on the other hand is proud of having no technical innovation - each to his own"

This is a ridiculous mischaracterization. Dell is a high volume manufacturer which sales heavily to big business. It cares just as much about appealing to its customer as Apple does. Dell doesn't place value on the "appearance of innovation" that Apple does and investment in inhouse expertise is counter to Dell's business model. Dell does invest in innovation but its innovation is not in places that you see nor does it attempt, for the most part, to advertise that it does.

"The display lawsuit is silly as well - I had a Powerbook with a flawed display. It had tiny horizontal stripes. Most people wouldn't see them and laugh at me when I complained. Apple replaced it under warranty. So don't tell me Apple is intentionally using sub-par displays. Being as it is that Apple replaces LCD screen for tiny defects that other laptop manufacturers will tell you are 'within specifications' that just wouldn't make any sense. It's just a ploy to make $ off Apple."

I agree that it's a ploy to make money, but you are mischaracterizating that lawsuit as well. The complaintants never said that Apple uses "sub-par displays", it is suing because Apple uses deceptive advertising. Apple uses the same displays as everyone else then claims that its displays are superior. It also advertises display capabilities that it does not actually provide. Big difference. I checked my MBPs for evidence they claim exists but did not see any. Don't discount that the problems they see are real. Your experience is not the universal experience of every Apple customer.

"I tried replacing the LCD screen on my high-end $2K Acer for the exact same reason. I used the same test images, explained it the same way to the customer service. No dice. It's within specs and I have to live with it, they told me. 1:0 Apple."

I didn't realize there was such a thing as a "high-end" Acer. My 17" backlight is the worst I've ever seen on a notebook yet it is not considered a defect by Apple and their offer to resolve that issue for me was no different than any PC maker.

[nikster @ Jun 4th 2007 8:12AM]

craig - Not nit-picking, but I intentionally said "technical innovation" - I am well aware that the Dell sales/inventory model was very innovative when it started. That was back when Dell was the invincible Behemoth of PC clones. Dell had very good quality products. And I remember distinctly Dell stating to analysts that they let others blaze new trails in technology and that they waste no money on R&D. So quite literally, Dell was indeed proud of having no technical innovation. Today the quality standards as well as service have gone way down, but that's a different story.

I should read up on the display woes of the 17" MBPs - when I looked at MBP screens in the store I mainly noticed that they are 3x brighter than my high end Acer, and yes, believe it or not Acer does make high end models ;)

http://global.acer.com/products/notebook/tm8210.htm

[MrSteve007 @ Jun 2nd 2007 1:11PM]

Whatever, Apple is notorious to being months behind everyone else for at least 20% price premium. I just got my santa-rosa based ASUS G1-s. It completely blows away any of the macbook pro line for way less money. 2.2 santa rosa chip, 2 gig ram, every wireless spec, 160 gig hard drive, high res screen (with zero dead pixel warranty), 2nd OLED screen, and lightscribe drive for under $2,000 shipped. Oh, and the nvidia 8600m video card that blows away everything else before it. So yeah, specs matter if you actually want to do some work, or play games. Which macs can't do.

[Tii @ Jun 3rd 2007 11:19PM]

An possibility for a SSD upgrade for these new models?

[craig @ Jun 6th 2007 9:50AM]

nikster, you're paraphrasing of a "recollection" of something *someone* at Dell supposedly said to analysts does not equate to Dell being "proud of having no technical innovation". Dell is *proud* of its business model, happy that it spends relatively little on technical development compared to competitors, but it would be more than happy if that expenditure produced technical innovation. To give you an example of technical innovation that Dell did contribute, Dell invented the memory SIMM and it also drove the industry to develop SATA. The appearance of innovation is not something Dell tries to achieve, unlike Apple.

If a MBP 17" is 3x brighter than your Acer, your Acer isn't "high end". The MBP 17" is nice, I have one, but it doesn't walk on water. I seriously doubt you can make such an observation by walking into a store and stating it so sheds light on your comments about Dell. Perhaps you should try to be a bit more objective.