TiVo fears new open source license will harm business

As if TiVo honestly needed any more reasons to fear for its life, it looks like the forthcoming version of the General Public License could actually do more "harm to its business." It the firm's most recent regulatory filing, it warned that the third version of the aforementioned license "would prohibit manufacturers of consumer appliances that use open source software from implementing technical measures designed to prevent user modifications," essentially giving the TiVo hackers of the world even fewer hoops to jump through. TiVo fears that if GPLv3 is widely adopted, it may be "unable to incorporate future enhancements to the GNU / Linux operating system into its software," which would obviously affect the outfit in a negative fashion. Notably, Novell has also spoken up about how this latest document could "disrupt its Linux distribution partnership with Microsoft," but unless something major happens rather hastily, the Free Software Foundation reportedly expects GPLv3 to be published sometime this summer.

[Sully @ Jun 4th 2007 6:39AM]

This is old news. Nothing says Linux will adopt GPLv3. Torvalds has said he does not care for it.

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS3632456744.html

[Jeff @ Jun 4th 2007 7:11AM]

Come on, Sully. "Old news"? You're linking to an article published in *February*.

Since then, the final draft of GPLv3 has been released, and it addresses Torvalds' concerns. Nobody has *ever* thought there would never be a GPL3 - they're not going through this exercise for nothing. There will be a GPL3; the only question is the form that it's going to take.

As for TiVo, this is the sound of the world's smallest violin playing. They're not saying they *can't* make updates, they're saying they *choose not to* because to do so would mean that anybody else could see the source code for those updates and make further changes themselves. Boo-hoo - you're using open source software, TiVo. You want to lock down your system, switch to friggin' Windows. Then watch as half your subscribers cancel because your boxes suddenly stop being rock solid reliable. And watch as MS dictates to you what features you can and can't include. You use open source software because it lets *you* have the freedom that you want - part of the deal is that your users have the same freedom.

Let me put it more clearly: your business model is based on the work of others who put their hearts and souls into developing Linux. If they license their work to you under certain terms, then you must accept that license. You don't get to use other peoples' copyrighted software without any conditions.

[Dror @ Jun 4th 2007 8:06AM]

Jeff, it was published in February 2006! As you said, a lot has changed (in the last year and a half).

[Erick Ballard @ Jun 4th 2007 8:20AM]

Hey Jeff,

Grow up. TiVo chose Linux because it was stable, did what the neede it to do, and the current GPL suited thier needs. Also, I believe you are incorrect about if they will be able to do more software updates. TiVo's business model requires them to have a good relationship with copywrite holders, and now with the series 3, CableLabs. Requireing them to alow the public more access to modifying the software would jepordize that relationship.

[Brian Erst @ Jun 4th 2007 10:54AM]

Erick,

You forget that media companies aren't the only "copyright holders". The developers of Linux and the various GNU toolsets are copyright holders too - of the Linux and GNU software. It's just as important for Tivo to respect the copyrights of its technology providers as its entertainment providers - more so, as the tech underlies their entire business. You could theoretically have a (somewhat useless) TiVo that didn't support DRM (for watching YouTube or other online media), but you can't have one without software.

One of the motivations for the creation of GPLv3 was specifically TiVo's use of GNU tools to create locked-in software. Lookup "tivoization" if you want to see the arguments against it.

Finally, whatever version of Linux and GNU that TiVo is currently using is copyrighted under GPLv2 and will remain so licensed FOREVER. All TiVo is losing is the ability to get new GPLv3-licensed code or patches - nothing prevents them from using and maintaining the version of software they're currently running. That's the beauty of open-source - since TiVo has the full source code (and has modified it in the past), nothing really has changed.

If TiVo doesn't like the fact that a new graphics driver (that they get for free) is GPLv3 and thus can't be used by TiVo unless they abide by its copyright, boo-freakin-hoo. Write your own driver, hire a firm to do it for you or bite the bullet and agree to the terms of the license.

Believe me, TiVo undoubtedly licenses other software and tools to build the TiVo interface that have license restrictions far more onerous than GPL - they probably use tools where they have no access to source code at all and have to hope that the vendor keeps developing it or even still exists in 3 years.

[andy @ Jun 4th 2007 11:20AM]

@ Erick Ballard


While I fully agree with your statements, I have to ask, "What relationship with CableLabs?" The conspicuous absence of Tivo-to-go and Multi-room-viewing on my S3 says that cableLabs isn't doing anything but holding the S3 back (i.e., keeping it from implementing S2 features).

I anxiously await the cracking of the cablecard.

[mathew @ Jun 4th 2007 12:32PM]

The FSF has always explained clearly exactly why the GPL is the way it is. TiVo decided to use a legal loophole to take away people's freedom to modify the code on their TiVos and distribute the modifications for other people to run on their TiVos.

In other words, TiVo deliberately attempted to violate the entire purpose of the license. Now the loophole is being closed. Poor TiVo, they won't be able to leech from the free software community any more.

[mathew @ Jun 4th 2007 12:33PM]

And here's the link that was stripped from my previous comment. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

[MegaZone @ Jun 4th 2007 2:59PM]

I commented on this issue the other day: http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/06/03/tivo-and-gplv3/

It is much ado about nothing. SEC filings are designed to be conservative if not outright pessimistic. Companies list any and all potential risks to cover their asses in case something happens, so investors can't sue them for not warning them about something.

The GPLv3 will be published, that's always been a given. While Linus has softened on it from his initial "No way in hell" stance to "I'll consider it" of late, even if he wants to move the kernel to v3 it will not happen quickly. Since the v2 and v3 licenses are both 'greedy', to move the kernel over *all* code would need to be moved to v3. That means contacting all of the contributors and getting their approval - that's individuals, corporations, etc. If anyone doesn't agree, then the code would need to be removed and replaced with new v3 licensed code.

It will be a long and painful process, if it is done at all.

TiVo uses other GPL licensed software, and they may run into issues with individual packages that more to v3, but they can keep using v2 or replace them with other software.

And, even if the Linux kernel goes v3, they have other options. They could develop a way to keep content owners happy and still satisfy the GPLv3. They could keep using the v2 code indefinitely. They can move to another platform - and it needn't be Windows. The BSD license is quite favorable towards commercial usage. FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc, are possible platforms. They could even move to a commercial embedded kernel like VxWorks. Or they could migrate to a Java platform based on their OCAP implementation.

In the end, it really doesn't matter much, if at all. There is no major risk to TiVo's existence.