Blu-ray: Actually, we are the top in European sales

The HD DVD Promotional Group recently claimed that 74% of the market share for European high-definition DVD players is held by HD DVD, but the Blu-ray Disc Association points out that they conveniently "forgot" to include PS3s and PC drives in their count. Including those puts Blu-ray in the lead instead, with almost 95% of hardware sales. HD DVD lobbyists contend that most who buy game consoles don't even use them for watching high-def movies, while everyone who bought an HD DVD player will do exactly that. The fact that the PS3 is still basically cheaper than many of the standalone high-def players (Blu-ray or HD DVD) means it's not exactly honest to discount them completely either. All we know is that the format war continues, but as long as prices continue to fall, it's tough for the average consumer to complain about that.

[steve @ Jul 16th 2007 1:20PM]

Good, I hope they fight. Let them fight till the bitter end, until someone has slashed prices so much that it would be a no brainier. Then we can finally have an end to all this silliness.

[Alan Strangis @ Jul 16th 2007 1:43PM]

Couldn't agree more. I don't think it's going to stop until after the 2007 holiday season though, so until then...

[Big @ Jul 16th 2007 1:52PM]

What fool couldn't have predicted that BLURAY would trump HD DVD?

Firstly, the potential storage capacity of BluRay blew HDDDVD AWAY purely on paper.

Furthermore, it was an easy guess that PS3 would be the first Blu Ray player in most households. I remember back when PS2 was released how in Japan it was carried in stores that didn't traditional carry video game consoles MERELY BECAUSE IT WAS THE CHEAPEST DVD PLAYER ON THE MARKET.

Now with PS3's launch price of $499 and $599 it was still the cheapest Blu Ray player on the market and the best possible choice for an HD player due to its Dolby 7.1 TrueHD and its 1080P scaling.


For these scumbag sales analysts to "forget" to count PS3 as a Blu Ray player only shows the corruption, stupidity and fanboyism in the industry.

The only thing that could have possibly saved HDDVD was IF MICROSOFT HAD INCLUDED THE DRIVE IN THE ELITE. Funny thing is, Microsoft is the #1 company backing HDDVD and they didn't even trust it enough to include it in their system. PITIFUL.


I hope HD DVD dies a painful, bloody death.

I hope HDDVD is CHAINSAWED IN HALF WITH A LANCER ASSAULT RIFLE.

[Chris Derry @ Jul 16th 2007 5:42PM]

Oh my GOD I think that you MAY have a point THERE.

[Serengeti @ Jul 16th 2007 10:49PM]

@Big

You know you have HDDVD to thank for the low price of the PS3, right? Do you really want the only competition for Sony's juggernaut to be chainsawed in half, and die a bloody, painful death?? I mean... you know these guys really believe in their product, right? And have spouses and children to feed... Chainsawed in half?? Wow. Thats how you thank a company for ensuring that one company doesn't control the entire market? HDDVD was adopted by an association of technical standards bodies and companies... which means that no one will control HDDVD, but hey... thats fine, lets give Sony whatever they want, as long as their competition is chainsawed in half.

As above said: YOU MIGHT make a GOOD POINT there. GLAD YOU'RE so angry ABOUT THIS.

[Fatima @ Jul 16th 2007 1:23PM]

I always knew Blu-Ray would win. If i said this last year, i would be ripped in half by xbots.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Jul 17th 2007 2:45PM]

> I always knew Blu-Ray would win.

True. They are winning in Yuroppe.

Like 2 to 1. Really. 2 BDs v. 1 HDDVD.

Stats look like:
- 2 BDs were sold to guy who fled detox.
- 1 HDDVD was sold to collector looking for something new to decorate walls.

^_^

[Rick wilson @ Jul 16th 2007 1:27PM]

Oh NOS! Since some blu-ray products can do MORE than just watch movies, they can't be counted sayz HDDVD?!

Since blu-ray has the ability to burn 50GB of data on your computer as well as watch moviez, it can't be counted as a player?

Also the PS3 games are on blu-ray, I WATCH those! I also watch blu-ray moviez on it toooo! look out hddvd-l00zrs, blu-ray can do lotz in addition to watch moviez!

[Paul @ Jul 16th 2007 1:58PM]

Ya know, if you hadn't been trying to sound so stupid I might have plus'ed your comment...

[Dan @ Jul 16th 2007 5:08PM]

You're too generous. I wouldn't have.

[Rick wilson @ Jul 17th 2007 3:43PM]

just trying to get the attn of hd-dvd lovrz. they MUST realize, only having one movie company exclusively backing them means they won't have most of the movies released.. I mean come on!

[Nate @ Jul 16th 2007 1:30PM]

Who the hell wants to support Sony in anything they do? They have constantly screwed consumers, yet some people continue to buy there products. That is the definition of stupidity.

[Blake Kachman @ Jul 16th 2007 1:55PM]

I hear this kind of garbage from people all the time about how Sony screws consumers and about how "cheap" (quality) their product is or how no one ever buys Sony next-gen formats because they're too outlandish and expensive.
What everyone neglects to remember is that Sony has a Japanese market as well, and it happens to do very well, and the consumers are very proud of it. As far as quality there is no question that Sony makes a quality product weather you choose to except it or not. I for one love the PS3 but find the price like many hard to swallow at this time, however, it doesn't mean that I'll never buy a PS3, it's just a matter of time and cost. The Bravia HD TV's and Displays are some of the best I've ever seen, hands down, closely followed by Pioneer (another japanese company).
Don't bash Sony because you don't like their product, it's not a question of quality or price or screwing their consumers, they're a buisness and they're going to do their best to please their market while still trying to profit at the same time.

[Stephen @ Jul 16th 2007 2:01PM]

Actually EVERY Sony product i have owned has worked PERFECTLY. These include a PS3, PSP, DVD burner, headphones, and untold other devices. The only Sony issues i can think of in recent history were there batteries, root kit, and incessant love of proprietary stuff. Call me a fanboy if you want, but Sony has YET to screw me over. So i can only hope you have a real reason for such hatred of a corporation.

[Big @ Jul 16th 2007 2:01PM]

I love SONY products. They've made some of the hottest shit the industry has ever seen (for its time) only to be copied by the Korean companies such as Samsung and the nameless, dime-a-dozen Chinese companies.

Sure SONY products are pricey and suffer from compatibility and some design issues, but when it comes to spending my money for quality I TRUST SONY PRODUCTS.

I'll buy their headphones, SUBWOOFERS ( I have two 12's) and their Class D car Amplifiers before I'll even look at the competition. SONY AUDIO and VIDEO has always been fantastic.

[Nate @ Jul 16th 2007 2:07PM]

The last thing Sony innovated was the playstation, but nintendo came up with the idea but never pursued it. If your buying 2 subs for your car, you must be in high school still. Shouldn't you be in school?

[mike @ Jul 16th 2007 2:57PM]

"If your buying 2 subs for your car, you must be in high school still. Shouldn't you be in school?"

I don't get it, are you saying the only 2 subs is intro? dude you must have like 30 by now then i guess.

[DJK @ Jul 16th 2007 2:57PM]

Just because something doesn't breakdown doesn't mean it's quality. Most car stereo experts would agree that the Sony line of car audio is sub par, not because it breaks down, but because it just sucks in every other category. Their Xplod line is an example of a big company slapping their name (and premium price) on something crappy and assuming people will be awed by the brand name.

[Dan @ Jul 16th 2007 5:12PM]

Nate sez: "The last thing Sony innovated was the playstation, but nintendo came up with the idea but never pursued it. If your buying 2 subs for your car, you must be in high school still. Shouldn't you be in school?"

Summer break. Didn't you notice the rise in excessively low Sun Fires passing by your home?

[imrazor @ Jul 16th 2007 6:25PM]

It seems that everyone responding to Nate has conveniently forgotten the Sony rootkit debacle. You know, the one where merely inserting a Sony music CD into your PC would install a lovely piece of spyware that made your computer vulnerable to viruses and hackers. See here for details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal

I won't be buying any Sony products any time soon...

[Victor @ Jul 16th 2007 1:31PM]

My Ps3's primary use is that of a blu-ray player...

It's not like sony has any good games on it yet. Until then my primary gaming platforms will remain... everything else.

[Ken @ Jul 16th 2007 1:40PM]

It's not like I care about this format war. I just rip the disc and throw it in a closet anyways. It's not going to change for whatever disc format comes out next.

[jilie @ Jul 16th 2007 1:42PM]

a comment to the previous article "Switched On: TCPC" by Ross Rubin
couldn't resist to advertize at the end of the article?

[Juice @ Jul 18th 2007 3:52AM]

Who cares, once Little Big Planet comes out all this will be forgotten. ALL OF THIS.

[John K @ Jul 16th 2007 2:00PM]

In no way is the PS3 cheapest HD player. There are multiple HD-DVD players that are cheaper, and Sony even has a BD player that's cheaper...

[Big @ Jul 16th 2007 4:46PM]

"If your buying 2 subs for your car, you must be in high school still."

I've heard some stupid comments but your's takes the cake.

What the fuck difference does buying audio products make? Why don't you go hang yourself.

auto-erotic-asphyxia.

[tekdroid @ Jul 16th 2007 2:08PM]

both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have to live in a world where:

1)the PC is fast becoming the centre of the universe
2) the world is more connected with faster broadband
3) people have a multitude of storage options. Sure, a bit thin on the removable opticals, but storage choices nonetheless - with far more storage to come, not to mention even more efficient codecs.
4) 'internet codecs' (for want of a better expression) are challenging the heavy hitters living in their CE cocoons

DVD had no such challenges when it was estabilishing itself in the market.

Good luck HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. You'll need it. Especially with all that DRM.

Neither will win anything like DVD has won.

[SimbaDogg @ Jul 16th 2007 3:46PM]

Storage is one of the chief reasons i've been looking for blu ray to come down in price. I've been slowing waiting for the prices of bluray burners to come down in price, and though i haven't looked in a while, i saw a philips for like 480 in the Frys circular the other day. For those people who say that storage is useless...look @ it this way.
I have a lot of TV shows on my comp, i have: 24 (seasons 1-6, 50 gig), 30 rock (4 gig), darkwing duck (complete series, 14 GB), heroes (8 GB), house (S1-3, 31 GB), Lost (S3, 9GB), The Office (S1-3, 11 GB) and my prized possession X-Men the complete animated series (the original one from fox 6 GB)...
thats just some of the stuff that i still have on my comp that i haven't burned...if i were to put all of this on blu ray discs, three total discs. If i were to put it on Dual layer DVD discs...16.

i know the discs themselves are QUITE a bit more, but as prices come down...it will start to become less and less of an issue with me, and with others i'm sure. being able to store all the seasons of 24 in xvid/divx on one disc would be great...rather than using 6 discs...

[kaztm @ Jul 16th 2007 2:11PM]

Objective and informative...nice writing, Erik!

[John B @ Jul 16th 2007 2:31PM]

This is really sad. We should label this the "HiDef Sandbox Fight" and see which one goes crying home to mommy first. It's exactly because of this childish "Am Not / Are Too" fighting that I refuse to migrate from standard DVD until this is settled one way or another.

[Brett @ Jul 16th 2007 2:33PM]

I bought my HD DVD player for 399 and got 3 free movies w/it. I don't think there is a PS3 that cheap even after the latest price slash. I bought it b/c my dvd player crapped out. I rent the movies from netflix so i don't care who wins but i'm not gonna watch movies on a game console - the kids won't let me near it.

[Spare_Change @ Jul 16th 2007 2:43PM]

Actually, I bought a 360+HD-DVD and PS3 for less than both standalone players or significantly less than a combo (waiting LG...). Whatever one shakes down, I could care less. They both look and sound great!

[WhackMushroom @ Jul 16th 2007 2:47PM]

all we could do for a while there was watch hi-def movies .. give up HD-DVD .. your finished.

[Cru Jones @ Jul 16th 2007 2:47PM]

The HD-DVD Promotional Group is dead wrong. I bought the PS3 for the Blu-Ray Player and use it 99% of the time for that. I also know a lot of other people that bought it for the same reason. But it doesn't agree with their propaganda so of course they omit that data.

[AtariFX @ Jul 16th 2007 2:58PM]

No offense to everyone here but I believe the avg consumer isn't ready for another format. DVD was such a HUGE difference to VHS but to the simple man who's not gadget crazy or looking at each pixel on his 56" HD LCD, I don't think most people care yet.

[Tyson @ Jul 16th 2007 5:12PM]

I agree actually with this which is why I own about three blu-ray discs and I haven't both any more. I was looking for the real breakthrough difference and I even bout a number 42 in HD TV but no it wasn't that great. Joe Sho consumer unless he is being persuaded but a good sales person and rhetoric probably does not care and is going to stick with DVD which you can get for like 4 for $20 used than buy 1 $35 new format disc for experience. When I really think about it my PS3 is actually 1/2 way across the country at my other hose because I used it so little. $600 1 game that was worth while and not on the 360 and 3 disc...I suppose you can say it was just a cheap Blu-Ray player...

[sgaffney @ Jul 17th 2007 7:25AM]

Actually I disagree with this. My girlfriend is a not in to technology / gadgets at all but when she saw the difference between a DVD and the BluRay disc she was very impressed. Thanks to upscaling on the PS3 our DVD player is only used for the surround sound. Everyone I know who has a PS3 uses it for BluRay / DVDs too.
I find it hilarious that people keep going on about the price of the PS3 and how it's over priced for a games console blah blah. IT'S NOT JUST A GAMES CONSOLE PEOPLE ! It does so much more. I have linked to myy mdia hard i've and stream music / pics / videos from it. I watch films on it (DVD and BluRay). As Sony keeps updating the firmware I believe the internet functionality will expand. I'm holding out for Skype via the PS3 :-)
I'm not for or against anything but judge everything on it's own merit and so far the PS3 has proven itself and it's price easily. People, get a life and worry about more important things than whether Sony is more Evil than MS or vice versa.
Live in the now. Formats evolve, improve, die out. Make your choice and be happy with it and let others make theirs.

[daniel @ Jul 16th 2007 3:25PM]

surely the amount of actual discs sold is much more important than the hardware figures

[Tyson @ Jul 16th 2007 5:12PM]

I actually own a PS3 and while I do have about 2 or 3 Blu-Ray movies including the one that game with it I really have to say I don't use it to watch movies they are right. I think the whole thing is ridiculous and I love Sony but they suck at playing fair with their products so I hope the HD-DVD wins. Otherwise the day they stop making HD-DVDs the and Sony owns it all they will just up the prices make exclusive unreasonable deals horde all the world money so they can fight Nintendo on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. Lets be honest about this the HD-DVD is probably outselling Blu-ray for those who buy movies and the Blu-ray is winning probably when it comes to the overall number of households with capacity.

[newgalactic @ Jul 16th 2007 5:10PM]

...I don't know anybody who owns a stand alone BD or HDDVD player...and only one guy who owns a PS3...and he's unemployed.

[Broo @ Jul 16th 2007 5:54PM]

Does anyone remember the successors to CDs; SACD and DVD-Audio? both were formats that would revolutionize the market with their better audio quality and technical superiority crap- and then MP3 came along and proved that most people don't really care about the quality- just the price and availability.

I think both BluRay and HD DVD sales have just about peaked and they will start declining as more services like Amazon, Microsoft, NetFlix and Joost offer video-on-demand; all we need are more appliances like the AppleTV or TivoCast.

[KC @ Jul 16th 2007 6:43PM]

@Broo, and I think this is where Sony could really do well. If they can figure out a way to sell multi-channel music and HD movies from an online PS3 store... that would be the killer.

[Serengeti @ Jul 16th 2007 11:00PM]

I'd agree with you if it weren't for the obvious problems with storing purchased material on a temporary device like AppleTV or Xbox 360. What happens when your box dies, or you decide to upgrade? Do you think you will be able to keep those movies, somehow??

Besides, as it is now, both Apple and Microsoft don't provide full 1080 (i or p -- you can't tell the difference, don't lie to me). Until they offer 1080 and the ability to back up your purchased movies, I'm not buying.

[nonamo @ Jul 16th 2007 7:45PM]

I know engadget is late and normally wrong with news, so you guys probably havent heard that Toshiba are going to be selling $99 HD-DVD players pretty soon (within the next month).
I wonder if that will change the sales figures at all?

[sypen @ Jul 16th 2007 10:16PM]

Dude i know you usually late and wrong with news. but engadget has a story about this. and yeah only sold at an expo where you have to buy a ticket and im sure will be in short supply. How that will change the sales figures? Errrr probably by a few hundered units, lol. Why do you read engadget if you consider it late and incorrect?

[nonamo @ Jul 17th 2007 7:15AM]

dunno really. i suppose i find it entertaining reading biased reviews and comments made by biggest fanboys on the planet :P

[Priapus @ Jul 17th 2007 9:09AM]

The biggest fanboys on the planet demand details of this amazing deal. Where can we buy this mythical $99 player? Most of us are still waiting for a (proper) $199 deal.

[nonamo @ Jul 17th 2007 10:10AM]

ah thats right... fanboys dont know how to use google :P http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/07/toshiba_plannin_1.html
I wish it wasnt a limited offer... HD-DVD is the better + cheaper format imho

[John JD3 @ Jul 16th 2007 9:17PM]

Nonamo, they are only selling those at an expo or some shit. The entrance to the expo is going to be around 100 bucks or so I've heard....

[nonamo @ Jul 17th 2007 7:33AM]

Thats not what i meant. i am aware of the expo and i think it was $200 entery fee. what i mean is if Xbox HD-DVD is $150, it wont be long before we see $100-200 players.