TiVo HD DVR is the newest Series3, TiVoToGo coming back

We got some very reliable information from an inside source on TiVo's newest DVR -- and guess what, it's called the TiVo HD (good luck trying to trademark that one, TiVo). Granted, we've heard most of this already, but our sources confirmed the TiVo HD will launch with a 160GB drive (or, as TiVo likes to put it, 160 hours SD / 20 hours HD), two CableCARD tuners, and possibly also an ATSC tuner. We can also further confirm it won't have THX certification, frontal display, or the Glo remote, but the $300 price tag is set, so it won't pinch the pocketbook quite so hard. Supposedly it's launching this week, possibly as early as tomorrow. Given that the cheapest box TiVo sells is still $100 (or sometimes free), it stands to reason this will be the new mid-range model, but from what we understand TiVo is on its way to phasing out the Series2 brand entirely.

Also in TiVo news, we understand the eSATA port will be enabled for external storage in short order, and Best Buy will have the retail exclusive on the external drive, which will supposedly be a small striped RAID array. Oh, and big time bonus for current users: TiVoToGo is on track to finally be re-enabled on Series3 boxes, but there's a fairly huge caveat: SD shows only, HD shows will have to stay safely stowed on the box. Bummer. Sweet, TiVo more or less confirmed HD will be making it in the next TiVoToGo release!

[Stake @ Jul 23rd 2007 2:39PM]

The question is, will they offer a lifetime subscription transfer for existing Series2 owners? I'd jump on that even if there was farily sizable transfer fee.

[Grammar freak @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:01PM]

The token "lifetime subscription" comment strikes before I can even make a witty comment about how someone is going to leave it.

[Kevin @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:59PM]

I completely agree. So far there have been two offers allowing Series2 lifetime owners to transfer their service to other boxes. I hope this marks the third. Judging by prior offers something on the lines of $500 is probably likely, but I would hope for more like $400. My only concern is that because of the recent transfer offer to a TiVo DT, TiVo might think that this is too soon to make another offer.

[MegaZone @ Jul 24th 2007 3:30AM]

TiVo told me they're not offering a lifetime transfer to the TiVo HD at this time.

[paul @ Jul 23rd 2007 2:45PM]

As a tester of this device (and therefore under the NDA) I can't say much about this. I can say though, with some conviction, that there is no way this device will launch this week as the software just isn't ready yet.

[NHAnimator @ Jul 23rd 2007 2:55PM]

So much for the NDA.

[bfdtv @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:54PM]

My understanding is that the box will launch with an older version of the software, not necessarily the one now on testers' boxes.

[Matthew G Smith @ Jul 23rd 2007 2:52PM]

is it finally time for me to pick this up and risk the wrath of Comcast's cablecards? I think so..

[p-diddy @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:07PM]

I wouldn't jump so quick. If you're in the North East, Comcast is supposed to be rolling out their (moto?) cable boxes with TiVo software in August. Why buy and pay a monthly fee when you can just pay a monthly fee.

AFAIK, Boston is first but I would expect most of the NE will follow soon afterward.

And to the guy asking about lifetime subscriptions: I have no source other than hearsay posted every time a story like this is posted, but it ain't gonna happen. I know the whole point was to pay up front and never have to worry about it again, but I think all you lifetime subscribers have got your money's worth by now.

-p-

[Dan @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:13PM]

"...but I think all you lifetime subscribers have got your money's worth by now."

What part of 'lifetime' don't you understand, p-diddy? The money's worth argument doesn't hold water. As long as I am alive and kicking, I shouldn't have to pay for the Tivo service. That is what I, and all of the other lifetime subscribers, signed up for...and I expect there could be a breach-of-contract issue, if Tivo understands any differently.

[Matt E. @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:42PM]

"And to the guy asking about lifetime subscriptions: I have no source other than hearsay posted every time a story like this is posted, but it ain't gonna happen. I know the whole point was to pay up front and never have to worry about it again, but I think all you lifetime subscribers have got your money's worth by now."

I'm a Series 1 SVR2000 owner. Everytime a new version of the tivo comes out, I always get an email from TiVo, with an "exclusive offer" to switch my lifetime sub over to their newest DVR. Since I have no real compelling reason to switch and my Series 1 is still going strong after several large HD transplants, CacheCard/Turbonet, TivoWeb, etc. Yeah, my lifetime sub has paid for itself over and over again, but I did pay for it. So I expect to keep it until my TiVo smokes. If TiVo expects me to upgrade, that's something they'll need to deal with.

[p-diddy @ Jul 23rd 2007 5:05PM]

Dan, this has been stated and restated to death. TiVo's policy is the lifetime of the unit, not your lifetime, so the "I hope they transfer lifetime subscriptions" posts are ridiculous.

[p-diddy @ Jul 23rd 2007 5:10PM]

And so we are clear: I totally support Matt's view. You pay for the life of the unit. If your series 1 TiVo is still kicking in 2029, then you, my friend, made a very smart choice because you SHOULDN'T have to pay for service for that unit. TiVo took their chances making the contract and they reap what they sew.

BUT, it kills me when I see people want to transfer their lifetime subs to new boxes every time a new TiVo machine is announced. It just comes across as milking.

*shrug*

-p-

[Matt E. @ Jul 23rd 2007 5:26PM]

@Dan: Actually the lifetime subscription does NOT mean for your lifetime. It means for the lifetime of original TiVo PVR/DVR device you purchased the lifetime for. I.E.: You could sell your TiVo, lifetime subscription included, to someone else.

[Mr.Ortiz @ Jul 23rd 2007 5:40PM]

"As long as I am alive and kicking, I shouldn't have to pay for the Tivo service. That is what I, and all of the other lifetime subscribers, signed up for..."

I'm fairly certain it was for the life of the box, not of the customer. The only reason they've been so generous with upgrades is that they can't really afford to lose customers (even if you're not paying, they like to think you're evangelizing).

[Pete @ Jul 23rd 2007 7:18PM]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy this over waiting for Comcast to roll out its TiVo service. I don't know when that is even going to happen in my area. Also, the Comcast/TiVo service will have a Comcast-style guide. I like TiVo's style guide rather than the grid. Finally, the Moto boxes are utter crap. Are all of those issues due 100% to software? I'm on my 4th shitty, shitty Comcast HD DVR. I hate these fucking things. The hardware might be problematic. How many times do I have to lose all my recorded shows, scheduled recordings, sound, playback issues...the list is endless. It is the single worst consumer electronics device I have ever owned by FAR. I have been waiting for an affordable HD Tivo to come along. Anyone who would choose the garbage Moto Comcast HD simply does not know or understand that there is a far superior alternative. I will gladly pay the difference in price.

[p-diddy @ Jul 23rd 2007 8:06PM]

Pete, I'm going to disagree with you a LITTLE. I currently have a Moto box that, while I do think is sluggish and generally sucky, I have been fortunate enough to have no problems with. I've heard of the problems you had, I just haven't experienced them. And, counter to your point, I DO know the alternatives because I used to have a TiVo. It broke my heart when I realized after moving into my apartment that the wiring was A/B cable intended and my analog series 2 TiVo couldn't take both inputs. So I gave it to my dad and resigned myself to moto and luckily for me it has generally worked out.

I'm going to wait to see what the TiVo software on Moto does. If it is in fact just a program guide and not the actual recording/user interface software, I may jump on the TiVo HD. $800 plus fee for the first one was crazy expensive, but I can deal with $300.

Maybe.

-p-

[andy @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:10PM]

So for someone like me who uses their S3 to record OTA HD, all of this good stuff is totally non-applicable. great.

I'm really considering getting into tivo hacking over this whole "nontransfer" thing.


BTW, "TiVo HD" is an arbitrary or fanciful mark that identifies the source of goods. It is therefore a trademark at common law. It is likely to cause consumer confusion with the usual "TiVo" mark, but they can federally register the new "TiVo HD" mark because it is commonly owned with the "TiVo" mark. In other words, from the moment they use the mark, they already have trademark rights, and they might even already have preliminary rights, because, I'll bet that if check the federal register, you'll find "TiVo HD" under an intent to use registration.

[p-diddy @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:27PM]

somebody's a trademark attorney....

-p-

[Cosimoto @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:28PM]

No chance this will support DirectTV is there. Their Tivo is really in desperate need of an update.

[George @ Jul 25th 2007 1:29PM]

Boy, that's the truth. I just got my Directv DVR High Def machine & it likes to "freeze" up in this 90 degree weather we have in the South. Wish I had my Hughes 250 back with its ability to record high def but DirecTV says it won't receive the new High Def channels they'll be sending in Sept. Wish DirecTV & Tivo could work something out.

[Jon @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:28PM]

I hope enabling TivoToGo enables playing content in the other direction as well. One of the things I use my Tivo Series 2 for the most is to stream DivX files from my PC to the television using TivoDotNet or another software. Easy to setup and it can handle handle fileformat or codec I've tried.

[Kevin @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:00PM]

Agree, as a pyTivo developer I have become addicted to this feature. There are users out there with Series3 boxes that can use the "TiVo Come Back" feature already. Apparently some TiVo rep made a mistake in upgrading their service and it remained active. So I think that is a good indication that we will see this feature in the future on Series3/HD boxes.

[Justin @ Jul 23rd 2007 3:42PM]

I hope TiVoToGo includes multi-room viewing too.

[Chuchi @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:07PM]

I second that. It would also be nice to stream my HD programming from one box to another in my home rather than record 2 versions (including SD) of everything. It's pretty sad that there are so many ways to watch tv on your terms these days (Tivo, IPTV, PMP's, etc) and my programming is stuck in one place because "the man" decided that he can't figure out how to keep HD programming from being pirated on discs, so why not just hold it back from doing anything but playing back in the first device that recorded it. DOWN WITH DRM!!!

[Travis @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:30PM]

What part of "Lifetime of the BOX" do you not understand? You didn't signup for free Tivo service forever. You signed up for service on THAT DVR. Period.

The fact that Tivo has allowed you to transfer it ever is a gift from them in excess of your contract with them. Get it?

[pedro @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:20PM]

Dan, lifetime service has always been lifetime service for the BOX, not for TiVo. They have always made that clear. From time to time they have opened the opportunity to transfer that, but there is no inalienable right to service transfer.

[Wilson @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:40PM]

This is 100% correct.

[james @ Jul 23rd 2007 4:38PM]

Count me in! The Series 3 was just too expensive. I'm 98% sure I'll drop the $300 for the TivoHD. My series 1 (sony) was activated in May 2000! That makes my box 7 years old. I can't believe it. I wonder if this version will last half that long.

[James Sanford @ Jul 23rd 2007 6:34PM]

Anyone know what size the striped RAID will be? 1tb?

[Matt H @ Jul 23rd 2007 7:18PM]

For a series2 and series3 owner... I just want them to add Vista support for Tivo Desktop. I am kicking myself for upgrading last month without noticing that there was no Tivo support. And no the PVRBlog hack didn't work for me...

[alf @ Jul 23rd 2007 8:47PM]

When are they going to have a special offer for those of us who have Series 1 boxes and who have never paid for service? I have dutifully used my TiVo for 6 years with only the manual recording feature. I deserve some kind of lifetime credit for that. Waaaah! Waaaah! Waaaah!

[Louis Gray @ Jul 23rd 2007 9:53PM]

Of note, the site is still running ads promoting the new TiVo HD as Sharp. Savvy. Sweet.

Links 404 at https://www3.tivo.com/store/boxdetails.do?boxName=180hourtivohd&boxsku=R65216

[Tom @ Jul 23rd 2007 11:08PM]

Now, I'm curious about the official eSATA enable, since I've been an "unofficial" user since the hack was discovered.

What needs to be answereed is what is meant by "Best Buy will have the retail exclusive on the external drive"?

1) When eSATA is enabled only the Best But drives will work, disabling the drive I have now attached?

-or-

2) Best Buy will be the exclusive retailer for TiVo branded eSATA drives.

Anyone have info on this?

[sqweak @ Jul 25th 2007 1:41AM]

I don't have any inside info, but I *have* watched how they've dealt with similar situations over the last 8 years.

USB ether and then WiFi were both originally released as backdoors before tivo finally began officially enabling them (via osd) and then eventually selling hardware (tivo wifi adapter).

I don't think sata will be any different. The current backdoor is available for the devoted/experimental, next the software will enable it for the public at large, and eventually the tivo branded drive will be released to make it extremely simple for those not comfortable buying their own drive & enclosure/worried about compatabilityetc.

[andy @ Jul 23rd 2007 11:27PM]

I am wondering what the differences are between a tivo and dvd recorder with hard drive like.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882641225
which I have been looking at.
Also since the phillips is a one time fee where the tivo your locked in. Any light on the subject would be appreciated.

[p-diddy @ Jul 24th 2007 3:01AM]

Andy, what TiVo does really well: The software just works and makes smart decisions. I never had my TiVo crash, or mysteriously delete things, or tape over anything. If a program's time changes far enough ahead (like a day) to accommodate something like a Presidential address, the TiVo will still record the show and not the intervening event. Additionally, TiVo's software makes some pretty good suggestions about shows you might like but haven't recorded.

When you ask TiVo owners why they like their TiVos it comes down to the software on the box. The box itself is decent, but usually could have a few more bells and whistles (or processors for network traffic), but it is the software that people are paying money for. That's why in my comment above I say I'd like to see what is on the Comcast DVRs that will run TiVos software. What amount of TiVo-ification of the Moto box is what will drive my decision to or not to buy the TiVo HD.

I can't speak to what the device you liked to does because I've never used it. It looks like a HD version of a VCR, which is not a bad thing, but based on the one review of it, I'd be concerned about taping over something which is a non-issue for the TiVo.

Hope that helps.

-p-

[stevefree @ Jul 23rd 2007 11:42PM]

Don't waste your $$$. Go with Vista and get the service for free!

http://www.dixiesbbq.com

[Louis Gray @ Jul 24th 2007 12:35AM]

The site is live now. You can buy from the store immediately.
https://www3.tivo.com/store/boxdetails.do?boxName=180hourtivohd&boxsku=R65216

[anders @ Jul 24th 2007 3:44AM]

Will the new Tivo also be able to convert analog signals to digital or not?
And will Tivo get in the race toconvert analog households to digital in 2009?
Do they beliave in broadcasted HDTV? I am looking for clear answers - because consumers will..

Best / Anders Bjers

Blog: dtvbrief.wordpress.com

[Allison Stringer @ Jul 24th 2007 1:12PM]

I've had the original series 3 for 6 months and love it- Doesn't look like the new one is much different except for slightly more drive space and cosmetics....