Hacking a CoinStar machine to bypass transaction fees

We've seen a number of somewhat innocent (and equally wily) hacks that save the little man a dime or two, but never quite so literally as this one. CoinStar machines -- best known for charging a whopping nine percent or so for the convenience of counting our coins for us -- have apparently been outsmarted, making the green machine convert your coins to dollars gratis (without going through the process of getting a gift card). Hit the read link to find out more.

[Thanks, Joe]

Update: Upon reflection, we probably shouldn't go into the gory details of how its done -- but it's nothing so mind-blowing (except for its potential illegality -- you wouldn't tamper with an ATM, would you? This ain't much different.). Or you can, you know, do the right thing and just take an Amazon gift cert and not have to live a look-over-your-shoulder kind of lifestyle.

[shaun @ Aug 7th 2007 5:07AM]

I'm in the UK, and there's a coinstar at my local ASDA store, does anybody know if this works the same way with the iTunes vouchers being available as I've never actually used the machine myself but I've got 30 quid in change upstairs I would like to change (commision-free of course)

[James Ollier @ Aug 7th 2007 5:16AM]

You could just count it and take it to the bank...

[shaun @ Aug 7th 2007 5:23AM]

Yer... but they get really stressy when I take it all down to the bank!

[William @ Aug 7th 2007 9:13AM]

It's the bank's job to take your change. Make 'em work for their job.

That's certainly better than cheating/stealing from Coinstar.

[Kevin @ Aug 7th 2007 1:44PM]

Is it also the banks job to fill out your deposit slips and make sure you have sufficient funds in your account to cover your transactions and make sure your aren't cashing scam checks from Cameroon?

[Joe @ Aug 7th 2007 11:05AM]

CoinStar firmware update push in 3... 2... 1...

[Garst @ Aug 7th 2007 10:28PM]

You could always just buy your own coin sorting machine, then take the sorted and counted change to the bank.

[Marc-O @ Aug 7th 2007 5:09AM]

WTF, Engadget ?

[Lord Shank @ Aug 7th 2007 5:11AM]

This was actually on digg a few months ago, Kevin talked all a bout it.

[Lynn Woody @ Aug 7th 2007 5:11AM]

"gizmo will spin its wheels for a bit whilst trying to reconnect,"

Whilst trying? Whilst? Sounds like pretty cumbersome British or Aussie English. Try the more efficient word, while.

[Ant @ Aug 7th 2007 6:31AM]

When you say cumbesome british english, you do realise that the language is called english because it's from england, right? just because you butchered the language doesn't mean your way of talking is right.
tut tut

[Geekgirl397 @ Aug 7th 2007 2:55PM]

Whilst has just one more letter than while, and has a slightly different meaning. I hardly thing one letter's difference in the service of a more precise statement makes it "inefficient". Lay off the British!

[equal @ Aug 7th 2007 11:12AM]

True, he could have used "while", but that would be grammatically incorrect. If by efficient you meant "saving the 1/4th of a second he would have saved by typing a 5-letter word instead of a 6-letter word, I suppose you're right. But if you're going to insist on using incorrect grammar to be more efficient, then im surprizd ur not typng lyk dis.

[MegaZone @ Aug 7th 2007 5:15AM]

Brilliant? Debatable. Criminal? Probably.

WTF Engadget? There are clever hacks to legitimately save some coin, but this is just shitty. If you don't like the Coinstar fees, don't use the kiosks - they have to pay a pretty penny to the stores to rent the space. I doubt they're raking in millions in profit with that 9% fee after paying for the space, the kiosk hardware, the labor for servicing them, and even the shipping costs of all those coins. (I worked on a kiosk project once where it rounded change up to the nearest dime - it was cheaper to do that than ship and stock pennies and nickels.)

If someone doesn't like the fees - take your coins to your bank and deposit them, or have them convert them to cash. They'll generally do it without a fee for account holders.

Or just spend your change as you get it and you won't have any built up to deal with in the first place. (Which is what I do, I pretty much never have more than $1 in change to my name - I optimize my payments each time. Simple math.)

[prttymf8 @ Aug 7th 2007 5:26AM]

I'm looking forward to the first arrests that come from this "hack."

I'm with you on the spending change. As far as simple math goes, the cashiers have a hard enough time figuring out why I give them $20 and three pennies when my total comes to $17.78, what are the chances the average consumer will be able to do that kind of complicated math so quickly?

Next week on Engadget... "How to hack a bank using only a ski mask and a shotgun."

[JJ @ Aug 7th 2007 5:58AM]

I use Coinstar often. Though the fees are steep at 9%, I don't mind.

Just ask yourself: Is 9% of whatever you're counting going to kill your wallet?

[Sanjay @ Aug 7th 2007 9:33AM]

did you say you doubt they raking in millions? Have a look at their profile. Their revenue per quarter is over $130 million. Yes that's Million.

I do believe that it is unethical to hack the machine. They are providing a service and charging for it same as any other company. 9% is actually a very small amount to pay. I wonder how much Amazon marks up its products I am sure its more than 9%.

-SKP

[Jeebus @ Aug 7th 2007 12:36PM]

"did you say you doubt they raking in millions? Have a look at their profile. Their revenue per quarter is over $130 million. Yes that's Million."

Who cares what their revenue is? Their net profit margin was 3.48% in 2006. That's less than simply putting money in the bank. They are by no means ripping anyone off.

[Bimjob @ Aug 7th 2007 5:17AM]

I'm sorry, but in New Zealand we have places called Banks that change money for free. Do you have to pay to have your coins/notes changed in America???

[shaun @ Aug 7th 2007 5:26AM]

It's a machine you get in supermarkets that changes money

....they still have banks

[james stringer @ Aug 7th 2007 5:48AM]

Heh, In Southland, We have this crazy thing called EFTPOS, so most of us don't carry around cash or change any more...

[Biff_Meister @ Aug 7th 2007 9:07AM]

Banks insist you bring your change counted and rolled, and when you have as much spare change as most Americans, that takes quite a bit of time.

[Scott @ Aug 7th 2007 10:46AM]

@Biffmeister

I have NEVER had a problem getting my large plastic container of change counted at my bank, and I've been a member with many different banks! Bank One (now JP Morgan/Chase), Wells Fargo, US Bank, Washington Mutual, etc.

This is their JOB! They have a change counting machine specifically for this purpose.

[Dustin @ Aug 7th 2007 4:48PM]

My bank hates it when you bring in rolled coins. They have their own counting machine and much prefer that you bring in loose change. Although if you aren't an account holder and want your change counted immediately then they will charge you 5% up to $5.

[jimmyfinch @ Aug 7th 2007 10:01PM]

Back in the summer of 2001, after I spent a full afternoon rolling a years worth of jarred coinage, Washington Mutual was nice enough to try to charge me a per roll fee when I went to deposit them into my account.

The fee would have been more than nine percent of the cash value since it was per roll, and not based on the amount of money deposited.

I was told that they did not charge the fee if you deposited (I believe) less than 5 rolls.

I dumbed about 40 rolls into a CoinStar machine instead.

A month week later I went to the bank and closed my account.

It turns out my account was not actually closed, only all the money was withdrawn, leaving me a zero balance.

A month and a half later I received a statement with an overdraft on it. The only transaction was for the monthly fee they levee on your "free checking account" when your monthly balance is below $2000.

I had to pay the overdraft to close the account or next month I would have had the fee again.

WaMu Sux!

What were we talking about?

[Lee @ Aug 7th 2007 5:30AM]

Just cashed in £138 in loose change at my local Sainsbury's (got £128 back in nice crisp notes (and a couple of pound coins) once I'd redeemd the voucher). As this particular machine is in full view of everyone, I think I would have looked quite suspcicious rooting around the back of it (assuming the UK ones are hooked into the 'net also). Not that I'd have tried anyway!

[PJ @ Aug 7th 2007 5:33AM]

Do Engadget promote theft and fraud now? Is CoinStar some evil empire we should rally against or are they just a company (with mortgage-paying employees) who charge you a fee for doing a job? A fee that you can take or leave? They have no monopoly on counting coins, your hands will do a fine job.

So, here's my hack based on Engadget's standards: When at the Candy store, wait until the owner's back is turned and they you'll find you can take all the candy you want without paying a cent! All you have to do is make sure they don't see you doing it.

This kind of hack is music to the RIAA's ears. Turns out we are all criminals after all.

[Aaron @ Aug 7th 2007 10:09AM]

Dude. Shut up.

I know some people just aren't feeling the hacker spirit, and that's OK I guess, but please keep in mind that "knowing" is different than "doing". I'm sure we all know about lots of bad stuff that we don't actually go and do. Yes, even you.

[caramelzappa @ Aug 7th 2007 5:49AM]

I'm happy paying the fee, the whole point of coinstar is that you're too lazy to count the coins yourself, and they have a machine to do that for me, which as other people have said costs money for them to maintain. This isn't a hack, it's fraud.

[trancer @ Aug 7th 2007 6:05AM]

i see a firmware upgrade soon!

[Yon @ Aug 7th 2007 6:08AM]

Yes, brilliant indeed!

On another note I have come up with another 'especially satisfying little hack' that 'saves the little man a dime or two', it involves redirecting all the ad traffic revenue from engadget into a communal paypal account for redistribution to all readers.

It's win-win for the little man, wouldn't you say? I mean, it's not like engadget is performing a service for which they should be paid, am I right?

[Thad Maxim @ Aug 7th 2007 7:29AM]

u-u-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h (to the sound Lurch makes). Party to the crime; same penalty as the actual perp; at least in Wisconsin.

[jay @ Aug 8th 2007 12:25AM]

dude.. that's from '05.... but thanks anyway, i'll do this next time no one watching.... lol NOT.... why not just go to the bank?

[producerism @ Aug 7th 2007 6:55AM]

this isn't any more criminal than flipping the switch on a pinball machine to get some free games

[alex @ Aug 7th 2007 9:36PM]

What's the point? Coinstars already give you gift cards worth 100% of your coins. Just pick one for a store you use a lot, and it's the just as good as cash.

[George @ Aug 7th 2007 7:32AM]

I hate to say it but I'm going to bash this article. If any of you readers out there have ever read 2600 you would of seen this in one of their 2005 issues. I don't remember which one exactly but thats where I first heard about this.

[Joseph @ Aug 7th 2007 9:44AM]

This is theft. I definitely enjoy reading about this sort of thing, but I would not actually use it or encourage anyone else to.

[Walter A. @ Aug 8th 2007 7:09AM]

Coming tomorrow,

"Hacking Engadget to Disable Display of all Ads."

[Geoffrey Sperl @ Aug 7th 2007 9:00AM]

We can do that right now:

Use Firefox and install the Adblock add-on. On this page alone I can see 109 blockable items in my Adblock (though many of them are legit).

[strider_mt2k @ Aug 7th 2007 9:26AM]

Damn straight!

Looking at ads is for suckers.

[Reginald @ Aug 7th 2007 11:59PM]

...or on a Windows machine you can just edit your HOST file to redirect all known ad sites to localhost (127.0.0.1).

You can even download an altered HOST file here to block all of Engadget's ads:

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

Not that it's wrong or anything to circumvent revenue streams, right Engadget?!

[Frank @ Aug 7th 2007 8:56PM]

the best way to optimize the coinstar machines is to only let it count your pennies. Remove most of your silver coins especially your quarters. It costs over 2 cents in fees to count one quarter.

[John @ Aug 7th 2007 7:42AM]

Or just go to the bank. Most local banks have FREE yes FREE coin counting machines. This blog is pointless. Unless its on hack-a-day.c_m.

[rudebo @ Aug 7th 2007 7:51AM]

let me get this straight .. because i'm from a backwater country so to speak ... in the west if you have a bag of change .. stores arent happy to take it off your hands and give you bills instead ?

[James @ Aug 7th 2007 3:48PM]

Most stores are too busy to count a ton of change for you, and can rightly tell you that they don't take large amounts of change (though that limit is of course flexible). If somebody bought 10 bucks worth of stuff at a busy convenience store in pennies, would you want to be behind them in line, waiting for the clerk to count to 1000?

Anyway, I think the proper protocol is to tell CoinStar before you tell the world, but if the hack has been "public knowledge" since 2005, I think it's pretty much their fault this is allowed to continue.

Keep in mind: the other day I saw an ad for these things, and apparently you also pay no commission on gift cards to a lot of other stores, like Circuit City. I don't amass a lot of change -- I tend to spend it as I get it -- but if I did, I probably shop at Circuit City enough that I could just use a CoinStar machine to pay for something I was going to buy anyway...

[Anthony @ Aug 7th 2007 9:53PM]

Coin Counting Homepage-

http://www.theunderstory.com/index.htm

[Lynn Woody @ Aug 7th 2007 1:46PM]

"When you say cumbesome british english, you do realise that the language is called english because it's from england, right? just because you butchered the language doesn't mean your way of talking is right.
tut tut"

Actually, what we did was eliminate much of the superfluous British spelling and pronunciation. But unfortunately it remains in the "old" country. Now if we could just get the Brits to streamline some of their spelling and terminology, we could bring them into the linguistic 21st century. How is maneuver spelled in British English? Manoeuver or something like that? Really clumsy. The Brits love those oe's.

[Geekgirl397 @ Aug 7th 2007 3:02PM]

OK, so how do you explain monstrosities of US English such as "burglarized"? (The British English is "burgled").

I'm not trying to get into a fight with you, just pointing out that there are differences, that even out, on the whole, to be neutral. Language is constantly changing and evolving - nobody changes anything by proscribing the illogical (cf. esperanto, "simplified spelling"). Language is not good or bad, it just *is*.

[johnzilla @ Aug 7th 2007 8:17AM]

Where I come from, we have a word for this type of "hack": theft.

Also where I come from, the banks have coin cointing machines in their lobbies, with no charge applied for counting if you're a bank customer. Thus, no need to pay 8.9% to Coinstar.

[Marc-O @ Aug 7th 2007 8:27AM]

Did you hear that ? That was the sound of Engadget's editorial standards going down the drain...


Goodbye deontology, hello legal liability ! *polite golf clap*