Palm Foleo delayed amid criticism on development

According to a Barron's report published today, Deutsche Bank analyst Johnathan Goldberg has released a short note claiming that the Foleo -- Palm's much-derided quasi-laptop -- is headed for production delays. Goldberg states in the note that "In a round of checks yesterday we learned that the Palm Foleo will be delayed," and went on to say the snag is caused by "software bugs," which prevent the system from syncing properly with "most models of the Treo." Clearly not the news that Palm wants people to hear right now, with pressure already to-the-nines on the Foleo and its place (or lack thereof) in the market. With the recent addition of Elevation Partners to Palm's board, the company is due to take on $400 million in new debt, but on a phone call to Barron's later in the day, Goldberg said that "a leveraged re-cap is not going to help them." Succinctly mirroring Engadget's own feelings on the matter, the analyst noted that "There's something wrong with the company," and suggested Palm alleviate some of its problems by introducing "...new software," and "...new form factors." We couldn't have put it better ourselves.

Read -- Palm Sub-Laptop "Foleo" Delayed, Says Deutsche; Does Anyone Care?
Read -- Palm: It's The Software, Stupid, Says Deutsche's Goldberg; Where's the Sense of Urgency?

[Bob @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:12PM]

Die Foleo Die a slow and painful death.

[Yon @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:42PM]

I do find it amusing that, of all the mobile techies around, I appear to be the only one greatly interested in this product.

However, I feel this would fair much better if it were to be advertised as a 'hip, instant on, reliable and cheap, take anywhere and throw around ultraportable notebook' for the college crowd, and mobile writing enthusiast.

Advertise it as such then, as a feature, list it's treo connectivity. I mean, if you look at it as a stand alone product and get past the negativity surrounding it, it really does seem desirable, no? Did I mention it's one of the nicest looking $499 ultraportable slim-feature notebook around? I wouldn't mind being seen with it in public, at least they have that going for them.

Sure, it's not extremely powerful, but one only needs to give the illusion of power (take the iphone for instance, the interface sells it) which it appears to do somewhat well. And, by it's release, it should be able to complete 95% of what most people use there computer for anyway (referencing wikipedia and porn.. ok not really). Plus(!) it's built on a linux platform, so expanded functionality shouldn't be too far away (if it succeeds).

Oh well, what do you think.. am I missing something here?

[sr1329 @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:59PM]

First the Lifedrive then this?

[Yoda @ Aug 23rd 2007 4:32PM]

It would've made sense 5 years ago when laptops were slow heavy pigs.

[NutMac @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:18PM]

Palm should just kill the product and cut their losses early.

[Angie @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:25PM]

I'm so embarrased for these guys watching this product roll out. On one hand its painful to watch on the other you kind of do out of morbid curiousity.

[Project D @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:18PM]

Pick one up and try it sometime. It's oddly addictive.

[Tristan @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:26PM]

heh heh Deutsche...

[David @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:27PM]

Ahh... I remember 1996... when this was called the HP Jornada.

[Lor @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:42PM]

... I want an updated Jornada and this looks like the closest thing.

[strider_mt2k @ Aug 22nd 2007 9:52PM]

"...it's better to burn out, than it is to rust..."

[Richard Cartwright @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:00PM]

Ok, Palm is holding up to get the software right...and people bitch. Had Palm released the Folio and the software was not right people would certainly bitch. Give them some credit for at least doing their best to get it right the first time.

[Khris @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:11PM]

Palm deserves NO CREDIT WHATSOEVER for sinking god knows how much time and money into this electronic abomination!

Palm needs to be put out to pasture, plain and simple! It's like watching a geriatric patient on palative care, clinging to life.

[Gary Raynor @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:07PM]

how about holding it up because nobody wants it and thinks its carp. But I'm with Angie in wanting to see Palm attempt to push its lumbering white elephant on people.

[Josh @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:11PM]

It would probably sell better if people thought it was a fish.

[erikislame @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:12PM]

I am so sick and tired of all of this bashing on the Foleo. I am a ROAD WARRIOR and have been waiting for ever for just this kind of solution--something that's not my mobile handheld smartphone and not my 5 lb 13'' laptop.

I NEED something that is a convenient in-between those two devices!

I mean, doesn't anyone else have this problem? At all?








(Just kidding: The Foleo sucks. I can't believe anyone is really interested in this piece of crap.)

[sr1329 @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:05AM]

Pretty funny. On a more serious note you can easily get a full 12" sub 3lb laptop these days and most smartphones can easily handle most other tasks. The only advantage of this is a bigger screen than a smartphone.

[rodrigo @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:17PM]

Focusing on an add-on product (Foleo) for a product (Treo) that is outdated and losing market share every day is a very foolish use of time, energy and money.

It's like spending millions of dollars on an online music service exclusively for the Zune. You are hitching your wagon to a dimming star Palm.

Nobody wants this product. Fix the damn Treo... I'm giving you guys until the holiday season at which time my 700p goes away and gets replaced with something that can actually browse the web.

[D @ Aug 28th 2007 4:00PM]

Lots of people want it. I run into them daily.

[rjtechnology @ Aug 22nd 2007 10:47PM]

Is Palm doing its own software development or are they subcontracting somewhere.

How can you have syncing issues between your own products? This may mean the product never sees retail shelves.

[D @ Aug 28th 2007 4:31PM]

It's actually quite simple - the Foleo does NOT run Palm OS, it runs a completely different operating system based off a Linux kernel. As a result, they're trying get two operating systems to communicate properly. At the risk of offending anyone (though I shouldn't), it's like dealing with two Chinese people, one speaking Cantonese, one speaking Mandarin. They're both from the same country (Palm), but that doesn't mean they speak the same language. That can cause issues sometimes.

[Dave @ Aug 30th 2007 1:43AM]

Well that makes sense. I am not convinced that the Foleo will be successful.

Thanks for the info

[konadakine @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:22PM]

Palm is dead! When I was returning my Treo 750 there were two other
people doing the same thing. One bought an Iphone the other a
blackberry 8800 and I bought an HTC-8525. The only reason Palm exist
still is because HTC and Palm have an agreement to manufacture phones
for palm. Palm's processors are too slow. The designs are old and the
software is bugy. I love the form factor of the Treo, but that is not
enough to sell me!Compare a Palm phone to any HTC phone and palm
loses. Foleo in african means warrior who ran with the lions and won
the race only to have a monkey flatulate in his mouth at the finish
line.Goodnight palm. 3G-Iphone will be your pallbearer and AT&T TILT
will be your priest! Rest in peace Palm and my your bastard stepchild
Foleo finaly find its home in hell with his transvestite
sister/brother, the Palm Gandolf!Enjoy hell Palm, You earned it!

[gshb @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:40PM]

haha i can be like palm's management and provide a solution. they should fire more of their software people. yah, kill two birds with one stone. it'll fix their software issues and also cut back costs.

[CaptObvious @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:47PM]

Can someone please explain to me the $#@#$ is the point of this device is.
1- it's not for the masses
2- it's not a umpc
3- its not a phone
Why would any1 want to carry another device. CONVERGENGE people CONVERGENCE!
I'd rather an olpc

[oki @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:52PM]

just to inform you guys the foleo is to in future support the iphone adn blackberries, its not a competitor to those devices they are suppose to be companions.

[sr1329 @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:10AM]

Yeah my devices are lonely and they keep asking me for a companion. I should get them this.

[oki @ Aug 22nd 2007 11:53PM]

also to mention, treos is one of the few that is open platform compared to iphone and blackberry

[sr1329 @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:12AM]

Yeah, check out Symbian. With a worldwide 72.6% marketshare it must have gotten something right. It's quite open.

[John @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:00AM]

Gotta see the look on their faces when they realized they were a decade late to the party.
Whither Handspring...

[ark_v2 @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:03AM]

It's awesome, I still can't believe they are taking this Foleo thing seriously, and actually believing it'll work.

[Juke Box Hero @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:06AM]

Mental note: short PALM...

[Bradley Miller @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:40AM]

foleo sucks...(couldn't think of anything creative)

[Peter Payne @ Aug 23rd 2007 2:06AM]

Heh. Hate to say it but Apple has $0 debt.

[erikislame @ Aug 23rd 2007 2:20AM]

and that has something to do with this post how?

[Profoleo @ Aug 23rd 2007 2:44AM]

Yon, you're not the only one into this machine. Our ranks our growing:
http://www.profoleo.com/

[Battle.Panda @ Aug 23rd 2007 3:14AM]

Com'on Asus... bring out the EEE and put the Foleo out of it's misery.

[Andrew @ Aug 23rd 2007 3:25AM]

In the early 80's, Tandy made a portable version of their TRS-80 computer, which was an basically an incredibly simple solid-state word processor with a full sized keyboard. For decades after they went away, field researches and mobile writers sought after these rare devices, creating a robust aftermarket for the reconditioning and reselling of these machines. Why? Because all these people need is a word processor, or maybe a spreadsheet, with a usable keyboard. You didn't have to wait for it to boot up, or shut it down, or maintain a heavyweight modern operating system, or THINK about it. Using a modern laptop (especially in the mid to late 90's) was like dragging a cannon around to swat flies.

This is the market that the Foleo could serve well. Inexplicably, this isn't the market Palm seems to be targeting, which is unfortunate, as UMPCs are finally within a year or two of finally getting cheap, simple, and reliable enough that people won't need this anymore.

In short, I think the Foleo concept is genius, but if they don't get it right this time it will be too late.

With the pricetag of a modern laptop and an inexplicable "mobile companion" sales push, things are not looking good.

[Stephen Lang @ Aug 23rd 2007 1:46PM]

But the problem is that the Foleo concept is not genius, even if the hardware is nice. They coulda rolled out a Palm OS standalone clamshell for $299 or so. Instead they trump up the Treo companion angle, and also trump up the price despite the relatively cheap hardware.

Could you imagine if Apple came out with a flash-based subnotebook like this, running a stripped down OS X similar to the iPhone? Now that would be a sweet mobile machine...It might actually be nice enough to charge the $499 or $599 that Palm wants for the Foleo.

[D @ Aug 28th 2007 3:57PM]

I agree, they may have rolled this out just a hair too late. I honestly think someone up there must like riding the razor's edge or something.

[miron @ Aug 23rd 2007 4:28AM]

See, this bugs me. What would be perfect is something with the form factor of an OQO Model 2, small enough to carry with me, but can still edit word documents, view web pages, have some software I install on my own, an actual keyboard, and a non-microscopic screen. I have an HTC 8125 now, which works. If it had 3G, a better processor, and some type of Linux distrobution on it, it'd be perfect.

[Patrick Teng @ Aug 23rd 2007 4:33AM]

I for one, dig the concept of the Foleo. I mean, the vision is that your mobile device, in this case a Treo, would have all the connectivity, storeage, and processing power that you need. But sometimes you just need a bigger screen and a keyboard! So why not suppliment your Treo with something like the Foleo? No, I'm not talking about just syncing, I want my Treo and a Foleo device to act as one. When I create a new document, it should appear on the Treo and Foleo. When I'm viewing a video and walk away from the Foleo, the Treo should continue playing. In one word...Seamless.

But I do agree that the Treos and Foleo need major rework! I mean there's one thing about taste, which Apple/Steve Jobs and Co. are good at. But com'on Palm, is it so hard to have a decent redesigned Treo that has glass and aluminum? And the current foleo design just screams cheap plastic!!! Don't bother waiting for your new OS to have new hardware...Just Release the hardware and make the OS upgradeable! The time it took Apple to do the iPhone, you guys sat on the same Treo design...you've only removed the NOB! Where's the R&D?!?!?! Where's the managment in this!?!? As agonizing it is for us, what's it like on the inside? Like pulling teeth?

[Herman Manfred @ Aug 23rd 2007 6:31AM]

> Com'on Asus... bring out the EEE and put the Foleo out of it's misery.

According to Asus (see Endgadget's note http://tinyurl.com/2vuelk ) the EEE is coming is September.

[JCD @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:06PM]

Am I the only one who actually hopes this succeeds? I always liked the palm interface over the windows mobile/CE interface. Its simple, efficient, and meets pretty much all of your basic business computing needs without overdoing it. I mean, I don't need a flippin' Vista Premium compatible machine with dual cores and dedicated GPUs to read my email, check my stocks, and write memos to the office.

The only concerns I have are:
1) will the foleo retain the simplicity of the palm OS?
2) will the pricetag put them in competition with smaller laptops, which kinda defeats the purpose behind the foleo?
3) why in the HELL aren't they positioning the foleo as the palm pilot of laptops instead of selling it as a 'companion to smart phones?'

[Malcolm Marler @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:35PM]

I'm with you JCD. I want the Foleo to work, and I want it to retain the simplicity of the Palm OS. My Palm on a larger screen with PIMs, email, internet, Wifi, and Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, perfect!

That covers about 95 percent of what I need. I'm willing to wait, come on Palm, I've been using your products for over a decade, and they are still better overall devices than Windows Mobile, Smartphones, and iPhone.

Malcolm Marler

[keithwwalker @ Aug 23rd 2007 12:31PM]

I wonder if this is just a cover for killing the project due to lack of interest...?

[lanejasper69 @ Aug 23rd 2007 2:41PM]

They shouldn't have wasted time creating this f-ing Joke of a device in the first place, it's 2007 almost 2008!!

Figure it out Palm, you're dying!!!!

[dj-kenpo @ Aug 23rd 2007 7:11PM]

I really wish all the little 14year olds bashing this thing would just go away, ya, we get it, it doesn't play doom3 or whatever, great, just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean other people won't. what you think you're smart because you've read a best buy flyer and you know about 12" portables? you get a gold star! stay in school.

for me, this would be great for installing an apache server and running it as a php/mysql dev environment, instant on is something no mac or windows notebook can compete with.

the problem is the $500 price tag. don't think so, not ever for that price. make it $299, and sure, perhaps. until then, I'll deal with NOT instant on notebooks with MORE power, that I can get on ebay for like $150. ie compaq n410c 12" ultraportable not much larger but with 1.2ghz p3 and like 1gb ram.

[D @ Aug 23rd 2007 9:30PM]

I'll make it short, sweet, and to the point. I work for Palm as one of the field reps going around to the stores, and I love the company. I love the products. I do believe they're a bit too stagnant, but I still love the company and their products. I also recognize that they've turned out some turkeys. The 650 and the original 700w had hardware issues, the 680 isn't 3G and has a VGA camera (which you CAN'T blame Palm for, Cingular specifically requested the stripped-down specs for it, don't ask me why), and the 750 is...well, it's Windows Mobile, what do you expect from it? And now, we have the Foleo. Looks great on paper, but it's a total niche product. From day one I was excited about it from a tech geek perspective, but I still rolled my eyes because it sounded like Palm was pidgeon-holing themselves. Then I got my demo model to feel out, get comfortable with, and get ready to demo to my stores after it launches.

I'm posting from my Foleo right now. This thing is addictive. It's convenient, bloody more convenient than my Thinkpad was before it caught fire. I used to check my email out of necessity but now I actually kind of enjoy it. Really, this thing isn't full of innovative technology or even anything we haven't seen in one form or another before. There's no real rhyme or reason for it, but I genuinely enjoy this product. And so far, so has everyone that came to the demo events or seen me use mine in passing. The Palm Store in my territory gets daily inquiries about it from people chomping at the bit. This thing is a little grey diamond in the rough. Is it going to fly off the shelves and go into production droughts like the Nintendo Wii? Probably not. But it's not going to flop, at least not without a fight. Now, I'm going to go check my work email and catch up on Homestar Runner.

[brett.chandler @ Aug 24th 2007 11:52AM]

Thanks for this post. Personally, I like this idea, after spending time trying to use a miniature bt keyboard with my PDA. There is definitely a niche for the Foleo, snide comments on this post notwithstanding. It will be MUCH easier to use on a plane than most laptops, and the instant-on feature will make it handy for casual use.

PDAs/smartphones are small and convenient, but at times it's handy to have a full-sized interface. Yes, I can see this filling the same kind of niche the Journada/TRS-80 portables used to sell to. If Palm can follow through with iPhone/Blackberry compatibility, it could be huge.

I just hope the damn thing works the way it's supposed to.