Kenwood's high-end Media Keg features gold plating... on the internal frame

Gold plating is often used as a means to lower the electrical resistance (and substantially increase the price) of so-called, high-end audio cables and plugs. Fine, we're used to that. This is the first time, however, that we've seen it used on a internal DAP frame as a basis to tout superior sound achieved through superior fit. We kid you not, that's Kenwood's pitch for their new 60GB, HD60GD9EC audio player. The Media Keg series was already acclaimed for its superior sound quality and the introduction of AAC support is a welcome addition to Kenwood lossless and WMA/MP3 compressed formats. Still, a gold plated internal chassis demanding a ¥57,800 (about $503) premium? Puhlease. Oh, and since you don't seem to be paying attention Kenwood, slim 160GB 1.8-inch drives are now available. Yeah, really.

[FrankTheCrank @ Sep 14th 2007 8:33AM]

Muffy and I abhore Gold....pffff!

Platinum is where it's at!

Where is my butler today?

[Sheldon @ Sep 14th 2007 8:40AM]

As it's Kenwood, I have the urge to ask "Will it blend?" but most people outside the UK might not spot the reference.

[Mike @ Sep 14th 2007 9:03AM]

Actually, Gold has a HIGHER electrical resistance than copper, Gold plating is done because pure copper will corrode over time, but the electical resistance of the three top metals are: Silver at 1.62 μΩ-cm, Copper at 1.7241 μΩ-cm, and Gold at 2.44 μΩ-cm.

[Eric @ Sep 14th 2007 8:59AM]

Look at the F holes! I guess they improve the resonance of the hard drive or something.

Hey Kenwood, make the thing clear so we can at least see the beautiful RF shielding.

[R @ Sep 14th 2007 9:41AM]

Since the sound comes out of the earphones and not the unit itself, I see no way that those cute little F holes could make any difference in sound quality.

They are neat, though . . . I'm sure some classical music fans might buy it because of that. If Kenwood wanted to go whole hog, they should've put in an endpin, or at least a scroll at the top with some tuner pegs. Rock me, Amadeus!

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 9:57AM]

So I started looking at the holes, and then I notice some screws going through those holes. Then I said.... OH! Maybe that is what the holes are their for!

As for the other holes without screws... maybe they are their for ventilation purposes?

[Kevin @ Sep 14th 2007 1:43PM]

I think you put an F when you meant an A.

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 8:59AM]

If this is the best your company can come up with to counter the iPod, just give up already.

[da_bradler @ Sep 14th 2007 9:24AM]

the iPod sounds like crap to the hears of an audiophile, at least one company actually cares about sound quality, I mean seriously people keep putting more and more compression on there music and listen with smaller and smaller cheaper head phones. I dunno the music industry needs a portable that can power a good pair of headphones, hopefully this is it. I could care less about a 160GB hard drive if the music coming out of it isn't up to snuff.

[mikey @ Sep 14th 2007 11:14AM]

difference is most people care about the music, whereas audiophiles care about the gear.

i' a musician, so i'm probally biased, but i really couldn't care how great or bad a mix might sound. i've spent endless hours in studios, but at the end of the day if i hear a great track i'll love it wether i'm listening to it thru the iPod earbuds or my (awful) car speakers, or a pair of Grados. The importance is the music, not the gear.

[Matt @ Sep 15th 2007 8:47PM]

I find that Rockbox gives the iPod a boost in sound volume and quality. I've been using it for a year and I don't miss playing video one bit. Get it and quit complaining www.rockbox.org

[kaztm @ Sep 14th 2007 6:12PM]

mikey,

I see what you mean, and you make a good point.
However, isn't it also true that you want to enjoy the music?

For example, although I would feel cheerful when I hear my favorite music, the experience wouldn't be optimal if there was a phone ringing or ambulance siren in the background. Even if there wasn't external noise, I still prefer that I have high SN ratio. I don't enjoy listening to music that sounds like someone's radio coming through the phone.

[humpty @ Sep 14th 2007 9:30AM]

Hate to burst your bubble iBots.. but, the iPod line (all of them) sound like shit when compared to anything else.. their sn scores are usually in the low 80s... but, they're shiny and make you feel good.

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 9:38AM]

I don't have an iPod. I don't have any portable music player. But this is a gimmick, pure and simple. And, however the iPod sounds is irrelevant as the iPod is still their main competition.

Is this REALLY the best that the guys in the Kenwood marketing department can come up with? Really? If it is, then it is time for some staff turnover.

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 10:10AM]

I was going to purchase this DAP player a while ago but I thought it was waaay to expensive, however all the reviews I read said the sound quality was very good!

Apple's iPod might be the King according to consumer purchasing, however Kenwood is clearly looking at the sound quality of DAP’s.

OS X, ahem… the worlds most advance operating system *might* be better than its competition, but look at who is dominating the OS market according towards sales.

It's almost like comparing Apples to Oranges... err Windows?

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 10:53AM]

Someone please explain this to me. How can Kenwood's (or any other comapany's) player sound better than an iPod (or any other company's player) when playing the same exact source file? Please give technical reasons. Please do NOT give earphones as a reason if it is simply a matter of buying better earphones.

The same source file's data does not magically get better when stored on a different device. And, since all devices are capable of playing lossless audio, there should really be no measurable difference in sound quality if you are using the same earphones.

So what am I missing?

[Pablo @ Sep 14th 2007 11:07AM]

@ yoshi,
the quality of the DSP (Digital Signal Processor), is important to playback.

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 11:29AM]

Cool, ty. When I'm shopping for external HD enclosures, I look for the chipset of the unit as a deciding factor. So that helps. It would help your cause, if you are an iPod-hater, to use specfics like this in your arguments. Otherwise, you just sound like a raving loon.

Example: tell me what DSP is in your favorite iPod-killer player and what DSP is in a similarly priced iPod. Then link to reputable sites that discuss the pros and cons of each.

[sholt @ Sep 14th 2007 11:33AM]

@Yoshi:

The DAC can introduce certain undesirable properties to the signal. A poor DAC can cause out of phase issues, or have less stereo separation than is desirable. A good discussion (along with a comparison between the 2 most recent iPod revisions) can be found here: http://homepage.mac.com/marc.heijligers/audio/ipod/comparison/measurements/measurements.html

[Chris @ Sep 14th 2007 11:58AM]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11297_7-6510133-2.html

The sn ratio is right up there near the top. Nobody is going to notice a .8db difference. The most important thing is having good head/ear phones. Well recorded music sounds glorious to me on my 5.5G iPod with etymotic earphones. The player is actually a smaller part of the sound equation than the drivers.

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 12:02PM]

Yoshi

I'll see if I can explain it in laymen’s terms.

Using only common sense. Everything that you stated seems to be TRUE! And it is... From a common sense point of view. However when looking ONLY at the source file which has not change and then looking at the device use to play/interpret the source file; that is where the discrepancy comes into play. As Pablo stated earlier; "The quality of the DSP (Digital Signal Processor), is important to playback."

Both devices might be small, white, have a UI working in a similar manner, play music, etc... However both companies take completely different design approach. Their is not a central source of marking, R&D, engineering, manufacturing, etc... when the DAP's were built, So the 2 DAP's go of in their separate ways.

Maybe they were twins separate at birth? 1 Of the twins is a ROCK STAR with all of the popularity in the world! While the other twin is an ubergeeky scientist of some sort, lock in a basement somewhere and he only gets to come out during a Solar Eclipse. "That’s management playing a cruel joke on him trying to convince him that he doesn’t need to go outside because there is no such thing as daylight. Then management says, See no SUN!!! Now back to work. :D"

Now I have to get back to work myself before I get caught posting!

I hope this helps!

:D

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 12:53PM]

Thank you for the attempt at the explanation, but no, it did not help. I was looking for technical explanations. I'm all grown up and can handle them.

So far, the only technical reason anyone has pointed out is the DSP. And so far, no one has point out a player that has a significantly better DSP implimentation than the iPod.

So, still looking....

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 2:10PM]

I semi-understand your question Yoshi, however it does seem tad bit confusing to me. To me it seems like you have never heard of this thing called a DSP or what are the benefits from it or how it is use to make products better or even if it has ever been in a product before?

Please do a google search on iPod vs. Kenwood’s DAP vs. DSP *QUALITY*. There are other forms which can EXPLAIN DSP in all of its DSP geekyness, this is not one of them.

After rereading the topic and ALL of YOUR post; and your first post being…
“yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 8:59AM
If this is the best your company can come up with to counter the iPod, just give up already.”
1. Gold plating on almost any product produces a higher price tag and it is normally related to higher quality products.
2. Kenwood came out with this DAP product a while ago and they stated that their DSP in their DAP produces better sound quality. So only the gold plating is new here.

The topic of this post is...
"Kenwood's high-end Media Keg features gold plating... on the internal frame"

Their is no mention of *iPod* or Apple* anywhere in the post. I am not sure if your question is DSP, or Apple’s iPod vs. Kenwood’s DAP DSP, or something else... Perhaps starting controversy when their is none? However this is not an Apple/iPod post. Also, as you stated earlier, “I don't have an iPod.” I can only take the assumption that you are about to purchase an iPod from bringing up the iPod questions/comparisons? And perhaps your *now* awareness of Kenwood’s DAP device is a rival to your potential purchase, thus prompting the question of how is Kenwood’s DSP better than the iPod? I have a 3rd gen. iPod, a DVX-POD 7010 and 2 Viliv-P1’s and I can assure you that the iPod does not come in first place with sound quality, however it doesn’t come in last place either! This is me giving you a LOT of lead way here towards what is better without a technical explanation.

Maybe next time when their is an Apple or iPod post you can post an iPod question as towards how good it is and how it is the BEST and you can go and start iPod controversy? Kenwood is not trying to PROVE that its DSP is SOLY better than Apple’s iPod. Please give Kenwood the proper respect when posting by staying on topic.

So, the conclusion which I arrived with is…
That was a nice game you played Yoshi. You played everybody very well, very well indeed!

Take care!

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 2:13PM]

Sorry for the double post guys... I was doing a lot of typing as you can tell.

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 4:22PM]

Xzavier –

Oh. My. God. Grow up.

Are you really that dense? People are saying over and over again - IN THIS POST - how the iPod sounds like crap. I'm saying, tell me SPECIFICALLY why that is so. Give me TECHNICAL reasons why that is so. Link to REPUTABLE sites that say that it is so and have them give the technical reasons if you are unable to. In a way, I’m actually trying to help these people. Right now, I just think they’re blowing hot air because they don’t provide any facts to go along with their opinions. I imagine others probably think so as well.

A few people did give some technical information. I thanked them. You posted some condescending nonsensical drivel. From your messages, and your insistence that “this is not the place” to ask such very difficult questions, I’d guess that you have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about. You cannot back up your opinion with fact so you say, “it’s all out there on the web, now go away kid...”.

That you later basically state “The topic of this post started out as blah blah blah and YOU are not allowed to veer away from that topic – even in response to others” just confirms my opinion. Sorry buddy, but it’s not your blog and I’ll comment on whatever I damn well please.

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 4:39PM]

It’s simple... Their is only one way you can Prove/Facts on the sound quality of the iPod vs. other DAP's and yes we are still talking about the iPod in a non iPod form.

Go borrow an iPod because they are all over the place and then borrow some other DAP and you will figure it OUT!

Nuf said... just go and do it and then you will understand... Until then, just keep salivating over the iPod in the wrong form!

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 4:51PM]

Wow.

Me: "Please give me technical reasons to back up your opions".
You: "Here's some non-tech stuff".
Me: "Thanks, but I was interested in tech reasons".
You: "Here's some more non-tech stuff".
Me: "What part of TECHNICAL reasons didn't you understand".
You: "Oh yeah, here's another non-tech reason".

By the way, you probably mean "forum", not "form". But you keep repeating "form" so I'm not sure.

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 5:14PM]

Ya know Yoshi... I think you are more annoying than my post!

Got to admit... you got me hook, line, and sinker!

It's a big weekend coming up and I have a lot of things to get done, so if you want a technical reason what makes DSP so Kick A$$ then read this! http://www.dspguide.com/

Until our next NON-iPod *FORM*

:D

[kaztm @ Sep 14th 2007 6:35PM]

"How can Kenwood's (or any other comapany's) player sound better than an iPod (or any other company's player) when playing the same exact source file?"

How can Mercedes' (or any other comapany's) car perform better than a Hyndai (or any other company's car) when running on the same exact road?

[yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 7:15PM]

So far, no one has come up with a single specific reason as to why the iPod "sounds like crap". No one. Nobody. Not a single person with a single reason. Granted, not everyone "in the know" is reading this, but I do find that telling. People have talked about cheap earbuds and overcompression, but those are not iPod-specific reasons.

kaztm - you ask how Mercedes could ride better than a Hyundai. That's a reasonable comparison, but you completely missed the point. There are SPECIFIC REASONS why Mercedes rides better than a Hyundai. It's not just magic. The difference is that most people can probably spout off a few of those reasons and not resort to "just go try both and you'll see".

So, what are the SPECIFIC REASONS that brand xxxx is better than an iPod? I'm not saying that it ain't so. I'm asking WHY it's so. People mentioned the DSP, but then all the links point to the fact that it's not really that different between the brands that were compared.

If you guys hate the iPod, fine. I don't care. If brand xxxx "just sounds better to you", fine, qualify it that way instead of dumb "iPod sucks" comments.

Unfortunately, I'm growing tired of this "form" and going to give it a rest. As I said, I don't own any music player. I probably never will unless it comes as a byproduct of some other device I happen to get. I just was curious as to why people kept saying that the iPod sucks without giving any real reasons. And now I think I have my answer.

[coplice @ Sep 14th 2007 9:53AM]

PIMP mp3 player :p
can you put it around your neck?

[Natedog @ Sep 14th 2007 10:08AM]

Kiss my glorious golden ass!

(Parallel universe Bender)

[MoonRocket @ Sep 14th 2007 10:40AM]

The only people more annoying than Apple fan boys are Audiophiles. They set new levels for haughty arrogance.

[Chris @ Sep 14th 2007 10:55AM]

Mike is correct, gold plating is used to prevent oxidation.

[Ray @ Sep 14th 2007 11:40AM]

In about 2 years im gonna start buying all these used ones up on eBay for like $15 and then melt down all the gold...

[Tavis Veighey @ Sep 14th 2007 12:28PM]

What, they plated the inner frame in gold for better sound, but forgot the $1,000 wooden knob?

[TIMMAH! @ Sep 14th 2007 12:32PM]

A "Keg" is not something I usually equate with "high end"...

[Louis @ Sep 14th 2007 1:48PM]

I don't consider myself an audiophile, but I do appreciate excellent sound quality. Then again, I can understand that I'm the minority, as I can hear a distinct difference between 320kbps MP3 encoded with LAME at the highest quality setting, versus a WAV file. I would certainly consider one of these if they can get the US price below $400. Still really expensive for a portable, but I didn't maintain my music collection in lossless formats to hear it destroyed by a cheap portable player with a crappy DAC and a shitty digital amplifier that exceeds 1% THD. Call me a snooty audiophile, call me more obsessed with gear than music, who cares! I like my music to sound the way it was intended.

[Yubastard @ Sep 14th 2007 1:50PM]

yeah, beat the crap out of them, Engadget!

[Xzavier @ Sep 14th 2007 2:09PM]

I semi-understand your question Yoshi, however it does seem tad bit confusing to me. To me it seems like you have never heard of this thing called a DSP or what are the benefits from it or how it is use to make products better or even if it has ever been in a product before?

Please do a google search on iPod vs. Kenwood’s DAP vs. DSP *QUALITY*. There are other forms which can EXPLAIN DSP in all of its DSP geekyness, this is not one of them.

After rereading the topic and ALL of YOUR post; and your first post being…
“yoshi @ Sep 14th 2007 8:59AM
If this is the best your company can come up with to counter the iPod, just give up already.”
1. Gold plating on almost any product produces a higher price tag and it is normally related to higher quality products.
2. Kenwood came out with this DAP product a while ago and they stated that their DSP in their DAP produces better sound quality. So only the gold plating is new here.

The topic of this post is...
"Kenwood's high-end Media Keg features gold plating... on the internal frame"

Their is no mention of *iPod* or Apple* anywhere in the post. I am not sure if your question is DSP, or Apple’s iPod vs. Kenwood’s DAP DSP, or something else... Perhaps starting controversy when their is none? However this is not an Apple/iPod post. Also, as you stated earlier, “I don't have an iPod.” I can only take the assumption that you are about to purchase an iPod from bringing up the iPod questions/comparisons? And perhaps your *now* awareness of Kenwood’s DAP device is a rival to your potential purchase, thus prompting the question of how is Kenwood’s DSP better than the iPod? I have a 3rd gen. iPod, a DVX-POD 7010 and 2 Viliv-P1’s and I can assure you that the iPod does not come in first place with sound quality, however it doesn’t come in last place either! This is me giving you a LOT of lead way here towards what is better without a technical explanation.

Maybe next time when their is an Apple or iPod post you can post an iPod question as towards how good it is and how it is the BEST and you can go and start iPod controversy? Kenwood is not trying to PROVE that its DSP is SOLY better than Apple’s iPod. Please give Kenwood the proper respect when posting by staying on topic.

So, the conclusion which I arrived with is…
That was a nice game you played Yoshi. You played everybody very well, very well indeed!

Take care!

[shehzad @ Sep 18th 2007 1:13PM]

It's(Kenwood DAP) has real AMP and Pre AMP in it(check Kenwood site). So sound qual;ity of these DAPs are much higher than even usual top notch sound quality DAPs(ipod is way lower). If you want to listen the music with great sepration and details(mids highs and lows) then only Kenwood produce the best sounding DAPs in compact formfactor otherwise iMod in same league but it's need expensive lineout cable and external AMPs which comes togather around $1000. To me Kenwood is still better because it's slim and don't need extra bulk to acheive the best sound qual;ity from the DAPs.