Analyst / mother vents Vista frustrations to Ballmer
By Darren Murph 
posted October 11th 2007 9:22AM
posted October 11th 2007 9:22AM
Steve Ballmer has been doing quite a lot of talking lately, and his most recent noteworthy conversation came when he addressed an analyst and mother who was noticeably displeased with Windows Vista. During Mr. Ballmer's appearance at the Gartner Inc. conference in Orlando, Florida, Yvonne Genovese took the liberty of kvetching to him about her early adopter struggles. She explained that she felt the need to revert back to XP merely two days after caving to her daughter's request to pick up Vista for those "neat little things called gadgets." Steve went on to exclaim that he "loved her daughter," but the mom carried on by asking "what should people be seeing that we're not seeing?" As the debate unfolded, Ballmer insinuated that while there was "a lot of value in Vista," it has been more difficult for customers to implement due to heightened system requirements and a less-than-stellar amount of available device drivers at launch. Of course, he also noted that Service Pack 1 would address "a lot of the customer feedback," but we don't get the feeling that was what Ms. Genovese was looking to hear.
Very true, i find it funny how all the drivers missing is microsofts fault when its actually the hardware makers that sat aroudn with their fingers up their butt while vista was developed. I also find it funny how people installing Vista on a shitty computer is again microsofts fault. You can complain about the constant security nags, it is crap till you turn it off and sucks. But most other complaints are warrantless. The common person is just too stupid to know better. They dont even know that you can turn vista back to classic mode if you want to too. Idiots.
I think you forget that a lot of those 3rd party development teams were trying to write drivers for a moving target. How often did features get changed in Vista. Come on, the whole development got scrapped at one point and they had to start again from scratch. And MS is rather well known for keeping its API's to itself. For all you know their new sound stack is not compatible with creatives XP's hardware and that WOULD be MS's fault.
most people are not installing vista on computers that suck, they are replacing computers from vendors and can't afford to buy the $1000+ rigs that vista will run slick diggity dog on and the only option they have for an OS is vista and the minimally configured machine they can afford just doesn't get the job done.
@Wilky: Why are there still a few incompatibilities? Vista hasn't been a moving target for months.
Interestingly enough, drivers for my HP all-in-one printer were built-in to Vista when I had to install them from a CD in XP.
I was helping my inlaws with their brand new Vista Home Basic laptops. I'm a OSX/WinXP user and I was floored to find how bad Vista is.
I mean it's like XP with an ugly, resource hogging skin.\\
But copy-paste seems to take twice as long as on my iMac, at least! My inlaws are now installing XP on their new machines.
His 8-in-1 flash card reader did not work in Vista. A CARD READER!?!?!?!
Junk.
If the computer came running windows vista basic, it probably doesn't have the heft required to run vista. Besides, vista basic is a ripoff. aside from windows defender, which is free for xp too, you might as well run XP. Home premium on the other hand...
VISTA USERS:
Leopard is going to be released by the end of October and with it comes the most advanced features of ANY operating system. It's faster, more flexible, and far more capable than VISTA ever was.
And guess what? It will work FLAWLESSLY on your new computer.
Don't worry about incompatibility of whether you will need this hardware or the other.
Don't worry about incompatibility of whether this software will work with this hardware, because Apple controls the entire vertical system.
Don't worry about this virus or the other or downloading expensive and time consuming virus software... just get a virus-free Mac and be done with it.
You won't regret it.
Oh yeah... and the kicker. If you still want to run VISTA (maybe after SP2 gets the OS up to release standards) you can! Macs can run any operating system!
STFU you fanboi.
Pretty obvious you agree with every point I made, if your only response is "STFU fanboi".
Very intelligent.
I never get mac fans. First you don't want us Windows users to convert to Macs because if Mac actually becomes something useful to people other than graphic designers then people who attack Windows platforms with viruses will turn their attention to Macs. Now you WANT us to switch just to show off how flashy and locked down your OSes are.
Personally, I want an OS which is open to developers (XP, Vista, MS supplies various FREE IDE platforms and frameworks for software developers), I want an OS which is adaptable to my enviroment (games, themes, customisation on Vista's Aero theme may have gone down, however at least I can still CHANGE themes if I ever get bored of Aero or improved versions of Aero come along) and I want an OS which, although I'll admit has it's flaws, is more useable to a broad range of people, not just those making videos, music or images, which you can still do on Windows, however a bit slower. I'd also want an OS which can run on whatever computer I want, not just a Apple designed thing with 4-5 USB ports and expect that to be enough.
I'll hand it to Apple, OSX is a nice platform and is smooth, fast and visually impressive. However, Macs themselves are flawed, too little ports and too little diversity compared to other computers which can run Windows or Linux in terms of price. A 2.4Ghz DC iMac will set me back £1900. My 2.8Ghz DC Windows Vista desktop cost me just over £350.
"I never get mac fans. First you don't want us Windows users to convert to Macs because if Mac actually becomes something useful to people other than graphic designers then people who attack Windows platforms with viruses will turn their attention to Macs. Now you WANT us to switch just to show off how flashy and locked down your OSes are."
Mac OSX is inherently more stable and secure than Windows. You can't tell me there aren't people out their trying to write viruses for Macs... I thought you guys hated us MAC guys... what better way to wipe that smirk off of our faces than to write that first virus and prove it works!
The fact is you can't.
"Personally, I want an OS which is open to developers (XP, Vista, MS supplies various FREE IDE platforms and frameworks for software developers), I want an OS which is adaptable to my enviroment (games, themes, customisation on Vista's Aero theme may have gone down, however at least I can still CHANGE themes if I ever get bored of Aero or improved versions of Aero come along)"
I will look past the fact that you can do all of that with a mac using aftermarket software, and just tell you YOU CAN RUN WINDOWS ON A MAC. TWO OPERATING SYSTEMS ARE BETTER THAN ONE.
and I want an OS which, although I'll admit has it's flaws, is more useable to a broad range of people, not just those making videos, music or images, which you can still do on Windows, however a bit slower.
I will look past the fact that macs are better for almost EVERY task other than gaming, and just tell you YOU CAN RUN WINDOWS ON A MAC. TWO OPERATING SYSTEMS ARE BETTER THAN ONE.
"I'd also want an OS which can run on whatever computer I want, not just a Apple designed thing with 4-5 USB ports and expect that to be enough."
It's called a USB splitter. Ever heard of it?
"I'll hand it to Apple, OSX is a nice platform and is smooth, fast and visually impressive. However, Macs themselves are flawed, too little ports and too little diversity compared to other computers which can run Windows or Linux in terms of price. A 2.4Ghz DC iMac will set me back £1900. My 2.8Ghz DC Windows Vista desktop cost me just over £350."
Do a little research on that last fact. Macs are INCREDIBLY comparable in price if you are comparing similar systems. Apple doesn't make paired down crap computers which are outdated the minute they are purchased, but then again that doesn't sound like what you arelooking for based on the rest of your post. I find it hard eo believe you only spend 350 on that machine you need for all of that stuff.
The fact is that you really don't know the truth, and are hanging (for whatever reason) on to windows just out of spite. There can't be any logical reason since... MACS RUN WINDOWS!
Can I play Crysis, FEAR, or World in Conflict on it? Can I install it on my gaming rig (that has an 8800 GTX, rather than Apple's top of the line 7600 GT)?
I'd like to run OS X, but I don't particularly like paying $2500 for a system that has lesser specs than the box I built for $1700.
And it is of course impossible to run Rome Total War, Half-Life 2 or a multitude of other games on it...
She said that XP is "safe"?
What planet is she from? Here on earth, Windows (in all its pathetic variants), is an unreliable, unsecureable pile of crap.
Exactly- if you have the know-how, OSx86 is way better for PC users. The Apple experience with Panasonic toughness (or whatever brand of computer you use).
Plus, I bought the disc pre-patched from my local Apple reseller- seems the Chinese ones have a bit more freedom to do stuff than the American ones do.
what he is saying is:
IF you don't stop complaining about Vista and keep comparing it to MAC OSX I am going to flick these two giant buggers at you! Which are incidentally also the size of my nipples.
He is such a dork.
Hey, they pretty much copied it after all.
the problem with your statement of if you can't afford stick with XP is that most of the systems today do not come with an option to get winXP. They are loaded with 512mb and 1gb of RAM, an integrated video card barely able to display a simple 3d graphic and a version of vista. This is barely enough to run the OS in a mediocre mode but install MSOffice or any other fair sized application and then try to open and the system will start choking due to insufficient memory and your hard drive will die an early death.
This could be helped if vendors would just ensure that all systems come with 2gb if installed with vista. RAM is just to darn cheap today to be something they are skimping on. I have run across lots of ads in the past few days for 2gb or RAM for $49.
True.
I hate it when all the computer shops sell pcs with 'Vista Ready' stickers on them when they only have like 512mb ram and a slow processor. I think that is a BIG problem, because clearly the computers they are selling aint up to the job.
Derek, I own an iMac and I have had way more issues with compatibility with that machine then my Vista machine. I can't get my HP 6110 Printer to work on my MAC without going through a series of steps with the USB cable and restarting the machine. Also, Leopard may have nice features but talk about not being intuitive, Mac just makes no sense sometimes, ie to eject a disc, drag it to the trash? And they stole a ton of those ideas from Windows & Linux! IMO Vista is so much better, stable and faster than the iMac tiger I'm running now.
This is so obviously a lie, I find it hard to respond. There is virtually no one in the world that would claim that Vista is better than Leopard. You would probably be hard pressed to find a majority of peole that work for Microsoft that think so even.
Also, if you want to eject your disc, I would recommend the eject button on the keyboard, the eject button in the finder, or try simply right clicking on the icon and choosing eject from the menu.
Idiot.
...or hit the eject key that is RIGHT ON THE KEYBOARD, or hit command E. I bet if you actually learned how to use your computer it would work better for you.
And to all the trolls here that call everyone that says anything positve about Apple "fanboi,"
lick my apple flavored anus! I'll shit in six colors all over your drone face.
You are nothing more than an imitation-Apple fanbois! Windows was, and always will be a crappy imitation of the Mac OS, that is a FACT that you really can't deal with. You don't like to face the fact that you readily tolerate second rate garbage, it says something about your character, or lack of.
Microsoft is the Wal Mart of OSes, and all you fans are the fat, non thinking sweat-suit clad proletariats patronizing them.
Yes,because xcode and the cocoa apis are obviously inferior and not at all free. This is why the average OSX freeware program looks so endlessly inferior to Windows freeware (sarcasm).
Also, you can hack OSX to re-theme just like windows xp. I'm not even from a mac background and I know this stuff...
i could not agree with her more - vista rolls back almost every advance that pc's have made over the last 40 years and turns them into handheld calculators that require a button to be pushed for every single action that you want the computer to do.
Computers have lots of power for a reason - to do all the crap automatically that Microsoft now wants me to do so they don't get used in court for privacy/security concerns.
It's BS and MS knows it but they're too chicken to lose their monstrous nest egg to really put the neck on the line and really invent something completely fresh and new.
Nobody seems to remember times when they sold WinXP systems with only 128 MB of RAM-- and yet that is Microsoft's fault?
@Drakin: What is wrong with pretty things?
I am unfamiliar with pretty things, so therefor I bash them. Never had a pretty girlfriend, never a pretty parent, not even a pretty pet.
If it is something I do not know about, it is automatically bad & I condemn it.
Sorry, just a character flaw that comes from being raised by circus freaks.
Although I do find my mom's beard very pretty.
Hey that's pretty cute whoever did that.
Kind of off topic, but how come since it's a woman you write Analyst / mother in the headline? I seriously doubt you would have written Analyst / father in the headline had it been the exact same story had it been a male analyst instead of a female one. You can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the use of the word 'mother' in the headline reeks of an attempt to frame the analyst as a sympathetic character in this story (ie Big Bad Steve Ballmer vs the poor helpless mother).
Because she specifically mentions her daughter when filing her complaint to Ballmer?
But if it was a man who specifically mentioned his daughter I seriously doubt anyone would have written Analyst / father in the headline. Maybe it's just me but the inclusion of the word 'mother' in the headline seems manipulative.
We did an evaluation here at work. Our PC's range from 2ghz to Dual Core Dell's with 512 mb to 2 gb of memory. Vista did run ok to pretty good compared to XP but we lost several network printers and scanners due to no drivers. Replace working legacy hardware due to O/S upgrade...hmmm no. Strike one. Looked at what enhancements it brought to our users and if there were going to be any increase in productivity. Users were comfortable with XP. The sidebar could be done with Yahoo Widgets. Our files are all network based. No real improvements noticed except a faster boot time. Upheave a working environment to upgrade for next to no major improvements ? hmmm...no. Strike two. Looked at the future that Vista promised. Still NTFS file system. Utilization of dual and quad core. Not sure if Vista is going to provide any real speed boost in a networked environment. New user interface, Aero Glass, video desktop background....more toys than productivity boosters. Future ? hmmmm...no. Strike three. Go ahead and tell me how well it runs but is it a good value and will it increase department productivity after user time is spent re-adapting ? I just dont see it. Besides there are rumor of a new operating system Microsoft is working on to replace Vista in '09 or '10. Vista may become our next Windows ME.
Personally I'm delighted, there isn't a single thing on Vista Im interested in that I couldn't get better/faster/stronger from free apps on the net.
I'll stick with my cracked version of XP until some 'must have' new program grabs my interest and they only have a Vista version which is the only reason I crackgraded up to XP.
Let everyone else move up and take the malware writers with them, why on Gods Earth would I take the trouble to upgrade to slow my PC down, bearing in mind a sluggish PC is the most goddam annoying thing possible.
It's like Kawasaki saying we have this cool new upgrade for your bikes chip which lets you connect a GPS to it, but the bike will be 10% slower...er no thanks.
Ballmer looks like a grade D actor who's claim to fame is playing the part of the goofy neighbor who did nothing but add lousy comic releif to a crappy pilot episode of a show on Fox that never got picked up for 6 more episodes... and Vista sux
Vista is a sorry excuse for an OS, system requirements are too high for mass adoption, Not enough compatibility with older software, drivers take too long to install. Not to mention that it's cluttered and extremely slow when compared with XP/OSX/Linux. They are lucky they suckered so many people into trying vista, cause in my opinion it's practically worthless to anyone outside of gaming.
I've been running Vista Business 64bit for over 3months now with no issues at all. All the latest PC games work just fine on it. I run a Q6600/4GbRAM/Crossfire HD2900XT rig.
What's the big deal. Vista uses up a lot of resources. It's missing drivers. Most new OSs have this problem. I had installed Vista Ultimate on my MacBook Pro and it was okay even in running in a VM. I couldn't use any of the Aero features at the time since Parallels didn't support it.
Still I didn't think it was much more useful to me than Windows XP Pro. To me, Vista just seemed like a prettier version of Win XP. I eventually wiped Vista Ultimate and continued to use WinXP Pro. You use what suits ya. Vista did not seem like crappy OS. It just seemed to need more processing power to run efficiently.
I havent seen any differance? I think someone just wants to bitch...
hey derek, dont try to defend your mac when its having problems on its own. and dont try to tell us that you know better than all of us because you dont. i own a 17" Macbook Pro and i can tell you it is not as stable as you'd think it is... same with the macpro quad we have... vista (as ugly as it may look seem pretty snappy and responsive), and im typing on one now. it has always been a misconception by people that all designers/creative use a mac. NOT! in our post prod haws / design shop we still use our PCs because it is easier to upgrade when a new hardware comes out. unlike macs that you need to get a new system while your old remains as that -- old. and if ya want evidence here's a link to the site of one of the most awarded graphic design/interactive shops in the world (an i mean in the world) http://www.plat4m.com/, and guess what retard (and i mean you derek) they're using Vista on a PC! because most of us creatives/designers want to build our own (unlike you who just wants to show off their systems) and have control over it.
back on the OS, ive been running this rig: core 2 extreme 2.9g, 4g ram, 80GB primary HD, 500 secondary HD, nvidia 8800gtx on a 64 bit vista and it has been stable for the past 3 mos. compare it to our newly acquired quad core it is more responsive with graphic works and ofcourse games. and for losers like you (and i mean you derek) just shut your mouth and keep your fanboy comments to yourself. im just sick and tired of this mac vs pc thing... they both have their uses.
oh derek, u just ruined my day returd! :D haha.
@Derek: Really? Leopard will run on my non-Mac hardware?
Nooo.. try again.. The beachball of death will strike.
Joey sez:
"Windows 2010 Requirement:
5GHz Processor
8GB RAM (2GB for Operating System unnecessary fancy 3D effects)
2GB video card"
You forgot the dedicated physics card to handle windows gravity and collision dynamics when the windows explode into a million pieces when they are closed. Oh, and the 5.1 AC3 audio card required so that you can hear every file being shredded when you empty the recycle bin. SERIOUSLY FOLKS! DOES THE !@#$% OS REALLY NEED TO BE A VIDEO GAME!!! COULD WE JUST GET BACK TO BASICS WHERE A MACHINE CAN BOOT UP IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME AND LAUNCH APPLICATIONS AND NOT CRASH OR LOCKUP! SEESH!
wasn't that called DOS? :)
Yes, I actually just gave up on Vista in Parallels, going back to XP to get some actual work done. It was ridiculously slow, like old Virtual PC. Wasn't worth it.
I love it when I still see people arguing over Microsoft vs. Apple, using the same old tired arguments from 1998.
Why do I love it? I love it because it means all of those techies aren't doing anything productive with their time, which increases the demand (and therefore revenue) for technology consultants like me. :)
Argue on, I say, argue on! LOL
Someone should have told the mother that, like most journalists, she should be more familiar with the technology she reports on. If Vista runs like crap on her computer, maybe she needs to be a better administrator or, failing that, buy a computer specifically designed to run the new OS.
As everyone knows, most end users *never* upgrade their OS outside of purchasing an entirely new workstation.
In short: Journalist mom, go DIAF.
I like that her name is 'Genovese,' as well. Any relation to Kitty? How's that murdered family member working out for you there, Yvonne? About as good as Vista, huh?
I have a hard time accepting that an operating system has been 'improved' when it requires more resources to do the same job as the previous one.
Might it be stated that Vista is the proverbial "point of dimishing returns".
I was tasked to use Vista Ultimate for a month before giving a talk on Vista versus XP to the extended organisation.
Vista honestly has great features and eye candy. My audience were WOWed by the media centre (of cos I tagged the pictures too to demonstrate Spotlight) and video playing.
It is more secured as compared to XP, but as I told some participants after the presentation, my personal view is that its not something to rush out for. If it comes with a new PC, just take it, but not otherwise.
U must remember that my audience are not your typical hardware d-i-y or freqent upgrader. Most bought their HP/Dell about 2 to 3 years ago, so the chances that Vista would run with limited performance would be VERY high.
Other than the media centre, I hated using Vista. I uninstalled it right after my presentation, and am happy running XP SP2 with Yahoo Widgets, Picasa, Google Desktop search at work. XP SP3 will only give my XP more good years.
p/s - I use OS X Tiger at home on my Mac Mini and love it just as much.
I am very satisfied with Vista, especially its security and search functionality. It may just be a fluke, but I have considerable /fewer/ OS and application-related problems since the upgrade from XP.
And the fact that Mac OS had some of Vista's features first does not diminish their value to me, a lifelong Windows user.