It's no surprise to hear that
Leopard smokes on the latest Intel box, right? That's all fine and dandy for new Mac owners but what about the rest of us (the majority) who are still pumping that legacy PowerPC architecture beneath Cupertino's OS? How does Apple's
OS of tomorrow run on say, an 8 year old Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics)? We decided to find out. Our test machine sports a paltry 512MB and 1GHz clock courtesy of an after-market CPU upgrade (was 400MHz) -- just a tad better than the 867MHz / 512MB minimum requirement. While the box held up surprisingly well, there's one major problem which you old-timers should be aware of.
Let's get to it.
Oops, that's not the appropriate resolution for our screen, Apple. Nevertheless, everything we need is front and center. With our 20GB disk formatted down to a paltry 19GB, we braced for a clean install. There's always that secondary disk sporting Tiger... just in case.
Of course, the first thing we did was to pare back the installation from 11.4GB to 5.9GB by deselecting the Printer Drivers, Additional Fonts, Language Translations, and X11 support from the default install. We can always add them later, dig?
The initial estimate of 32 minutes actually took only 20 minutes to install -- no upgrade here folks, just a clean OS. Peppy, and much faster than we had anticipated. We were up and dancing on the desktop and on our WiFi network in another 8 minutes after answering a few setup and configuration questions.
Mmmm, spacey.
Yes, it's true.
With a whopping 12.78GB left over, we're ready to start testing apps. If you've already been using Tiger on your G4 then you won't notice any performance difference -- it's still pretty snappy. Granted, you won't get Stevenote-like cached performance but it's certainly acceptable for casual use.
Surely, however, our ATI Rage 128 Pro graphics card will choke on all the fancy graphics. Well, yes and no. Here's what worked:
- Spaces and Expose
- File stacks and fans
- Quick Look
- YouTube videos
- Coverflow too, after waiting a bit for the images to load -- subsequent pans are lickity quick
And what didn't:
- Time Machine -- Oh it backed up the data ok which is the important bit we guess. However, you can't get to it using their nifty time traveling interface. Not that we expected to. Launching the Time Machine app sends our G4 into a black hole of despair. After bringing up a few random finder windows our Power Mac inevitably manages to escape from the other side after about a minute of machine-locking terror.
- DVD Player -- Unexpectedly bad news here folks. No matter what we did, even swapping out our after-market Pioneer DVR-104 for the original Matshita PD-2 LF-D110 DVD-ROM drive, Apple's player crashes with that error above. No Disney for you kids!
- VLC 0.8.6c -- Ok, it's not an official part of the OS but with Apple's DVD Player giving up the ghost we had to do something. Sadly, VLC is dropping about 25% of the frames making the viewing experience, well, awful. Thing is, this version works just fine in Tiger. We're hoping (really hoping!) for an updated release soon.
- Front Row -- What, you don't expect miracles do you? The application loaded, we could hear it, but the screen was black making it worthless.
So what's the bottom line? We wish it were as simple as a one sentence summary. We'd like to recommend a G4 running Leopard as your kid's computer. After all, this version finally brings some useful Parental Controls onto the scene to lock down, monitor, and more importantly, simplify the interface for your youngsters. You can even monitor their use without having to fire up Apple's Remote Desktop or some janky VNC application -- it's all baked in and automatically setup. Even the parental controls can be remotely managed without ever having to enter the scorched plastic hellscape of your toddlers room. However, without the ability to playback movies, you're missing out on the whole electronic-babysitter angle. That's why we're leaving ours in dual-boot Leopard / Tiger mode for now. You just never know when 90 minutes of silence might be required.
whats your G-Card?
Joseph:
My PowerBook G4 has a NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 with 64MB of DDR SDRAM.
Wow, I'm surprised that you used up one of your 5 family pack licenses on such an old Mac. You did get a family pack Giz now didn't you? Using the same disk you already upgraded another Mac with would be naughty, I'm sure you wouldn't have done that!
Yes I belive you when you say their are some suspect Windows vendors out there, But I belive Microsoft could still do more. As a Mac user I had untold trouble finding drivers for a Windows machine when I had to reinstall the OS, In the end a friend told me about DriverGuide.com, this solved the problem in the end. Why can't Microsoft create a website like that. Vendors can send their drivers to Microsoft, Microsoft checks it for stability adds infomation about it then allows Windows users to download it from their site, That would ease a lot of hassle when finding drivers. Maybe they have a site like this already, if so it's not easy to find.
I'll bet that many if not all of those apps would work if you put at least a Radeon 7000 in there. It's going to require a Quartz Extreme compatible video card.
No, it is Core Image/Core Animation that you need support for. A Radeon 7000 won't be enough. You would need at least a Radeon 9500-9800 class GPU or better or an nVidia FX5200 or better.
Yes it can be done but why, EWW GROSS!
I have the 1.25 GHz powerpc G4, its alright for what I use it for..but I have had my eye on that Mac Pro yum yums
Works fine on my G4 iBook :p, of course I also use a new iMac.
What most of you guys seem to forget is that this is not really a supported 1GHz system this is a 433MHz system which is clearly not supported upgraded with a faster CPU and a little more then out of the box ram.
So all those issues like DVD playback, Front Row and YouTube are relating to the graphic card being from the 19 hundreds and not the "slow" cpu.
This is basically like installing leopard on a fast stationary machine and then swapping out the drive to an old G3 iMac
My I forgot how ugly that thing was. My girlfriend at the time loved that box, I kept looking for a mouse with right click that would work on it when I had to get my photoshop work done when staying at her place...good times. I'll miss her. (The Mac or the girl, I'll let you decide)
I run Tiger on a dual 450MHZ powermac w/ 1.5GB of PC100 ram and I swear to you my machine runs faster than my 2.8GHZ PC at work that is less than a year old. Right now Safari, Firefox, Mail, Photoshop, Transmit, Illustrator, and iTunes are open without any hiccups. It seems like for those with an old G4 they are better off using Tiger.
[c]
I'm running a dual 450 too. works fine. seven years and counting 1.25 gb ram and booting off of a 250 meg firewire drive.
What is the cheapest available video card that I can install in my old PowerMac G4 Dual-533 that will let it run everything (getting around the processor requirements by installing on a firewire drive hooked up to my MacBook and then cloning that over)? I'm perfectly willing to buy a PC card and flash it if that actually works. Can I spend less than $100 and get a system that will run everything? Leopard isn't suppose to be slower on G4s, I think the minimum requirements are, as noted, based on what video cards were available on those Macs originally.)
Well the QS 867 uses an Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32mb card, so I reckon that's the minimum. I would have thought one of those would be pretty cheap.
Can't use the clone from your MB as it will install the intel binaries of the OS, not the PPC...
I am using a flashed Radeon 9700 in my DA 533 and it supports both QE and CI. Any card from the 9500-9800 family will have enough power to do it.
OS X 10.5 Server runs well as my home server on a 400 MHz AGP G4 with 704 MB of RAM. Of course I did have to "fix" the script that checks for the minimal requirements. Here's a link to a detailed guide on installing Leopard on unsupported machines: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=371302
well guys, I'm running 536 dual processor G-4
it's old and bold, but it would scream over any windows machine running at up to 1.3 ghz I have two sons using windows machines, a gateway and an HP, and they always complain about something. I maynot be able to upgrade to 10.5, but this machine does what ever I want it too.
I'm running it on a PowerBook 1.67 G4, 2 GIGs of RAM, runs like a champ. Everything works except the iChat special effects. Which is BS, it could work, but it doesn't.
I installed Leopard yesterday. It aks for a password when attempting to install other software, and when it boot up, but it won't accept the only one I use. It blocks me at that point, and is now useless. I reset the password and it still will not recognize it. This is on an old G4 dual processor, so now I'm limping along back in Os 9 with no way to shut off this password protection and get my CAD ap installed.
don't know if it'll help.. but you might want to check out this article at Apple:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306840
title: "Mac OS X 10.5: Unable to log in to account after an upgrade install"
MACS just work, I had Vista since it came out and although it worked good and i was satisfied when i swithced to mac, it felt like i spent more time doing my work and less time "trying" to do my work. Mac OS just works.. everything is thought out, especiallys mall details.
I've got Leopard running on my 867MHz G4 quicksilver with a Geforce 2 MX G card and just 512Mb of RAM and it works great!
Just two things so far, Front row had a problems with screen going black every few seconds but I fixed that by turning the screen saver off in the setting.
And there seems to be a problem running video in iChat. It says I have a 'slow network' but from what I've read it should work fine. So I'm working on that one.
Overall well done Apple for getting it running on my 6 year old G4!
I have a question: and who exactly gives a damn about this, again?
Anyone with an unsupported G4 Macintosh cares. If you have nothing constructive to contribute to the discussion, then stay out of it.
I installed Leopard on a PowerMac yesterday. It works very well though I have not yet tested Time Machine or Front Row. I'm not sure of the processor speed but it has 1GB of Ram and a 76GB HD
So who's going to be the first to grouse about Leopard "requiring" you to upgrade your machine in order to run it correctly the way countless people still do about Vista?
Nobody? I read all the comments and there is not one person complaining that basic OS features don't work on an old machine, not because they *do* work, but apparently for some other reason.
As long as it's Apple, nobody will care if it doesn't work.
I've been wondering just how does Leopard work on a Power Mac Dual G4/867MHz (Mirror Doors)? Come on share?
I installed Leopard on my dual 500mhz "Mystic" by editing the Distribution script on the DVD to remove the 867mhz limit, and restoring the cloned sparseimage to a spare hard drive and booting it. With my flashed Geforce 6200 video card w/256meg RAM, it runs just a tad slower than Tiger. I haven't tested DVD Player, Front Row, or Time Machine, but I wouldn't use them anyway.
The only limit, really, is G3 processors, since Leopard requires Altivec to run. The DVD won't even boot on a G3.
Details on how to do this at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=371302
Cool you upgraded to the 1GHz first. Anyone wanna help me talk Leopard into installing on my 800MHz PowerMac G4. The installer won't even let me. I'm trying a copy of beta build 9a527 first, could that be the problem?
There are a few ways you might try. You can try installing it to an external drive from a supported machine and then attaching the drive to an unsupported one. You can then either boot from the external drive or clone the external drive to the internal one. You can also take your internal drive out of an unsupported machine and install it to a supported one, install Leopard, and then swap it back into your unsupported machine. Try to make sure you use a PowerPC Mac for this. It isn't known yet whether installing on an Intel machine and then trying to use the installation on a PPC machine will work, but I expect the installer will put the appropriate code for the CPU it finds onto the hard drive, so you wouldn't be able to run an Intel optimized install on a PPC machine if that is the case. You can also make a backup of the Leopard DVD and hack the installer so that it will install to the unsupported machine. If Apple is sticking with their usual practice, there will be a file on the install disc someplace with a list of unsupported hardware. Find your machine on that list, remove it, and then save the altered file over the original and you should be able to install it normally. If you have several unsupported machines, you can just remove all the machines from the list and save the file back so when it looks for unsupported hardware, it doesn't find any, but the file does still have to be there for the installer to work, you can't just delete the file outright and if there is other data in the file besides just the list of unsupported hardware, that has to be left intact. There are other ways that are more complicated to bypass the installer, but there isn't enough space to go into all of them here. Google may help you find some of them.
No DVD Player, No Dice. I have a few G4 eMacs & a G4 tower all with CD drives. Thanks APPLE!
The Time Machine issue may be related to your weak video card. In fact, most of the graphics related issues may be solved with a better video card that supports both QE and CI. Try upgrading to a video card to a Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition, or any flashed 9500-9800 family video card from a PC and you may have better luck.
I've got almost the same setup: Emac 1 Ghz PPC g4 - 640mb sdram
When I've had Leopard just installed FrontRow worked just fine!
but later on when I installed some updates.. it all went wrong!
Itunes can't play coverflow anymore... Frontrow doesn't work anymore at all! just a black screen.
and the dvd player gives the same weird error!
It has worked before... so we can also fix it!?!? :)
I have Leopard installed on a PowerBook G4 400Mhz with 1GB of RAM. I haven't tried the DVD player, but then I have a box under my telly for that and even with Tiger I never used it.
It runs very well considering. I think Apples minimum specs are way off and they could have included a lot lower specs than the 867Mhz cut off.
Most things run ok, CoverFlow is a little jagged, but everything else fine. There is also supposed to be a problem with TimeMachine under such low specs but I haven't tried those yet.
For a machine with have the processor speed of the minimum specs the performance is amazing and Finder tasks are no different in speed to Tiger.
I too have a mission to get this on a G3. I will keep you posted.
TheMactivist
Very imformative...thank you!
I want to buy Leopard and run it on my:
1.07ghz
power pc
iBookG4
768 mb ddr sdram
10.3.9
Apple tell me I should not unless I have at least 1 gb of ram, despite me having the 'minimum system requirements'.
All I will be using is Safari and iTunes, maybe iPhoto. I will be buying a new model next year but need to get at least Tiger running just now as I want to run Airport Extreme Base Station.
Will youtube videos run ok?
Please help...