Netflix to loosen restrictions on internet viewing option

Granted, there are some out there who've been dodging the whole "limitation" aspect of Netflix's Watch Instantly feature for a good while, but for the honest, upstanding citizens abiding by the rules, things are (seemingly) about to change for the better. According to a recent report from the AP, Netflix is gearing up to banish the time limits for online streaming on all but its el cheapo $4.99 plan, meaning that subscribers to every other plan will be able to watch online content as much as they'd like. In case you haven't connected the dots quite yet, it's being suggested that the move will be made to fend off the looming competition from Cupertino, and while this would undoubtedly increase costs, it doesn't seem as if the firm plans on hiking rates (at least initially) to compensate. Now that's a change we can live with.

[Barry @ Jan 13th 2008 10:16PM]

I wish they'd hurry up with the Mac support.

[Imok20 @ Jan 13th 2008 10:49PM]

Second that.

[Sean O @ Jan 13th 2008 10:59PM]

Don't complain to Netflix. They would love nothing more than to be able to support OSX. Apple won't allow it. Apple won't license their FairPlay DRM to them. Movie studios require everyone to use DRM, especially for unlimited streaming services.

[Tom Boucher @ Jan 13th 2008 11:13PM]

amazingly enough you don't need fairplay DRM to play on a Macintosh.

I'll cancel my subscription to netflix in a heart beat if I can get something similar from apple that works on my platform of choice and better yet doesn't have me waiting a few days between movies. Having time to watch them over christmas sucked because of the holidays meaning no mail delivery. A movie returned on the 23rd meant no movie back at the house until the 2nd when usually it's a 72 hour turnaround.

[tubes @ Jan 14th 2008 1:13PM]

I thought the Netflix app used Silverlight, does it not? If so, then Silverlight works fine on Mac. (I'm using it on a G5 iMac.)

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 12:10AM]

@Tom
Please, enlighten us. How Netflix can provide DRM-protected service on OSX without Apple allowing them to use FairPlay? I'd love to hear all about it.

[Sean O @ Mar 20th 2008 4:32PM]

No, Netflix does not use Silverlight. They showed a concept demo of it back in May, but they don't use it. Silverlight uses a new DRM. Have movie studios even approved this yet? I have no idea. What I do know is that if Apple allowed Netflix to use FairPlay, I would have had the service on my Mac a year ago instead of maybe sometime in 2008 if and when they can switch to Silverlight.

[namtastic @ Jan 14th 2008 12:32AM]

@Sean O,

Please don't keep propagating the myth that Fairplay somehow equals all Macintosh DRM.

Windows Media for OS X had its own DRM.
Microsoft Silverlight has its own DRM.
Macrovision licenses DRM for Macintosh as part of its core business.
Hell, even Liquid Audio in the mid 90s had its own, custom DRM for Macintoshes.

Fairplay is *only* about DRM content support on iPods. Not Macs, iPods.

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 1:06AM]

@namtastic

You miss the point. Name ONE single reasonable option Netflix had to provide their service on OSX without using FairPlay. One. And don't say Silverlight. I'm not talking about something that's 5 minutes old. I'm talking about 2006 when they developed their service. It was either develop their own DRM (year right, that's practical) or wait it out.

You are propagating the myth that Netflix is some arrogant company that cares nothing about Mac users.

My point is very, very simple. OSX users who are peeved about no Netflix on their Mac (like me) for the past year have only one company to blame. Apple, not Netflix.

[dg @ Jan 14th 2008 1:26AM]

@sean o

I don't know, it seems to me that you're the one that missed the point. Now I don't know which of either the FairPlay requirement, or third-party OS X DRM option are true, but you seem to agree that third-party is an option, so long as it exists. Why would Netflix have to "wait it out" when there have been DRM options for OS X available since the 90's, as namtastic stated? Microsoft, Macrovision, and I'm sure tens of other companies are willing to supply or develop an OS X DRM and have it certified if the biggest online rental company in the world(?) is looking for one.

[dg @ Jan 14th 2008 1:29AM]

^ ^ ^ Edit: DRM options for the Mac available since the 90's*

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 2:08AM]

@dg
You misunderstood namtastic's (misleading) post. He's talking about the old and defunct WMP DRM. Netflix uses the newest Windows Media 11 DRM (likley required to by the studios). WM11 DRM doesn't work on OSX.

Macrovision does not provide the kind of tools and service which Netflix required (codec, media player, plugin and DRM scheme). Even if it did, it would need the studios' stamp of approval. Only Microsoft, Apple, and RealNetworks provide the necessary components. That said, I don't even know if Real has the capability or permission to provide studio movie services.

[JohnQPoster @ Jan 14th 2008 2:38AM]

Does anyone know what kind of DRM they are using. Once you answer that question then you will know who is at fault. Most often it is the developer. Apple's DRM works on both Macs and PCs. Should not the other guy's DRM do the same?

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 2:55AM]

No, it's not that simple. First to answer your question, the DRM it uses is Windows Media 11. Microsoft is not responsible for providing DRM for OSX. They tried with their old DRM (PlayForSure). It was cracked and MS doesn't support it anymore.

Providing protected content on OSX is Apple's responsibility, not Microsoft's, not Netflix's. Apple provides their own DRM, and yes it works on PCs too. The problem is that nobody but Apple is allowed to use it.

Microsoft, not Apple, has just developed a Flash-video type technology with DRM support. It is called Silverlight. It is cross-platform (works on Mac or PC). Netflix demoed a concept version of their service using Silverlight. Hopefully we'll see it soon. There could be technological setbacks. There could be issues with the studios. There could be issues with deals they made with Microsoft last year. Who knows.

The bottom line is that Netflix service hasn't been on Macs for the past year because Apple won't license out FairPlay.

[JohnQPoster @ Jan 14th 2008 3:52AM]

Sean O

Please explain why Microsoft should not make it compatible. I can only think of 2 reasons. They lack skill as a software developer and are destine to be a follower, or there market is so large they just don't care about Mac user's as customers. This is what got them in trouble before with the DOJ. I think they are just stuck on stupid. With there size and cash reserves you can't tell me that can't develop the software.

[dg @ Jan 14th 2008 11:55AM]

@sean

Ahhh... makes sense now. Thanks. I forgot about the WM11 Windows only thing too.

@JohnQ

Although Microsoft isn't a Mac-user's best friend, they are still a capable software company. Maybe they favor things like money before a best product possible, but they can still do something if they really want to (and yes, I'm a devoted Mac user, I'll never touch windows again if I don't have to). My guess is that Microsoft, more or less, doesn't care about Macs; and with good reason. It's not their platform! I'm sure WM11 support may come around eventually, but they have more important things to do like keep Vista up and running, and making sure WM11 works great on Windows, before they go making a free product for OS X, plus I'm sure they don't mind NOT spending the money to support OS X, AND perhaps keep some marketshare from those people on the edge who might just really like watching Netflix online.

It'll come, eventually.

[rp @ Jan 14th 2008 2:42PM]

Class action lawsuit, please. Last time I checked I pay the same price as other users who can actually use the watch online feature. Give me my ball back, I'm going home.

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 10:03PM]

@JohnQ

Do you have any idea what a stupid, idiotic comment that is? You think Microsoft should be paying to make sure Netflix's video service can work on Apple OSX? You do realize that Netflix and MS are two different companies, right? So should Apple then in turn be providing Netflix the technology to provide their service on Windows?

[David S @ Jan 13th 2008 10:21PM]

Still waiting for OS X support or firefox support.

[m @ Jan 14th 2008 12:08AM]

did anybody try it with parallels or vmware? and surely it'd work through bootcamp.

[yoshi @ Jan 14th 2008 12:41AM]

It works fine with bootcamp. Parallels is a piece of garbage and it's real slow (unusable) with it. Haven't tried VMWare.

But I stopped using Vista after I got my first, "You added more RAM on your computer and we have to make sure you're not a thief, so until you call this number, all your content are belong to us" message. Yes, I own a legitimate copy. And, BTW, if Apple starts doing the same thing, I'll drop them too. So it's either Mac or Linux for me. And Netflix works with neither.

[m @ Jan 14th 2008 12:52AM]

amen to that.

[dg @ Jan 14th 2008 12:48AM]

Maybe the unlimited update will come with a new player, perhaps using Silverlight, and will be Mac-Linux, and Mozilla-Safari compatible. I personally don't believe the whole iTunes 24-hour $3.99 rental program. I would never pay that when you have Netflix offering almost the same service for an hour per dollar (in your plan) on top of their main mail-rental business, and now considering it to go unlimited. Apple will likely have a time-limit of something closer to a month, with the more important limits being on download quantity. Maybe I'm wrong, but they've gotta throw something in there that's totally different or it wouldn't be Apple. They don't put out products or services unless they a) Invent/re-invent them or b) change something key in they way it works.

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 2:26AM]

This really no different than PPV from cable or satellite. Expensive and lasts 24 hours. The only advantage is you can put it on your iPod. That's cool if you travel a lot I guess. But movies shouldn't be watched on a tiny screen like that. David Lynch explains it best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0

[dg @ Jan 14th 2008 11:57AM]

"This really no different than PPV from cable or satellite. Expensive and lasts 24 hours"

That's exactly my point. It's no different. That's not something Apple does. They ALWAYS make it different.

[Mike @ Jan 13th 2008 10:26PM]

A-men re: Netflix Watch Now Mac support. I know it was going to be implemented with a new technology that works similar to Flash but competes with it), but so far, nothing. I would use it in a heartbeat if it worked on the Mac. If Apple comes out with something similar to what Netflix is offering now, I may partially jump ship and reduce my Netflix rental plan to the lowest option to cover renting movies on my Mac through iTunes.

[Javaflash @ Jan 13th 2008 10:28PM]

This is actually an excellent service. I wish the selection is better, but that has more to do with movie studio. Playback quality + ease of use is close to a regular DVD (way better than iTunes, Unbox, Movielinks).

I hope they'd hurry up on the Firefox support also. At the moment, it's IE only.

[dg @ Jan 14th 2008 12:56AM]

Do we know if Netflix pays out to the studios for each online viewing? Or even if they pay reoccuringly to be able to host and stream the movies?

If Apple's deal with the studios pays out a percentage per rental I'm sure they'll have no problem supplying iTunes with almost all new releases. Studios don't get cash from each physical Blockbuster or Netflix rental, they only get wholesale DVD price out of them. I'm sure they'd make more off of a percentage per iTunes rental (eventually, as people get more accustomed to online downloading).

[Jamus @ Jan 13th 2008 10:34PM]

They want to head off Cupertino? Try pushing some Mac-luvving out the door. That would do it for me.

[Bob @ Jan 13th 2008 10:39PM]

And make it compatible with the Xbox 360 while you're at it, Netflix guys. Thanks!

[Jared @ Jan 14th 2008 12:07AM]

I second that, I see no issues with being able to download them on xbox other than xbl already allows rental. It would really fit in with microsofts goal of making the xbox a central part of your living room.

[brandon_r87 @ Jan 13th 2008 10:48PM]

If I could use it in Firefox and Linux, I'd consider using it, but as it is, I would rather just rent the movie and get it in full quality. I think even if it did work in Firefox, I would use it only to preview a movie to see if it's worth a rent.

[mike mitchell @ Jan 13th 2008 10:51PM]

Taken from http://blog.netflix.com/2007/08/instant-watching-on-mac-firefox-and.html
"
A key issue for delivering movies online is that the studios require use of DRM (Digital Rights Management) to protect titles. And that's our holdup for the Mac - there's not yet a studio-sanctioned, publicly-available Mac DRM solution (Apple doesn't license theirs). I can promise you that, when an approved solution becomes available for the Mac, we'll be there. I'll also say that Silverlight 1.1 looks like a promising candidate - but that its DRM isn't likely to be fully available until 2008.
"

[yoshi @ Jan 14th 2008 12:44AM]

That's just marketing-speak to keep the Mac users pacified. If Netflix and the studios wanted it on the Mac, it would be on the Mac. And there's not one thing Apple could do about it.

[RikF @ Jan 14th 2008 1:19AM]

Netflix is a rental company, not a software company. Where, pray tell, are they going to come up with this new streaming DRM system? It took an organisation the size of the BBC long enough...

[Sean O @ Jan 14th 2008 2:36AM]

@yoshi

What does Netflix gain by not having it on the Mac? Nothing. They gain nothing, yet lose potential customers. Think about it. There's no anti-Mac conspiracy going on. Netflix cannot do it yet. Period.

What the good poeple are saying is true. There is no viable option for them to put there service on the Mac. If Apple chose to license FairPlay, then there would be. Silverlight is the first possible alternative (developed by Mircosoft ironically). Hopefully that will happen soon.

[tekdemon @ Jan 14th 2008 3:24AM]

Yes yoshi, I'm sure netflix wants their Mac customers to leave them and use iTunes.
Oh wait, no, they have every incentive to have it work on a Mac, there is no vast conspiracy against you, you are not a Mac martyr.

And seriously, anybody who has an x86 Mac should have XP installed on it anyways for the bazillion little apps out there that are windows only, and for old school gaming, lol.

[yoshi @ Jan 14th 2008 11:29AM]

Wow, take a chill pill guys.

I didn't say anything about some Vast Netflix Conspiracy, did I? I said that if Netflix and the studios wanted that content on the Mac, then it would be on the Mac. I did not speculate on the reason at all, just the fact that if they wanted it done, it would be done. It's that simple.

There are no technological reasons why they cannot do this. None. Zero. Zip. There is nothing that Apple is doing to prevent them from doing this. Nothing. While Apple may not be HELPING them do it, Apple is not PREVENTING them from doing it.

So, since the Netflix service is not available for the Mac, Netflix must not want their service on the Mac. Or, more precisely, they must not want their service on the Mac enough so that they will do what it takes to get it on the Mac. Which just means that they were not willing to either do it themselves or hire someone else to do it. Which, I am sure, just boils down to the cost/benefit analysis of whether it was worth it. They decided that the cost was not worth the benefit.

So, if Apple comes out with anything approaching a reasonable rental plan (and what has been reported so far is far from reasonable), Netflix may lose a few Mac customers. There is still a benefit to receiving the physical DVD, so I doubt they'll be hurt too badly by whatever Apple announces. Netflix took a gamble and they will probably come out ahead overall. I probably would have made the same cost/benefit decision to not go out of my way to bring the content to the Mac. But it WAS Netflix's decision.

[Heffer @ Jan 14th 2008 1:31PM]

@Yoshi - You are so naive. Have you ever worked in business? Its never that simple. Greed, Legalalities, Egos, Strategic Positioning, etc...

[Bob @ Jan 13th 2008 10:53PM]

The real news is where this could go when combined with the previous Netflix announcement of having a set top box that gets these (now unlimited) movies onto your TV:

http://www.techconsumer.com/2008/01/13/netflix-preemptively-takes-on-apple-unlimited-online-movies/

[Joshua Walters @ Jan 13th 2008 10:55PM]

If they do that, I will cancel my BlockBuster online plan, and switch.

Thats about the only thing keeping me. (I enjoy Blockbuster games at $5, but unlimited movies sounds better)

[Scott @ Jan 14th 2008 12:54PM]

I checked my plan just now and it's a done deal. Time to phone the Blockbuster CSRs! :)

[Joshua Walters @ Jan 14th 2008 7:41PM]

Heck Yes!

It kinda sounded like a done deal when i read about it on my phone later in the night. Verizon's writer phrased it like it would come in effect at Midnight Monday (and it did).

I may hold on for a week or so till I get my computer hooked up to a new TV, but Im psyched now!

Now, I need to find a nice one month trial. Two weeks is cool, but bigger is better!

[Dustin @ Jan 13th 2008 11:00PM]

I'm considering hooking up and old PC just to take advantage of this because I can't use it on my MAC. Lame.

[RB @ Jan 13th 2008 11:40PM]

I have my Mac Mini hooked up to my TV and use the Netflix online viewing via Parallels. Works alright but it would be a hell of a lot better using it natively on the Mac. Otherwise not too shabby, but it really could use a larger video selection.

[Jonathan Bergeron @ Jan 13th 2008 11:03PM]

This is awesome. I've been a Netflix subscriber for about 2 years now; but I haven't watched their online movies because the restrictions are kinda stupid. Good move on their part to relax those restrictions.

[Aaron @ Jan 13th 2008 11:55PM]

This makes no sense. You?: "I restricted my viewing from (probably) 17 hours a week to zero hours per week because I don't like the 17 hour restriction."

[Jonathan Bergeron @ Jan 14th 2008 10:30AM]

Glad I could irritate you. My Monday is complete.

[Heffer @ Jan 14th 2008 1:31PM]

Agree w/ Aaron. You didn't even try it out b/c you didn't like the term? Huh?

[Aaron @ Jan 13th 2008 11:22PM]

For HD HTPC users that have Netflix and use the "Watch Now" feature, how good is the quality? I looked on Netflix.com and there is nothing that talks about resolution or quality. I am guessing you are not getting 720P even on the TV HD material.