Where the
failed promise of Managed Copy on
Blu-ray and HD DVD left us all hanging, Apple, iTunes, and Fox have oddly picked up the pieces. As paradoxically quietly announced at
this week's Jobsnote, the new Family Guy Presents Blue Harvest DVD comes with an included movie file that one can pull off the disc onto their machine -- but only by making use of an included code (and a copy of iTunes with a valid account, of course), which ensures the DRM is still there. What's unclear is whether the movie file is DRMed
before being pulled off the disc, or is encrypted specific to one's account during the process of download from the disc. Ultimately these details won't change the fact that iTunes Digital Copy is a ripe target for people who wants to legitimately buy their media, yet doesn't think it should be friggin' rights managed. Crazy, we know.
posted Jan 16th 2008 11:44PM
This is the equivalent of putting a Fairplay-laden set of AAC files on a CD.
Why would you bother when you can rip your own un-DRM'd mp3's?
Well, the thing is that technically you aren't allowed to rip the movie, and many people don't know how to do it on their own. And since they get it just as a bonus, you really can't complain about it. I mean, it's better than nothing. If they were selling you an Apple-playable only file on a disk, then sure, that would be a ripoff, but you can still play the DVD as usual.
It sucks that you can't just get a regular copy since all it really does is stop people who legitimately own the media from getting a copy, but still, this is at least A Step in the Right Direction.
"Well the thing is that technically you aren't allowed to rip the movie"
I don't know to which technicality you are referring, but the thing is that LEGALLY you ARE allowed to rip the movie, and legal trumps technical.
It's called Fair Use. Look it up.
roflercopterer,
The DMCA overrode Fair Use and it is Illegal to circumvent and copy protection on DVD's (which all commercial dvd's have). Look it up
Hmm, sounds like it would be "better" to simply buy the movie anyway, and when you want a rip get it from Usenet. So, you own the movie and your download isn't enabling others to download it (like typical torrent clients).
So just another way to try and force people to install iTunes.
Bought an iPhone? Need iTunes to activate it.
Bought this film? Need iTunes to play the digital copy on your computer.
Sounds like an antitrust case in the making. To be fair they should of made it an avi then it can be played on every OS out there without the need to install a third party app.
um they did, there is also a WMP version. so you can use it with itunes, on macs. and pc's, or wmp on pc's
I bought the dvd to try it out, it was awsome and super easy, then after i went....WWOOOOO I just bought a DVD, first DVD i have ever bought. now that says something.
According to the story you can only pull the file off of this particular film if you have iTunes and an active iTunes account.
well I have a copy and it supports WMP, also the original story this article is based on also talks about WMP
Yes as I said in a later comment I now see that you do not need iTunes just that this story was badly written.
What's on the disk is just the interface to enter the code. When you put the disk in (on a mac anyway), it will open iTunes and attempt to connect to the iTunes store. Once you enter the code, it will download the movie into iTunes from presumably the iTunes store. I got an 11556 error for about 2 hours last night before it would work (I think the store was just being hammered), but after that it downloaded fine and looks great with just very minor interlacing occasionally.
So it does not rip the movie off the disk, but instead it checks the code from the disk to make sure nobody else downloads it from iTunes after you return/sell it? But after all this you basically end up dl from iTunes?
David, if you read my article, you'd see that I mentioned about this.
iTunes uses the term "download" when transferring the file from the DVD. Though it looks like it is downloading from the online store, it is actually copying the movie file from the DVD. I know this because instead of taking 10 minutes to download a movie, it took just a few seconds. Also, the disc was spinning like crazy during the "download."
@Luck... where is the article you posted?
My friend has this DVD (haven't got mine yet) and he was confused about where it was downloading the movie from from.. iTunes or from the DVD. So you have verified it is copying from the DVD.
I am curious to read your article on this.
I still don't see the point of DRM on these new released digital copies. Ripping the original DVD seems so simple now that many people can buy legitimate softwares to rip those dvds and put the file onto PMPs without worrying about DRM locks.
Considering that it is illegal to rip most DVDs, there is no legitimate software that can be purchased to do what you say.
Buy software? You are such a Vista! That's right, from now on, Vista will be synonymous with a dummy.
Get with the program. Use Handbrake it's open source, cross platform and free.
It is, however, illegal to use Handbrake, et al., to rip content from an encrypted DVD. Since all commercial DVDs are encrypted...
Being open source doesn't make its use legal.
You need to move out of the US and the craziness of the DMCA, man. Nowhere else in the world (afaik) has this stupid law.
Try taking your laptop + DVD just past the Canada/Mexico border, sit down and rip + burn the DVD. Then cross back over to the US. No illegality there :)
@3loaded: "Nowhere else in the world (afaik) has this stupid law."
How about the UK? Here it's illegal to even put a CD on your iPod; you're not allowed to copy at all.
Will these FOX DVDs still play on my PC without iTunes? That's all I need to know.
It is a 2-disc set. One being the DVD, the other only contains the encoded videos in both MP4 and WMV formats.
Why does it have to be iTunes? Believe it or not, people have devices other than the iPod.
I'd rather buy the DVD and pay the $20 to get a DVD to Device suite.
It comes with both WMV and MP4 files and has instructions for both Mac and PC.
No one said that it had to be iTunes. Fox Digital Copy includes a 1.6Mbps WMP file for your desktop PC, a 768Kbps file for your Plays For Sure device, and an iTunes file (that can be transferred to your iPod or iPhone). The files do not work with the PSP or Zune, however.
So what happens if you rent the DVD? Can you get the copy to your computer then?
It is a 2-disc set with Disc 2 only containing the encoded videos.
You have the disk and a code that is provided on the insert in the case. The code itself acts a lot like a gift certificate would in iTunes, but you still need the disk itself to verify against because it's what makes the call in iTunes to bring up the spot where you put the code.
Everyone relax! You don't need anything special to enjoy the DVD. The encoded videos are located on a separate disc. It works with Macs and PCs, and iTunes is not required on the PC.
Ok, so we don't need iTunes installed (thank god!), but do you need an iTunes account? If not, what's the stop somone from uploading the code with the ISO? How is it limited to prevent that?
I can see them tying it to an account for many reasons (security, marketing), but that brings up the question of Selling/gifting the disk to someone else after you have activated it via your account? Can you request a new code?
Yes I get that now. It's just a badly written article that makes it seem you need iTunes to get the digital copy.
Can't wait to download this movie to my new Macbook Air.
Oh, hang on. Well at least the DVD box looks pretty.
It uses Digital Copy Manager in Windows Media player on the PC if you don't have iTunes, but I think you have to have one of the two.
Ok so reading through it again, it doesn't sound tied to iTunes in anyway, which is good. :)
But I am still curious about the codes. How is it controlled? If you get a new computer, how do you re-activate it on the new PC?
Or if you watch it on your desktop, then want to put it on your laptop to travel? is there a FAQ for this?
Here is the site for it -> http://www.foxdigitalcopy.com/
well with Itunes it is linked to your account, so sence you can have your account on 5 computers, so can the copy of the DVD
Thanks for posting the link... :)
So the term "Original Owner" is used, which I take it to mean that once "Activated" the code is not transferable. Will this spring up a cottage service of "Verify your Activation code here before you buy that used DVD on Amazon or Ebay!"?
Does the code entering process communicate back to some centralized server/service? If not, expect a keygen in the near future. If it does, what if you want to say activate while in a non-connected state?
Also...what's the big deal about this? It does seem like a slight compromise, but with it's own restrictions and issues.
Sure there is software out there that can do the same thing, and without DRM, but not only does this seem like kind of a compromise, but they are encouraging, even promoting you to put it on multiple devices. Based on all that has been happening lately with the RIAA saying you can't make copies of your own cds, this seems like a step in the right direction, or a great trial run at the very least.
I agree it's a step in the right direction.
So with this, you can copy it to *A* PC *AND* *A* Portable Device. I'm sure many families have more than 1 of each of these, but I guess it's better than nothing.
I am still trying to figure out how the codes are actually used to authorize this, and to what end it's tracking their usage.
Also, I wonder if they "sell" more device codes if you want to copy it onto multiple devices?
I agree it's a step in the right direction.
So with this, you can copy it to *A* PC *AND* *A* Portable Device. I'm sure many families have more than 1 of each of these, but I guess it's better than nothing.
I am still trying to figure out how the codes are actually used to authorize this, and to what end it's tracking their usage.
Also, I wonder if they "sell" more device codes if you want to copy it onto multiple devices?
The newest Harry Potter has a digital copy of the movie on disk 2, in Microsofts "Play For Sure" format.
As usual they leave Linux users out.
That's ok I'll just go on bittorrent and DL a rip and not give em a penny of my money :)
http://www.videohelp.com/guides/autogk-illustrated-guide-4-dummies-dvd-to-avi-divx-xvid-id738#738
With the proper software, DVD copying is literally one-click. And 3gp converter (Thank you Engadget!), makes converting to PSP, ipod, etc., all that much easier.
So, it's not exactly a, "Feature", to us, to tell us we can digitally copy something.
Well, one click and 10-30 minutes of your time.
This is not for you, though. This is for people who aren't elite hackers like yourself, who want to watch their movies on the go and had no idea how to accomplish this previously. It's also for elite hackers who don't want to spend the time waiting for the DVD to be ripped and compressed to fit on their iPod. Sure, I could use Handbreak or any number of other programs, but why would I when I have the legal, fast option presented here?
It's a nice gesture and I'm glad they've done it.
You know, I don't have any illusions about my own moral standing (it's poor), and I've done more than my fair share of pirating over the years, but I have to say, when I read these comments:
At least I don't partake in sheer glee at the prospect of stealing something that I haven't purchased or hold to some pathetic belief that by pirating content online I'm "fighting the power."
Thanks for making me feel a little bit better about myself. I guess.
Since it requires that awfull iTunes, it's just a waste of space.
It's amazing what you will learn if you just read the little letters that form words on the screen in front of you.
Once and for all: It does NOT require iTunes.
As long as there is an option to use the digital file without requiring "PlaysOnNothing" then it's all good.
The file is in a hidden folder on the DVD It is approximately 485megs. I put the disk in on my linux box to find it. The file is encrypted before you enter the code as xine was not able to play it. .wmv copies of the file are also on the disk.
Once it actually lets you enter your code (was buggy for me to) It will then copy the file from the disk into your iTunes account.
HANDBRAKE
everything has a digital copy, in whatever format you want, with no DRM, for free.
Well, I actually bought the DVD last night (Target had a sale) and went home to play with it.
The video files (as others have said) are on a second disc and there is an activation number in the DVD insert. One the Mac side, an AppleScript is launched and it launches iTunes (and only iTunes) taking you to an iTMS page where you enter your activation number and... you download the video from the iTMS! The Mac users do not use the files on the disc.
On the Windows side there is actually a manager program that asks if you want to use iTunes or Windows Media Player. I didn't get any further because Parallels told me I was out of space, so I'll have to play with that tonight. I did explore the second disc and, yes, there are two files in there: one for "PC" and one for "Portable," but I have not been able to play with either of them to see if the DRM is already there (I assume it is).
The point to all of this is that the idea is half-baked. Why I need to download the file from the iTMS when it's sitting on a disc I bought simply astounds me. Why the ownership rights do not follow the disc (let's say I sell it on Half.com) further astounds me.
If Fox is going to go down this road, then there should just be a download for iTunes and a download for WMP, not a secondary disc in the packaging.
Now... am I upset I bout the DVD? No. I'm a Star Wars fan and I tend to be a completist, especially with the spoofs, so getting this DVD made sense. However, the fact that I was able to play with the Digital Copy was what made me pull the trigger on this purchase even faster.
Don't get me wrong: If I can get a portable video quickly (ripping a DVD and then transcoding to iPod-compatible files does take time) then I'm fine with that, and I don't dislike this concept. However, it's overly restrictive and almost silly in the execution. Hopefully some good will come of this... I'm just not holding my breath.
"am I upset I bout the DVD?"
Bah...
That should be "am I upset about the DVD?"
I need coffee.
Hackers, start your engines.
I could care less until they actually include a FILE on the disc. An iTunes coupon only matters to who? iTunes users. I am not, never will be. Amazon Unbox is one thing, or maybe some netflix credit, or something I dunno, but then you stray too far from the point.
In either case this seems more like a reach around for apple than a bonus for the consumer.
Hmm...Isn't Steve the one who wrote an open letter saying that we should ditch DRM all together? Seems like somebody needs to heed their own words. I know he was talking about DRM in music related terms, but to me it seems that there is really no difference. Apparently Steve thinks differently.
PS -- Fair Use doesn't exist...the DCMA took care of that.
I bought this DVD to try this feature out (and to own a copy of the DVD). I was not able to get the iTunes version to copy over to my PC computer; this is after being forced to upgrade to 7.6 (while everyone in the world was downloading it). 7.6 did not work and iTunes could not recognize any files on the DVD. I attempted to see if the WMP version would work with iTunes and had a heck of a time installing all the Microsoft DRM software to get the PC one in. Once in, the PC version does not work with iTunes (as expected) so I cannot get it onto my iPhone. It seems like this is a complete waste of time unless you have a Mac or like the WMP model.
I just went through this when I got the 2-disc version of the latest Harry Potter DVD release over the holidays. It came with a "free" digital copy that could be transferred over to my PMP (no iTunes required). Even though I already had WMP 11 installed on my computer, it required even more updating just to make sure I was thoroughly DRM'd to within an inch of my life. Don't really want to have to update software everytime I move a movie to my Zen, thankyouverymuch. Let me know when I can drag and drop; no fuss, no muss. Till then, I'll pass.
When this is easier than FairUse Wizard it will actually be worth buying.
Strange how everyone says it works on macs. now for this ONE movie im pretty sure it doesnt cuz i sat down to read the box. i bought live free or die hard. and it has the same thing (the digital copy) but it says it only works on PC's not Mac's hmm im confused or its a different company (didnt look) or thye updated it sense then.
I have a Mac, and have loaded Blue Harvest onto my iPod from it.
From what I can gather, Fox had to wait until iTunes 7.6 to implement the Digital Copy for the Mac. I was just at the store and looked at the Die Hard movie that has Digital Copy. It says "does not currently work with iPod,....".
Hmm, has anyone tried putting the Die Hard copy into a Mac, now that iTunes 7.6 is released? ... or maybe Fox will have to re-release it with a Mac-compatible version.
If you go to the FoxDigitalCopy site, the FAQs say that it uses WMA-based DRM, and doesn't mention Apple's FairPlay DRM.
The most amazing part for me was opening up the Blue Harvest DVD and seeing the instructions for copying the file *to your Mac* with the instruction for copying the files to Windows on the *reverse* side on the insert.
I don't remember ever seeing Windows instructions being relegated to the back side of the sheet on such a mainstream product. That's a new one. Way to go Fox!
http://www.daviddugan.com