Fujitsu's LifeBook P1620 is lighter than (MacBook) Air
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Jan 18th 2008 6:07AM
posted Jan 18th 2008 6:07AM
[Via UMPC Portal, thanks AFD]
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THAT is pretty sweet. An eraser head only?
who needs a trackpad when you have a tablet????
These bumped specs suddenly make this thing look mighty sweet.
"Vista is a $0 option"
Well, it's nice to see that you're getting what you pay for.
Computer makers should pay you to use vista...
now that companies like HP are forcing you to buy it.
There's plenty of laptops lighter than the new Macbook. I think this is where Steve missed the boat - thin doesn't matter, light-weight does!
Thin matters in terms of aesthetic appeal and functionality. Apple may have wanted the base to be relatively thin to match the new screen technology. And in terms of functionality, thinness can be problematic in terms of openning the laptop, and breakage.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, how does thinness affect function? Unless we're talking mobile phones, or something of the like. My boss takes his laptop everywhere, from the office to meetings across the world, and he swears by his 2~2.5lb VAIO. Even a 3lb laptop (a la Macbook Air) seriously turns him off when looking at new ones. When you're carrying something everywhere (with other stuff), you tend to care less about aesthetics and more about "will I break my back today?"
If it is too thin, it can be harder to open the lid because you can't hold onto the base as easily while trying to lift the latch. So thinness can actually be a negative aspect.
Oh, I see. For sure. And it's made out of aluminum! These things seem far from durable. Should be interesting to see over the next few months, how many of them break. ;)
no, software is what matters, as hardware is nothing without it, mac macbook has osx, deal-breaker.
Macbook Air is an idea of VAIO X505, the thickest part is 0.8" and it only wights 1.8lb. VAIO did this years ago, Apple stole the keyboard and finally they stole the whole concept.
yeah. thickness is irrelevant. people like me only cares about weight.
i was expecting the MBA to be around 1.5lbs. i wouldnt hesitate to buy the MBA if it was $2000 if it was 1.5lbs. 3lbs is still a lot. what was apple thinking???
How exactly is half a pound (its 3.5 hours is achieved only with the heavier high-capacity battery pack, $45 more for the base model) important when this Fujitsu convertible tablet has 4.4 inches of less screen real estate and a similarly cramped keyboard?
The Air also isn't crippled by a lower speed Ultra Low Voltage processor (1.6/1.8GHz vs 1.2GHz) and its accompanying lower speed front side bus (800 vs 533MHz) and memory speed (667 vs 533MHz). No camera, no 802.11n, Bluetooth is a $30 option on all but the $2200 model and the one even remotely priced like the Air only comes with a 60GB hard drive ($100 for 80GB, $200 for 100GB) and 512MB of memory ($300 for 1GB, $450 for 2GB!).
They're not even in the same market space, so why bother making the comparison? Just because it weighs less?? Yeah, that's rich. Don't even get me started on the Fujitsu's hideous industrial design...
@ BobTurbo
What latch...? Like the macbook, the MBA (sounds like a bank) uses a magnet to hold the lid closed. It is a very nice feature. Almost as nice as the magnetic power attachment.
Oh and yah, I am a fanboy......Apple works for me.
Correct it's a poor comparison, because this is a *true* ultra-portable class laptop (too bad Steve doesn't read, he might learn what ultra portable really means!). It'd be better compare to the VAIO's or LifeBook's with larger screens.
@ray
You'd be amazed about the number of people who dont know that Apple 'borrowed' their new keyboard designs from the X505. Just a search on google for 'sony' 'macbook' and 'keyboard' gives moronic articles like these:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=290
http://www.pbcentral.com/columns/hildreth_leo/070711b_Sony-MacBook_or_Apple-VAIO.shtml
and even some from Engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/sony-vaio-vgx-tp1-announced-loaded-up-with-hdmi-out-dvd-burner/
I would be surprised if someone pulled up a picture of an X505 (released for years ago) and claim Sony have ripped off the MacBook Air
How much light weight? Is it like zero pounds? That would be pretty good. But I don't see an actual weight spec here.
Plus, whatever it is, if it was achieved by micro screen and micro keyboard, you will soon find that you missed the boat: you'll spot a few squinting geeks hunched over these, but mostly normal people using the MBA as if it were a normal laptop.
@willyboy
yes I know it doesn't have a latch, I was refering to laptops in general. It is still exactly the same though as you have to hold the base to break the magnetic attachment otherwise you just lift the whole thing up and it doesn't separate.
Please say it has > 1 usb port. That Macbook Air really pisses me off, but I can't wait to see all the little freshman art students with one so I can make fun of them.
Two USB ports on the right hand side.
@ jakem
It only has one USB port, the other is the new Micro DVI.
@ Curtis: I think jakem is talking about THIS laptop, not the MBA.
http://www.engadget.com/photos/fujitsus-lifebook-p1620/594986/
Yeah I assumed this article was about the P1620 and not the Macbook and the Fujitsu does have 2 usb ports.
I never really wanted a tablet PC until just now. It'd make a pretty good sized PMP. All of a sudden that nice 3in screen on the Samsung YP-P2 seems trivial.
Oh, and the fingerprint scanner is a nice touch on a tablet (or maybe that's just standard and I never noticed)
Fingerprint scanners have been common on tablets for a while now.
Unfortunately, if you want to outfit this thing comparable to a 12" tablet, you're really going to be paying around $2300, which is a little on the high side (to say the least). Serious business travellers only for now, I guess.
Do you know what really pisses me of?
The large horde of morons that now a new sport: attacking Apple on every, doesn't matter how vaguely related, opportunity.
And the funniest thing about that is: most of those morons don't know a bit about design or engineering. Talk about talking out of your ass.
If you don't like the MacBook Air, don't buy it. That you don't like it doesn't make it bad or wrong.
It is good and right from the perspective of design and concept ... and far ahead of the times ... again ... because Apple doesn't compromise. At least not on what they are trying to accomplish on the road ahead.
I dunno, 1 USB port, no changeable battery, no optical drive sure sounds like "compromise" to me.
I'd respond to this, but I'm running Photoshop with a few high res images on my Macbook Air (with 2GB soldered-on RAM), and I think if I leave Safari running for a minute longer the thing will explode...
Or maybe you just can't accept that the MBA is not an engineering accomplishment, ahead of the times, or realy special in any way, and it probably deserves most of the criticism it is getting.
The only thing that took any effort was the motherboard. Leaving out ports, optical drives, and using smaller than standard components and a thin, custom battery and it's no wonder the MBA is so thin...they simply removed everything bulky in a laptop and slapped an aluminum shell around what was left.
Any other manufacturer could make up something that thing if they wanted to make the same sacrifices, but they haven't, probably because the felt the product wasn't marketable at that point, since it lacked so many features.
But Apple's always been better at marketing than anything else, and evidently they think this thing will be marketable, so we'll see if everyone else was wrong.
Doesn't compromise??
Macbook Air- No Optical Drive, 1 USB port, small HDD, non-removable battery... Should I go on?
Imac- Non-upgradeable hardware (other than HDD and RAM), not very many optoins, Crappy GPU, etc.
Ipod- No FM radio, no wi-fi in their Classic and Nano, no wi-fi syncing on the touch, crappy headphones, still used the non-brushed aluminum backing on all models (scratches/smudges very easily), etc.
Iphone- No keyboard, no 3g, no picture messages, no video mode, no push-email support, still only comes in 8GB, not enough buttons (sometimes you can be way too simple for your own good), recessed headphone port, doesn't work with many ipod accessories, etc.
OSX- Doesn't run many games, doesn't work with lots of hardware, Most software won't run on it, very closed system, doesn't even have a PVR program shipped with the OS (maybe they should take a look at Windows Media Center), has Safari as it's native browser (everyone knows safari is too limiting), etc.
Did I make my point?
Sam Zebian:
Most consumer PCs, for the matter, have crappy graphics cards.
I have a MacBook and a PC with a decent graphics card for gaming.
Taylor:
But the thing with most consumer PC's (and I mean desktop PC's, not laptops, hence the reason I was talking about an Imac) is that you can upgrade the GPU to something powerful, something you can't do with an Imac.
@ Sam Zebian
Sure, but the average consumer does not change the GPU. The only think most of them will upgrade is RAM, if at all. Usually they buy the PC and live with it.
Doesn't matter, if the option isn't there, then it's still a downside to the Imac.
SAM!
All you say is so complete NON SENSE and talk out of your ass.
Really: everything.
You're the example for the whining techblog guy who attacks everything Apple does and get's proven wrong by the success they have ... espacially in the Pro market, where people who really rely on their computers make the decisions.
And not gamers, like you.
TMM.. Success? Success in what? Sales? Sure, they have that. But sales success does not necessarily mean they have a better product, just better marketing.
Now, don't get me wrong, there have been things that Apple's done right, I even own a few Apple products myself. My point being that just because somethings sells well doesn't mean it can't be a piece of crap, because people are, by and large, stupid.
Saying that people, are in large, stupid is stupid by itself. This sounds like not overcome puberty to me and is very offensive and arrogant, if you think about it again.
And by the way: following your argumentaion, Apple would be the choice by smart people, because the vast majority buys the ugly zero-design-windows-machines. Checkmated yourself there.
The success Apple has, is that they lead the industrie into new directions. The ripp-off effect alone, I mean companies ripping off Apple, is enough to improve most of the electronics: good for all customers. The pressure get's clearly big now. Look at all the companies trying to figure out what they're doing wrong and Apple is doing right.
Most of the "downsides" of Apple products, that have been pointed out in reply to my comment, are not downsides at all. The problem is the wrong perspective - this happens a lot in reviews, as well.
I can only repeat: Not being able to exchange hard drive, RAM or GPU and CPU is not an automatic "downside".
That is complete bs. Argueably. This is - design wise - 1. semester stuff.
Also, the word „compromise” and what's meant by it, seems to have been misunderstood.
The only thing you can argue about is: does it satisfy my needs. On the free market, you have the choice. Looking at the target group, and in expectation of what Apple clearly shows to try to develope - the total unwiring of periphals - Apple is the only company that is anywhere near that target in their product world - the MacBook is a great design. The only "Subnote" I would consider right now, because it's not only a "feature list".
On the opposite, it more often is a downside to compromise and try to please to many target groups at once, which leads to the too big amount of different types of ports and heavily overloaded and hard to manage hardware - AND software, btw.
I'm open to serious discussion, and in my first post I wanted to show how disappointed I am about what is going on in tech review blogs: a lot of noise by people that should just listen, not talk.
@TMM
Pro Market???
Now I am not an Apple fanboy in anyway however I do have 5 Power Macs and I am ACTC 10.3/10.4 certified. I'm into technology and what I can do with it and what it can do for me!
This Pro Market... I have work in Sony Pictures Entertainment, Morgan Stanley, CBS News, CNBC, Rickey Lake, just to name a few. I don't know if you would call those companies the Pro Market however I can tell you this. I don't remember seeing ANY Mac's in any of those CEO's offices and very few in the other offices!
Can you clarify what this "Pro Market" is please?
Oh and by the way. I rarely do play games however whenever I do play a game online with my friends I ALWAYS have to use my WinBox. For some STRANGE reason that game just isn’t available on my Mac... tisk , tisk, tisk.
Did you know that "I Love New York" and "Rock of Love" are popular shows that have achieved success in ratings? They've even been brought back by popular demand.
Solja Boy Tellum is a platinum artist on the heels of his hit single, "Crank Dat." Wow...successful.
The dumbing down of America is almost complete. The consumer electronics brainwash is quite possibly the last step. I'm happy that companies that assume that their customers can't or won't need to do anything additional with the products are having so much success.
Welcome to the social?
H3ll no! Welcome to the flock!
@TMM: will you and your friends please stop whining about how everybody else is whining about the Air? why is criticism of a machine you had no part in making so personal to you? but this dude "bluelight" is by far the worst. somebody find and punch him, please.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=415848
It' lighter but 8.9" screen is really tiny. IMO 13" should be a minimum. Otherwise just get a ASUS EEE PC for $400.
The P series is Fujitsu's ultraportable line; at least it used to be, until recently, when they degraded the P8000's to a huge unwieldy 13" screen. Theres no way anyone could ever consider 13" to be ultraportable, its bloody huge. Obviously I disagree that 13" is minimum -- as do almost every tablet manufacturer out there (12" is by far the most common size) -- but there are other really well built Fujitsus of a heftier size, if thats your desire.
My primary laptop is still a Fujitsu P1120, with a 800 mhz crusoe and 8.9" touchscreen, albeit not a tablet. Its almost five years old, but I love the form factor and it has wonderful battery life.
"If you don't like the MacBook Air, don't buy it. "
OK, but until the internet is censored by the Australian government (it will be soon), I can criticise it on gadget blogs and you can choose to read it or not.
"because Apple doesn't compromise"
Yeah, because nobody around the world needs an expresscard slot for the most convenient form of mobile internet access.
you can always use USB...but then you wont have it for other stuff hehehe...but hell..you can always buy their HUB! wich costs 3 times a normal one :D
Yeah but having a USB modem dongle hanging off your computer is very annoying.
specially when its supposed to be mobile. Making an ultralight doesn't do any good if you have to dangle all the crap you need off the side.
Not to mention...people don't even know if they are going to have problems using a USB dongle because of the unique position of the port. You know kind of like the iPhone audio jack thing.
one of the many things the Air is begging for, but doesn't yet have, is wireless USB. apple released it too soon. i fear they will regret it.
that pen is for what? touchscreen? doubt it...otherwise this would be the perfect...A serious performer if it has the touchscreen...wich is so cheap this days...
Handwriting when it's in tablet mode I guess. You're not going to scribble stuff just using the tip of your finger, are you?
Erm....
I happen to be typing this from a Fujitsu P1620. And mind is 9 months old. Sure you have the model right?
Mine does have 1gb memory, all the similar specs above, but my chip is a Core Solo chip inside.
Nice to hear the SSD dropped in price though - I've been waiting for the 32gb to go sub $300. Maybe I should wait for the 64gb to hit $500...
Are you sure YOU have your model right, that's P1610 that you have there. (if it's not the older P1510)
Mark, You own a P1610, not a P1620 and the 32GB SSD option for the P1620 is for $399 and for that you are going from a 60GB to a 32 GB HDD capacity (but much better transfer speeds).
That being said, I think the P1620 is a great device. I use the P1610 myself and although I wish Fujitsu came out with a dual mode digitizer like the Lenovo X61 or better yet the N-Trig digitizer, I will say that for portability, the P1610 is an excellent compromise. Its weight and battery life (with the extended battery) are exceptional.
Ulp. You guys are right. I forgot the transition was from P1510 to P1610. I was going by the idea that the original in this series was the 1610, and I have the second gen, assuming it was the 1620. There's nothing on my case or what have you saying P1610 - all it says is Lifebook P Series on the bezel bottom. Before making my slightly smart ass comment, I should have lifted up the computer and seen the name plate on the bottom ;)
can you say "over priced" ?
Asus EEE has broken the mould and buried its remains in the field of sub note / ultraa portables.
Makes me smile that you have all these clearly intelligent guys with premium educations but yet fail to recognize the aroma of the bean.
It has a faster processor, more RAM, more drive storage, bigger screen, touch screen...
dsgamer: Did you see the blog post below this one...? About the EEE PC possibly getting a 9 inch touch screen...? If it does, there's no way it's going to be priced anywhere remotely near this $1750-$2700 convertible Fujitsu.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/eee-pc-with-9-inch-touchscreen-in-the-works/
What is the deal with everybody and their brother comparing everything under the sun to the MacBook Air lately?
The new PC Brand XXX just introduced a new desktop with a faster processor then the MacBook Air.
The smartphone YYY is smaller then the MacBook Air.
The Fujitsu P1620 which has a smaller screen, smaller keyboard, smaller battery, and lower specs is lighter then the MacBook Air.
I am not trying to defend the MacBook Air, but can't you just report on the dang product they are reporting on without comparing it to the MacBook Air? This is getting ridiculous.
My phone is lighter then the MacBook Air, but guess what. That doesn't mean a thing!
Yeah, they are expensive but the P1610 is brilliant and with the faster processor and extra RAM this looks even better. Although the keyboard can be a little cramped these tablets are incredibly light. I just throw mine in my bag and forget it's there.
The MacBook Air still has a larger screen and a faster processor, plus it exceeds the GreenPeace standards which makes a huge leap forward.
What I get sick of is everything being compared to a vaguely similar Apple product. The P1620 is in a totally different class to the MBA so why does everyone feel the need to compare them. Not everything is about Apple and Fujitsu's P-series lifebooks are a great example of a category where Apple doesn't offer competition.
Perhaps because jobsie compared the MBA to the TZ which is a totally different footprint? If he did it, then so can I!
Why do all my posts appear at the bottom of the thread when I hit reply?
Fujitsu's web site says it starts at $1749, not $1599. Goes up to $2224 with BT and a larger HD.
http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=P1620
$2,374 to match the memory and hard drive sizes of the Air. Of course it can never stretch out for those 4.4 inches of more screen space, faster processor, faster front side bus or faster memory either. Oh well. At least the Fujitsu's LCD can be carved out to make a really nice DIY HD projector! =)
ACTIVE or PASSIVE digitizer?
Digitzer: Resistive (Passive)
http://www.computers.us.fujitsu.com/www/products_notebooks.shtml?products/notebooks/tech_specs/p1620_ts
Boo. Not a digital sketchbook then.
Passive digitizer. Hard-Touch makes it very good for writing, less good for using your fingers. If you prefer active digitizers, this is the net best thing. Most passive digitizers are soft touch. The only other hard touch screen I'm aware of is for a UMPC, the Asus R2H.
If you write a lot, you'll appreciate it. If you don't; if you navigate around the screen with your finger a lot, you'll find it annoying for certain. You'll need to use your nail more often than your fingertip.
Yeah, if you're looking for a digital sketchbook, the P1620 definitively wouldn't be your thing.
What remains to see is the batter life on this thing. The 3.5 hour number was for the p1610.
Fujitsu's website does not mention batter life for this one, and I wonder if it will be less due to the faster and dual core CPU, and the redesigned screen.
And no full sized keyboard or trackpad? No thanks.
I really do love the Fujitsu line. Their slate Tablets are very nice. But, my gripe is that the damn power warts weigh nearly as much as the 2.5 lb. tablet, and take up considerable space. If there is one thing to learn from Apple, it is how to make a decent power supply with a removable cord.
Oh how I wish that the Air were a tablet…
I have the 1510d, a predecessor to this laptop. I'd buy the new one in a second -- if only my current one wasn't so well made that I have no way to rationalize the purchase.
With the 6-cell battery, I've had between 5 and 6 hours on an airplane.
Using the touchscreen has been a revelation -- the whole gestural way of working with your files becomes natural very quickly. And the way the screen folds back on the keyboard makes reading a pleasure.
It's my main computer. When I travel, it fits easily in my bag. And at home, I just plug in a larger, secondary screen and a full-size keyboard. I run plenty of programs simultaneously, and rarely if ever have a hiccup.
So it is almost the same price as an MBA, it's ugly as sin, tiny screen, tiny keyboard, slower processor. Only thing it does better is it's a little lighter and it has a 100gb hard drive as opposed to an 80gb hard drive. Wow, exciting. I'm sure some will tout the replaceable battery, but I bet it's life isn't 5 hours either.
ARGH I just bought a 1610
Turns out the MBA, while probably the thinnest laptop shipping today, it's not the thinnest ever.
See my blog post about it.
http://blog.amahi.org/2008/01/17/thinnest-laptop-ever-not-the-macbook-air/
I was involved with the production of that ever-so thin, believed to be thinnest laptop!
yay
I suddenly find myself no longer interested in the HTC Shift.