Xbox 360 failure rate at 16 percent?

Warranty seller SquareTrade, sampling from a pool of over 1,000 claims, says that it's seeing an Xbox 360 failure rate at around 16 percent. Most Xbox 360 owners -- at least the early adopters -- don't just fear the RRoD, they've come to expect it, and compared to projected failure rates of 3% for the Wii and PS3 (a stat Microsoft claimed initially), it's obvious that this continues to be a spendy problem for Microsoft and a headache for its customers. As 1UP points out, the 16% stat might be a little high, since the type of user that would seek out a separate warranty is probably more of a power user, and the majority of problems are heat-related, but whatever the true number is, it'll probably continue to rise in the immediate future as we all CoD4 our gen one 360s to death, and then eventually fall as the 65nm and eventually 45nm Xboxes fill the market.

[Via Joystiq]

[nick @ Feb 14th 2008 1:37PM]

First RROD couple of days ago, after about 13 months. Have the extended warranty from Best Buy but the local stores are all sold out.

[FrankTheCrank @ Feb 14th 2008 2:08PM]

Totally unacceptable man...

I'll wait for Microsoft's 3.0 version of their game console...they always seem to get it by the third version. The next one will be rock solid.

As for 360, no thanks.

[blinkcowz182 @ Feb 14th 2008 2:14PM]

I'll admit it does suck getting a RRoD but its not like Microsoft is being shady about it, I had a replacement one in about 5-7 business days. Hardly worth passing on the entire console generation, no?

[chris fredette @ Feb 14th 2008 2:39PM]

I had 2 RROD's. One 11 days of very light use; the unit wasn't even really set up either just sitting there in the middle of the floor.
The second one occurred 8 months later and happened 20 seconds after I turned is on. I think heat is only a contributor to the problem.
I have the BB extended warranty but both times they were out of stock too. Can I get my money back?

[ED @ Feb 14th 2008 5:05PM]

FrankTheCrank: It should be pretty stable by 3.11. The next major release after that will be Xbox 2095

[masstercheif @ Feb 14th 2008 6:00PM]

Frank: The problem is virtually eliminated in new Xbox's and your's will most likely last long into the following generation of consoles if you buy one now (Asuming you don't do anything stupid to yours)

The Elites and Halo 3 Editions were the first to have 65 nm but it's already moved to the premiums. Just make sure when you buy yours to ask or look for one with a relatively recent manufacture date.

[imacjenn @ Feb 14th 2008 6:06PM]

Well, I'm now awaiting my 4th xBox 360. The first one I got very soon after launch and it lasted over a year and a half before the RRoD showed up. After that, I got two replacement units from Microsoft - one lasted a while, the most recent one lasted just 2 months. Everyone raves about the extended warranty - and yeah, I'm grateful for it...but the problem now is that after this next one gets the RRoD, my 3 years will be up... and as much as I love the xBox games, I really don't think I will be paying for another one - at least not until I know for sure that the RRoD problem is fixed. The replacement program is great, but being on xBox #4 is just plain ridiculous. And, NO, I am not "doing anything" to my xBox except playing it! Everyone who boasts they are still on their original xBox and these other people must be "doing something" to keep having the RRoD are idiots. My first xBox worked for a long time too - eventually yours will fail, and if it doesn't, then you're just one of the few lucky ones.

I think it's awesome that they extended the warranty and pay for the shipping, but it's not so awesome when your box fails a week before Halo 3 comes out, as my #2 did, or when it fails one month after you get all your Christmas games, as #3 did. Now the games that I paid $60 for, I could have gotten for a lot less by the time box #4 comes back in the mail (avg. time from when you first call, wait for the box, send it back, and they re-send another one is 6-8 weeks).

I don't like my Wii or my PS3 games nearly as much... but at least they don't break.

[jc31415 @ Feb 15th 2008 10:39AM]

Mine died in December. It was a nightmare dealing with the Microsoft help desk - they are, without a doubt, the dumbest collection of robots I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with. It took me over 2 months and countless phone calls to get a unit back. Apparently it's now on it's way. If anyone is ever brave enough to deliver the concept of service with their console, they will rule the gaming industry.

[Miguelitosd @ Feb 23rd 2008 11:11PM]

masterchief:
Yeah, good luck with that hope. I just had my Elite model die on me after only a couple months. Not RROD but the DVD drive just ate it.. can't read anything. Waiting on box to ship it in for fixing.

That makes 2 out of 3 360s to die on me inside of a year now... thankfully I had my pre-elite one I kept as part of my "mobile Rock Band kit" :) The failure rate on these is pathetic. I've had consoles going back to the 8bit NES and have never had a complete failure like this.

Meanwhile both my Ps3 and Wii continue to chug along without any issues, and my PS3 is used practically every single day (it's my default DVD playback device too).

[Kiwi616 @ Feb 14th 2008 1:37PM]

While I have a PS3 thats perfect, my brother-in-law has an xbox and 4 of my friends...none of which have any problems, since upgrading to the newest firmwares.

[teej @ Feb 14th 2008 5:25PM]

i've had mine for a year and a half...no problems! it gets frequent use, and i'll sometimes leave it on for a few hours, paused. i hear that keeping the 360 vertical helps cause the RRoD's, and mine's in my entertainment center horizontally.

[Papps @ Feb 14th 2008 1:38PM]

I was thinking about getting a 360 later this fall. The only thing thats really holding me back is this fail rate. Everyone I know who has a 360 has at one time or another had it fail on them, and had to get it replaced.

[Chris @ Feb 14th 2008 1:47PM]

If you buy a new one then you should be ok. It was the old motherboards that caused all the problems. You also get a 3yr warranty from Microsoft now.

This is coming from somebody on his 4th 360: Don't deny yourself some of the best games made in years. Bioshock and COD4 are amazing.

[mattclarkie @ Feb 14th 2008 2:05PM]

Mine from Launch has not failed yet. I wouldn't say I am a Power user, but I use it alot, atleast 4 hours a week, sure it has gone wonky, but never broken.

I wouldn't let the failures scare you out of buying a console. You have security with MS for 3 years, and the new consoles should be much less likely to break anyway.

[Scott @ Feb 14th 2008 2:28PM]

"Don't deny yourself some of the best games made in years. Bioshock and COD4 are amazing."

I think I'll skip the 360 RROD-roulette and just play those games on my PC...GoW and Halo too.

[Spartan117_KC @ Feb 15th 2008 12:16PM]

I think I must the luckiest guy on the planet that I have a 3 year old box and I have never had an issue with it. Like I'm sure more than one person here today, I've supported computer products on a help line and I've never put much stock in that a person has such bad luck that they require 5 replacement units.

I've seen friends tuck their unit onto a bookshelf between to big books and a book on top not allowing any air flow and guess what...the unit failed. I have mine sitting horizontal on a shelf with nothing next to it, amazingly ...no problems. If I could change anything, yet it is a jet engine comapared to my PS3, but I like playing games, which the 360 has plenty of, while on the other side of the console coin, I have a Blu-Ray player that can also fold@home

[Jatt_Frealz @ Mar 21st 2008 8:20PM]

I have no idea where the majority of the people here
live but i have a 360 pro from late late 2006 (manufactured December)
and have NEVER (yet) had a problem
ALL my friends have no problems at all
i just dont get it
are u guys ps3 fanboys
maybe screwin on the internet with your ps3's collecting dust
just afraid that 360 is better than the ps3 in gaming
while the 360 fanboys are out enjoying halo 3
and not getting a chance to even talk about
there experiences
if u dont have rrod then ur not b*tchin about it obviously
but the 15% that do decide to head over to the internet
now i was just looking for the failure rate and im shocked at the rate

[Corey @ Feb 14th 2008 1:42PM]

Are the 45nm machines still prone to RROD, or is it just the older units?
Thinking about getting one, still nervous about hardware issues.

[masstercheif @ Feb 14th 2008 6:00PM]

They're actually on 65nm units and they've added a better heat sink so you really should be okay if you buy a new one at this point.

[CharlieX @ Feb 14th 2008 1:43PM]

Sound plausible. I've gone through 3 warranty repairs on my 360. There was an article not to long ago that an MS "insider claimed" they rushed the box to retail to beat out Sony. Beat out Sony they did... but it came at a high cost of crappy hardware.

[SeditioN VII @ Feb 14th 2008 1:50PM]

I've owned 6 xbox 360's since launch, all have had the red ring of death except my new one. Odds would say its only a matter of time before this one dies too:/


All that aside, my failure rate is MUCH higher then 16% personally lol

[FrankTheCrank @ Feb 14th 2008 2:04PM]

The failure rate is so bad, Microsoft won't even give an official comment on the real numbers. That's bad.

What really sucks is that 6-12 months into the experience, you're already sucked in, having bought many games, if you were to dump it all together, you would be a great loss. So you continue with the replacement units.

At some point, your three years will be up, then what? XBOX480? or another 360?

$350 for 2005 DVD technology....and $50 a year for XBLG is $400, then you have to put up with hardware failure?

Still not worth it.

[Reader @ Feb 14th 2008 2:18PM]

I've had one fail on me and sadly we couldn't send it in because I voided the warranty like any good nerd. That was after about a year of heavy use, people left it on for days at a time until I noticed. I don't think you'll really have to worry about it, and you have the warranty to back it up if it becomes a problem. If you're the type that likes to show support for good quality with your money, then maybe hold off. Normally I do, but I love my 360 too much so fun outweighed principal.

[Carbonize @ Feb 14th 2008 4:15PM]

I've had my 360 for about 18 months now and only time the red lights have come on is when I forgot to put the VGA cable in properly. If you've had six units fail on you I'd start to think there may be a contributing factor in the location you are using it. Is it duty? Plenty of air space around the 360? Any heat source close by? Lot of electrical conduits?

Not saying they weren't just crap ones but six seems a little high.

[oshean @ Feb 14th 2008 4:17PM]

SeditioN VII, your xboxen failure rate is 83.34%

[Zeus.:God @ Feb 14th 2008 4:47PM]

Frank, stop being such a fucking fanboy. You don't get "sucked" into anything. IF your 360 fails on you, you're guaranteed service for three years as long as you don't break the seal sticker behind the faceplate.

You're guaranteed FREE repair with NO shipping costs whatsoever, and your 360 is gone for about a week or two, at most.

On top of that, if you get a new one, the chances of it RRoDing on you is not very likely at all, hence the reason the failure rate is going down.

The 360 is a MUCH better buy, especially at the current prices, than the PS3. Pay for Xbox LIVE is not an issue whatsoever, and those bitching about it are likely living in their parent's basement without a job. $50 dollars is nothing for the amount of enjoyment you get out of it. PlayStation Network won't be free forever, bud. There is no way it can be, unless they are willing to take a significant loss throughout the life of the PS3.

[iPriest @ Feb 14th 2008 5:29PM]

@ Zeus: you seem the be the fucking fanboy here

[Autopsy15 @ Feb 14th 2008 5:35PM]

@Zeus

"PlayStation Network won't be free forever, bud. There is no way it can be, unless they are willing to take a significant loss throughout the life of the PS3."

And PC games have had free online for how long now?
The only reason you think paying for online is a good thing is because Microsoft has been doing it since the original Xbox. You've become accustomed to it. You think that it's no big deal that they charge you to play with your friends. You think that because you're paying that 50 bucks a year that you're getting the best service. Is P2P the best they could offer? Really? And did you ever notice how Xbox Live costs YOU money, yet they still paste advertisements all over the place? I've yet to see an ad in the PS Store, but surprisingly enough, it's still free. And, I guarantee you, you will enjoy something 10x more if you're not paying for it.
"$50 dollars is nothing for the amount of enjoyment you get out of it."
Are you really so delusional?

[masstercheif @ Feb 14th 2008 6:00PM]

Wow. Two reaaaly extreme posts right there.

It's not debatable, Xbox Live IS a much better service because of the way it connects every single game and having a universal friends list.

The price you pay for something has nothing to do with how much you enjoy it, that's incredibly stupid. The fact that Playstation network's free doesn't make it fun.

True. Microsoft shouldn't need to charge for Xbox Live, but they do, however it is a better service and to most people who use it it's worth the price.

But also, Zeus, I have no idea where you came up with getting the 360 back in a week or two. Everyone I know who's gotten RROD has had to wait at least a week for the box, and then between 4-7 weeks to get it back after shipping it. And getting a new one from Microsoft doesn't decrease the likelyhood of you're getting a RROD at all. In fact it increases it. When you get a "new" xbox from microsoft it's actually a refurbished 1st generation xbox, with only a repair on the part that failed and an added heat sink. The other parts of it are still likely to fail at some point.

On a seperate note, the 16% rate is of NEW xboxes from retailers, and excludes refurbished one's sent as replacements.

[Autopsy15 @ Feb 14th 2008 11:13PM]

Let's look at it this way.

What's better, ice cream that is absolutely free, and tastes delicious, or ice cream that costs $50 a year to eat, and while you eat it, you have to listen to pre-pubescent 12 year olds scream that your ice cream hacks and you suck dicks...Oh and you can't taste the ice cream until 10 seconds after you eat it (it's a lag joke! Ha!).

[Zeus.:God @ Feb 15th 2008 10:55AM]

Autopsy, I don't know if you'll read this, but PC gaming isn't so free. In case you didn't know, in order to play online you have to join a server. Those servers either come from a listen server, which is hosted on the host's PC, or a dedicated server, which can be on either the host's PC or a full blown server... Well, if you want to run a successful server there has to be someone paying 200-300 dollars a month to host them, or someone making donations to the server to keep it up. On top of that, it's becoming a much larger trend for individual games to have subscription (because they host the server). I would know, as I have been playing PC games long before the 360 came out, or even the PS2 and Xbox. I have donated much money to former clans for CS and CS:S to help keep the servers up and running, along with many servers in games like Battle Field 1942/2, Unreal Tournament 99/2004/3(2007), and others. PC gaming is never free unless you're running the server on your own PC or on a dedicated box in your basement of some sort (which still costs a bit of money, especially if you get a competent connection to do so, such as T1)

Why do I say PSN won't be free forever? Because those servers require bandwidth, and they require a LOT. Bandwidth is neither free nor cheap at the speeds they need to remain both reliable and efficient.

You pay for Xbox LIVE because of the bandwidth and memory you're taking up on the XBL servers. It's not all just P2P, it requires a middle man, and that middle man is, of course, the XBL servers. Every time you log into Xbox LIVE, you're taking up more and more of that precious bandwidth that millions are using, and on top of that, you're being provided with the latest updates for your Xbox and all it's games, along with an extensive library of downloads of many different types of media, be it arcade games, videos, demos, and so on.

It's great that PSN is free, but no way in Hell will it be for long. XBL is definitely worth it in millions of people's eyes, especially when you consider the fact that for cheaper than 1 game, you can add hundreds of hours of play to your existing games, rather than spending hundreds to buy others because you have beaten the single player campaigns/story modes.

As far as advertising is concerned, who the fuck gives a shit? I appreciate, it actually, because they tell me when demos or games come out, what Xbox LIVE events are going on in the coming month, so on and so forth. There really is no draw back to these advertisements, and bitching about being informed of something is pretty silly.

Yes, I have heard of replacement and repair orders going on for a month or so, but those are also few and far between from what I've read. I can tell you that I find far more praises to the expediency of the order, compared to the delays. My friend recently had the RRoD, and had his box within 2 days, and between calling the repair order and recieving the replacement/repaired console, it was less than 2 weeks, which is not at all uncommon from many of the stories I've read.

iPriest, you have no fucking right to be calling ME a fanboy. I back my shit up with reason and facts, as I have just proven above. I also find it ironic that your name is "iPriest", and on top of that, you show an unjust bias towards Microsoft, and boast everything Apple, from what I've seen of your posts. You're being a total hypocrite in calling me a fanboy.

[TRAFFICBLOWS @ Feb 19th 2008 4:53PM]

@Zeus.:God

You get a neg vote for writing so much

[h3r2on @ Feb 14th 2008 1:51PM]

I still have my launch day 360 and so do most of my friends, we've had no issues at all, I think the media exaggerates how wide spread the RROD problems really are. 15% seem really high I'd believe 7% because yeah they do get recockulously hot. but 15 is a really off.

[Corey @ Feb 14th 2008 1:52PM]

How hot do they get?

[Scott @ Feb 14th 2008 2:04PM]

Well, I just sent early box in two days ago for the RROD. The UPS store guy knew exactly what it was, and said they get 8 to 12 of them every day at that location. That's a lot of bad XBOXs, and I don't think anybody is over-hyping the issues with the early units. Just wait, yours will die too.

[potato @ Feb 14th 2008 2:41PM]

Actually Scott, the worst part of it isn't that early units are dying (it happens sometimes in electronics), it's that even new units don't seem to have a much better chance of survival. Despite being on the market for so long MS doesn't seem to have a clue as to how to fix the problem!

My launch unit is doing just fine, though the DVD drive is acting up lately with unreadable disc errors... But no dreaded RROD... yet...

[Student Driver @ Feb 14th 2008 3:12PM]

@Scott

Ditto on the UPS thing. I got a call, and later a note from UPS that I had a package coming and they wouldn't leave it at my door (like they leave everything else). When I called them, the lady knew exactly what it was a gave a figure similar to what you wrote. She also mentioned she was going to get one for her kid but the failure rate kept her away from it.

A friend told me how he fixed the RROD on his hacked 360 with some parts from Lowe's and some heat. It seems that all the heat (and eventual heat cycling) coupled with poor motherboard support causes solder points to fail. Normally, a heat gun (to fix the solder cracks) and some bracing (to keep it from happening again) seems to address it, and it worked for him. The new units, as well as the warranty units are supposed to have some sort improved heat sink (and possibly some sort of stove-pipe layout for thermal conduction) to address this.

I wonder if the additional weight of the new sink is still too heavy for the new support layout? My 360 was on nearly all the time as we use it as a DVD/media player and game on it occasionally, and the warranted unit is seeing similar load. Will it fail? Maybe, but I'm sure I'll get another under warranty, and it will likely have a new CPU fab and even more bracing to hopefully deal with it.

[BigD145 @ Feb 14th 2008 1:53PM]

5% is the norm for electronics. 5% within the first 5 years or so.

[Tony @ Feb 14th 2008 7:55PM]

To be more specific, 3%-5% is the average failure rate for consoles.

Also, on the article, several sources claim that the PS3 and Wii have much lower failure rates than 3%. Infact, almost all sources claim 1% or less.

[Miles @ Feb 14th 2008 1:53PM]

I always thought Microsoft of someone else confirmed it at ~33%
Either way anything over 2% is way too high.

[Yipcanjo @ Feb 14th 2008 1:57PM]

I'm a big fan of the X360, and I haven't had any issues with mine (launch unit), but Microsoft *really* needs to get this under control. It's extremely bad PR and it's alienating a whole lotta gamers!!

Wii is (obviously) doing well. The PS3 is starting to gain some steam. Microsoft does NOT need to shoot themselves in the foot over hardware difficulties...

[ogvor @ Feb 14th 2008 2:03PM]

While I love my 360 (and have had the RRoD once) I wouldn't be suprised if this was higher. I literally know no one who hasn't had the RRoD once, and hear so much about Xbox 360 breaking 3-5 times. At least its a great console when it's working!

[Moff @ Feb 14th 2008 3:32PM]

Here you go then. I have never had a RROD on either of my two XBOX 360 consoles. One of which was bought on launch day.

Guess I am the lucky one. :)

I have had my Wii lock up however (and no, I didn't need Viagra to awaken it). It was playing Carnival when it just locked up. In fact, it happened multiple times on that game, so it could just be that particular one.

[Curtis the Claw Game Master @ Feb 14th 2008 4:14PM]

@Moff

Why would you ever play Carnival?

[JAmerican @ Feb 14th 2008 2:03PM]

Ever since I cleaned my 360 of that thermal crap paste M$ uses and replaced it with Arctic Silver 5, and mounted the heatsinks like a real computer, my 360 went from freezing almost daily to not freezing once in 3 months. Even when it froze that one time. It took another month for it to freeze again. My 360 never had red lights and I got it in June 07.

http://www.jamerican.net/?p=48

JAmerican

[RemzVkru @ Feb 14th 2008 2:10PM]

that's what happens when you buy a garbage product from a garbage company. I can really pass on a few good games just to not have any headaches because a company believes in making crap products then selling it to consumers. I never have and never will support microsoft in any way shape or form. My ps3 is doing well for me and i could care less about 2 good games on crapbox!!

[CharlieX @ Feb 14th 2008 2:09PM]

Go away troll. We all know the Ps3 is better built hardware.

[sinjinn @ Feb 14th 2008 2:10PM]

well the 360 has done great so far with the online stuff and the games. it seems like they are great on the software side of things but really dont have a clue when it comes to hardware.

the 360 is noisy as hell and will likely fail . if i had a 360 and it was out of warranty i would be seriously looking at selling it asap.

[Rob @ Feb 14th 2008 2:12PM]

I'd love to get me an Xbox 360, but not until MS fixes their heating problem leading to RRoD. I don't care if they extend the warranty to 10 years. It's the inconvenience of having to deal with the problem, and the time spent without enjoying a product you've paid for. I'm not bashing. I just don't want to chance it with those high percentages. Maybe the late 2008 batch will be better. (crossing fingers in hope)

[KillerSiafu @ Feb 14th 2008 2:14PM]

I had a gen-1 360 that got the RRoD in September, which I sent in and got replaced. My roommate's gen-1 did the same last summer, and the replacement he got for it just got the RRoD last month. Another friend just got the RRoD on his gen-2 console three weeks ago (which he was able to fix temporarily a few times with the towel trick) but he finally caved and sent it in for repair / replacement.

So I'm a little surprised the 16% isn't a little higher... although it seems like after gen-3 or so the percentage is much lower. At least M$ is fixing it (even if you have to be without your console for 4-6 weeks...) I still wouldn't trade my 360 for a ps3