Microsoft holding off on HD DVD reaction, thinks "games" sell consoles
By Paul Miller 
posted Feb 18th 2008 11:40AM
posted Feb 18th 2008 11:40AM
Microsoft hit us up with a statement today regarding its Xbox 360 HD DVD player in light of the format's current woes. The company seems to think the news won't have "any material impact on the Xbox 360 platform or our position in the marketplace." Microsoft goes on to reiterate its line about the largest next-gen games library and its belief that "it is games that sell consoles." For those of you hoping for some sort of Blu-ray attachment for the 360 -- or a sense of purpose for that increasingly obsolete HD DVD player currently hooked up to your 360 -- Microsoft does say that "we will wait until we hear from Toshiba before announcing any specific plans around the Xbox 360 HD DVD player," which seems to imply there's something to announce once HD DVD finally kicks the bucket, but at this point the prospect of a Blu-ray add-on still seems rather optimistic.
Games sell consoles? Really?
well in Soviet Russia...
I still don't understand why everyone's geeking over Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD for that matter). It's a new optical media format, sure, but why's everyone so eager for a new format? Why not just jump on the real "next-gen" format of digital downloads? I can already view 720P movies on my Xbox and Cable box via download 24/7. It's a matter of time before they hit 1080P. Hell, you can go the illegal route and get 1080p content on isohunt or piratebay.
In the near future I see someone coming out with a service where you purchase the license to view a movie/show, which Gates has been talking about for years. You can either download it to a home server or stream it to any tv/device you own (which will be a more viable option as bandwidth increases). Apple's on their way there, as is Netflix and Blockbuster. They know digital downloads will replace optical media, hence why they're investing in it.
The digital download age is coming, yet people are still investing in optical media. I just don't get it.
Some [most?] of us like to (1) support the people who are creating the entertainment we love by actually PAYING for it, (2) own the movies we pay for, and (3) re-watch and loan said movies to friends & family. I've always liked disc, not VOD.
When you own a disc, you don't own the movie, you own the license to watch it. Loaning a disc means your family/friends aren't renting/purchasing the license, meaning you're hurting the first part of your argument.
@ Andrew
Because digital downloads have a gimped bitrate. 6-8Mbps from digital downloads vs. 40Mbps from Bluray means that your digital download may have at least a 1280x720 resolution but it's been compressed to hell to fit that bitrate. It's not even comparable.
Storage.
Bandwidth is ever expanding.
@Andrew
Digital downloads at similar quality to Blu-ray will not be mainstream in America for at least 5-8 years. Because of the broadband monopoly in this country, most cable companies seriously oversell their internet bandwidth. Already, instead of upgrading their infrastructure, they are attempting to throttle or stop P2P and Bittorrent traffic, not because of copyright concerns, but because it uses a lot of bandwidth in an age when many consumers are finally starting to use the internet for things other than email and web browsing. Many broadband providers have already expressed interest in moving away from unlimited plans and moving to capped plans. I can guarantee that the average American wanting a low-cost broadband connection will be capped at 20-50GB or something close to that. This will just not allow regular downloading of 15-20GB 1080P movie files anytime soon.
I'd be willing to bet that if even 20% of broadband subscribers in America regularly downloaded that size of file, the broadband infrastructure in America would become overwhelmed.
A nationwide rollout of fiber-topic "FFTH" connections and upgraded infrastructure at the higher levels of the backbone would probably easily fix this, but that seems like a ways off.
Obviously, this is not the only concern with digital downloads. Although lower bitrate HD rentals will probably become more common, people like to physically have movies they own. At least that seems to be the pattern. It makes sense to me, because I as well like to have physical copies of media that I own. You don't have to worry about backup, you don't have to worry about always hogging all of your broadband bandwidth or having download caps with your ISP, and you get to take pride in having your collection visible and it also makes it easier to rummage through to find a movie.
I agree with Andrew. Bitrate is a bit misleading too. Do some research before posting about bitrates. Just because a file has a higher bitrate doesn't always mean it's better quality.
If it is about the games, then MS needs a higher capacity optical device in their console. Many developers have complained about storage constraints.
Yeah, sure... games sell consoles. That's why PS3 (with a much weaker catalog than 360) outsold the 360 in January? Nah, it looks like games aren't the only thing that sell consoles.
Having consoles available on shelves sells consoles.
Sure, the PS3 has a weaker catalog. But "Much weaker"?
I wonder how true that is. I think the margin between the consoles is getting much, much smaller. The PS3 has a decent set of unique games that the 360 doesn't, such as Time Crisis 4 and the Eye's games. Sure, neither are very great, but I make stop motion claymation animations with my PS3 and play dough. That's a game in my book, and it's a blast.
The 360 has Gears, the PS3 has Uncharted. The 360 has Halo 3, the PS3 has Warhawk.
And whatever margin there is evaporates much more when consumers look to the future. MGS4 and GT5 are enormous games that eclipse pretty much all other next generation games so far. I hate Final Fantasy, but maybe this is also true for that. GTA4 on a Dualshock style controller (which is to many the only way to play it)? 360 doesn't have that, they only have GTA4, and the PS3's GTA downloads won't include a couple of the downloads the 360 gets. I don't recall anyone wanting the PC versions of GTA, even thought hey have extra contend. I think the 360's only star in 2008 is GTA4's extra downloads, thought the PS3 will get something similar. That's a dim star.
So where is this 360's game advantage? It's there. But it's not large and it's getting a hell of a lot smaller.
And it's weird. MS is almost choosing not to have games for 360. Why? Are we going to see a new system from MS?
Keep in mind the 360 has outsold the PS3 for so long that most people that want one already have one. When total PS3 sales in America pass the total sales for the 360 is America then I'll be impressed. Until then I'm not buying that the PS3 is being bought in droves by people looking for a Blu-Ray player.
@ bobby
Even though the console may have sold more for that current month, you forget that the Xbox has more attach rates than the wii and ps3.
price drops sell consoles too. i dont think its a coincidence the sales sky rocketed once the ps3 became affordable.
When total PS3 sales in America pass the total sales for the 360 is America then I'll be impressed.
You do know that the 360 came out a year before the PS3 right? If the PS3 total ever catches up to the Xbox total, I wont just be impressed. There's probably something wrong.
@ Rollins... I don't get it. Having consoles on shelves doesn't really sell consoles. They can sit on the shelves and collect dust after all. If you don't think thats true, just take a gander at any gaming store in Europe or Japan and count the massive number of 360's collecting dust.
@ Jimbo... As of now, I would still say the 360 has a much better catalog than the PS3. I have not played a single great game on PS3, although I'm sure they're coming. I just got Unchartered, so hopefully thats good. I don't think any game PS3 has comes close to Bioshock. I loved that game.
@ Jeremy... I don't understand why you would only look at American sales Further, I think you're silly if you don't believe that droves of people are buying the PS3 as a blu-ray player. I have 2 PS3's and their primary use is watching Blu-ray.
@Bobby D:
In case you haven't read, for the month of January, there was a supply shortage of 360's due to them not replenishing stock after the Christmas season. The one month that PS3 does well coincides with the devastation of HD-DVD, as well as price cuts that had come out previously, and it "just" passed the 360, even while you take into consideration the low stock. Thats not impressive, thats inevitable given the above circumstances.
The PS3 definitely does not have a "much weaker" catalog, especially if you consider the fact the 360 had a year's headstart. Ratchet and Clank. Eye of Judgment. Motorstorm. Uncharted. Warhawk. Folklore. UT3. Resistance. This not counting "smaller" PSN downloads (Calling all Cars, Super Stardust HD, Pixeljunk Monsters) or cross-platform titles (Devil May Cry 4, Virtua Fighter 5, GRAW2, etc).
The 360 has some titles, sure, but the other aspect to look at is the *upcoming* titles. What is the "big" game coming on the 360? I couldn't tell you---that says something. The 360 already had one "big" title in Halo 3, and that came and went with a little disappointment. The PS3 still has huge titles coming down the pipe: FFXIII, MGS4, White Knight Story. Most gamers can name at least two of those titles even if they don't follow the PS3 at all.
And foregoing HD-DVD as a primary choice of media is already starting to hurt the 360. The capacity limits of the DVD are starting to catch up. It won't be long before the texture and geometry differences in HD become very evident on the cross-platform games, and the 360 just can't keep up with the exclusives (Killzone 2, for instance). Then, essentially, the 360 has nothing in its favor: neither games, nor technical prowess, nor installed base.
The PS3 sold 39k more units than the 360.
This is after a year of the PS3 being trashed by 360 sales in the US, recent price cuts, sku revisions, the death of the opposing format, and supposed supply demand problems on the 360s part (hey I live in the least populated state in the union I can't judge that for truth or not). It hardly seems that the PS3 is "stomping" the Xbox in America.
Why only look at the US market? There are only 3 major markets: Japan, Europe and US. Even if one of these markets decides to be the "odd ball" and has a stronger console that the other two are not supporting as well, developers from those other markets WILL make games for that console. Not to mention domestic developers will also favor that console.
oGMo:
At least the DVD drive on the Xbox 360 is fast.. over twice as fast as the Blu-Ray drive on the PS3.. that limitation is starting to haunt the PS3 now with games like Devil May Cry having to basically install all their content on to the hard drive because the slow Blu-Ray drive can't keep up.. and Oblivion had to have multiple copies of their data on the disk to reduce seek times..
@Tekno...
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23916169&user=skektek
@Booby D
That chart just confirms the point I was making.. a 2x Blu-Ray drive like in the PS3 runs at a constant speed which is close to the minimum speed of a 12x DVD drive but only half the maximum speed of the DVD drive..
So with 5x the content and a top speed which is ½ the top speed of the DVD drive there will be a lot of “Loading…” screens or more games which want to preload all their content to the hard drive..
The 360 has reached a new plateau of market saturation in the US, and microsoft has done a rather woeful job of marketing the 360 in asia. And before I get jumped, I was an HD-DVD fan (but not a jackass), and I enjoy the 360 significantly more than the PS3.
But, as of now, PS3 has done a bit of a better job of being a multimedia unit than the 360. I do think microsoft will make a push to erase that lead that will be quite successful, especially with IPTV and better media downloading service on the horizon.
I think they are missing the boat on this one.
I ordered a PS3 this morning not because it can play games but because it is a blu-ray player and also as bonus it can play games.
At least 2 other friends are going to do the same thing for the same reason.
I'm on that boat. Considering buying a PS3 now strictly for the BD, with high hopes that the games library will someday be awesome. In the meantime, I'm busy with all the 360, Wii, and DS games I have yet to finish... which is pretty much all of them...
PS3 has started outselling the 360 now, has to be the BD option as it sure isn't the quality/quantity of games! I own both and prefer the gaming on the 360.
Down the road, PS3 gonna win hands down as games can be created in blu-ray format, vs 4.7 gig dvd on 360.
Microsoft, give in to blue, resistance is futile
muhahahahaa
Err, I think you mean 8.5 not 4.7
@Tom: You're the second person this week I've seen that thinks production DVDs are 4.7.... wake up, that wouldn't hold crap (try "backing up" a standard DVD you purchased to a DVD-R SL)
@Tim: You'd think that this being a tech blog these people would know something about what they're trying to trash ne?
Too bad the 360 won't even utilize the player for games. Seems like a waste to strap on a new player when the 360 could be replaced within 2 years that has an integrated BR player.
I dunno, that is 2 years of having a blu-ray player for probably $200. Seems kind of like a good deal to me.
Maybe they should throw in a Remote, and upgradable firmware and the addon could cost $399 with 5 free movies, and the ability to play ps3 games... oh, wait...
There's no reason for the 360 to use 'any' HD format for games, yet.
No video game that is on a HD medium (like on the PS3) shows any noticable improvements. The main reason why the 360 is more popular is due to the game content, and the experience on Live. Blu Ray is unnecessary for gaming.
@Krono6
BR allows more content for games. Please get off your 360 fanboy chair and come to grips that BR allows unrestricted content for gaming.
Well, the 360 isnt exactly a pinacle of human reliance. In other words, how long do you think your 360 will last, a lifetime? I want my dvd player to last a lifetime, so I'd rather have a usb bluray player that could just plugin to my xbox 720 and xbox 1080.
Of course there's something to announce... if Toshiba calls it quits, they'll discontinue the HD-DVD addon. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll release a BD player.
It better mean they release a BD player or the Xbox 360 will be the Wii of high definition media!
From what i see, hd-dvd add on is nothing but a usb hd-dvd drive. I think if some brave soul were to swap it w/ a blu-ray external usb, should work right?
technically..
I seem to recall some bloke over at Microsoft saying that it would be quite simple for them to come up with a BD drive that would work just like the HD add-on unit. It seems to me this was about 18 months or so ago. I believe this was his response to a question asking what MS would do if HD-DVD lost out to BD.
Or I could just be making that up. I did do a lot of acid back in school...
Boy are they wrong.
I just bought a PS3 after the Netflix announcement. I have a Wii and 360 for games, the PS3 is for movies.
Maybe in the future I'll buy some games, but for people who don't have all three systems the blu ray player might make the console decision for them. With few exclusives, the necessity of having both a 360 and PS3 is extremely low for casual gamers.
Microsoft's stance will only benefit Sony. They should have had a blu ray external drive in the works since the announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show.
"They should have had a blu ray external drive in the works since the announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show."
How do you know they didn't? They haven't made an announcement yet. If the rumors of a May release are accurate then yes, Microsoft had it in the works either before or around the time of the CES announcement. The BD rumors for 360 aren't new, they started just after the hd-dvd drive was released. I'm sure they've had contingency plans in the works for a long time.
great games follow great console sales.
You may find yourself with superior versions of games on the PS3 now that's its obvious the PS3 is a large enough percentage of the market that it is worth development, and now that it's evident how it's cheaper to have the PS3 as lead console.
The 360's game library is better now, but in 2008? 2012? I doubt it will remain better.
Sony is going to be of major hurt if people buy the (selling at a loss) razor and not any blades (games).
The question really isn't whether or not a blu-ray add on will be offered rather just how lond we'll be made to wait, one month or six months. Microsoft being Microsoft it really doesn't matter how many people use it they just want to be able to say that their console supports HD also.
I think Microsoft may *never* release a BluRay add-on... or if so, it'll be late in the game and very reluctantly.
Microsoft only backed HD-DVD because they wanted to fuel the format war. They'd rather neither format ever got a good grip on the market, so that they can try to establish their own online delivery solution as the de-facto standard. if BOTH formats failed, they be happy as a pig in shit.
Has anyone put thought into the fact that the 360 has been out longer than the PS3...would market saturation have anything to do with higher PS3 sales? I own a 360, have for 2 yrs now...I want to buy a PS3. I'm not going to buy another 360. Current sales will add a +1 to PS3, not 360 if I go and do that.
Right...that's why the PS2 which has saturated the market for the past 7+ years is STILL OUTSELLING the 360
Comparing a PS2 and a 360 doesn't really fit in my opinion. Not every parent is going to buy their kid a 400 dollar console when they can get a viable alternative in the Playstation 2 which costs much cheaper and has an incredible amount of inexpensive games.
Proof of this is when a family gets a ps2 for 100$ and tacks on cheap sports games (God knows they're cheaper than sin for old years) in front of you at walmart.
The people who buy the PS2 are different than those who buy the PS3/360. They see it as a gaming platform. They'd only notice a slight difference if they have a small TV, no HDTV, never get online to game, never stream video, never download video from the internet. What'd they notice is the price.
I think the biggest selling point for consoles will become (if not already) the media centre features. I'm thinking as a 23 year old, it becomes less and less practical for me to spend 400-500$ on a gaming machine when I don't use it that often. BUT throw in an HD disc player and the ability to stream video and audio from my computers and all of a sudden you have more of a reason to do it. That being said, I do own a 360 and bought an AppleTV because the streaming with the xbox was mediocre at best (in terms of the menu systems and organizing my files).
great ! apple TV is selling !
Xbox360 had it's fifteen minutes of fame. Sony Ps3 will update it's online services and it's second generation graphics will make xbox look like what it is a speed bump to Sony seizing the video game market going forward.
Because there isn't a third console that's kicking both their asses at the moment.
I like the fact that you didn't point out *good games* as being one of the ways that it will move forward. That's my one complaint about my ps3, where are all the great games? I can list tons for my 360, but the ps3 is definitely a challenge...
Wii is in a class of it's own. It's more a connected board game than a serious online network entertainment juggernaught for serious gamers. The games will come as developers embrace the cell processor which is now happening if you listen to EA and other industry leaders.
Richard,
Off the top of my head, I would list:
Warhawk
Uncharted
Ratchet & Clank
Heavenly Sword (length is only real complaint)
Motorstorm
Resistance
Those are exclusives only. For me, if you take away the multi-platform titles, you're left with a similar list of core titles for the 360 that I would list:
Gears of War
Halo (although overrated since the first one)
Bioshock
Mass Effect
Forza
Again, these are exclusives only. I know there are more but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Regardless, an equally important question should be: How many "great games" will people be adding to the PS3 list this year versus the 360 list? If you believe that the 360 has all the great games and the PS3 has few or none, then you have to agree that the roles look like they will be reversed for 2008.
"Serious gamers"?
There is just something wrong with the term even.
If you're that serious while PLAYING...you're doing something wrong.
That is exactly why the Wii is kicking ass. It's going after a generatin that can still be pleased.
Derbeste,
The Wii is a joke as far as online gaming. Xbox has the best service but Sony will overtake them with it's immersive gaming experience and improved online software platform.
I don't see the PS3 overtake xbox360 any time soon, and I hear that the graphics on the PS3 are actually slightly worse than XBox360 on similar games.
And cutting features and llamafying the PS3 to make the price palatable isn't convincing me.
But it's true that now MS must add a blu-ray player option to reflect the reality of the market, because that will still be the reason people buy PS3's, its blu-ray player, and that will even grow in a few weeks/months when the public at large gets wind that HD-DVD is dead.
On the other hand for MS to pay $30 per player (or whatever it is) licensing to sony must be very painful, and would push the BOM up unpleasantly.
The only reason why xbox titles look slightly better than Ps3 is because they have been ported to the Ps3 you haven't even scratched the surface of the actual power the cell proccsssing power. 2008 is the year you should start seeing some Sony exclusives that will be having xbox fanbous jonesing for a ps3.
It's fascinating to watch the criticism of the PS3 from both fronts. The commenters over on the video game forums say nobody is buying the PS3 to play games. On the other side, the commenters over on the Blu-ray/HD DVD forums say (or at least used to say) nobody is buying the PS3 for its Blu-ray capabilities.
Poor PS3. So much hate.
You can never hate sony enough though :)
I also have a PS3 and a 360 (w/addon). I play games on the 360 (and watch HD DVD for now) and watch BD and DVDs on the PS3. I really don't have any plans to ever use the PS3 for anything but a movie player, but I do love gaming on the 360. So they are half right. That being said, I don't see any point to them releasing a BD addon for the 360 unless its priced under $200 ($150 would be even better).
I'm an old guy, so remeber the 8 bit days.
When all the systems had a small amount of memory the games were fairly much the same on all the systems. as the games got more complicated the computers with more memory had better games because more content could be included.
At the moment the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 is probably a luxury for games, but as games get bigger, with more graphical content and more music the extra capacity will make area difference to the final product.
Not having a high capacity atorage will affect the games in th elong run.
I don't think MS isn't going to release a BD drive... I think they're just waiting on Toshiba to male the word official on their HD DVD drop.
I mean it would seem pretty weak if MS acted like BD were suddenly this whole big deal and that they were panicking to shove an extension out the door before the whole thing even became "official" (even though we all know its coming).
BTW: BD + Xbox360 = IRONY!!!
Neither MS nor Sony owns BD or HD DVD, as has been stated on engadget numerous times it's alliance v. alliance. For the time being both formats use MS codecs, so MS wins regardless or which format succeeds. I fail to see what irony exists when MS simply chose to release an HD DVD addon prior to a (possible) BD addon.
As many people here, I already own a Xbox 360 for gaming and I plan on purchasing a PS3 next month. I don't want to buy a PS3 for the games but for the BR player it is. I would prefer to buy a stand-alone player but it seems the best of the breed is the PS3.
So in the case of PS3, BR sells it. In the case of Xbox 360, games sells it.
I'll buy a PS3, they will be happy but I will probably not buy any games on it except Final Fantasy. Sony won't make money with me on that PS3. (They will with the BR movies I buy but that's another story ). All my games I'll keep buying on my Xbox 360 for quite some time.
Consoles sales are not everything. The games attach rate per console is also important to evaluate the console success.
And for the people saying that Sony is winning because I'll be buying blu-ray movies , tech licensed to them, bla bla... well, we could also include all Microsoft products on the other side, so it's not a valid point.
"So in the case of PS3, BR sells it. In the case of Xbox 360, games sells it."
I absolutely agree. If I was going to buy another gaming system (I've got a Wii, DS Lite, and PS2), it'd be the 360. However, when I buy a BD player, it'll probably be the PS3.
I'm thinking the same thing. I own a 360, but since I just picked up an HDTV in Jan, I've been waiting to see who came out on top of the whole HD-DVD vs Blu ray war. Now that Blu ray seems to be a clear winner, I'm considering picking up a PS3 just because it seems like the best Blu ray player at the moment (only $400 bucks, it can upgrade to the next profile). I really don't have any interest in any PS3 games right now, so it'll just be for watching movies.
uh ya games do sell consels...duh
I'm willing to bet that they're pulling an Apple: publically shrug off users' demand for a feature while scrambling to implement that feature. Then they suddenly release the feature, proclaiming that they've been listening to the customers.
dude, they already did that with HDMI.
Bingo Michael. One could even argue they did just that with the HD-DVD addon. People were asking for a 360 with the HD-DVD integrated (replacing the standard DVD), but they came out with the addon instead. I would say hedging their bets on a Blu-Ray-DVD addon if it becomes the winning standard. I wouldn't be surprised if they had already made the plans and can come out with the blu-ray addon in the time it takes to ramp up production and ship (if they haven't done that already too).
The people who say the PS3 only sells because of it's BR player are complete fanboys of the 360. I own all 3 consoles and honestly the only thing keeping me from selling my 360 is Halo Wars and Lost Odyssey. The PS3 already has some great games you just need to play them and not go by what trash IGN says. Not to mention this year's line up for the PS3 is going to absolutely blow the 360 away.
Fable, Banjoe Kazooie, Ninja Gaiden, Too human, etc. etc.
Not to mention all the crossplatformers that look just as good, usually better, on xbox 360. I doubt it's going to suffer much.
Pretty funny that Microsoft is all of a sudden adopting Nintendo's Wii philosophy after they realized HD-DVD is a sinking boat...
I don't really care either way, to be honest. I am very happy with my Wii and 360. I will most likely be purchasing a PS3 sometime late this year to enjoy HD movies, and perhaps one or two games... but there isn't much on the PS3 that interests me at this time... oh well! I have better things to really worry too much about...
Judging from what I've heard, Sony really made a good decision sticking a blu-ray player in the PS3. They don't give two flying craps whether you use the thing to play games, they just want you to buy blu-ray movies. The PS3 is a trojan horse for blu-ray and nothing else, and it seems it's worked.
considering sony is taking a loss on every console it sells, they intend to sell games in order to recover that loss. though eslling blurays is not going to hurt there cause, they make much more money per unit sold off of games.
God I hate fanboys! Especially these that are claiming to buy a PS3 and never get a game, grow the F@@@ up! There are plenty of games coming out this year for the PS3 like the FF games, Little Big Planet, MGS4, Haze, etc. I've been a true GAMER since my parents bought me my Coleco Vision and since then I've had every system except the Neo Geo and now the Wii and PS3. All systems have haves worth buying even the Jaguar which I had and still has the best Aliens vs Predator game for a console after all these years.
I'm getting a PS3 as soon as FFxiii comes out, but until then I'll keep enjoying my 360 since thankfully I'm a gamer and not some idiot fanboy.
You go, "gamer."
I used to own every console released in North America since 1975, and I got them WHEN THEY WERE INITIALLY RELEASED, so if you want to match "gamer" credentials, I'll be glad to do so.
HOWEVER, I grew up and realized that what counts with game consoles is GAMES. You may like the lame games on the PS3, but I can do without them. I dislike the Japanese-centric style of their games. I dislike Sony's in-house franchises intensely (Ratchet & Clank is horrible! Why do people keep touting it as a reason to own a PS3? It's a reason to AVOID the PS3 in my book.) I will get a PS3, but there are no games on it so far that impress me. NONE. MGS4 is a waste (all of the Metal Gear Solid series after the first one have been terrible. I won't be back for the forth one) and I don't care about ANY of the announced exclusives. They're all made for a particular kind of twitch-gamer, and I haven't been a twitch-gamer since I was a teenager.
But as a cheap-o Blu-Ray player? Sure. I'll go for it if the price is right.
When I hit my 30s, I sold most of my game console collection, with the exception of a few items that were dear to me (the Atari 2600, for example). I'm fine having ONE game console, because ALL of my gaming needs are met by the XBox 360. I am not missing anything by not using a PS3 as a game console.
Incidentally, the PS3 is the first game console I didn't get at launch since the early 1980s. (The Wii is the second, BTW. I think the Wii is a useless little toy, and I'm sick of Nintendo's gimmicky game franchises.)
I was in line the day the frickin' Panasonic 3DO was out, and shelled out $800 for it... If the PS3 fell beneath even that ideal, then you know it was a flawed launch. I even stood in line for a Coleco Adam when they made those available, and THAT thing was a waste of time and money.
At some point you start asking yourself the question: "Will I ever use this?" and when I did that regarding the PS3 at launch, my answer was "nope."
I'm still thinking I would prefer a nice, low-cost Blu-Ray player to the Sony offering this time around. The PS3 is ugly and doesn't impress me as a game system. I'm not sure it's worth the money at this point, even as a Blu-Ray player, if other Blu-Ray players start to show up under $200 soon.
We'll see.
But please, spare me the "I'm a GAMER" babble. It carries no weight in the PS3 question. Even us old-school hardcore gamers have started to see through Sony's bad marketing and poor treatment of game developers. If a console isn't easy to develop for, then no good games will show up.
Like ZeroCorpse said, just because some of us aren't interested in any PS3 exclusive games doesn't mean we aren't "gamers". You listed a few games and the only one that kinda gets my attention is MGS. As for the third party games, most seem to run better on the 360.
Having said that, if we really were fanboys we wouldn't consider picking up a PS3 at all.
Wouldn't Microsoft backing Blu-Ray only pad the pockets of their number one competitor in the game market?
I have a PS3, which i got for a blu-ray player at first. But now theyhave some great games out on it now and once GT5 is out goodnight. As long as i got COD4 until then i'm happy. (I have all systems, not hating on any...Except no third-party games for Wii)
PS3 and Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are trash...
Who really wants to pay 20 extra dollars for a DVD in the first place...
But it seems clear that new DVD's have the quality purposely lowered for no reason. How can brave-heart, LOTR's, and Terminator 2 look extremely good in normal DVD quality... Then all the new DVD's come out pixelated?
All thats left now for the HDDVD backers is an excersize in not trying to look like complete idiots.Here we have a typical "we are not to bothered" reaction.
Its a bit like getting punched in the face and acting like it didn't hurt , so you don't look like a total pussy.
Why is it the PS3 fanboys have to come out of the woodwork to defend the PS3 with the mere mention of "Blu-Ray Trojan Horse"?
I have a Wii, and I have a 360. Like so many others here, I have those 2 consoles for games. I just got an HDTV, and have not yet bought a high-def movie player, because I didn't want to waste hundreds of dollars on a failed format. Now that the "war" is over, I'll likely purchase a PS3 for it's Blu-ray player once Sony drops the price to $300. I'm not interested in the PS3 for games. And, I'm not an immature douche for thinking that way.
If you had the choice of a standalone player for $500+ that could potentially be obsolete by the time the next firmware updates arrives...or... you could get a PS3 that will likely keep up to date (seeing as Sony has staked their rep on it), for a lot less cash, what would you choose? It's not right, and seems almost like a conspiracy that Sony hatched this crap; but hey, who cares when you save money on the player?
Seems to me like the 360 fanboys are sour that the PS3 is now their best option if they want to watch new HD movies. And those that buy a PS3 for the BD player will soon realize that there are some great games on and coming to the system.
It's funny how this is like a repeat in history between VHS and Betamax. VHS won because it was cheaper but that doesn't seem to be the case with BR and HD. BR will always be more expensive because the discs and the players are more expensive to make than for HD. Another funny thing is that both BR and HD aren't really the next gen. They are just a different way of fitting data on the same type of disc structure. We've had those for years now. Digital storage is the real next gen, with streaming, downloading, high capacity flash memory, etc. And with hard drives with up to a terrabyte that you can by in places like Best Buy now, you will never have to worry about storage space. Not to mention all the space you'll be saving when you don't need to store dvd cases anymore. It's only a matter of time with services like Verizon FIOS which have massive potential for bandwidth.
Within ten years, you'll be able to download a 1080p movie or whatever resolution they have out at the time in less than a minute. That's a lot quicker and cheaper than having to go to the store. not to mention larger libraries.
If the 360 adapts to the Blu-ray format, does this mean it will eventually be able to run PS3 games, since they're Blu-ray?
In the case of the PS3. I don't think it really matters to Sony whether or not the consumer at this point buys games (Using it only as a BD player) or buys movies (Using it only as a game console), because in the end that is 1 one hardware sold regardless, and over time, most people will find something on either side that they find that they want, and so, in the end, it will all blend.
Engadget has been infiltrated by alot of Microsoft consumer folks with nothing else to do but post bashing Ps3 and praising the Xbox. Ps3 is the better value overall.
Doesn't that sound like Apple? Aren't they the ones that pay people to say pro-Apple stuff and anti-MS stuff? :)
I think microsoft pays morons to bash the PS3 and support their crap failing system hahahaha. I mean really the whole 360 has better games is now gonna come to a halt, so what will they use next in their attacks.......hey how about "my 360 has a 30% failure rate hahaha and your ps3 doesn't!!! no wonder bill gates got rich, cause there's a sucker born every minute
Someone here did NOT just put Warhawk in the same category as Halo 3. No. No. Bad Engadget poster.
The PS3's strong point (and the reason I think it outsold Xbox 360 last month) is that it is both the cheapest (or at least, equally cheap) player, its upgradeable to Profile 2.0, and it supports HDMI 1.3. Woe be those who forget it does not have an active IR port though...
With all of that and the 40 gig hard drive for photos and music, and that one day it may have Apple TV like capabilities, I believe (and my work at BestBuy would lend strong support to) that most PS3 buyers to date have mainly bought it as the "Best Blue-Ray Player for the money." Its games library, regardless of what is said by people who like it when Sony is banging them, is immensely weaker than the Xbox 360.
That said, I know a lot of 360 owners will be buying a PS3 now, because its the best blu-ray player (and, they tell themselves at night, they don't have to wait for MGS4 to get a "Substance" version on the 360). Microsoft better release a Blu-Ray add-on soon, or they risk loosing a lot of business. Even more, it needs priced so that its equally as expensive to buy a Xbox 360 and BD add-on, or they will just lose sales to the PS3 still.
But with a BD add-on thats competitively priced, they can expect to get both the movie-hungry crowd and the gamer crowd. But while games will still purchase a 360, they will also buy a PS3 sometime afterwards if they have to in order to play movies (unless a really cheap BD player comes out).
You nailed it.
(And by the way, Engadget lords, this is the kind of Best Buy employee I'm always defending. He knows his stuff.)
Sony put more effort into the Blu-Ray portion of their current console than they did making it easy for developers to make games on it. As a result, it's being sold as a fancy Blu-Ray player with a few "extra" features. They might as well stick it in the home theater department and take it out of media/gaming.
If Microsoft has a Blu-Ray add-on, I'll be getting it and forgoing the Sony console. MS has an opportunity here. They'd better not drop the ball, or they lose a lot of sale to Sony.
I agree Zerocorpse. The 360 HD-DVD's value is quickly approaching worthless.
Please, please, please MS allow me to trade in my current HD addon player for a Blu-ray addon when you put these out.
It's almost like everyone forgot to actually visually compare the two formats. HD-DVD is and has been a much better and higher quality format. Blu-ray has flaws with both its concept and quality of playback. Either way, they both suck. Neither of them are good enough to take over as the new standard for HD movies. I think banking on either of them was a bad idea. They should step back and maybe rethink the whole concept of HD media. As far as I can tell, iTunes and XBL seem to have the most purchases of HD content... not disc media.
Regardless. No one is buying a PS3 for Blu-ray. No one will buy a 360 just because it has blu-ray. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. I think Xbox should just fully support external hard drive attachments and allow you to purchase and download full movies in 1080p for full purchase price and KEEP them. No more disc media stuff. That way you can also recover any of the movies you own if your hard drive goes bad.