Microsoft holding off on HD DVD reaction, thinks "games" sell consoles

Microsoft hit us up with a statement today regarding its Xbox 360 HD DVD player in light of the format's current woes. The company seems to think the news won't have "any material impact on the Xbox 360 platform or our position in the marketplace." Microsoft goes on to reiterate its line about the largest next-gen games library and its belief that "it is games that sell consoles." For those of you hoping for some sort of Blu-ray attachment for the 360 -- or a sense of purpose for that increasingly obsolete HD DVD player currently hooked up to your 360 -- Microsoft does say that "we will wait until we hear from Toshiba before announcing any specific plans around the Xbox 360 HD DVD player," which seems to imply there's something to announce once HD DVD finally kicks the bucket, but at this point the prospect of a Blu-ray add-on still seems rather optimistic.

[Backlin @ Feb 18th 2008 11:44AM]

Games sell consoles? Really?

[JohnTitor @ Feb 18th 2008 12:05PM]

well in Soviet Russia...

[Andrew @ Feb 18th 2008 12:56PM]

I still don't understand why everyone's geeking over Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD for that matter). It's a new optical media format, sure, but why's everyone so eager for a new format? Why not just jump on the real "next-gen" format of digital downloads? I can already view 720P movies on my Xbox and Cable box via download 24/7. It's a matter of time before they hit 1080P. Hell, you can go the illegal route and get 1080p content on isohunt or piratebay.

In the near future I see someone coming out with a service where you purchase the license to view a movie/show, which Gates has been talking about for years. You can either download it to a home server or stream it to any tv/device you own (which will be a more viable option as bandwidth increases). Apple's on their way there, as is Netflix and Blockbuster. They know digital downloads will replace optical media, hence why they're investing in it.

The digital download age is coming, yet people are still investing in optical media. I just don't get it.

[Mr. E @ Feb 18th 2008 1:21PM]

Some [most?] of us like to (1) support the people who are creating the entertainment we love by actually PAYING for it, (2) own the movies we pay for, and (3) re-watch and loan said movies to friends & family. I've always liked disc, not VOD.

[Andrew @ Feb 18th 2008 1:31PM]

When you own a disc, you don't own the movie, you own the license to watch it. Loaning a disc means your family/friends aren't renting/purchasing the license, meaning you're hurting the first part of your argument.

[dagamer34 @ Feb 18th 2008 1:33PM]

@ Andrew

Because digital downloads have a gimped bitrate. 6-8Mbps from digital downloads vs. 40Mbps from Bluray means that your digital download may have at least a 1280x720 resolution but it's been compressed to hell to fit that bitrate. It's not even comparable.

[JDizzle @ Feb 18th 2008 2:31PM]

Storage.

[Andrew @ Feb 18th 2008 3:44PM]

Bandwidth is ever expanding.

[Sam Winter @ Feb 18th 2008 8:53PM]

@Andrew

Digital downloads at similar quality to Blu-ray will not be mainstream in America for at least 5-8 years. Because of the broadband monopoly in this country, most cable companies seriously oversell their internet bandwidth. Already, instead of upgrading their infrastructure, they are attempting to throttle or stop P2P and Bittorrent traffic, not because of copyright concerns, but because it uses a lot of bandwidth in an age when many consumers are finally starting to use the internet for things other than email and web browsing. Many broadband providers have already expressed interest in moving away from unlimited plans and moving to capped plans. I can guarantee that the average American wanting a low-cost broadband connection will be capped at 20-50GB or something close to that. This will just not allow regular downloading of 15-20GB 1080P movie files anytime soon.
I'd be willing to bet that if even 20% of broadband subscribers in America regularly downloaded that size of file, the broadband infrastructure in America would become overwhelmed.
A nationwide rollout of fiber-topic "FFTH" connections and upgraded infrastructure at the higher levels of the backbone would probably easily fix this, but that seems like a ways off.

Obviously, this is not the only concern with digital downloads. Although lower bitrate HD rentals will probably become more common, people like to physically have movies they own. At least that seems to be the pattern. It makes sense to me, because I as well like to have physical copies of media that I own. You don't have to worry about backup, you don't have to worry about always hogging all of your broadband bandwidth or having download caps with your ISP, and you get to take pride in having your collection visible and it also makes it easier to rummage through to find a movie.

[Smoke_Dawg_187 @ Feb 18th 2008 10:55PM]

I agree with Andrew. Bitrate is a bit misleading too. Do some research before posting about bitrates. Just because a file has a higher bitrate doesn't always mean it's better quality.

[junk @ Feb 18th 2008 1:36PM]

If it is about the games, then MS needs a higher capacity optical device in their console. Many developers have complained about storage constraints.

[Bobby D @ Feb 18th 2008 11:50AM]

Yeah, sure... games sell consoles. That's why PS3 (with a much weaker catalog than 360) outsold the 360 in January? Nah, it looks like games aren't the only thing that sell consoles.

[Rollins @ Feb 18th 2008 12:00PM]

Having consoles available on shelves sells consoles.

[Jimbo @ Feb 18th 2008 12:12PM]

Sure, the PS3 has a weaker catalog. But "Much weaker"?

I wonder how true that is. I think the margin between the consoles is getting much, much smaller. The PS3 has a decent set of unique games that the 360 doesn't, such as Time Crisis 4 and the Eye's games. Sure, neither are very great, but I make stop motion claymation animations with my PS3 and play dough. That's a game in my book, and it's a blast.

The 360 has Gears, the PS3 has Uncharted. The 360 has Halo 3, the PS3 has Warhawk.

And whatever margin there is evaporates much more when consumers look to the future. MGS4 and GT5 are enormous games that eclipse pretty much all other next generation games so far. I hate Final Fantasy, but maybe this is also true for that. GTA4 on a Dualshock style controller (which is to many the only way to play it)? 360 doesn't have that, they only have GTA4, and the PS3's GTA downloads won't include a couple of the downloads the 360 gets. I don't recall anyone wanting the PC versions of GTA, even thought hey have extra contend. I think the 360's only star in 2008 is GTA4's extra downloads, thought the PS3 will get something similar. That's a dim star.

So where is this 360's game advantage? It's there. But it's not large and it's getting a hell of a lot smaller.

And it's weird. MS is almost choosing not to have games for 360. Why? Are we going to see a new system from MS?

[Jeremy @ Feb 18th 2008 12:15PM]

Keep in mind the 360 has outsold the PS3 for so long that most people that want one already have one. When total PS3 sales in America pass the total sales for the 360 is America then I'll be impressed. Until then I'm not buying that the PS3 is being bought in droves by people looking for a Blu-Ray player.

[Totalfixation @ Feb 18th 2008 12:23PM]

@ bobby

Even though the console may have sold more for that current month, you forget that the Xbox has more attach rates than the wii and ps3.

[Gadget Chick @ Feb 18th 2008 12:24PM]

price drops sell consoles too. i dont think its a coincidence the sales sky rocketed once the ps3 became affordable.

[2Perfect @ Feb 18th 2008 12:24PM]

When total PS3 sales in America pass the total sales for the 360 is America then I'll be impressed.

You do know that the 360 came out a year before the PS3 right? If the PS3 total ever catches up to the Xbox total, I wont just be impressed. There's probably something wrong.

[Bobb D @ Feb 18th 2008 12:33PM]

@ Rollins... I don't get it. Having consoles on shelves doesn't really sell consoles. They can sit on the shelves and collect dust after all. If you don't think thats true, just take a gander at any gaming store in Europe or Japan and count the massive number of 360's collecting dust.

@ Jimbo... As of now, I would still say the 360 has a much better catalog than the PS3. I have not played a single great game on PS3, although I'm sure they're coming. I just got Unchartered, so hopefully thats good. I don't think any game PS3 has comes close to Bioshock. I loved that game.

@ Jeremy... I don't understand why you would only look at American sales Further, I think you're silly if you don't believe that droves of people are buying the PS3 as a blu-ray player. I have 2 PS3's and their primary use is watching Blu-ray.

[Ruben @ Feb 18th 2008 12:39PM]

@Bobby D:

In case you haven't read, for the month of January, there was a supply shortage of 360's due to them not replenishing stock after the Christmas season. The one month that PS3 does well coincides with the devastation of HD-DVD, as well as price cuts that had come out previously, and it "just" passed the 360, even while you take into consideration the low stock. Thats not impressive, thats inevitable given the above circumstances.

[oGMo @ Feb 18th 2008 12:49PM]

The PS3 definitely does not have a "much weaker" catalog, especially if you consider the fact the 360 had a year's headstart. Ratchet and Clank. Eye of Judgment. Motorstorm. Uncharted. Warhawk. Folklore. UT3. Resistance. This not counting "smaller" PSN downloads (Calling all Cars, Super Stardust HD, Pixeljunk Monsters) or cross-platform titles (Devil May Cry 4, Virtua Fighter 5, GRAW2, etc).

The 360 has some titles, sure, but the other aspect to look at is the *upcoming* titles. What is the "big" game coming on the 360? I couldn't tell you---that says something. The 360 already had one "big" title in Halo 3, and that came and went with a little disappointment. The PS3 still has huge titles coming down the pipe: FFXIII, MGS4, White Knight Story. Most gamers can name at least two of those titles even if they don't follow the PS3 at all.

And foregoing HD-DVD as a primary choice of media is already starting to hurt the 360. The capacity limits of the DVD are starting to catch up. It won't be long before the texture and geometry differences in HD become very evident on the cross-platform games, and the 360 just can't keep up with the exclusives (Killzone 2, for instance). Then, essentially, the 360 has nothing in its favor: neither games, nor technical prowess, nor installed base.

[Rususeruru @ Feb 18th 2008 1:36PM]

The PS3 sold 39k more units than the 360.

This is after a year of the PS3 being trashed by 360 sales in the US, recent price cuts, sku revisions, the death of the opposing format, and supposed supply demand problems on the 360s part (hey I live in the least populated state in the union I can't judge that for truth or not). It hardly seems that the PS3 is "stomping" the Xbox in America.

Why only look at the US market? There are only 3 major markets: Japan, Europe and US. Even if one of these markets decides to be the "odd ball" and has a stronger console that the other two are not supporting as well, developers from those other markets WILL make games for that console. Not to mention domestic developers will also favor that console.

[TeknoKid @ Feb 18th 2008 2:32PM]

oGMo:

At least the DVD drive on the Xbox 360 is fast.. over twice as fast as the Blu-Ray drive on the PS3.. that limitation is starting to haunt the PS3 now with games like Devil May Cry having to basically install all their content on to the hard drive because the slow Blu-Ray drive can't keep up.. and Oblivion had to have multiple copies of their data on the disk to reduce seek times..

[Booby D @ Feb 18th 2008 2:42PM]

@Tekno...

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23916169&user=skektek

[TeknoKid @ Feb 18th 2008 2:56PM]

@Booby D

That chart just confirms the point I was making.. a 2x Blu-Ray drive like in the PS3 runs at a constant speed which is close to the minimum speed of a 12x DVD drive but only half the maximum speed of the DVD drive..

So with 5x the content and a top speed which is ½ the top speed of the DVD drive there will be a lot of “Loading…” screens or more games which want to preload all their content to the hard drive..

[Sam @ Feb 18th 2008 5:56PM]

The 360 has reached a new plateau of market saturation in the US, and microsoft has done a rather woeful job of marketing the 360 in asia. And before I get jumped, I was an HD-DVD fan (but not a jackass), and I enjoy the 360 significantly more than the PS3.

But, as of now, PS3 has done a bit of a better job of being a multimedia unit than the 360. I do think microsoft will make a push to erase that lead that will be quite successful, especially with IPTV and better media downloading service on the horizon.

[IcePick74 @ Feb 18th 2008 11:54AM]

I think they are missing the boat on this one.
I ordered a PS3 this morning not because it can play games but because it is a blu-ray player and also as bonus it can play games.

At least 2 other friends are going to do the same thing for the same reason.

[Sean D. @ Feb 18th 2008 1:02PM]

I'm on that boat. Considering buying a PS3 now strictly for the BD, with high hopes that the games library will someday be awesome. In the meantime, I'm busy with all the 360, Wii, and DS games I have yet to finish... which is pretty much all of them...

[rxse7en @ Feb 18th 2008 11:50AM]

PS3 has started outselling the 360 now, has to be the BD option as it sure isn't the quality/quantity of games! I own both and prefer the gaming on the 360.

[tom @ Feb 18th 2008 12:38PM]

Down the road, PS3 gonna win hands down as games can be created in blu-ray format, vs 4.7 gig dvd on 360.

Microsoft, give in to blue, resistance is futile

muhahahahaa

[Tim @ Feb 18th 2008 12:54PM]

Err, I think you mean 8.5 not 4.7

[Rususeruru @ Feb 18th 2008 1:48PM]

@Tom: You're the second person this week I've seen that thinks production DVDs are 4.7.... wake up, that wouldn't hold crap (try "backing up" a standard DVD you purchased to a DVD-R SL)

@Tim: You'd think that this being a tech blog these people would know something about what they're trying to trash ne?

[Brian Jarrett @ Feb 18th 2008 11:51AM]

Too bad the 360 won't even utilize the player for games. Seems like a waste to strap on a new player when the 360 could be replaced within 2 years that has an integrated BR player.

[Geoff @ Feb 18th 2008 12:21PM]

I dunno, that is 2 years of having a blu-ray player for probably $200. Seems kind of like a good deal to me.

[Flit @ Feb 18th 2008 12:21PM]

Maybe they should throw in a Remote, and upgradable firmware and the addon could cost $399 with 5 free movies, and the ability to play ps3 games... oh, wait...

[Krono6 @ Feb 18th 2008 2:17PM]

There's no reason for the 360 to use 'any' HD format for games, yet.
No video game that is on a HD medium (like on the PS3) shows any noticable improvements. The main reason why the 360 is more popular is due to the game content, and the experience on Live. Blu Ray is unnecessary for gaming.

[Brian Jarrett @ Feb 18th 2008 3:05PM]

@Krono6

BR allows more content for games. Please get off your 360 fanboy chair and come to grips that BR allows unrestricted content for gaming.

[Tiptup300 @ Feb 18th 2008 3:16PM]

Well, the 360 isnt exactly a pinacle of human reliance. In other words, how long do you think your 360 will last, a lifetime? I want my dvd player to last a lifetime, so I'd rather have a usb bluray player that could just plugin to my xbox 720 and xbox 1080.

[John @ Feb 18th 2008 11:55AM]

Of course there's something to announce... if Toshiba calls it quits, they'll discontinue the HD-DVD addon. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll release a BD player.

[computer.dude.28 @ Feb 18th 2008 12:00PM]

It better mean they release a BD player or the Xbox 360 will be the Wii of high definition media!

[tom @ Feb 18th 2008 12:40PM]

From what i see, hd-dvd add on is nothing but a usb hd-dvd drive. I think if some brave soul were to swap it w/ a blu-ray external usb, should work right?

technically..

[OldeFortran @ Feb 18th 2008 2:37PM]

I seem to recall some bloke over at Microsoft saying that it would be quite simple for them to come up with a BD drive that would work just like the HD add-on unit. It seems to me this was about 18 months or so ago. I believe this was his response to a question asking what MS would do if HD-DVD lost out to BD.

Or I could just be making that up. I did do a lot of acid back in school...

[Scribbins @ Feb 18th 2008 11:56AM]

Boy are they wrong.

I just bought a PS3 after the Netflix announcement. I have a Wii and 360 for games, the PS3 is for movies.

Maybe in the future I'll buy some games, but for people who don't have all three systems the blu ray player might make the console decision for them. With few exclusives, the necessity of having both a 360 and PS3 is extremely low for casual gamers.

Microsoft's stance will only benefit Sony. They should have had a blu ray external drive in the works since the announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show.

[Richard @ Feb 18th 2008 12:02PM]

"They should have had a blu ray external drive in the works since the announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show."

How do you know they didn't? They haven't made an announcement yet. If the rumors of a May release are accurate then yes, Microsoft had it in the works either before or around the time of the CES announcement. The BD rumors for 360 aren't new, they started just after the hd-dvd drive was released. I'm sure they've had contingency plans in the works for a long time.

[Jimbo @ Feb 18th 2008 3:59PM]

great games follow great console sales.

You may find yourself with superior versions of games on the PS3 now that's its obvious the PS3 is a large enough percentage of the market that it is worth development, and now that it's evident how it's cheaper to have the PS3 as lead console.

The 360's game library is better now, but in 2008? 2012? I doubt it will remain better.

[Mile @ Feb 18th 2008 1:02PM]

Sony is going to be of major hurt if people buy the (selling at a loss) razor and not any blades (games).

[System48 @ Feb 18th 2008 11:55AM]

The question really isn't whether or not a blu-ray add on will be offered rather just how lond we'll be made to wait, one month or six months. Microsoft being Microsoft it really doesn't matter how many people use it they just want to be able to say that their console supports HD also.

[Jeff @ Feb 18th 2008 12:54PM]

I think Microsoft may *never* release a BluRay add-on... or if so, it'll be late in the game and very reluctantly.

Microsoft only backed HD-DVD because they wanted to fuel the format war. They'd rather neither format ever got a good grip on the market, so that they can try to establish their own online delivery solution as the de-facto standard. if BOTH formats failed, they be happy as a pig in shit.

[dar268 @ Feb 18th 2008 11:59AM]

Has anyone put thought into the fact that the 360 has been out longer than the PS3...would market saturation have anything to do with higher PS3 sales? I own a 360, have for 2 yrs now...I want to buy a PS3. I'm not going to buy another 360. Current sales will add a +1 to PS3, not 360 if I go and do that.

[Pastafarian @ Feb 18th 2008 12:42PM]

Right...that's why the PS2 which has saturated the market for the past 7+ years is STILL OUTSELLING the 360