$50,000 is STILL too much, and this is coming from a guy who rides an electric bicycle 3/4 of the year! I wouldn't (and couldn't) pay $50,000 for a car.
Tesla needs to aim lower. MUCH lower. They need to make a small, compact commuter car for in-town driving, and they need to make it cost $22,999 or less. That's the sweet spot to get EVs into consumer hands. This $50,000 to $100,000 bull is just going to make people say, "See? It's a niche product. Nobody wants one!"
If someone gets an electric car on the market and prices it competitively with the other vehicles aimed at younger buyers (especially those buying their first new car), they'll make a killing and cement themselves as the ones who made EVs commonplace and acceptable.
Really, they should be making 2-person vehicles with a small amount of cargo space, and charging less than $10,000 for them. Most people do not need a full-sized sedan or SUV for their daily commute or trips to the grocery store, movie theater, park, or wherever else within town. They're driving less than 20 miles a day, and a small, inexpensive car that could handle that duty most of the time would be ideal. They can still get a bigger gas-drinker, but that would be reserved for longer trips, or bigger carpools.
Like I said, I get by on a *bike* for 3/4 of the year (I'd do it all year, but winter in Michigan sucks). Most of the time, I just need transportation to get to work, or run to the grocery store to pick up a few things, and the electric bike is ideal for that. I have enough cargo space for a few bags of groceries, or a few small parcels, or one big parcel.
I also get around faster on the bike. No looking for parking, or dealing with rush traffic. On long treks, I'll fall behind the cars, but on short trips (5 miles or less) I can usually beat them within the city.
But for an electric car to be $50,000 -- That's ridiculous. I love EVs, but this is insulting.
Tesla isn't exactly Honda. I'm suprised it's actually going to be this cheap compared to their Roadster. Also, how else are they going to make up the cash they're investing?
Honestly, we're proud of you for not owning a car. You have enlightened the rest of us fools as to the advantages of commuting by bicycle.
Unfortunately, your grasp on economics is a bit weaker. If anybody could make a $10k electric car, it would already be on the market! As the rest of the world knows, Tesla's plan has always been to introduce their premium roadster, sell it to the rich, and use the proceeds to help fund a passenger sedan. As volumes increase, economies of scale will too, and they'll be able to make cheaper and cheaper cars.
Frankly, $50k is not that much for a modern car -- hell, I work almost next door to Tesla's factory, and there are very few cars on the roads around here that cost less than $50k new. They'll sell like gangbusters.
Maybe by 2030 they'll make that $10k electric car and you can buy one then.
All of the electric car technology, as well as the bio's have been rendered moot by something far better....stay tuned for news. Anything that plugs-in is not better technology; it only shifts the emissions to a power plant somewhere. An actual solution will not use a plug-in power source. Plug-ins have been around for decades. The enormous ill-directed investments bother me a lot.
Who said I don't own a car? I do indeed make monthly payments on a 2004 Chevrolet which I purchased new that year. I just don't drive it all the time because it's not necessary to waste the fuel for a ride to the corner market or someplace else nearby without the need to carry a passenger. Thanks for attempting to be snarky and condescending without knowing the whole story. I wasn't being smug; I was merely relating my experience with electric vehicles, seeing as there probably aren't a lot of EV owners on Engadget. If that offends you somehow, then you can bite me. I didn't ask for your approval and I didn't judge your way of life.
There ARE electric cars that are around $10k but they aren't available in the U.S. market. Electric vehicles are fairly popular in Asia, and companies like ZAP! are in the process of attempting to get these smaller commuter cars into the United States for an affordable price. The ZAP! Xebra MSRP is $11,200 and there are others in the Asian market that come in under the $10k mark. So YOUR grasp of economics is the one that's weak. You say "if it were possible it would be on the market" --- Well, it is. That's why I find Tesla's pricing to be so abhorrent and unwarranted. They're milking American investors and consumers on the "hot new" technology, when the ability to do it in a cost-effective way has been around for quite a long time, now. I sincerely doubt that they'll drop their price if they can keep selling at a premium.
Again, your economics are weak: Making more doesn't mean they'll eventually be less expensive. If that were the case, SUVs would be about $8,000 right now, considering how many of them they crank out a year. They set the precedent with the first batch of cars, and they'll stick to it if they can continue to profit wildly from it.
Yes, $50k is too much for a modern car. My Chevy cost $12k new. Granted, I don't go in for luxury junk like heated seats and voice-activated stereos, but my car has been reliable and gets me where I'm going. I would never, EVER spend $50k on a car, even if I were rich. That's just throwing money into a status symbol. The only sedan, coupe or hatchbacks on the market right now that come close to $50k are luxury vehicles and sports cars. The only car in Chevy's 2008 lineup that costs near $50,000 is the Corvette. Please, tell me which non-luxury, non-sports sedan, coupe, or hatchback costs $50,000 if you can. I doubt you'll find one.
Waiting until 2030 isn't necessary. If I wanted to pay the import fees, and deal with the hassle of getting my state government to allow it on the road, I could get a 10k electric car from overseas. However, the process of getting a car from overseas is costly, and there's no guarantee I would be allowed to drive it on American roads. All I'm saying is that the proof of concept has already been out there, and that a company trying to build electric cars for the American market needs to be competitive and introduce their vehicle at a *reasonable* price. $50,000 for a Tesla sedan is ridiculous. $30,000 for the same sedan is at least in competition with other American vehicles.
@realscience:
The actual power source for an electric car can vary. The electric vehicle's motor is what matters. You don't have to produce that electricity with fossil fuels. You can produce the electricity with hydro-power, wind power, solar power, nuclear, hydrogen, or a bunch of convicts running in a treadmill. Whatever "great new technology" you're talking about in oh-so-vague terms is likely no more than another way to generate energy, and thus can generate electricity (which is what we use to power just about everything in our society). If it generates electricity, then it can be used to power electric vehicles.
Unless you're talking about the air-powered car, which is pretty cool. I doubt we'll see that one mass-marketed because there's just no profit in it for some secondary suppliers. We could make a few different kinds of cars that don't require buying fuel from some company, but these wonderful fantasy vehicles never get past concept cars, because the oil companies, electric companies, and other car companies squash them.
The only road-worthy vehicles that will ever be mass-produced in America are vehicles that have a secondary fuel requirement-- You'll have to pay someone to keep your vehicle moving on the road, somewhere along the line. The big corporations won't LET it be any other way.
You assume that in my area, our electric companies burn coal. I used to live near a nuclear power plant at one point, and a hydroelectric plant at another. The way they generate the electricity for my EV changes, but the vehicle itself doesn't need a different motor to take advantage of the end product.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
$50,000 is STILL too much, and this is coming from a guy who rides an electric bicycle 3/4 of the year! I wouldn't (and couldn't) pay $50,000 for a car.
Tesla needs to aim lower. MUCH lower. They need to make a small, compact commuter car for in-town driving, and they need to make it cost $22,999 or less. That's the sweet spot to get EVs into consumer hands. This $50,000 to $100,000 bull is just going to make people say, "See? It's a niche product. Nobody wants one!"
If someone gets an electric car on the market and prices it competitively with the other vehicles aimed at younger buyers (especially those buying their first new car), they'll make a killing and cement themselves as the ones who made EVs commonplace and acceptable.
Really, they should be making 2-person vehicles with a small amount of cargo space, and charging less than $10,000 for them. Most people do not need a full-sized sedan or SUV for their daily commute or trips to the grocery store, movie theater, park, or wherever else within town. They're driving less than 20 miles a day, and a small, inexpensive car that could handle that duty most of the time would be ideal. They can still get a bigger gas-drinker, but that would be reserved for longer trips, or bigger carpools.
Like I said, I get by on a *bike* for 3/4 of the year (I'd do it all year, but winter in Michigan sucks). Most of the time, I just need transportation to get to work, or run to the grocery store to pick up a few things, and the electric bike is ideal for that. I have enough cargo space for a few bags of groceries, or a few small parcels, or one big parcel.
I also get around faster on the bike. No looking for parking, or dealing with rush traffic. On long treks, I'll fall behind the cars, but on short trips (5 miles or less) I can usually beat them within the city.
But for an electric car to be $50,000 -- That's ridiculous. I love EVs, but this is insulting.
Tesla isn't exactly Honda. I'm suprised it's actually going to be this cheap compared to their Roadster. Also, how else are they going to make up the cash they're investing?
If all else, it's a step in the right direction.
I have an Onion article for you, "Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television"
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694
Honestly, we're proud of you for not owning a car. You have enlightened the rest of us fools as to the advantages of commuting by bicycle.
Unfortunately, your grasp on economics is a bit weaker. If anybody could make a $10k electric car, it would already be on the market! As the rest of the world knows, Tesla's plan has always been to introduce their premium roadster, sell it to the rich, and use the proceeds to help fund a passenger sedan. As volumes increase, economies of scale will too, and they'll be able to make cheaper and cheaper cars.
Frankly, $50k is not that much for a modern car -- hell, I work almost next door to Tesla's factory, and there are very few cars on the roads around here that cost less than $50k new. They'll sell like gangbusters.
Maybe by 2030 they'll make that $10k electric car and you can buy one then.
All of the electric car technology, as well as the bio's have been rendered moot by something far better....stay tuned for news. Anything that plugs-in is not better technology; it only shifts the emissions to a power plant somewhere. An actual solution will not use a plug-in power source. Plug-ins have been around for decades. The enormous ill-directed investments bother me a lot.
@Reid
Who said I don't own a car? I do indeed make monthly payments on a 2004 Chevrolet which I purchased new that year. I just don't drive it all the time because it's not necessary to waste the fuel for a ride to the corner market or someplace else nearby without the need to carry a passenger. Thanks for attempting to be snarky and condescending without knowing the whole story. I wasn't being smug; I was merely relating my experience with electric vehicles, seeing as there probably aren't a lot of EV owners on Engadget. If that offends you somehow, then you can bite me. I didn't ask for your approval and I didn't judge your way of life.
There ARE electric cars that are around $10k but they aren't available in the U.S. market. Electric vehicles are fairly popular in Asia, and companies like ZAP! are in the process of attempting to get these smaller commuter cars into the United States for an affordable price. The ZAP! Xebra MSRP is $11,200 and there are others in the Asian market that come in under the $10k mark. So YOUR grasp of economics is the one that's weak. You say "if it were possible it would be on the market" --- Well, it is. That's why I find Tesla's pricing to be so abhorrent and unwarranted. They're milking American investors and consumers on the "hot new" technology, when the ability to do it in a cost-effective way has been around for quite a long time, now. I sincerely doubt that they'll drop their price if they can keep selling at a premium.
Again, your economics are weak: Making more doesn't mean they'll eventually be less expensive. If that were the case, SUVs would be about $8,000 right now, considering how many of them they crank out a year. They set the precedent with the first batch of cars, and they'll stick to it if they can continue to profit wildly from it.
Yes, $50k is too much for a modern car. My Chevy cost $12k new. Granted, I don't go in for luxury junk like heated seats and voice-activated stereos, but my car has been reliable and gets me where I'm going. I would never, EVER spend $50k on a car, even if I were rich. That's just throwing money into a status symbol. The only sedan, coupe or hatchbacks on the market right now that come close to $50k are luxury vehicles and sports cars. The only car in Chevy's 2008 lineup that costs near $50,000 is the Corvette. Please, tell me which non-luxury, non-sports sedan, coupe, or hatchback costs $50,000 if you can. I doubt you'll find one.
Waiting until 2030 isn't necessary. If I wanted to pay the import fees, and deal with the hassle of getting my state government to allow it on the road, I could get a 10k electric car from overseas. However, the process of getting a car from overseas is costly, and there's no guarantee I would be allowed to drive it on American roads. All I'm saying is that the proof of concept has already been out there, and that a company trying to build electric cars for the American market needs to be competitive and introduce their vehicle at a *reasonable* price. $50,000 for a Tesla sedan is ridiculous. $30,000 for the same sedan is at least in competition with other American vehicles.
@realscience:
The actual power source for an electric car can vary. The electric vehicle's motor is what matters. You don't have to produce that electricity with fossil fuels. You can produce the electricity with hydro-power, wind power, solar power, nuclear, hydrogen, or a bunch of convicts running in a treadmill. Whatever "great new technology" you're talking about in oh-so-vague terms is likely no more than another way to generate energy, and thus can generate electricity (which is what we use to power just about everything in our society). If it generates electricity, then it can be used to power electric vehicles.
Unless you're talking about the air-powered car, which is pretty cool. I doubt we'll see that one mass-marketed because there's just no profit in it for some secondary suppliers. We could make a few different kinds of cars that don't require buying fuel from some company, but these wonderful fantasy vehicles never get past concept cars, because the oil companies, electric companies, and other car companies squash them.
The only road-worthy vehicles that will ever be mass-produced in America are vehicles that have a secondary fuel requirement-- You'll have to pay someone to keep your vehicle moving on the road, somewhere along the line. The big corporations won't LET it be any other way.
You assume that in my area, our electric companies burn coal. I used to live near a nuclear power plant at one point, and a hydroelectric plant at another. The way they generate the electricity for my EV changes, but the vehicle itself doesn't need a different motor to take advantage of the end product.