Sony exec sees Eee-like PCs as having potentially negative impact on industry
By Ryan Block 
posted Feb 27th 2008 4:19PM
posted Feb 27th 2008 4:19PM
So at Sony's Open House we were having lunch with Mike Abary, Sony's US SVP of Information Technology Products Division, who oversees Vaio computers (among numerous other things). Of course, the inevitable question came up about the Eee PC's success thus far, and what that means to computer companies on the higher end of the spectrum, like Sony. Mike's response was a little surprising, but certainly sensible enough: if consumer expectations begins to weigh too heavily toward the $300 end of PCs, he believes that kind of consumer adoption would have a profoundly negative impact on the industry, referring to its effect as "a race to the bottom."We know there are a lot of Eee fans in the house, but the man makes sense. Sony isn't trashing ultra-cheap machines so much as recognizing that it's hard to push things forward when your primary objective becomes making the very cheapest possible machine you can (and not very best). Innovation is hard enough to subsidize, but when your already thin margins flatten even further in trying to sell ultra-cheap machines, it's easy to see the economics working against tech companies. (Asus has less to worry about here because its primary business is making PCs for other companies.) Of course, the reality is that ultra-cheap machines probably won't soon envelop the lion's share of computer sales and threaten what most think of as "real" PCs, so we probably don't have to worry about the industry bottoming out because of the Eee. False advertising and abusive trialware, however, are different stories entirely.
SO lets get a ultra portable with better specs and cheap from Sony.
Its now a race for smaller and better and cheaper
Ryan once again writes a communist manifesto.
Sony is whining, plain and simple. It's called competition. What good is innovation if no one can afford it.
you need to get out more if you the first thing you think of is cosine when someone says cos. thats like ... defensive
what gives, have i offended you?
Negative on sony cos they didnt make it ......
Speaking of negative, Mr. Abary has quite the defensive posture to match his fake smile there. Coincidence?
exactly
You drop the name plate off your viao and knock down a couple of hundreds, i will go buy it tomorrow.
Regarding "defensive posture": I hate it when people try to read body language like that. Mostly because I have a standoffish look all the time myself. People always ask me really odd confusing questions out of the blue like "what's wrong?" or "what gives, have I offended you?" and so on. No, I'm quite happy and I'm not upset or annoyed nor am I trying to express any negative feelings, I just like to hold my arms crossed. Is that a crime or something?
PS stop using "cos" because I always read it as cosine.
Lars, denial's not just a river in Egypt ;p
but hey... research is research
Kia makes cheap cars. Bentley doesn't. The people who are buying each know what they're getting. When I bought my Eee, I knew it was a "toy" and not a serious work machine... that's what my good Lenovo laptop is for... one with a usable keyboard and screen resolution bigger than a postage stamp. I don't think it's going to have much impact.
Yeah! It's the age-old concept of "you get what you pay for!"
If you pay for a cheap price, then it's really cheap!
If you pay for a Lamborghini, that's what you get!
Exactly. Take the excellent Thinkpad out for when you need it's power and the Eee-PC out for when you need only basic functionality. They make a great adjunct to a full laptop for some. This is GROWING the industry, not hindering it.
Totally agree. Cheap Eee PC like laptops will expand the market. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.
ST*U Sony. Not all peeps can afford expensive laptops.
There will always be a place for expensive, performance oriented hardware. That doesn't mean people should have to buy systems that are overly powerful for their needs. He says cheaper, slower and smaller like it is a bad thing. It's not, it's just different.
Despite you being ranked highly, I think I'm going to have to disagree with how you took him up. He means bad for quality and innovation, you seem to think he means bad for that certain consumer segment who buys the E or portables like it, I don't think he does. What he's saying is how can thinks innovate and push forward, and not just on the power front if all that tech companies are thinking about is how to undercut each other.
Since when is miniaturisation not innovative?
The Asus Eee, while it doesn't work for me, is an incredible feat: it's small _and_ cheap. With the Eee, not only is Asus making ultra portable PCs available to the masses; it's also raking in cash it can use to innovate elsewhere.
It's just convenient for Sony to bash Asus for a thing they can't do, or haven't done yet.
Bravo Asus, boo Sony.
Actually Brendan, it's just as likely that introducing Eee's and the like will open up a new market segment. It doesn't have to mean innovators won't be able to innovate. giuliop's got it right.
@Brendan Sheehan
you mean to say SONY is whining because people will overlook their line of small laptops and go straight for the EEE PC?
Maybe it's because SONY wants to trap you in their thought process, because when you slide the Bluetooth switch over, you also have to enable Bluetooth from your system tray, which magically has WiFi enabled by default.
Quit whining, make laptops that are technologically appealing as they are aesthetically, and people will buy, Apple doesn't seem to have a problem.
From the looks of it, ASUS doesn't seem to have a problem either, they pretty much own the spotlight with the EEE, which is now giving them the ability to show off their other portables.
Proof positive that, although saturation marketing works, word of mouth is still king.
the real question is what do people DO with that really expensive hardware? Is it worth the price. My wife was just looking at notebooks and to get desktop level (what I could build for $500) graphic performance was a $200 premium from these guys for just 1 chip extra, even worse for Apple with the damn Macbook Pros... they've already split the market into "low end" and "high" end... EeePC just lowers the low end more, because games are about the only thing you'd need 3d for and they want you to pay extra for that, if you can't play 3D computer games, what's the point in anything but the cheapest? Sony, Apple.... waiting... for innovation.
I tend to agree with the first responder. People won't look at this and say, 'well, I bought a low end pc, it won't run everything.' They'll say, 'I got a NEW pc, you need to make your software work on my stuff, come on, this stuff was top of the line 7 years ago!'
I wouldn't necessarily call Sony Viao's margins "razor thin."
Some might say the race to the bottom has been going on for some time, but the relative success of Apple's products as of late shows that not everyone is interested in that race.
The Eee is a toy, but it's cheap and has lots of hack potential. And when it breaks you can just go down to WalMart and buy another one...
apples rise could just as well be a case of ipod halo...
as in, you have a product "everyone" wants for whatever reason (fashion as much as anything imo), and then one use that to bring other products of yours to their attention.
it works for that "lovable" kitty cat that has her face on just about everything, no?
hell, i could have sworn that some companies that started out selling sports wear now can sell just about anything at a premium just because they slap their logo on it.
or how about a pair of jeans that spike in price because the right brand is on the back label?
This is what's happening in nearly every industry in America. People want cheaper furniture--so they buy pieces of crap and then say stupid things like "things aren't made to last nowadays." No, you're stupid--30 years ago the quality furniture people bought was just as good as what's out now IF THAT, but back then they simply had no other options.
Today people like options, including options to buy things cheap. This does promote a race to the bottom--but only to a degree. There will always be a demand for quality. It's those who are on the medium-high end of the spectrum that will suffer.
Actually, there was plenty of cheap POS furniture 30 years ago. People tend to think "all furniture was better back then" because only the good stuff tends to last.
so sony...u just won the format war and now ur talking about razor thin magins? TSFU
SONY is claiming someone is having a negative impact on the market? SONY? Really?!
This from the dumbfucks who brought us nothing but over-priced proprietary shit (why use Memory Pro sticks and not just switch the the standard SD? come on now) and bundles their CDs with rootkits and Blu-ray with BD+, the world's worst DRM. Seriously Sony, go blow yourself.
Let's not forget, their stupid Vaio trash PCs, that always stop working (except for their top ends models that cost $2000+), and have some of the worst service and warranty quality in the industry.
In other words: "OMG if people are going to be happy with $300 PCs how can we charge $2000 for them anymore?"
I know this is an exaggeration, but the market is the market. If someone is happy with their $300 PC and it does everything they need it to do who am I to quibble with that? It does their e-mail and websurfing which is what a lot of people need. If people want more they will buy more.
If anything what negative Nancy isn't thinking is that many people will start with an Eee-PC and more up towards a full laptop when their needs grow. It will expose a lot of people who don't have a laptop on the benefits of having a full laptop by giving them a taste. I would start my kids on an Eee-PC and then they can grow into a laptop.
This guy is holding the industry back with his loose talk.
People faced a similar choice years ago, and overwhelmingly chose the more expensive option. Years ago there was a distinction between "home computers" (like Commodore) that cost $300~$600 verses "business computers" (IBM PC-compatibles) that cost $2000~$3000. Like the EEE PC, "home computers" were capable of everything the average person needed (e.g. they had word processing software, spreadsheets, etc.), but people wanted to run the same software and hardware at home as they did at work, so they bought the larger, more expensive computers. I predict the same will happen again, people will skip the capable low-cost option in favor of the expensive Windows PC that they are familiar with.
I agree. Throwing the economics about innovation at this is completely ignorant of economics. The same exact argument can be made that these expensive laptops have been stifling innovations in cost reduction.
If people want cheap, companies will innovate for cheap. If people want fast and sleek, companies will innovate for fast a sleek. Economics shows us that demand will drive innovation, and we have a healthy demand for both types of portables.
Sony can jump into cheap, or they can stay with the lineup they have. That's their decision to make. But, they should remember that some cost-reducing innovation will eventually find itself in the high-end as well and throwing R&D into both pools will allow them to stay ahead.
engadget; guess you deleted the first post on this: "Eee PC strikes fear in the heart of Sony?"
Anyway, my comment there was: Feb 27th 2008 3:06PM: "Race to the bottom" of my bung hole maybe.
It wasn't to my liking -- and I was there, so I decided to rewrite it.
Negative for the industry as a whole....or just negative for sony? Sony isn't there to look out for the industry...it's only looking out for themselves.
asus (and soon HP) is providing something in the market that others aren't fulfilling.
It has never been all about price, and it never will be. Look at overpriced hot sellers like iPods! :) (Flame away Apple fan boys)
Well, two responses. First, for those of us who want a really small and light weight machine and don't need multi-megapixel machines to carry around, the form factor is a huge improvement that Sony and others have ignored at their competitive disadvantage ... Apple made the same mistake with the Air ... it's too big for my mobile life-style machine. Second, Sony may resent the "race to the bottom" but that's the nature of this market segment. Let 'em complain but they're ceding a nice (growing) chunk of the market to the "bottom feeders".
That's just MBA-speak for: "Asus beat us to a market segment we totally missed."
More options are never a bad thing for the overall market/industry. Expensive laptops will always be made. The market just becomes more efficient for low-end consumers, cheaper computers means people get more utility for their dollar on the low end of the market; they don't have to buy a $800 laptop if they can satisfy their needs with a $400 one.
It also opens up another market for innovative/ballsy companies like ASUS to step ahead of giant elephants like Sony.
He's right. Eee-like PCs are a niche market; they aren't for everyone. However, I know there are people out there who see an inexpensive laptop and think "why aren't ALL laptops this cheap?" With that, the demand for a cheaper PC market increases, which leads to computer makers shifting their focus to what's being demanded.
Unfair pricing aside (*cough* Best Buy *cough*), I'd much rather pay the price of a solid computer that will last me a few years than a small "fee" for a computer that's soon to be outdated (or already is).
That said, there's nothing wrong with the Eee PC, it fits SOME consumers' needs.
Yeah, so you get want you want and the Eee-PC owners get what they want. How is this holding the industry back? People who buy the Eee-PC can buy from a place with a 30 day return policy and see if they like it.
Who is this guy to tell me or anyone else what I want.
Agreed, the Eee is certainly not for everyone. I personally couldn't use it as my main machine, while other people could without any problem......and that's the beauty of it.
For me it's an ultra portable machine I can take with me at little cost to what I'm already carrying. For other people, it could be used as their main machine if they only need something for Email and Web Browsing. For my Mom, she uses it as a day planner with Outlook and full version of Word/Excel (not the crap "Pocket" versions).
@ sir
I never said the Eee PC was holding the industry back. What I'm saying is that its low price tag could generate unrealistic cost demands by the average or below-average consumer.
Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't understand the components of a product's pricing. Cost of parts, manufacturing, labor, shipping, a little markup for profit, etc. Most people say "build me a computer and make it cheap." I'm saying that that's not possible all the time. It's really only possible in cases like the Eee PC, which is a good computer for a small part of the market.
I think people already have unreasonable cost demands, but if they want quality they'll have pull out their wallets. The existence of a $300 isn't going to make me ask for cheaper Thinkpads, since I get what I pay for and more. The average person will expect more for less, but they'll learn their lesson when they get what they pay for. In that sense I see what you mean. I have friends who bought cheap Compaqs, Toshibas and Vaios when I bought my X31. My x31 still works like the day I bought it, all of theirs no longer work. Guess what they bought to replace their machines.
@ sr
seems like we're on the same page then. very nice.
@Alex Padilla
The only thing that makes $300 an unreasonable price for a laptop is Windows Vista.
As for "the components of a product's pricing"... A nice ARM CPU, such as Texas Instrument's "DeVinci" which includes an MPEG-4 decoder and 3D graphics accelerator, costs under $10! And that $10 CPU is more powerful than most Sun and SGI workstations that were used for scientific, engineering, and computer graphics applications a decade ago. That $10 CPU should be plenty powerful enough to check your email, except that due to software bloat, WE NOW NEED MORE PROCESSING POWER TO CHECK EMAIL THAN THE PIXAR USED TO CREATE TOY STORY!
They felt the same way about the iPod I'm sure, and look at them now. Making accessories for the iPod. This from the company that invented the Walkman. How sad.
"Of course, the reality is that ultra-cheap machines probably won't soon envelop the lion's share of computer sales and threaten what most think of as "real" PCs, so we probably don't have to worry about the industry bottoming out because of the Eee."
The reality is Sony and others are shaking in their boots because they know they haven't got a chance in hell of competing with the Eee.
My Eee is certainly a "Real" PC. It may not have the same high specs as my Laptop or Desktop machine, however that doesn't make it any less REAL.
My first computer was a Tandy 386SX25 which had a 25mhz processor, 1MB of RAM, an 85MB hard drive, and 512kb of Video Memory. Seems my Eee is far more powerful that my Tandy......yet it's not considered a Real PC? With BS spouted off by idiots like this, it's no wonder people get fooled into believing they need a $2k machine.
Hey Mikey, the way you guard against this is to create INNOVATIVE products that well, people want. You know, the ones that people will actually buy. So come one now, you aint new, you know how it’s done (someone from cooperate JC needs to school Mikey). All cars don’t cost 50k!
To Ryan Block:
Guys, you had a great opportunity and how come you did not interview Mike Abary like you do other execs and post your interviews here? It'd be nice if you were to do that and see where VAIO brand is heading and what's new and exciting to expect....
Do you really think it costs Sony that much more to make a Sony TZ Series notebook that starts at $2200 than a FZ Series that starts at $900 other than a carbon fiber package?
uh yeah, for some reason research for miniaturizing stuff takes money, completely the other way with French fries, who would've known?
Sony Vaios have always been high quality products. It's just that a year ago they started selling new 15" Vaios that suck. The return rate is same as DELL (worse than ACER), same as ASUS. So before saying anything about any impacts, they should consider changing their own products. And by the way, their current middle end vaios aren't even sexy.
Ehhh... The man has a point. We've seen this with the Wal Mart effect. Instead of buying the $500 lawnmower that will last you for the rest of your life, people are buying the $100 pieces of crap that will break after a season. Nobody said consumers were far-sighted or rational.
Maybe cheapo laptops will lead to a similar effect - dumb consumers buying ever cheaper (and thus crappier) machines, and then blaming the technology instead of their own stinginess.
But in any case, brands like Lenovo, Sony, and Apple will remain for the niche market of people who are willing to pay for quality.
Consumers are farsighted and rational. There.
Uh, wasn't this here about half an hour before and you deleted it and now posted it again with a new photo and the harsh words removed?...
Mh, nevermind...
I'm all for cheaper computers, BTW... and Sony isn't good at it, not at all... I'm using a $550 computer right now, and the Sony equivalent of it was about $900... you don't have to go to the "ultra-mobile" category to notice how incredibly much is Sony overpricing their VAIOs
Sony said the same thing about the Wii.
I kid, I kid...
And then came the Zelda hack. I might actually consider buying one now.
...once they get to a real LiveCD.
The only reason the EEE PC isn't powerful enough is because software and operating systems are more and more bloated (I'm looking at you, Vista). The EEE PC is far more powerful than Windows PCs were a decade ago, and yet, those Windows PCs were capable of doing almost everything that moderns computers do... web-browsing, email, music, word-processing, spreadsheets. That level of computer power would still be plenty as long as you don't burden it under a bloated OS!
I'm a believer that we don't need more powerful computers, we need more efficient software! Every time CPUs take a step forward, software and operating systems eat it up while passing little benefit to the end user. Windows XP takes longer to boot now than my old Windows 98 PC. Where's the progress in that?
Don't even get me started (nice avatar BTW). I have a decent dual core 1.6GHz machine running Vista (big mistake I know, I know), and it sometimes even delays the appearance of text on the screen after I've typed it. Can you imagine waiting a few seconds to see the text you just typed? I had 286 machines in the early 90s that wouldn't do that under DOS. Even my 9 year old 400MHz PII doesn't do that under Win98.
I really tried to give Vista a fair shot, I mean I put it on my primary laptop (like an idiot). It sometimes doesn't respond to my command to increase or reduce brightness of the screen (absolutely does not happen in XP) for a few seconds. It sometimes comes back from sleep with a black screen that only a reboot can fix. It takes 10 seconds to give me confirmation that it is beginning to hibernate after clicking on hibernate. I mean this is just trash software, that is bogging down our excellent modern hardware. It's pretty sad, but we have very little choice if we are to keep up with mainstream applications.
Amen.
That's what I said on the other post they now deleted..
I still have a 1.7GHz celeron (single-core and crappy performance) with 256MB RAM and I still use it for some pro audio editing and production... I use old versions of the software... so what? I can do a job of the same quality as the uber-pro studios with super-powerful servers and $5,000 a piece non-pirate software...
Heck, Riccardo Ricci used a 800MHz Pentium III with 128MB back in 2001, and he made the best electronic music ever... much better than all those people with $4k+ audio rigs, and yes, he did it in surround...
Like I had said, expensive computers are for gamers and video production people ONLY... anyone else, either needs a super-computer (crazy scientist) or just a cheap, power-saving $400...
PS. And don't come up with things like "eye-candy"... that's an out-of-the-box thing for n00bs, but you can, in fact, make Windows XP have the same eye-candy as Windows Vista and still have it boot in 20 seconds where Vista boots in two minutes... And let's not even talk about Linux, wich can run a full Beryl setup on a computer wich even Vista Basic will refuse to run on
One more thing M$ knows exactly what they are doing. They know that the bulk of their revenue comes from OEM sales, and they want nothing more than people needing to upgrade their hardware to run their crap. They have a symbiotic relationship with hardware makers that is disgusting. I'll bet they even slow down older OSes through service packs just to make people want newer computers. Sure this sounds all conspiracy theory out here, but can you explain why after a fresh install your computer runs so well, and it starts running like shit 3 months later (from experience Vista does the same thing)? Don't tell me registry this and registry that. Do you really believe that after decades of making OSes, they couldn't figure out how more efficiently manage the registry? There are so many optimizations they could implement in software that they choose not to do (well they do, but they trickle it down). What about Turbo Cache - great idea, but why the fuck doesn't it work? With all of Vista's exalted Superfetch and all that jazz, why don't I see an actual improvement in application start. What about bootup times? M$ has built over a 12 dozen different OSes and variants over almost 3 decades and you're telling me that Vista needs 30 seconds to boot up? That too, after paring down all my startup programs, disabling all unneeded services and running Perfect Disk defrag with boot time optimization? The OS scene is plain bullshit right now.
have seen that first hand. i dual boot winxp and linux+kde on the same computer.
just starting up winxp sends the hardrive into what can best be described as a epileptic fit. and if i check the system resources, its deep in swap.
fire up linux and i hardly notice the drive doing anything, and swap? only time i have seen it touch it is when i uncompress a big archive file or similar...
Last time I check most people are utilizing only a fraction of the power of their computers. If all you need to do is check email and browse the internet, who is to say that all you need is to invest $300-$500 on a machine. In that respect the race to the bottom is a race to match value to needs, rather then trying to give usersa machine with a huge gap between actual usage and proposed capabilities.
Eee PC is a piece of crap.
Wait, wait.... let me guess.... Xbox fanboy?
/sarcasm
People might take you more seriously if you explained WHY the EEE PC is a piece of crap.
The thing is, all this technology becomes a commodity. At one point, all computers were expensive. Then, the more people started making PC parts, the cheaper they got. We've reached a point that lots of previously disparate elements are now created on a single chip. Things like video, audio, networking, wireless, are all put directly into a single chip that costs no more to produce than any other chip.
Sony is more than likely upset since their entire business model is based around selling HIGH PRICE products, and making things more expensive (Cell, Bluray). When it comes to competition in the manufacturing space, they can't play the 'cheap' game.
Sony's strong point is not price. They know this. Any attack on Sony in the price department could hit them for massive damage.
I honestly don't think Sony knows that their marketing department has a credibility problem with a large segment of enthusiasts.
If you live life reading the blogs, forums, and comments it's so obvious.
It's really hard to believe they just don't care - even if they didn't care it'd be better for business to pretend.
Actually, their PS3 marketing department knows very well to avoid certain enthusiast segments. I've seen on several occasions where they've had the opportunity to set the record straight with video game audiences. Instead, they always come back with some smarmy response about how gamers don't represent their target audience. This totally baffled me for a long time, until I realized what is going on...
Sony wants to market to sheep. They want to market to people who don't know any better, not the informed customer. If it takes energy to convert someone into a customer, forget it. If it takes quality, forget it. They want to be able to put things in the stores, buy big spreads in the weekly Best Buy adverts and have stuff sell based on style.
The Sony of today is very different than the Sony of 10 years ago.
@JayVe. Sounds like Apple as well.
The thing is that we LET them do this, no? If we didn't purchase their products then they'd have to put some effort into them. We're as much to blame as said companies. It's like you slap a kia rio engine into a mercedes benz chassis and people gobble it up because it's a mercedez benz. Similar is the HD DVD debacle, I truly believe that HD DVD is/was the better technology, only because it was cheaper and did more initially, but Sony knows how to market things and how to play people as well as other companies so they market the hell out of Blu-Ray and now it's 'won' the so-called war.
People prefer sexy and sleek vs. value and companies will always choose to market to those people first if they can. I don't personally think that a Vaio is 'better' than a Dell or HP, but they sell at a premium for similar configs, JUST because they're Sony branded. I mean, you match a Vaio PC and a Dell price for price and you'll see that you're getting less function/power for the Vaio than the Dell in every case.
In essence, I think he's really just mad that the EEE PC is creeping into the UMPC market or some other niche area that Sony is trying to pick into. People are buying these cheapies because they do what people want them to do and no more and sony won't ever be able to match a $300 or 400 pricepoint because their 'sony' sourced parts are at least twice as much.
Neoprimal:
I'd agree with you for the most part, except most consumers simply don't know better. Sony won the HD disc format without the vast majority of consumers even aware that a battle was going on. They did it by controlling the source, the studios.
Sony takes two approaches:
1) Control the market from the top, and simply don't give people a choice. This explains their love for movie and music studios. If they control the source, they can control the format all the way down the chain to the consumption of media in the consumer's home.
2) Slander and squish anything you can't control. They did this with numerous smaller companies by litigating them to death. The bully tactic also works for places that 'review' Sony materials too. Movie and game sites that have to deal directly with Sony have to tread carefully or their 'privileges' will be pulled.
@Jayve True. There used to be a time when Sony did market to the educated consumer. These are the guys that made the Trinitron CRT, the SCD-1, the DVP-S7000 among some other astonishingly good products. They no longer make any flagship level audio products. They have been making crap for the last decade and a half. If you had $200 in your pocket to buy a good DVD player, Panasonic is always a better bet. I'm not saying that Panasonic is the be all and end all of electronics, but their products at least have some conscientiousness about them. You will get a better made product at any price point from someone other than Sony. Hence why I don't buy Sony products unless anymore. I do own some great Sony products from a time long past.
@JayVe:
Your post seems very poignant, but I disagree on many points.
You stated "...they've had the opportunity to set the record straight with video game audiences..." and so on.
Honestly, Sony hasn't fallen out of favor with me, if anything they've gained favor... A LOT of favor. To me, the PS3 is a huge leap ahead for consumers. Inexpensive, high quality, packed with features, and adopting many standards. I'm a gamer, I play games constantly, at least 20 hours a week. But consoles always seemed pretty so limited to me. A computer does so much more plus games, why spend hundreds more on an extra machine that does nothing BUT play games? PS2 was starting to take a step forward in this respect with some IEEE standards integrated, Linux, CD/DVD playback, etc. So, maybe you're right, maybe console-only gamers are not their target market. I'm a PC gamer and I've been converted because of the PS3.
"Sony wants to market to sheep. They want to market to people who don't know any better, not the informed customer."
That's the dumbest statement I've ever heard. The Wii is filling that demand for consoles, and Apple is filling that demand for PC's. In my experience, no non-gamers buy the PS3 that haven't actually done a lot of research.
"They want to be able to... have stuff sell based on style."
Nobody buys the PS3 because they want a big black monolith in their house. This statement makes me think you're just anti-Sony and lashing out for no good reason. Having a PS3 gains you no social status, in fact quite the opposite. However, when people see the Wii in your house it definitely turns some heads. I didn't mean to turn this into Wii vs PS3, I'm just trying to point out how you are so very wrong.
"The Sony of today is very different than the Sony of 10 years ago."
There's some truth to that. Using open standards and taking such big risks is not something I ever expected Sony to do. Heck, doing anything to benefit the consumer is a rare thing for any big corporation.
I could just see things from a different perspective though, being a software engineer.
@JayVe:
Wow, your second post makes me think you wear a tin foil hat. Controlling the source? Replace Sony with Microsoft and you've got some very true statements. I keep thinking Microsoft will be forced to change someday or feel the wrath of angry consumers, but for some reason it just doesn't happen. They do some really shitty things and even lie about what their products can do, but it pays off because businesses make purchases based solely on marketing, and lawsuits (which are usually successful vs Microsoft) are acceptable collateral damage.
The only division of Sony I have a beef with is their marketing. But pretty much all marketing departments are full of fail.
Lars,
I'm going to contradict myself somewhat on the Apple argument in defense of some of these users. I do somewhat believe that Apple users are 'sheep' but only in respect to the fact that they're purchasing these computers based on looks moreso vs. function or price. But I do understand the attraction to these products. They're plain easy to use. Everything has been dumbed down to icons, dragging, dropping and 1 clicks and I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't admit that these are the same reasons I love my PC running Vista. My hangup is pricepoint vs. value. I can't buy a $3000 machine over a $1500 machine because the $3000 machine is marketed as being 'cooler' or because it 'looks' good, even though it's 1/3 as powerful as the $1500 machine, but that's just me. To call them 'non-informed' because this is their preference is the part I don't agree with. Now granted there are SOME that purchase just because it's Apple, but that's pretty much the same for Windows PCs, no? How many people purchased Vista Capable, Designed for XP machines and then complained that the PCs don't run Vista Premium/Ultimate well? These are uninformed customers....informed customers would have purchased Certified for Vista machines if they knew they'd want to upgrade seamlessly to Vista.
The Wii is an extremely fun console! Have you played Wii games? To say that this is marketed to sheep, I couldn't disagree more. If anything was marketed to sheep it's the PS3. It's a blu ray player, it's a gaming console! Woohoo! I know several people who love their PS3, people who love their sports and shoot em' ups generally and I know several that are completely 'over' it already, generally people who just want to have fun playing games. Everyone I know that owns the Wii is still enjoying it, immensely...because of the broad range, everything from sports to shoot em ups, to fun to silly to party games, etc. The PS3's titles though many have been almost monolithic in theme...like ps2 titles with new graphics.
While people may not have gotten the PS3 for style or looks, they most certainly did to say they own one. Sure, not necessarily social status changing, but it still says something. I've seen the phrase "oh I got my PS3 when it was just released" so many times....which to me translates to, I paid $600 for my PS3 and was one of the first to get it. What do you call that? Granted the PS3 may offer more value since it DOES play Blu Ray in addition to games, but most people out there buy a console for gaming and to have fun, and I think the Wii attracts those people. Nothing like 2 people flipping out with a wireless remote looking thing to get a room full of people laughing to tears and having a good time. And guess what? ANYONE can play. There's no X, O, R, L etc. to get caught up with for many of these games, just move your wiimote. I for one want a Wii, and I consider myself fully informed of the adv. and dis. of each console.
Sony isn't becoming more 'open' out of the goodness of it's heart. It's doing so because if it doesn't it will knock itself down quite a few tiers in customers eyes. The good thing about the market currently is that it's been driven by consumers, thus my initial statements about where the blame should be put. If Walkmans only played Sony's proprietary crap and their music studios didn't calm down their drm then guess what? They'd have very little in the way of customer interest. That's why as customers we need to empower ourselves moreso than we do/are currently and drive the market more skillfully. I'm sure Vaios would fall in price if noone purchased them. I'm sure PS3s would cater to more people if Sony wasn't satisfied with it's adoption currently. Doing things for customers NOWADAYS is a rare thing for customers, back a few years they had to do it to survive.
bullshit...
people will pay for high end systems or the aperiance of one (look at apple notebooks)there is alway a market for newr faster.
remember where this is coming from, sony who charges 200-300 more just for the brand name "sony" someone should sit them down and tell them that there name does not carry the cloute it use to in the 90's
Ryan,
Speaking of UMPC's, where is the follow up to the Foleo hands on review?
"it's hard to push things forward when your primary objective becomes making the very cheapest possible machine you can"
The same reason they trash the wii and calling it a "backstep in the industry"
They seem to think their target market is the only market, the arrogance makes me puke.
The rewrite has nothing to add but excuses for yet another rediculus arrogant comment from SONY.
Pretty much every comment above is the same as my opinion. Sony's got great computers, but are they affordable to everybody? No. People are STILL gonna buy high-end computers. I'm sure a lot of them are gonna buy a lower-end computer on the side or a lot of people who can't afford a more higher-end computer will settle for something that's more in their budget that takes care of their needs. The Eee is a GREAT secondary computer or one for the masses.
... are you kidding me? You completely fell for his garbage excuse; the added competion of sub-laptops encourages manufacturers to make full-fledged laptops that are affordable and light weight. There are a billion ways to look at it, but ultimately the added competition by the Eee PC is good for the consumer, and its not hurting the industry because the Eee PC is not competing with powerful high-end laptops - its competing with bargain ($500) mid-sized laptops.
engadget is starting to fall off...
Sony is full of fail for slamming an affordable product in an attempt to beat the scare tactic drum.
Sony Fail
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/hockeyrink.jpg
640x454 resolution FTW
phanbouy:
I hope you aren't talking about the EeePC, cause it has a resolution of 800x480, the same resolution as many other ultraportables including the quite amazing OQO. I've got an OQO and even design web sites for people on the super-portable 800x480 screen without any problems.
no your FAIL pic dude. cmon now =)
Ahaha!I get it.
Check out more fun Fail pictures at the Fail Blog
http://failblog.wordpress.com/
The problem is most main stream applications do not require a modern computer. The only main stream application that really pushed thing are games and consoles are pushing more and more into the PC space.
In a way we are headed back to the way things were 15 years ago. Top end workstation class machines will cost a whole hell of a lot more that a every day home PC. I remember my work paying 60K per engineer for a Sun workstation 12 years or so ago. Now we use 1K laptops and server rooms full of cheap 8-way linux servers....
The only thing wrong with the Eee is the small screen.
It browses the net, it lets you write letters, it plays a few simple Solitaire type games.
For many people, that's all they want and need.
Yeah, who could possibly want affordable, ultra small PC's? Why would we want everyone to have a subnotebook that they could carry everywhere?
The problem here is that across the board, everything Sony makes is downright expensive. Is their stuff typically very high quality? Of course. Is it within everyone's price range? Of course not.
What he fails to understand is that the emerging subnotebook niche is not necessarily a replacement to full sized notebooks, but instead perhaps a supplement.
In economics, time and time again, a pattern is always seen: companies either adapt to the market and flourish or become so obsessed with their own agenda that they forget the consumer.
-Volsfan91
Agreed. Sony has, on more than one occasion, ended up making buggy whips.
Instead of whining and bitching, I'd like to see what Sony can come up with for a $300 machine.
Sony and quality? Hah! Only their highest end lines are quality products, other than Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp and others beat them thoroughly at every price point.
I don't really see this as a bad thing. How many computer owners genuinely NEED high end hardware for their personal computer uses? Very few, and those that do are mostly gamers. A lot of business users might, also, but their companies pay for those machines (and less than a home user would) so it's not really relevant. It doesn't take a whole lot of horsepower to run a web browser and word processor. The problem is that operating systems are becoming bigger and more bloated (yes, prebuilt Linux distros, too), which leads people to think that their machine isn't fast enough.
Hmmm, I can buy a EeePC for 3~$400 US that can be upgraded, no DRM, has a camera, or I could buy a Sony Mylo2 for $300 which is locked down by Sony and pretty much 'un-hackable'. I have an original Mylo which I like but got for $60 (about what its really worth) but I wish it was more 'open', and now is essentially a 'dead' product since the Mylo2 intro. I wonder why Sony doesn't like the low end pc market?
That's exactly the point, they kept the UX price sky-high and made up an almost useless Mylo device which has a single selling point: Skype!!! That is for sure a negative impact on the telecoms.
They totally missed the point. The UX is far more powerful than the EeePC, far more expensive, far from complying to most consumers' budgets (including mine).
The EeePC doesn't do all I need, I think it will never do, I'll always need a "real" computer at home and another at work, but it does just what I need when I'm on the run for a price I can afford.
If Sony had at least tried that on the Mylo... Maybe Mylo-3 can bring some of the mobile function and usability Sony has learned from the UX legacy... nahh, Sony is too shortsighted for that.
Thanks, Asus.
Lamest post in months. The price / features battle isn't new, and it isn't bad. If Sony doesn't want to play they don't have to, but that's the game and it always has been.
Ridiculous! Why does Sony get to say what the minimum price of a laptop should be for everyone?
What a load of bull.
Sony: Please buy our overpriced subnotebooks? :(
They're completely different markets. Get over it, Sony, you'll have to play the game to get somewhere on this front.
A "race to the bottom"? What kind of term is that?
The kind used in Game Theory. It's an economics term.
One thing that is hard to factor into this business model is the cost of support. Realistically, lower price points means a potential for more customers, which would require either more support resources (driving up the cost) or no support. Many users attracted to simple systems with low requirements will have absolutely no idea how to maintain and support their own systems, unlike the people here. Then what? They get thrown away every three months? If it costs as much to have someone fix your machine as it does to buy it, then this does create some huge issues with waste management. I'd like to see how these companies plan to recycle these short-life systems...
Who gives a shit?
1st Strike: Sony sour grapes
2nd Strike: Consumers, not Sony, will dictate the market
3rd Strike: Shame on Engadget for supporting Sony propoganda
You're out Engadget, I have read your blog for the last two years and I will cease, effective immediately.