Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers

We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.

[Via BoingBoing]

[bebop @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:00PM]

Exactly. Coat hangers probably sound pretty good. Short length, solid core, rigid, no insulation, large cross section... coat hangers as speaker cable tick all the right boxes. Not very practical however.

[letstakeawalk @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:10PM]

I consider myself an audiophile - I spend too much time adjusting my vintage gear and even I noticed this. Coat hangers certainly qualify as solid core, and with soldered connects they SHOULD make excellent interconnects. I'm no proponent of spending $$$$ on cables, and currently there might be a splice or to that aren't Lineman quality, but I'm not surprised by the results of this test.

I would NEVER consider using uninsulated interconnects - I care about my cats way too much.

This is an infair comparison.

[Jorvay @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:15PM]

Actually, being solid has nothing to do with it. Electrical charge travels along the outer surface of a wire. That's why braided or wrapped wires work so well: more outer surface area. Big, hollow tubes of wire would theoretically make more efficient conductors relative to the amount of conductive material used, but would be far too delicate and wouldn't bend very well at all (think of what happens when you bend your drink straw around a corner...).

[Eliot @ Mar 4th 2008 11:29AM]

I agree that solid has little to do (directly) with sound transmission. However, stranded wire, while they have greater surface area, are also more likely to fray. frayed wires (if memory serves) can cause interference, which in either digital or analog applications can cause trouble.

A solid core, however, is more likely to stay together, therefore is a better overall conductor of current. But, it's typically less flexible, so is seldom used.

[Jeve Stobs @ Mar 6th 2008 6:01AM]

Paaaaahahahahahaaa... "However, if you touch it, you might get shocked"

Sorry, but which moron actually believes there a CURRENT even worth mentioning (if even *measurable*!!) going thru an AUDIO-connection??! Ouch! But of course you generally made clear you have ZERO knowledge on the subject, so wtf.

And just on a side-note: no one actually suggested you hook your gear up via coat hangers! Duuuuuuuuuh... the point in the matter quite obviously blew right past you, huh?

[Eliot @ Mar 6th 2008 1:49PM]

Okay, "Mr. Stobs":

First off, glad to see you stand behind your comments with your real name.

Next, you clearly have never been shocked by an audio connection, nor have you, as a child, foolishly not listening to his father, destroyed a speaker and an amp by shorting out the speaker connection with an RCA cable.

And of course, you've never worked with top engineers in ethernet technology who explained clearly why their marketing group was full of it when they made a barbed wire demo.

But hey, your spelling and grammar is stellar, so clearly you know best.

So I guess, too, that you wouldn't have missed the point that I was making, namely, that the test really didn't prove anything.

Because if you had missed that point, you would have told me I was a moron... oh wait, my bad.

Jeez

[Ant @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:22PM]

monster coat hangers coming soon to a best buy near you!

[Jhongerkong @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:42PM]

MSRP: $450

[cooper8168 @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:25PM]

I know I'm saying anything new here, but I've worked in the pro audio business for 25 years, was a former
"Famous Monster" (featured user on their website), and can say from
firsthand experience that the fraud Monster has perpetrated on the
electronics-buying public is massive (greater than that thrown down by Bose, I'd have to say). Monster's cable products are
absolute junk, up and down the line, analog and digital. One of the biggest frauds: $120
for an HDMI cable that will do the exact same thing as a cable costing
only $12! And people lap this crap up! Just visit Amazon's comments pages and smell the ignorance!

[John Smith @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:39PM]

I have to stand up (from where I am sitting down) to suggest that perhaps in some respects Bose is not a fraud.

For my ipod, I use Bose's small heaphones (isolating, not cancelling) which surround the ears completely, and they sound pretty good, and I have not seen anything anywhere that price range (of around $150) which comes close.

[Jorvay @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:26PM]

The fact that JohnSmith is using an iPod rather than almost any other name-brand digital audio player on the market kindof kills his credibility on this. Although at least he's talking about using it while docked, therefore bypassing the iPod sound processor.

[DWells55 @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:29PM]

I've used quite a few sets of Bose headphones and was far more impressed by my Sennheiser cx300 noise isolating earbuds. Best of all, they ran me $50 from NewEgg. They're not perfect by any means and definitely too bass-heavy, but they're better than the more expensive Bose headphones I've listened to and definitely more than suitable for their price range and the fact that you'll probably be using them with a portable audio player in a public (not perfectly silent) area.

[SovietSpartan @ Mar 4th 2008 1:33AM]

Why does every bag on the bose isolating headphones (the blue ones for 150)? I really like mine on my x-fi. I can jack up the bass to max and it will still be clear and not distort. I have bought so many other "good headsets" and i just cant put up with the lack of what sounds like to me to be sound separation clairity. Bass is all fuzzy and sounds staticy along with popping and i cant isolate individual instuments even when i use Garageband or Fruity loops. I can with the "crappy" bose though? I also have these cx300 earbuds and they are great for my psp which i can't adjust the bass so they sound pretty kick ass with games like wipeout pulse, which pound on the bass. The only scary thing is when someone is talking to you and u can't hear them due to the great sound isolation and bass and out of the blue they poke you and you drop said psp and get last place.

Has anyone here used a pc gaming headset that at least sounds as good as the bose? my headbands have snapped and they lack a mic, but i can't buy anything that doesnt sound as good. I find most headsets lack bass and when i turn up the bass it sounds like the stock speaker system in my corolla, theres more vibrating and grabled crap coming out of the headphones than good bass.

[b33unit @ Mar 6th 2008 1:52PM]

I agree.

The problem isn't with quality audio cabling, this is evidence that Monster is a bad choice (much like Bose speakers), in that they're horribly overpriced with terrible quality. There ARE high quality audio cables that are much better than the cheap crap you get bundled or Monster cables - stuff that sounds better even over shorter runs. I'm talking about audio cables and interconnects right now, not video, I haven't done any tests with those.

Also, one thing you sometimes get with higher quality cables is better construction than you might get with cheap cables - this applies to optical cables as well. The sound might not be any different, but the cable connection heads won't fall apart as easily.

I been telling all my friends about how crappy Monster (and Bose) are, gaining market share through marketing instead of quality.

[Mark @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:27PM]

How about this double-blind test:

If an audiophile can detect the quality difference between generic and Monster, then he should put his own audio wiring on the line (and knowing audiophiles, they spent thousands). In the double-blind audio test between Monster and generic wiring, if he thinks the Monster cables are better quality, he keeps his own wiring which he spent thousands on. But if he thinks that generic sounds better, he has to replace his own wiring with the generic ones.

I'd love to see the results of that..

[rip @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:27PM]

That test has been done. I think on Audioholics.

A bunch of esoteric cable companies were asked to submit samples and were compared to simple zipcord and bulk cable.

Virtually no difference could be found. Including technical testing of signal and bandwidth.

Actually, the best part is that they asked the companies if they wanted to re-submit for another test. And I think most of them refused...

[Kevin @ Mar 4th 2008 11:48AM]

The thing about that Mark, is that audiophiles don't think monster cable is any better than generic. Monster cables, much like bose, are just punchlines to them. The only monster product people consider decent are their power regulation products.. and even those are considered over priced.

[AVnut @ Jun 3rd 2008 6:06PM]

I actually did a "double blind" test at Klipsch HQ a few years back - zip cord and some esoteric audio cable. Auditioned each one, first 5 guesses were correct. My accuracy went downhill from there, total 13 correct guesses out of 20. The Klipsch folks (who are very anti-esoteric audio cable, despite that shortlived partnership with Monster a while back) insisted that if there were a real difference, my accuracy should be at least 85%.

I run a mastering studio - one thing I know well from my work that these folks don't understand is the concept of ear fatigue. There's no real way to absolute double blind in a statistically significant fashion because listening to the same 3-5 second segment over and over again will cause ear fatigue to the point of indistinguishability.

That said, Monster is overpriced crap, and not particularly durable crap at that.

[SciFidrive @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:28PM]

A case of "The Emperor's New Clothes"

[Sy @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:30PM]

I don't want to create a fuss but soldered connection, whether it's coat hangers or any metal, makes a huge difference. Soldering is, after all, the chemical bonding of two metals via some solder. The main focal point of speaker connection is the ahem point of connection. If you have a chemical bond, then the connection is good as any.

Don't get me wrong, I think Monster Cable is a rip-off. But this comparison is quite unfair.

[James Yopp @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:55PM]

Umm, like the expensive prefab audio cables weren't soldered to their respective connectors?

Granted, coat hangers are bound to be excellent conductors, and you'd have to shield them somehow if you actually planned to use them. But I don't think the soldered connectors are giving the coat hanger an unfair advantage. It's not like he soldered the coat hangers directly to the input terminals on his audio gear.

[ColonelSmith @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:31PM]

I have a Monster Optical cable that is absolute junk compared to some off-brand I got for cheap. Sometimes the sound cuts out or gets delayed.

[paolo @ Mar 4th 2008 12:53AM]

Damn, I guess electrons love monster cables if they end up staying to long in them and your sound is delayed...

On a serious note, in my opinion, obviously high quality cables are over rated!

A) you would need a really really bad quality cable to loose some bits in a digital feed

B) as for analog cables, as long as it doesn't pick up radio noise and kept as short as possible, it's good. Resistance is the only real problem in a speaker cable... Getting the right length cable and having a bigger gauge can help that way more that 0% o2 and zirconium enhanced, blabla... And for lower loaded cables like rca and audio, smaller gauge (lower capacitance, less loss of high frequency) and having then short helps with interference. But I think most of the difference between those cables is mostly theoretical and probably happens in frequencies we can't even hear.

Finaly, was the music you're listening to recorded using all super high quality cables and such ? Are the cables inside your equipment high quality ? Didn't think so.

[George @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:32PM]

NO WIRE HANGERS, EVER!!!!

[Christopher @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:52PM]

Kudos, George, you beat me to it!

[James M @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:36PM]

Just wait until we are all using WiFi for our connections and they start selling "Audiophile Air"

[Jhongerkong @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:45PM]

MSRP: $450

Hey, still works.

[Shawn @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:38PM]

I guess their not real Audiophiles. I've done a similar test on my father, obviously not coat hangers, but rather cheap cables and he could easily tell the difference. In addition you also have to consider how good the equipment that they were using. If they are cheap ass stuff that u get from your local electronics store then it would be hard to tell the difference because the ability of the equipment could just be at its maximum with the coat hanger. You don't need the most high end of HI-FI equipment but at least at a respectable level, so that if you do put in cables worth thousands of dollars then it could reach its potential.

[Jake @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:52PM]

Speaker wire is just copper. Lamp wire is just as good and far cheaper. Bottom line is that you never have to pay "thousands" on cables to have your equipment reach its potential. Pay attention to the connections and spend your money elsewhere - on your receiver and your TV!

[CharlieX @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:53PM]

I'm with you. As far as my interconnects on my system went, the difference between Radio Shack RCA and Kimber Kables is audibly apparent. Not some freaking leap and bound, but you can hear it in a blind test (my buddy ran one for me)

Speaker cable - not as much. There's a lot of current running so deficiencies in cable are minimized (assuming the proper gauge.) But still don't use lampcord to wire your Wilsons.

[andyo @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:56PM]

Would you care to explain in detail your methodology, like whether either your father knew which cables were which; whether YOU knew (I am guessing yes); whether he was able to see or be in contact with you when testing; which material (I'm guessing copper, but just to be sure) gauge and length cables you used in both cases.

That would be good to start with, but even that wouldn't reach the standards of a proper scientific, statistically valid test. You'd have to test many times with the same and other sources, and you'd have to test many people. It is hard to get good evidence, which is not just anecdote.

And for those who say, "I hear it, and that's enough for me" then fine, but don't be making claims of truth (which are scientific claims) without proper evidence. If someone suggests that it may be placebo, there's no reason to be offended if you never tried to dismiss the placebo effect in the first place with proper accurate and (double) blind testing.

[Shawn @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:28PM]

It was just a casual test, the results wasn't meant to be published on some Scientific Journal. Anyway what's the point of him cheating, there are no prizes for getting it right. LOL...

Anyways ... The test used 3 different cables of varying quality and material. 2 were bronze and 1 was silver. He could tell between the 2 bronzes and could also tell between the silver and the 2 bronzes. The silver cables tend be faster in signal transmission and also produce a sharper sound. It's not just saying that one sound is different to another, but you also have to say what is different e.g. whether there is more or less bass, or treble, or if you have a silver and a bronze cable connected to different speakers you can also tell that the silver cable transmits the sound faster.

In addition the connections that we used were same model WBT's (from USA) and the cables were Kimber Kable, Van Den Hul, some cheap cable from the local electronics store, and a silver cable (but can't remember the brand and i'm quite sure it isn't one of those really expensive ones).

There are a lot of Audiophiles out there who don't believe in spending a lot of money on cables because they just can't hear the difference (that's there opinion).

[DT @ Mar 3rd 2008 10:38PM]

@Shawn

The "prize" is not feeling stupid for paying hundreds/thousands more than you should for NO REASON. That's a pretty potent motivator.

[Shawn @ Mar 4th 2008 12:55AM]

Cables aren't meant to transform a transistor amp into a valve amp (or vice versa), neither is it meant to transform a $800 pair of Sony speakers into a $20,000 pair of JM LABS, DYNAUDIO or WILSON AUDIO speakers, but its purpose is more for fine tuning.

[robotrock @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:43PM]

Thank heavens for monoprice.com ....and no I am not affiliated - just a big fan.

[andyo @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:46PM]

People are confusing different types of use. For speaker cables, it is largely irrelevant, and differences can be measured with instruments in any case. Pretty much with AUDIO cables the only thing that matters is impedance and length. But Monster is not by far the worst offender. Look up Transparent Cable. They even got into it with none other than James Randi, who bitchslapped them into cowardly withdrawing their commitment to be tested.

I like *some* Monster cables, for $25 you can get an equal-sounding, but far better quality-built audio cable. HDMI and others though, yeah, ripoff. But Monster is not THAT bad.

But for analog video signals, cable quality is relevant, especially with long runs. Not saying that in THAT case one should hook up with snake-oil like Transparent sells, but you WILL need to spend some dough for those.

[TrackSol @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:16PM]

You said that for speaker cables it's irrelevant, but has there been any testing done to consider EMI when running along power lines (for example running the speaker cables from your amplifier alongside the power cable in your car)?

[andyo @ Mar 4th 2008 3:21AM]

Like I said, differences can be measured with instruments. It is a perfectly scientific statement to say that there are audible differences with using different cables in different situations. Therefore, it is very well testable in a scientific way. Anecdote, which is the only thing that people who claim differences have, doesn't count as evidence.

[Mitty @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:46PM]

Monster Cable has been the poster child for successful consumer fraud companies for years. Aided and abetted, of course, by the people who also profit from the fraud, like the magazines that get paid for the advertisements and the retailers who benefit from the fat margins.

The only amazing thing is that an Elliot Spitzer type AG has not long since strung them up. Any first-year assistant professor of electrical engineering could demolish the company's advertising claims in a few minutes of testimony.

[Curtis Sponsler @ Mar 3rd 2008 8:50PM]

My favorite comment/push for high-end HDMI cables is, "This one is v1.3 compatible with the latest upgrade software in the connector." When I first heard this I just stared at the sales guy then bust a gut. I buy my cables from PartsExpress.com where they have excellent value and build quality – and if you really want to show off, you can spend more coin their on “high-end” cables too.

[Brent @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:04PM]

I don't buy cables because of any advertised signal difference. I do like good strain relief. I do like soldered connectors. I do like good insulation that isn't going to cut or break down to bare wire. Nothing to do with signal, but I don't like having to buy new cables when I move something and realize the old ones are damaged. All of that said, I've never had to buy Monster cables to find all of those things.

[johnnychipface @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:12PM]

"group of 12 self-professed 'audiophiles' "

I'd like to see the test done with real audiophiles (world renowned engineers preferably) and decent cables.

[DT @ Mar 3rd 2008 11:09PM]

Lots of people would like to see that test, but the "world renowned" audiophile engineers refuse to participate in these tests lest they be exposed for the frauds they are. These emperors wish to continue believing they are wearing clothes.

[cooper8168 @ Mar 4th 2008 12:19AM]

It's been done, and the results were essentially what I posted earlier. It was only for our purposes - we had to be careful at the time not to piss of Monster because the cable was provided for free (how "high end" could it really be?).

And another thing: I immediately question the credibility of anyone arrogant enough to refer to themselves as an audiophile. The thing is, sound quality is as subjective as color choice.

[johnnychipface @ Mar 4th 2008 7:34AM]

So you say this test has been done with engineers?
I think people who call themselves audiophiles are basically people who purchase items based on cost not quality as opposed to genuine audiophiles (whom I doubt very much refer to themselves as audiophiles) who would actually do their homework on monitors, converters etc

[cooper8168 @ Mar 4th 2008 10:51AM]

Yes, it's been done with engineers. I was included. The test, as I said, was not meant for public consumption, more for our own use. At the time, Monster was making a big push into the pro audio market but none of us were convinced they were anywhere near as good as Mogami or Canare or the like. Turns out hey weren't. I will say this: I do have some Monster TT patch cables that I still use. They are OK, but man they fall apart after a while. Not like Mogami patch cables that last forever.

[Jeff Jones @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:13PM]

I don't own a single piece of Monster Cable product because they are over hyped and over priced. But, As Eliot mentioned above, I'm not sure this is the best test to determine quality.

Coat hangars are solid metal and Monster Cable is stranded. Part of what Monster Cable purports to improve with all their gas filled anti-oxidizing cable stuff is less corrosion and therefore better flow of electrons through all those pieces of metal (strands) connected to each other only by the twist in the cable.

Solid metal is almost always a better conductor of electrons when compared to an equivalent stranded. Someone should run tests comparing Monster cable with some 14 gauge zip cord from the local hardware store.

[belor @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:33PM]

Just a note, I have noticed that zip and speaker cable has gotten way too expensive at the hardware store. Monoprice is much cheaper for 18/2 zip and 12 and 14 gauge speaker wire.

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Mar 4th 2008 12:14AM]

No. Stranded is better than solid core, _as long as_ the contact between the strands is good... if the strands are loose or broken inside, you really got a problem there...

[cooper8168 @ Mar 4th 2008 12:26PM]

That test Jeff mentions HAS been done. An engineer from one of the most respected studio designers in LA, Vertigo Recording Services (they do systems integration and wiring, not architectural) did that very test some years ago. I'm sure you can guess the results. Personally, I just go to PacRad and buy the spooled Marshal SoundRunner speaker cable for cheap.