Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers
By Nilay Patel 
posted Mar 3rd 2008 8:03PM
posted Mar 3rd 2008 8:03PM
We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.[Via BoingBoing]
Does anyone know where I can get 70m of coat hangers? Need to be shipped to the UK.
I worked at Rapco for many years, and I can tell you as redundantly as the rest of these good folks that the majority of this hype from Monster and other brands is just that: hype. Depending on your application, there are factors that make a difference in the quality of your sound. Things like shielding, gauge, etc can affect the amount of loss over distance that you experience. If you are doing professional installations, things like jacket type (plenum is required for a lot of home and industrial installs for fire code) and shielding are important, as you may be running these cables through conduit with a/c cables or similar stuff. If your shielding sucks, you will experience interference.
In the same way that your wireless internet degrades over distance, so does signal in a cable. In a live sound application, I've heard guitarists who insist on using their "super badass" monster cables, and it doesn't make a noticeable difference, period.
I'm rambling; it's early and I'm out of coffee. Don't waste your money. Get a decent cable with a lifetime warranty from a store that is reliable enough that if you do have a problem, they will swap it out with no questions. Rapco, Horizon, Quantum... those guys are good for that (even if I hated my boss and quit years ago, lol). if it's a cable that's not moving, don't spend money on high end strain relief, since you won't need it.
When possible, get cables with connectors that give the most surface area of contact as well. Banana plugs (M plugs) are great, and so are Speak-on type plugs (for speaker applications). the standard 1/4" and RCA are okay, but not the best out there.
Good luck. I gotta get back to work. I'm so lost in thought and tired of typing.
Why is this getting so much play? The original post: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?s=97d4a3c39d247bf955a57b3953326a34&p=15412&postcount=28 is from 2004.
Great news! I can get my dry cleaning and some excellent cables for less than $5.00
While this test is somewhat revealing, it's not imo, the point of high quality cables.
The fact that a single sample audio cable matches a coat hanger, assuming testing methods were good, would still not dissuade me from buying higher quality cabling. I am more interested in QC over a broad spectrum than a single snapshot comparison.
By purchasing products with high QC, thereby hopefully producing low failure rates, I could focus attention on other parts of my system where there is a much more pronounced difference in cost vs. quality.
I'm sure this just fills all the snarky "phile" haters out there with joy, but it's a bunch of nonsense.
First of all, these "12 self-professed audiophiles" must just be people who like stroking their own ego. Second of all, this is from a forum, and the entire story hinges on the "my brother totally did this!" line that i think is full of crap. Third: MONSTER CABLES ARE CRAP.
Most importantly, they don't even tell us what amp their using. Of course their $50 sony amp sounds just as good with shit wires.
This is nonsense. I just replaced some decent speakerwire with Audioquest Type 4s (Between a Rotel amp and B&W Speakers) and even my girlfriend, without knowing about the new wires, commented on how good it sounds now. This supposed test is full of crap.
But it all really boils down to the fact that this is a test i doubt ever even happened, and even if it did, it's far from scientific.
Jeff, Audioquests are good, and their cables get incrementally better with price. However, my advice is not to go on their upgrade path. I had CV-6 DBS and Bedrocks in my main system, but now they stay in a closet replaced by self-made $200/pair speaker cables.
Two things I can think of..
1) monster cable vs hanger, I'm not surprised there is no difference. Monster cable is crap. It's over insulated to appear to be thicker than it really is. Cables to make a small difference, although I'm not one to believe a $20 spool of 12guage wire is that much worse than the $7000 wire of the same length.
2) cables for digital do matter. Digital may appear to be 1s and 0s in the computer, however you're still sending them over an analog source. Voltage changes are used to show 1s and 0s, and at sufficient speeds with bad cable it will smear and produce errors.
"cold hard proof"
baahahahaha - good one.
wait, you were joking, right?
I hate when people trumpet this kind of crap. There's so many different conclusions you can reach there:
1) Monster cable isn't very good
2) The 10 people listening weren't very good
3) Coat hangers make for decent speaker wire (it's not a huge stretch - air dielectric, solid core conductor)
4) The demo system wasn't good enough to reveal differences
Or you could come to the conclusion that
5) There's absolutely no difference between good speaker wire and bad speaker wire therefore audiophiles are dumb
I'm not saying audiophiles aren't often ridiculous, but I find that the people who zealously maintain that no one could possibly hear the difference between wire are equally obnoxious as those who blindly assume they can. And just as ignorantly biased.
Quote: Ummmm... why are we even talking about this? Some anonymous guy in a forum claims he conducted some "test" in the basement of his house. Why anyone would attach any credibility to this is beyond me. Would you believe someone who claimed that they set up an experiment at home that proves that wifi causes brain cancer?
I personally don't believe that expensive cables are worth the money, but this "study" (assuming it actually happened) is a joke.
The joke is on you buddy... if you actually read all his posts on that forum you'd have some clue to the worthiness of his information. It's true about monster cable... they are the biggest rip off going. I have 2 sets of svid monster cables.. one is around 50 bux and the other around 150 (gas injected wutever) both the 50 and 150 cables performed exactly the same. Both looked like crap. Then i used the svid cable that came with one of my video cards. And it totally out performed both of these cables hands down. 20 dollar svid owned monster.
Now that I own a tv with hdmi i use a dvi>hdmi for my pvr. cost me 15 bux and it out performs the monster cable that cost nearly 200 buy a long shot. Thrice bitten 10 times shy... i'll never blow money on monster cables ever again. I've seen for my own eyes the difference. I can't see how their junky audio cables would be any different.
I've been an audiophile for over a decade, and I can honestly say that I don't know any audiophiles who use any Monster products anywhere in their systems. A few years back, I purchased an audio product that was packaged with a Monster 3.5mm stereo miniplug to RCA adapter cable, and I can tell you that it sounded absolutely awful. I swapped it with some other stuff I had laying around - a Radio Shack 3.5mm-to-RCA plug adapter, and a decent quality but not expensive cable (it was either Straightwire or Chord)...the difference was far from subtle, and I'll have to say that it really scared me off Monster products permanently.
Who said that Monster Cable is audiophile quality? It’s rather an audio-pile of crap.
There are some cables that make a huge difference. Typically, those are interconnects, rather than speaker cables and digital cables (e.g. hdmi). But then, you need a really good system to notice the difference. Don’t expect to hear differences with $200 DVD players and $500-1k receivers on Bose speakers.
If you don’t believe it, take some good-recorded CDs that you know well and a lousy pair of interconnect (Monster qualifies) to a high-end audio dealer, and compare it on a $50k-100k system with a $1k-2k pair (say, Nordost Valhalla). You’ll become a believer. That being said, I should also add that price is not necessarily a good indicator for how good cables really are. There’s a lot of snake oil sold in this industry.
But what if they were OFC unidirectional high-K coat hangers ?
Seriously though, metal is metal. There are "differences" between high-grade and cheap cables, but none of them will ever reach your ear, even if you're a dolphin.
The only differences that matter to me, as a sound freak, are shielded vs unshielded, and balanced vs unbalanced. Those two variables are very cheap, and have a dramatic impact on signal integrity when used appropriately in electrically "noisy" environments like cars and loud venues. Would I use balanced cabling in my home ? Sure! Would I spend 200$ per foot for audiophile cable ? Never!
Of course it sounded as good as the Monster Cable..Monster cables are just pieces of shit wrapped in a piece of shiny cloth aimed at the masses, they are highly frowned upon in the audio community.
Hilarious. "Self-professed" audiophiles. What a ridiculous test. Maybe the testers got confused between "audio" and "pedo". What were the test parameters? Where's the data? What equipment was being used? Shitty speakers will sound shitty no matter what cable you use.
Typically, cables do not make a real audible difference in home audio systems, as long as length of run and the expected load are taken into account (we'll also assume decent shielding). It ain't rocket science. People who claim 'huge difference' just from replacing a foot or two of interconnect with high-end stuff are deluding themselves; it's more likely that they've simple cleaned some crud off the jacks by changing the cables, and that 'upgraded' the sound. The 'even my S.O. heard it' trope displays an ignorance of why DBTs are used. And make no mistake -- the human tendency to be influenced by 'irrelevant' factors like price when perceiving quality or difference, is strong enough that DBT is mandatory. Just today it was reported that $2.50 placebos work better than $0.10 placebos -- previously it's been shown that relabelling cheap wine as expensive actually activates the pleasure centers of the brain more.
So just get a cable with good build quality, good terminations, adequate gauge for the length. Such cables can be had (or made) for cents, not dollars, per foot. Btw, many studios and pro sound outfits use Belden or Canare cabling -- well-made, dependable workhorse cable, relatively inexpensive. The ones that use the pricey, exotic high-end stuff are either getting compensated for endorsements, or are run by the sort of guys who 'don't believe in' blind testing and put Shakti stones on their monitors.
When people began calling speaker wire "interconnects" I knew we had crossed over from reasonable discourse to the land of hype and make-believe.
"Analog" versus "digital" cable? What? Get real. Hey, I've got some digital-ready paper I can sell you for your digital printer (you know, the one that turns your copy into digital print). And some digital ink for the any printer, even analog ones. Harrumph.
Being ignorant is fine, but learn when not to show it.
1) Are you aware that the audio information can be transmitted either in digital format to a decoder or in analog format (the actual audio signal) after it has been decoded by a DAC?
2) Speaker wire connects the speakers to the amplifier; interconnects are used to transmit the analog signal between components (e.g. CD -> preamp, preamp -> amp).
Wire is wire. Signals are signals. Audio is what I hear- nothing more or less, even the analog "signals" from my piano, regardless of the method of transmission. I will send the selfsame signal down the selfsame wire be the signal digital or analog, or, as with the case of my very old inexpensive Yamaha, plain old air.
BTW, I used to love the old KPFK show "In Fidelity," which had the refreshing characteristic of being utterly lacking in adoration of fancy wiring or cabling. (Although there were some very interesting diversions on the subject of cleaning records.) My first Stereophile show (some decades back) demonstrated the wide range of components available, and I remain in awe of the newer technology offered.
So, be my audio equipment hooked up by interconnects or wires or cables (a rose by any other name would smell as sweet), the sound is what matters, and I really appreciate the clarity this discussion has brought to the topic of expensive wiring.
And by the way, what was the purpose of the remark about ignorance? Was it some sort of attempt at a smackdown?
Comments:
1) ". . . and it looks like a group" -- what does this mean???
2) ". . . 12 self-professed audiophiles" --
1) What is ". . . it looks like a group of?"
2) What is "12 self-professed audiophiles?"
3) It's probably true because there is no difference between coat hangers and Monster speaker cables.
4) What kind of equipment was used -- stuff the most people buy in Best Buy, including Japanese-made speakers? With this kind of equipment, it wouldn't matter what kind of speaker connections are used.
5) When was the last time Monster had an ad in Sterophile magazine?
6) I consider myself a person who loves and apreciates music. This appreciation is enhanced by having decent stereo equipment -- it isn't necessary to spend a bundle for this result.
7) In the mid-90s, when I was using "Radio Shack speaker cable," an audiophile friend turned me on to a $100 10 feet pair of Tara Phase II speaker cables. The improvement was incredible. Usage resulted in dynamic low end response, improved image, more forward and detailed mid-range and lower treble, and a soundstage that was like night and day. I still use these cables.
8) Stereo equipment of better quality than can be purchased in Best Buy more often than not requires the proper matching of components, interconnects and speaker cables.
9) Appreciation of what I'm talking about comes only with experience and education about how to listen to music. I suspect that the average person who buys a Panasonic "receiver" with Panasonic speakers doesn't really care, as long as something is playing that he/she can "hear."
10) I purchased my first stereo in 1962, but I've learned more in the past ten years by associating with true audiophiles.
11) Folks who buy Japanese stereo equipment in Best Buy probably never even heard of a vacuum tube. Next you'll be telling me that Japanese solid state is superior to vacuum tube equipment.
1) What is meant by ". . . it looks like a group of?"
2) What is meant by "12 self-professed audiophiles?"
3) It's probably true because there is no difference between coat hangers and Monster speaker cables.
4) What kind of equipment was used -- stuff the most people buy in Best Buy, including Japanese-made speakers? With this kind of equipment, it wouldn't matter what kind of speaker connections are used.
5) When was the last time Monster had an ad in Sterophile magazine?
6) I consider myself a person who loves and apreciates music. This appreciation is enhanced by having decent stereo equipment -- it isn't necessary to spend a bundle for this result.
7) In the mid-90s, when I was using "Radio Shack speaker cable," an audiophile friend turned me on to a $100 10 feet pair of Tara Phase II speaker cables. The improvement was incredible. Usage resulted in dynamic low end response, improved image, more forward and detailed mid-range and lower treble, and a soundstage that was like night and day. I still use these cables.
8) Stereo equipment of better quality than can be purchased in Best Buy more often than not requires the proper matching of components, interconnects and speaker cables.
9) Appreciation of what I'm talking about comes only with experience and education about how to listen to music. I suspect that the average person who buys a Panasonic "receiver" with Panasonic speakers doesn't really care, as long as something is playing that he/she can "hear."
10) I purchased my first stereo in 1962, but I've learned more in the past ten years by associating with true audiophiles.
11) Folks who buy Japanese stereo equipment in Best Buy probably never even heard of a vacuum tube. Next you'll be telling me that Japanese solid state is superior to vacuum tube equipment.
1) What is meant by ". . . it looks like a group of?"
2) What is meant by "12 self-professed audiophiles?"
3) It's probably true because there is no difference between coat hangers and Monster speaker cables.
4) What kind of equipment was used -- stuff the most people buy in Best Buy, including Japanese-made speakers? With this kind of equipment, it wouldn't matter what kind of speaker connections are used.
5) When was the last time Monster had an ad in Sterophile magazine?
6) I consider myself a person who loves and apreciates music. This appreciation is enhanced by having decent stereo equipment -- it isn't necessary to spend a bundle for this result.
7) In the mid-90s, when I was using "Radio Shack speaker cable," an audiophile friend turned me on to a $100 10 feet pair of Tara Phase II speaker cables. The improvement was incredible. Usage resulted in dynamic low end response, improved image, more forward and detailed mid-range and lower treble, and a soundstage that was like night and day. I still use these cables.
8) Stereo equipment of better quality than can be purchased in Best Buy more often than not requires the proper matching of components, interconnects and speaker cables.
9) Appreciation of what I'm talking about comes only with experience and education about how to listen to music. I suspect that the average person who buys a Panasonic "receiver" with Panasonic speakers doesn't really care, as long as something is playing that he/she can "hear."
10) I purchased my first stereo in 1962, but I've learned more in the past ten years by associating with true audiophiles.
11) Folks who buy Japanese stereo equipment in Best Buy probably never even heard of a vacuum tube. Next you'll be telling me that Japanese solid state is superior to vacuum tube equipment.
I have always laughed at people for buying into this MonsterCable thing. Just because some hardware test says that there is an improvement does not mean that human eyes or ears will notice the difference. most of the people I know who buy that crap are only buying because it is new and shiny way to show off. A speaker cable is a speaker cable. Go down to Your local hardware shop and get a length of copper wire. It will work wonders. Believe me. besides You'll save Yourself a ton of money and You WILL hear the music.
i work at a circuit city. we actually ran a "test" to see if there was a noticeable difference between a monster 700 series HDMI(2 meter for $99) and our house brand of Nexxtech Ultimate. We had two 40 gb PS3's running into 2 brand new 42 inch Samsung plasmas. we then had both the TV's calibrated and you can tell a difference . The nexxtech cable created some ghosting that you didn't see at all on the monster HDMI. I know a lot of people aren't going to agree with me but it is worth the money. We make a much higher profit off of nexxtech but no one at least in my store likes to sell them for the simple fact we get angry customers 2 days later yelling at us about how their tv looks horrible and want to return the TV. it makes a difference.
This doesn't really prove anything. Maybe coat hangers would have the best sound for my keyboard going into my amp. Esp in a controlled studio situation. But I can't use coat hangers on a gig.
So they still need to do the real test - that would answer the real question. Compare moster cables to cheap cables.
Son, this is what you call “ignorance” and “. What your “test” has proven is how good your Monster cables are. Not how bad audiophile grade cables are. I am not any surprised that coat hangers beat Monster cable. In fact, any conductor you might find in your basement might do that.
You ridiculed yourself by calling Monster the "Highest grade audiophile cables". You have to read, listen and learn a bit before you talk/write about something. There was another comment sometime ago in the Audiophile forum-1, who said “The audiophile amp (Pioneer …) I bought at Best Buy…” Incidentally, he had the same last name as yours. Wonder if it was you.
Here is an analogy which might help you: You beat the 95 Mitsubishi Eclipse in the next lane with your Corolla at a color light and you conclude "Best performing sports cars are beaten by Corollas!!!” Well, son, there is a world beyond Eclipse. Ask somebody about names like Maserati and Ferrari.
people are neglecting to mention the difference between balanced and unbalanced cables! If you go over any sort of distance even if you have $2000 monster cables you will get interference as they are unbalanced.
Balanced cables however can be very cheap as they split the sound source across 2 wires and then invert 1. at the other end any interference is canceled out when the signal of the inverted source is re-inverted. that is why when you go to gigs the mixing console can be 100s of yards from the stage without any loss in quality.
I love this. I work in alot of big recording studios, and all our patchleads and mic leads are pretty simple wound copper.
It all sounds micky mouse.
Ive always thought spending 1000 bucks for gold cable was a realy silly idea...your still only listening to the sound of copper... through gold.
I think its actually more important for digital cables to be in really good nick. Ive had wordcolck problems from bad long cables a few times that can really hurt the way things are sounding.