We
wondered why its so hard to find one of Pioneer's award winning Kuro plasmas on shelves these days, and here is the answer.
The Nikkei is reporting that Pioneer plans to stop producing plasma panels altogether, and only put together HDTVs with panels purchased from other sources. Panasonic and Hitachi remain as the only Japanese plasma manufacturers, Pioneer already has a deal with the former to purchase
plasmas for its 42-inch model, and will expand that agreement according to
The Nikkei. Honestly, this wouldn't be a big deal for most companies, as we've seen with the
Sony/
Sharp/
Samsung triangle in LCD manufacturing, but since Pioneer is the only manufacturer promising the
blackest black levels this side of
carbon nanotubes, we're freaking out a bit. Here's hoping Pioneer slides over the blueprints to the infinite contrast concept (and that sexy
9mm model) and keeps the party going.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in; via
CNBC; warning: reg required on read link]
posted Mar 3rd 2008 6:42PM
Please say it ain't so :(
so
Plasma is DEAD! Blu-Ray and LCD RULES!
Phanbouy, do you get paid by Engadget to post everyday, on every article, multiple times?
They pay you for that? SWEEET. I'm in.
yep, tho, actually, only every _other_ day. ;p
...but i still get paid for every day.
damn, I was dirty excited about the crazy thin infinite contrast prototype as well. What gives?
are you pioneering the use of "dirty" as a non-literal slang adjective there or am i just behind the times all of a sudden?
never thought about it, but I think you're right, I did make it up. I think it came from the fact that I would use 'dirty' and 'hot' interchangeably when describing a hot (or dirty) girl. Eventually they became 'dirty hot' when one exceeded mere hotness. So I guess that's the derivation, but I'm not really sure...
"Here's hoping Pioneer slides over the blueprints to the infinite contrast concept (and that sexy 9mm model) and keeps the party going."
why? im confused. do you buy like a billion of these? were you saving every penny to get one some day hoping its still around?
how wiitarded.
finally plasma is dying off like it should have 2 years ago.
Actually, the best TV in the world is the Pioneer Elite 50" plasma.
It's rated higher than the best LCD by a longshot.
Hmm.
Maybe they shouldn't die.
'infinite contrast concept' refers to the contrast ratio, it does not refer to how many screens they can manufacture.
contrast ratio is a measure of the difference between white and black as displayed by the set.
To the LCD haters out there, I bought a 65 series Samsung LCD in July, which, at the time, had a higher contrast ratio (aka deeper blacks) and thus a better picture than any plasma on the market. Since then several models of both LCD's and plasmas have come out that display a better picture than mine. One technology is not better than the other, you need to judge each model separately.
wow and i thought Flashpoint's comment was bad.
Maybe they'll be contracting other companies to make the panels that they design. Kind of like console motherboards. They're made by different companies but those companies use the designs made by the console maker. Cuts back on over extending your company by trying to do everything yourself.
Plasma Televisions really aren't as viable as LCD's are. The cost of an LCD is lower than that of a Plasma and since LCD's can easily be used with video games and offer faster response times and higher resolutions - the typical uninformed customer who gets schooled on HDTV's when purchasing at a BBY or COSTCO is likely going for an LCD.
The final nail in Plasma's coffin is LCD's becoming thin enough and light enough to wall mount.
Its kinda like a format war that went on between Plasma, LCD and DLP. I like Plasma's Black Blacks but LCD looks better all around and is so much easier on the eyes.
"Better all around" should include blacks. Black blacks are very, very important to a display.
i'm no monitor pro, but my inexpensive westinghouse 24" M-PVA i just picked up has some pretty slick black
Both plasmas and LCDs do 1080p, which is the highest resolution digital video you'll find anywhere. Yes there are LCDs with higher resolutions but what's the point unless you're using it for something other than video?
I have a plasma and it's great for video games. LCD response time has gotten a lot better true. But LCDs still lack good blacks. I've yet to see one that doesn't look like washed out grey, which total ruins my enjoyment of watching anything on it. I dont know what you mean about easier on the eyes either - as if plasma hurts your eyes? It's not like CRT or anything. They're both equaly as easy on my eyes.
And what the hell is this? "The final nail in Plasma's coffin is LCD's becoming thin enough and light enough to wall mount." Uh, LCDs have been thinner and lighter than plasmas from the beginning. They've both been very wall-mountable for a long time. What the hell are you smoking? You think LCDs are better, hey that's fine, but plasmas are not dead - HA. Are freaking kidding me?
"I've yet to see one that doesn't look like washed out grey"
you're not looking hard enough
I just can't get over the brightness and contrast of plasmas. Best for sports, IMO.
lol, wtf are you thinking?
1) Plasma is cheaper than LCD. Compare a 50" LCD to a 50" plasma.
2) Plasma offers much faster response time. So fast that it isn't even talked about as an issue. Basically it is as fast as CRT. Unlike LCD.
3) Higher resolutions? Please show me the consumer LCDs that offer higher than 1080p. Since that is what plasma offers.
4) umm, you can hang both plasma AND lcd on a wall. And you have been able to with lcd since, oh, forever. So I'm wondering how that is the "final nail."
Seriously, that comment has to be one of the most uninformed ass-backwards post I have ever seen. I'd really like to know what you've been smoking and where can I get some...
wow Flashpoint you sounded like the typical un-informed consumer you talk about.
Plasmas ARE light and skinny enough to mount, offer the highest resolution so far, and have typically faster response times and even give you much better colors than most lcd tvs
About the whole "The cost of an LCD is lower than that of a Plasma"...
If you go to BBY's website, you will notice that Sharp's 65" 1080p LC is 9,999.99 while Panny's 65" 1080p Plasma is 8,999.99.
Now if I'm not correct, that would be about a thousand dollars difference, with the latter of the two being the cheaper and plasma.
That may not matter to someone who is spending 10,000 on TV in the first place, but a difference none the less.
Although I own an LCD right now, if I had the ability to change that or buy a new one now, I would purchase a plasma in a heartbeat.
And Pioneers, being the flagship of Plasmas and flat-panels, would be my first choice, with Panny being second.
Plasma also sounds a lot cooler than HDTV.
Same with Blu-Ray and the somewhat less interesting sounding HD DVD.
@rip
Compare a 50" *1080p* LCD to a 50" *1080p* plasma.
that really sucks, i repaired plasma tvs and pioneer had the lowest failure rate, as well as some of the best picture quality next to NEC.
LCD will theoretically never surpass a good plasma display in image quality. It's got better blacks, better color, better contrast(and none of that dynamic crap). It's the closest thing to the CRT. If you don't believe me check out the the '08 Panasonic plasmas packing 1080p. I have a '06 Panasonic which is 720p but Xbox 360 games look incredible, almost like looking through a window.
That's sad; I hate to see the best of anything drop out. (I'd throw in an "I miss HD-DVD" comment, but I don't want to be like geekmorgan.)
I've got an LCD, but I considered getting either a Pioneer or Panasonic plasma. It was my love of gaming that steered me away, just in case of burn-in... but I figured maybe someday I'd get a plasma if they eliminate burn-in before LCD eliminates their blur/angle issues.
FYI, I game all the time and my 50" vizio plasma has no ill effects. That's been pretty much taken care of for a couple of years now.
First Sony Kills SXRD and now Kuro is dead .. I guess they dont give a rats ass about best picture and just want to spit of crappy contrast LCDs to hang on the wall SWEET !
Have you seen the Sony XBR4 LCD's??? Obviously not, because they look better than any plasma ever sold. And when they first dropped with their 18,000:1 contrast ratio, the best plasmas were still putting out 10,000:1. So neither the hard facts nor people's malleable impressions support your argument. Go look at an XBR4 in person, then take a walk to the convenience store and buy a lottery ticket...
Oh im Actually more upset about Sony dropping SXRD , then the KURO Plasma going away , as i own the 60" SXRDXBR2 .. I was looking for a second HDTV for my bedroom about 50" as the 34" i own isnt cutting it anymore and was interested in the KURO as a second tv .. Im sure my next tv will be a Sony LCD or a SXRD projector .. Dont think i need a scratch ticket to get one though
to Jurhoss;
I have seen the XBR4 next to the Pioneer Kuro and the picture looks better on the Kuro than the XBR. There was the Pioneer Kuro demo with the goldfish and some japs doing some dances with a black background and the XBR looked gray and was no where near the blacks on the Kuro. The picture was also sharper than the XBR, the only thing that was better with the XBR was a BRIGHTER picture. Brighter doesnt necessarily mean a BETTER picture. Tvs in display rooms tend to be brighter getting more attention from consumers. Consumers are like like flies with bugzappers, they get attracted to brighter sets. I would not rely on their 18,000:1 ratio becuase that is the Dynamic ratio which varies from manufacture to manufactur and if u want to base ur assumptions of contrast ratio the 81 series samsung has 500,000l:1 contrast ratio and it still doesnt produce blacks or colors as good as the Kuro. AND FYI i see those both the samsungs, kuros, and sonys side by side on a daily basis and the pioneer has the best picture. Thats not to see that the pioneer is best for all apps, i agree in really bright rooms its better to go wtih the lcd
Jurhoss-
Are you kidding? the xbr4 is a good lcd but not better than a good plasma. We have a 52" XBR4 next to a Samsung 5371f and Samsung 5084 at my store. Guess what? The 71 looks better and the 84 looks the best(especially with the motion enhancer on). I love both and I'm sure everything will fall once OLED becomes more affordable. I was sad when Sony decided to kill SXRD. After hearing this... I just died a little inside.
Spit out i was trying to say
I thought that pioneer was only going to stop manufacturing the 42" plasmas and have Panasonic make them since people tend to by LCDs in that size. After pioneer announced their extreme contrast and 9mm thick plasma i really really really doubt that they are going to stop producing plasmas all together. I also thought that plasmas were dead technology but after seeing the LCDs with their blacks they dont even come close. The pioneer plasma has way better blacks than even samsung's LCD with led back light which boasts the highest contrast ratio than any lcd in the market.
To all the "plasma is dead" idiots..., do some research!
Plasma is still around because it is still superior in all the areas that count and will continue to be around until LCD surpasses it in those areas (color, contrast, black levels, response times, etc.)
If you are a gamer, or avid movie watcher why the heck do you even entertain the idea of an LCD?
Plasma is FAR from DEAD.
Maybe pioneer is trying to save money so they can kill sony on a next-generation dvd format (aka blu-rays successor)
Wow, it as though some plasma supports had their dog run over by a LCD.
Each set has its pros and cons, in some cases a LCD is a better option while other cases a plasma is better.
You like a plasma, that is great, but get over yourself and stop trying to pass a plasma TV off as the best thing out there in all cases.
I personally love plasma. After months of research and watching demos and side by side comparisons, plasma won. I love the fact that you can view from just about any angle, great for sports and games (yes, the tech is alot better now vs. 'burn-in').
My dad and uncle fell for the Sony marketing hype and bought Sony 1080p LCD TVs and now they regret it whenever they watch my Samsung plasma. My dad and uncle are actually a little peeved at me for not helping them with their purchases, but like 'zargon' insists, one is better than the other when it comes to certain things... What that means I do not know, but I can personally vouch for plasma and I have no regrets. It will definitely serve me well until the next best thing really does come along (LCD that meets or exceeds plasma features).
True, but flat out the Pioneer plasmas are better than anything out there. Period.
I've had DLP, and currently have a top rated LCD to go with my Kuro. And I'm familiar with the best from Sharp, Sony, and Samsung. But they look like junk compared to the Pioneer. The Panasonic plasmas are probably next best, but still behind. Great for the money though.
Put another way, I really did not want to spend as much as I did. But after looking at LOTS of sets, the Kuro was so obviously superior, I got it.
Now of course, there are plenty of good reasons to not go with plasma. But picture quality isn't one of them.
That's too bad. The Pioneer elites were one of the best looking plasmas made.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The media gods must me angry. Today we lost the Trinitron and the current Kuro's have been put on the endangered species list. So...much....quality...gone.
Like tears in the rain...
Damn! I love my 50in Pioneer Elite plasma that my dad and I got from my granddad. Its one of the best TV's I have ever seen. Its a shame Pioneer is giving up their excellent Plasma line.
Schooled? Sounds like anyone who still stands that LCDs are better for gaming need to read the latest research. Plasmas do not burn in anymore. Anything past gen 4 is safe. Phosphor lag still happens, but that immediately goes away with viewing of other media. So really other than the fact that LCD's are brighter, lighter and have less reflectivity and energy savings, all things I could care less about because they don't affect ultimate picture quality. Especially in larger sizes. Refresh rate? Plasmas don't need this stat, because they have instantaneous pixel on off. They don't need to be refreshed. I have an Kuro Elite 50" and a 81 series Samsung LCD (the very best) and there simply is no comparison. Plasma rules! This is a crying shame, especially since the Pios are the only 72 hertz panels out there which makes them without rival for 24p movies. I'm in mourning. They are the most expensive but well worth the price diff. Guess now we will just have to wait for OLED for the ultimate pic. As LCD will never challenge for this title.
Burn in is still alive and well with plasmas, even Pioneers latest models have "Seamless Orbiter" to try and combat it. However just like all the other atempts to minimize the effects the result is image degredation. LCD's may not have the colour and contrast of plasma but they are being improved all the time, with a lot less manufacturers using plasma there is a lot less development for it. The biggest obstacle other technologies have is price, even if OLED is superior it will need to be cheaper to survive. Most consumers just want the biggest screen for their buck.
Sorry dude,
Try reading this: http://www.electronichouse.com/article/the_myth_of_plasma_burn_in/D2/ If you were well informed you would know the facts. Here they are from the most well respected and reputable source in the entire electronic industry, the Imaging Science Foundation. If they call it a "myth" then I believe it. What proof do you have? I also have as much personal anecdotal information as anyone. I've owned 8 plasmas. I still own a 2001 Fujitsu PDS 5001 that has been used daily for many hours, including watching letterboxed movies, tv, and the like. Played many hours of video games on and there is no sign of burn in whatsoever. I took very good care of the set in the beginning, but as it became replaced by other plasmas and LCD's in the house I started to abuse it. Still it shows no signs of any kind of burn. I had a year younger Pio and it has shown no signs as well. LCD development is sickening to me. It's never going to ideal situation and will always be a compromise. It's driven by profit margins, they are cheaper to make and that's why the manufacturers push them. It's not that it's a superior technology in any way shape or form. It comes down to the yields. It's much more difficult to create the glass panels for plasma. That's why the companies are stopping production. It's just expensive. LCD relies on plastics and there is easy to produce, so it's the bottom line. As for demanding consumers like myself, we will pay for the difference. Unfortunately mass marketing generally wins out. OLED is in it's infancy, but will surely get cheaper as the technology matures. It truly is the holy grail of display tech. It really at this point no more expensive than plasma was in 1999. There just isn't any large scale display yet. Until then I can live with my Elite KURO as it is pretty much all that I could have asked for. As for my Samsung I'll put up with it, because as far as LCDs go it's about the only one that I can stand watching.
whoever is saying that LCD is better than plasma obviously doesn't own a Pioneer Elite ProFHD1. enough said. get your facts straight as far as gaming and what not.
Does no one care about quality anymore? Seriously; First the domination on the inferior MP3 format, now the shrinkage of the plasma market giving way to the inferior LCD. WTF?
SAY IT AINT SO!
MY 5080 is quite simply the best TV I have, and I have a XBR4, a 61-series, and a FP-T5084. I'll willingly let HD DVD die, but Pioneer plasma, dying? NO. How and why would you stop selling the best TV in existence? This is like Bugatti no longer selling the Veyron because "the Corolla sells more units." Who the hell cares? The Veyron is what we all aspire to!
I'm starting a campaign of spamming Pioneer to keep its Plasma displays. Until OLED TV becomes viable, Plasma still has the best picture. PLEASE, GOD IN HEAVEN, GIVE ME THE POWER TO CHANGE BOARDROOM DECISIONS!
*grabs axe and buys tickets to Japan*