GPS, Dash Express review
By Nilay Patel 
posted March 27th 2008 7:30AM
posted March 27th 2008 7:30AM
The actual Dash Express hardware isn't too remarkable at first glance -- it's a little larger than you'd expect, but other than that there's not a lot to it, just the two touch-buttons on top and a power switch on the right side. We do appreciate the separate cradle power connection, which lets you just slide the Express in and out of its mount without any plugging / unplugging. There's also a mini-USB port for home charging -- it showed up as an "RNDIS / Ethernet Gadget" when we hooked it up to a computer, but other than that nothing really happened.
What's really interesting about the Express is what's inside -- a variant of the OpenMoko GT0X reference design, the same kit that powers the Neo 1973 open-source phone. In fact, the Express was partially designed and is built by OpenMoko's parent company, FIC, which also makes the Cloudbook and several Linux-based cellphones. That makes a lot of sense, since the Express connects to cell networks just like a phone, but it also means the Express's Linux build and internals have been around the block a few times, and just like you'd expect, we never suffered and bugs or glitches while using it.
As far as the GPRS and WiFi radios go, well, apart from typing in our home wireless network SSID and password (there's no auto-discovery, which is lame if you have a long network name), most of the nitty-gritty is hidden away. Either it says "connected" in the main menu or it doesn't, and it seems to roam pretty seamlessly from one connection to another. We're assuming the 90-day free service clock starts the first time you hit the network, since we didn't have to activate anything or register with the portal -- we were just up and running right away. Each unit has a Dash Device Number, or DDN, which you can register at the my.dash.net portal to enable all the slick community / push features, but it's not required.
As far as the actual interface goes, well, it's a GPS. If you've used a nicer PND before, nothing's really going to shock you. That's going to be the hardest thing for Dash to overcome, just as TiVo had to slowly educate users as to why they'd want to pause and rewind live TV: sure, it can work just like what you're used to, but once you figure out how much it's capable of, going back seems ridiculous.
Case in point, and probably the most-cited Dash Express network feature: almost every GPS can tell you where the nearest gas station is, but the Express actually looks up the latest prices for you and points you to the cheapest.
The same goes for movies, and, more importantly, for traffic. The Express uses three sources for its traffic displays: a commercial provider called Inrix, and Dash users themselves -- "historical" data that's displayed as a dotted line, and (anonymous) live data that times out after a while and gets added to historical pool. Since the commercial data is more or less limited to highways, it's city streets that really benefit from Dash user data -- and the more users there are, the better it's going to get. More on that later.
Once you enter a location, the Express calculates three routes based on traffic, distance, and time, and you can pick which one you'd like. Surprisingly, we didn't hit any major traffic while we were testing (so much for that karma), and we weren't able to test the re-route features, but it's there if you need it.
There were some quirks with the basic GPS functionality, though -- initial signal acquisition took quite a while, and things got pretty wacky when we lost signal under bridges and between skyscrapers. At one point the Express was insistent that we turn onto the street we were currently driving on, and at another it decided that we had spun around 90 degrees but also said we had arrived at our destination. To be fair, once we got back to open sky, the Express jumped back on the signal almost instantly, and Dash says the Express is probably a little too honest about momentary signal loss -- a future software update might tweak the unit so that it keeps barreling ahead like most of its competitors.
Hmm. We don't remember getting there sideways.
There were some quirks with the basic GPS functionality, though -- initial signal acquisition took quite a while, and things got pretty wacky when we lost signal under bridges and between skyscrapers. At one point the Express was insistent that we turn onto the street we were currently driving on, and at another it decided that we had spun around 90 degrees but also said we had arrived at our destination. To be fair, once we got back to open sky, the Express jumped back on the signal almost instantly, and Dash says the Express is probably a little too honest about momentary signal loss -- a future software update might tweak the unit so that it keeps barreling ahead like most of its competitors.
Hmm. We don't remember getting there sideways.
There are quite a few ways to flex the Express's GPRS connection, but most of them involve a visit to the my.dash.net portal. From the device itself, you're more or less limited to generic keyword-based Yahoo! Local searches, which can't really be refined in any way and are frequently rather literal in their results. For example, there are a ton of Mexican restaurants in and around our neighborhood in Chicago, but a search for "tacos" just brought up places with the word "tacos" in the name, some of which were several miles away. We only saw results like that a few times, though -- searches for things like "WiFi" and "sushi" were far more useful.
Once you sit down at a computer and log onto my.dash.net, however, things get way more interesting. From there, you can access other users' saved Yahoo! Local searches, share lists of interesting locations, and subscribe to GeoRSS feeds, which are currently pretty hard to find. After some searching, we found one for local music, and it was pretty amazing: a constantly updated list of acts at nearby venues. There are similar feeds for everything from dog parks to airport delays, and if the Express takes off, we can see GeoRSS going mainstream pretty quickly.
Once you sit down at a computer and log onto my.dash.net, however, things get way more interesting. From there, you can access other users' saved Yahoo! Local searches, share lists of interesting locations, and subscribe to GeoRSS feeds, which are currently pretty hard to find. After some searching, we found one for local music, and it was pretty amazing: a constantly updated list of acts at nearby venues. There are similar feeds for everything from dog parks to airport delays, and if the Express takes off, we can see GeoRSS going mainstream pretty quickly.
"If the Express takes off" is actually the major part of the puzzle, of course. While the Express is pretty great on its own, it's only going to be really great if lots of other people are using it too, filling in traffic data and populating the my.dash.net site with content. That's called the network effect, friends, and when we asked Dash, they were pretty upfront about it -- although they've gotten solid traffic data in DC with just 20 beta testers and even better data in LA with 40, the goal is (obviously) to build a strong community of Dash users who frequent the portal and add to the traffic data pool, which can then start filtering out bad data and become even more accurate. In fact, Dash is so confident that the Express experience will get even better over time that they suggested that we test it again in three months, just to note the database improvements.
There are also some other, more tangible improvements to come over time: since Dash is always talking to your Express, things like firmware updates and feature upgrades can happen automatically. Dash says Express owners will eventually be able to do things like buy movie tickets and make restaurant reservations from their units, but once you start thinking about it, the possibilities are almost endless. We'd like to be able to tag and share interesting locations for later research, or bring up predicted future traffic information so we could plan trips better, or contribute back restaurant ratings on the fly or... you get the idea. It's an always-on 'net connection, we want to use the hell out of it, you know? For right now, though, getting the most out of the Express's features requires frequent trips to my.dash.net, which is a little frustrating. (For the record, my.dash.net works fine with The Phone That Must Not Be Named's browser, and yes, we felt like total nerds testing it out.)
There are also some other, more tangible improvements to come over time: since Dash is always talking to your Express, things like firmware updates and feature upgrades can happen automatically. Dash says Express owners will eventually be able to do things like buy movie tickets and make restaurant reservations from their units, but once you start thinking about it, the possibilities are almost endless. We'd like to be able to tag and share interesting locations for later research, or bring up predicted future traffic information so we could plan trips better, or contribute back restaurant ratings on the fly or... you get the idea. It's an always-on 'net connection, we want to use the hell out of it, you know? For right now, though, getting the most out of the Express's features requires frequent trips to my.dash.net, which is a little frustrating. (For the record, my.dash.net works fine with The Phone That Must Not Be Named's browser, and yes, we felt like total nerds testing it out.)
The only other issue is price, which is just a little bit harder to ignore -- actually, at $400 for the Express and $13 a month for the service, it's almost impossible to focus on anything else. Even if you sign the two-year agreement which lowers the monthly fee to $10 / month, you're still putting a $640 dent in your wallet. That might sound reasonable for those of you who pre-ordered the Express when it was still $600, but in a market that's becoming increasingly saturated with inexpensive traffic-capable PNDs, it's going to take some doing for Dash to convince consumers it's worth it.
That brings us back to the TiVo comparison, actually. We were frequently struck by similarities to the TiVo experience as we tested the Express -- everything from the "almost there" boot screen to the Linux foundations to saved searches seems familiar -- and the more we think about it, the more Dash has almost exactly the same problem as TiVo: convincing people its product is superior enough to justify the monthly fee. Just like TiVo, the Dash Express is best-in-class at what it does, but that monthly fee is going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people. If $600 bought you the Express and lifetime service, we'd be all over this thing; for now, we're going to say that it's revolutionary enough for road warriors and golden-pocketed early adopters to buy immediately, but we'll eagerly await the day when the power of the Dash community makes us willingly pay to join the club.
That brings us back to the TiVo comparison, actually. We were frequently struck by similarities to the TiVo experience as we tested the Express -- everything from the "almost there" boot screen to the Linux foundations to saved searches seems familiar -- and the more we think about it, the more Dash has almost exactly the same problem as TiVo: convincing people its product is superior enough to justify the monthly fee. Just like TiVo, the Dash Express is best-in-class at what it does, but that monthly fee is going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people. If $600 bought you the Express and lifetime service, we'd be all over this thing; for now, we're going to say that it's revolutionary enough for road warriors and golden-pocketed early adopters to buy immediately, but we'll eagerly await the day when the power of the Dash community makes us willingly pay to join the club.
So why don't we just implement a location based, contextually aware ad supported version. Some discreet ad section could be offering coupons for those tacos and oil changes next to those gas prices yadda yadda
W
This sounds like a cool device, though I think the model is a challenge. I am pretty impressed with it as a potential developer platform, that could be compelling in verticals, I am not sure what it would take to make that compelling for ave consumers. My sister just got a gps, it was $200, solved the issue she needed, navigation, and seems to work very well. I am not sure what it would take for her to switch.
In economic terms better traffic data would be worthwhile but there is a big psychological barrier to adopt a monthly fee device where others are pay once.
I am curious if the traffic data is collected from devices that are not paying for service.
From a partnership perspective, why Amazon and not the major retailers? Also, is it quicker to get the product from Amazon or from your website directly? Thanks
Mark from Dash here. We have found Amazon to be a GREAT launch partner for us, and we know that our early customers are more than comfortable buying these type of devices online. I know Amazon has an overnight option while our fastest shipping option is 2 days.
Thanks,
Mark
Could someone explain why the Dash Express has WiFi. The cellular connection should be enough to handle Yahoo Local searches and exchange traffic data. Plus, what WiFi router can you connect to while you are driving?
@Kyle -
I've been beta testing with Dash for the past year.
You're right that GPRS is enough to handle the Yahoo searches and exchange traffic info. WiFi is mainly for software and map updates.
However, I've been able to connect to Google's public WiFi network while driving on 101 through Mountain View, as well as Free The Net in San Francisco. The WiFi antenna is pretty impressive.
Kyle - Mark from Dash here. You are right, cellular is good enough for Yahoo! Local Search, Traffic data, Send2Car, and general every day use. We use wifi for a number of things, but most importantly, we use it to send down the larger software updates, like historic traffic model updates, map updates, application updates, etc.
My question about the Dash was whether or not you could input addresses on the web and have them sent to the device. It seems like you are saying that is what the Send2Car function does. If so, is that implemented yet?
Gergg1,
I have been beta testing the unit, and yes that is exactly what you can do. It is implemented and works perfectly. Its a nice feature. If you have a vast address book, you can use the send2car function, instead of slowly typing and saving each address on the touch screen of the device.
Is there anyway to import contacts from your phone or Outlook ?
Greg - Mark from Dash here. There is a plug-in available for Outlook 2003, that makes it easy to pull contacts from your Outlook, but you should know that this isn't "Sync", capabilities.
Well, I ordered my Dash with Amazon. let's see if I like it better than my Nuvi 760.
It seems like if we could get the Kindle for $400 with lifetime service why not this for $400 too?
A little clarity please.
I'm not exactly clear on the historical perspective of traffic? So, my unit will acculmulate traffic in it and then i download it to some site? so everyone else can see how traffic moves "historically?" I thought it would grab real time from other units and basically show me the best route based on real time traffic. I have a garmin 550 which gets traffic from fm very spotty where i live and commute to and from.
I was looking dash at christmas, my gift from wife, but the $600 price point was to high. I think I would have bought at $400:( Anyone want to buy a slightly used garmin?
Motek
This is Mark from Dash. Here is how our historic traffic works. As you drive you are automatically and anonymously reporting back the traffic conditions you are experiencing to our servers over the cellular network. We take all the data that every users is contributing and combine it with data from our partner, Inrix, and then send that live data out to every Dash Driver. At the same time, we take the live data we get from users and start building historic models on our servers, and every month we send out a new historic traffic model to all our users. Hope this answers your questions.
Mark
Can addresses from Outlook Express be downloaded to the Dash Express?
Can addresses in Outlook Express be installed to the Dash Express? When will hands free cellphone usage be available?
We have a plug-in for Microsoft Outlook 2003 that makes it easy to send contact addresses to your Dash device. Having said that, this is NOT sync, so if an address changes in Outlook you will have to update it on the device. Finally, we don't have anything to announce with respect to hands free calling.
Mark
I wonder when we will see Sync for Outlook with the Dash. That would make it a more enticing product.
I can't add much more to the technical commentary than has already been offered. I ordered my unit on the 27th. So far it does everything promised. what I would like to comment on is the customer support I have received. There was a minor glitch in my order process and something fell through the cracks. Everyone I spoke with on the phone or chat was 100% committed to resolving the issue. I chatted with Kevin and had a email from him. I spoke with a couple of people on the phone. Everyone had a genuine concern about my problem. This might be a little off topic but customer service is a differentiator these days. I just wanted to thank Dash for their excellent service and recommend them to anyone on the fence with the product.
First, congrats on the launch. Working for a start-up can be exciting during this time. I have been holding off until Dash Express was a reality. My friends do not believe I don't have a GPS, but I keep telling them why I wait.
My question: I have a heated windshield on my car. Will this block the signal or is there an external antenna? Any testing with heated wind shields?
Also, count me in on a lifetime/one time subscription fee.
Used the Dash for my first traffic venture yesterday in the New York area, going from near mid-Long Island to New Rochelle, Westchester, and then to the upper west side in Manhattan and then back to Long Island again.
It gave me the route I normally travel to New Rochelle, so that was interesting. Along the way, I got two "alerts". One said, traffic ahead, 5 minute delay, something like that. Another said a 10 minute delay. Very cool, I didn't see the traffic ahead, but shortly after, there it was. I did experience, on the Cross Island Parkway, with heavy but moving traffic, maybe going around 40 or so, that the roadway was all green on the Dash. I'd think it would have appeared to be yellow.
On the return trip, I entered the upper west side address from my New Rochelle start, and it only gave me two routes, with the recommended route to get to my destination via the east side of Manhattan. The most direct route, except for a short ride on the cross county parkway, would have been to take the very straight shot down the Sawmill Parkway to Henry Hudson...ending up already on the west side. I ended up in heavy traffic moving cross town from the east side, a big time waster. Which, of course, I suspected in advance, but just wanted to follow the route.
Should I expect it to understand how to navigate Manhattan? I don't know nothin' about gps stuff, but for a monthly fee, I do expect a better route than that provided, and obviously, with all those roads, there should have been 3 routes provided to Manhattan.
Planning on buying a Dash within the next 30 days... Definitely interested in a lifetime subscription option, depending on price - 3 months' free service is great if it allows me to defer on which subscription to get for a couple of months (without being penalized for waiting), and would also mean I can buy sooner if the initial cost is just for the unit versus having to pay now for the unit plus the subscription.
Brandon, you asked about cool apps for a connected GPS device: Any thoughts on integrating Google's Streetview? It'd be awesome to have the option to see a pic of the building/house/etc. (if available) just before reaching the destination.
I unfortunately wasted about $2000 on getting built-in GPS in my Accord, so I won't be in the market for a Car GPS unit for a while, but the Dash looks intensely cool. I will definitely tell any friends looking for a GPS about it.
I do think that the price should go down. Either lower the price of the main unit and keep the monthly options the same, or lower the price of the monthly fee (I would think 6.99 with 2 year commitment being quite reasonable, with 9.99 per month as the no-commitment option), along with giving an option to connect to certain bluetooth phones and use their data connection with a vastly reduced Dash monthly price (maybe $6 or $7 pay as you go, and $3 or $4 with 2 year commitment).
You really, really need to have basic bluetooth functionality. Bluetooth is a given on even the cheapest GPS units nowadays, and I can't imagine paying $400 for one that didn't have it. Given everything else the Dash has, if I was in the market, it wouldn't be a dealbreaker, but I know people that it would be a dealbreaker for.
I thought I would just add that the Honda GPS isn't bad at all, but the price is just insane considering what you can get from Garmin, TomTom, and of course, Dash. You could buy a Dash and about 14 years of service, for the same price I paid for the GPS package for my Accord. Just makes me mad to think about it, but it was the first GPS I ever had, and I had no idea what the going rate was for standalone units. Anyways, GPS was much more expensive in 2004, right? (When I got my Accord) I'm sure it wasn't $2000 though, and if you look at the prices of GPS on current model cars, it is about the same. Just insane!
I think they missed and missed again.
The first miss was Christmas '07 when the gift of choice was any of the sub-$300 GPS units, especially the units with live traffic and a touch screen.
Now that the iPhone can figure out roughly where you are and it has real time traffic, dedicated GPS units have to really raise the bar. Herd traffic reports isn't enough.
The second miss was the missed chance to "own" this type of GPS (herd traffic reports) just by pricing the first 100K +/- units or so at say $149. Just leave out some of the network features like downloading routes and offer those things as upgrade (for people willing to pay or hack in these features for themselves) and leave the rest of the herd at $149 and be thankful they're contributed to the abundance of live route traffic data.
There's a gazillioooon other features to consider (like a big button to say "help, I'm having a heart attack, send a 'blance) or as sort of mentioned in the comments here, just give the thinks for free to every police, fire-fighting and ambulance vehicle in a given roll out area to generate lots of real time data and hook the valued services into the network. It would also be useful to have a button saying "yup, just saw an accident or general traffic problem right where I am" ... once a few people hit the button, it's verification that there's a problem and first-responders need to scramble (reducing the clogged 911 thing.) I'd also put in a rolling dash cam video recorder to capture accidents, drunk drivers -- even fight a ticket if your gps nav unit says you're doing 72 mph in a 65 and the cop says you were doing 75 ... well, it will be an interesting court case until someone decides to block this kind of defence ...
Anyway, thumbs up for a great idea (herd traffic reports) but thumbs down on missing the basics of rolling out the product with a strong game plan.
A-GPS?
How about this for a comparison to TiVo:
Dash is located in the building next door to the building TiVo 1.0 was developed in.
Dash Express is a useful device and includes some interesting features like more advanced search for paths or telling about free parking places and where is the cheapest fuel.
mwilliamson, I mean Mark, I claim the origin of this idea since a year ago, that feed location/speed data from every GPS back to the central server then aggregate the real time traffic back to the GPS device, with a two-way connectivity. Too bad, there are too many smart people in this world.
Nevertheless, you should not charge high on this device, keep in mind, the more of this device on the street the better your traffic data is accurate, and you want to be the first to reach the critical mass, as expeced other GPS or even Google will come after you.
A couple months ago read somewhere that either Standford or Berkley student were experimenting a project like this. In any case, this is revolutionary, do NOT underestimate what you've just did and how much others have been inspired. SDK would be a good idea, charging $600 per piece would be stupid. My original plan is to give it for free or super low such as below $50 to race with the time to market.
I fell in love with the idea of the Dash and convinced myself I'd get one - but after a while I decided to wait and see. The price is great and all, but in all honesty, the thing works BEST the more users there are, and I would be pretty upset if I purchased the thing for so much money and then it didn't 'catch on' in my city/area. $400 isn't a big deal I guess, but when you have a GPS that already works 90% the way you want it to (just missing the gas prices/live traffic/yahoo ratings etc.), the $400 becomes a matter of luxury.
I own a C340 right now and the thing rocks, and the problem with that is that I can see Garmin/Tom Tom ripping off the idea to stick GPRS/WiFi connections inside the GPS - and when these makers do that, the user base will simply skyrocket since they're 'tried and true' brands, vs. Dash which is the new kid - brainy genius, mind you, but still, new kid on the block. When you drive a good car, like a BMW or Mercedes, you tend to stick with the brand forever. You're not going to ever go to say, a Honda or Toyota - and this sentiment isn't about 'status' or money. These cars are great vehicles to own and owners love them. It's brand loyalty. I think the same holds true for GPS owners. In a world where these devices tend to be flakey, sending you potentially to God knows where, when you find a GOOD one, you tend to want to followup with another one from the same brand.
Anyway, I feel that Garmin and TomTom will be like bullies that will basically beat the Dash up and take their homework....figuratively speaking of course. Wifi and built in GPS seem like such a natural evolution for these devices.
If they can overlay weather radar over your current location, I would probably pull the trigger now. Other units that do this cost about $800 and require a $30/month XM weather subscription. I would think could easily be done with the internet connection available on the dash.
What about weather feeds? Can you do that from GeoRSS?
Hi: Sounds like a great unit, is the a map for North America as I live in Canada.
I'm not sure if someone already said this: The next Iphone should have GPS and already has an always on connection is the Dash Team looking to port it's software to a device that will be in millions of pockets?
I just bought one to use in Houston… we'll see how adoption goes. TranStar is pretty good here, I wonder if they also get data from them.