Army tests of Land Warrior high-tech uniform successful, soldiers request more

We knew the Army's supposedly-dead Land Warrior high-tech uniform program still had some life in it, but now it appears that good marks from tests in the field might mean it's going to make a full recovery. The Army sent the 4/9 Infantry (aka the "Manchus") off to war loaded down with the 16-pound Land Warrior kit, and after some on-the-fly adjustments that made the gear lighter and more functional, the soldiers had talked Land Warrior up to the point where the 2nd Infantry Division's 5th Combat Brigade Team has now officially requested 1,000 more Land Warrior rigs. The main change is the removal of six pounds of inessential gear, but the crew in the 4/9 also requested and added in a "digital chem light," which allows buildings and waypoints to be marked in green on an electronic map, and restricted Land Warrior deployment to team leaders and above. There's still some tricky funding problems to solve -- some $102M needs to be set aside for the request -- but the Land Warrior project managers say it's looking promising. Now if we could only get some of that HUD monocle action on the civilian side, our morning coffee run would be a lot more interesting.

[BLee @ Mar 28th 2008 2:36AM]

you mean 6lbs out of 16lbs was nonessential?.....
why?

[devnate @ Mar 28th 2008 3:42AM]

"I guess we could live without this bear repellent, Frisbee, and three pounds of chewing gum."

[nDee @ Mar 28th 2008 4:37AM]

all 16 lbs will not be necessary when there isn't a war.

[Jason @ Mar 28th 2008 9:28AM]

As long as we are human there will be war. Hell, even if we were one big united planet we would still be at war with ourselves because people have different views about everything.

I don't see how 6 lb's makes that much of a difference; most soldiers rucksacks weigh well over 50 lbs

[Nate @ Mar 28th 2008 10:08AM]

Try going to the gym 2 days in a row (yeah that's a stretch), get on a treadmill and run for a mile. Do it again the next day only holding a 5 pound weight. Report back.

[OneLove @ Mar 28th 2008 11:55AM]

can it play call of duty 4?

[Mike @ Mar 28th 2008 1:24PM]

yeah, but they haven't fixed the respawning bug

[maniacprovost @ Mar 28th 2008 10:56PM]

Because defense industry engineers are old school. Not "Design the P-51 from scratch in two months" old school but "Let's build a massive interstate highway system just to transport ICBMs" old school.

It makes me sad.

[Cellenin @ Mar 28th 2008 2:36AM]

I hope they fund it and get the guys the gear they need. Lets see if the next administration does good by our soldiers and give them the tech they need to keep our military no.1.

[Jeffrey Whiteside @ Mar 28th 2008 3:41AM]

Yeah lets keep funding the military industrial complex man awesome. I personally cant wait till one of these guys comes to bust down my door. Who cares about Posse Comitatus. In case you don't know I'm being sarcastic. And don't bother replying that I'm not Patriotic, I was an Army Ranger for eight years. The truth is every time I see this technology I understand exactly whats going.

[Reader @ Mar 28th 2008 4:01AM]

Military technology, at the least, has always correlated and possibly been the cause of general advancements in consumer technology. So many inventions we use regularly today have been the product of military funding. With military advancements we have also ironically seen peace on a larger scale. I see what you're getting at, and it has some truth to it, but I think this is a good thing. Assuming that our government doesn't turn against us then all this does is increase our hegemony making political means a much safer route for other nations than military action.

Go ahead and tear me apart on this if anyone has some counterpoints, just a thought that came to mind after reading Jeffrey's comment.

[ethana2 @ Mar 28th 2008 4:09AM]

They can blow us up over there, or they can blow us up over here.

...but over there, we can blow them up too ^_^

[Cellenin @ Mar 28th 2008 4:31AM]

@ Jeffrey Whiteside

You sound awfully paranoid and filled with conspiracy theories for a Army Ranger (or the usual ranting liberal), I know a few rangers and ex seals and they sure as hell welcome this.

[yoshi @ Mar 28th 2008 6:37AM]

Okay Jeffery, enlighten everyone else as to "exactly what is going on". Or wouldn't we understand? Or is it a secret? Not being one who keeps up on the latest conspiracy theories, could you point me in the right direction? An article or two?

And, no, I am not being sarcastic. I have a semi-open mind and will listen to well-reasoned theories. I just hear so few well reasoned theories....

[DorianGray @ Mar 28th 2008 9:20AM]

@Reader

"making political means a much safer route for other nations than military action."

And that is exactly what military research expenditure is geared toward. The purpose of a military is to enforce political will when negotiations fail. Whether that means offense or defense is secondary.

There are several reasons the US develops and continues to develop the highest-tech weaponry: 1) our Constitutional philosophy is based on an idealism that runs counter to historical doctrines almost worldwide and which must be defended if it is to prevail; 2) our prosperity and proactive stance on individual freedom leads to a level of enmity from those who lack one or both; 3) as a medium-sized nation (look at your atlas) with three battle fronts, we can not afford for any hegemony of nations to feel confident enough to challenge us on our own terrain.

/Reader/ is 100% correct here; we are safer -- our nation has not been challenged with direct military action as part of another nation's political will -- because our weapons technology gives great pause to nations with superior numbers of fighting men & machines.

[David W. @ Mar 28th 2008 2:37AM]

$102 million to significantly reduce the risks of casualties and cases of friendly fire...sounds like a worthwhile investment to me...

I mean come on, that's the price of a single jet isn't it?

[Chris @ Mar 28th 2008 2:38AM]

This looks awsome, the only problem I can see is that things might get screwed up if the soldiers are parachuting into battle.

[turn_self_off @ Mar 28th 2008 4:32AM]

they dont do that much these days. helicopters on the other hand...

[Kamokazi @ Mar 28th 2008 9:01AM]

Most military durability specifications take into account the shock of a parachute landing...I would assume this meets those specs.

[Jason @ Mar 28th 2008 2:49AM]

@Chris

Most people using this are probably not Airborne.

Being a soldier this makes it pretty exciting to see happen.

[George @ Mar 28th 2008 3:34AM]

This project should go away permanently, it has many flaws, I worked on an earlier version of Landwarrior. Lets start from the dumbest of features on the system... The HUD, this is a very poor idea in the field for several reasons, 1) it covers an eye, eliminating peripheral vision on that side, and destroying any concept of depth perception; 2) you are shining a light in a soldiers eye, the effects of this at night should be obvious, try it some time; 3) near field to far field focus time, this is only a split second, but it is critical in the field; 4) force feeding information, I don't know about you, but I don't need to know what time it is every second of the day, I have a watch for that, when I need the information, hey I look down, this should be solved by a small flat screen like a pda that would clip to the soldier, not something that goes over an eye; 5) HUDs are still pretty bad at having a worthwhile resolution, ignoring all the other problems, the HUD technology that you would have a soldier in the field actually wear, suck... 5) Universal Soldier was a movie, a bad one at that, lets not have campy movies be the basis of our ideas on what soldiers need.

So thats the HUD, lets take another quick glance at some of the features (I'll be brief with these), they wanted and may have got a mouse pointer and buttons on the gun, also a camera as a "sight". both of these currently require(though they could be remoted with bluetooth) wires, connecting the gun to the soldier. A bad idea, a soldier needs the ability to drop his weapon with haste in many situations, so the obvious comes up, well we can have break away connectors, thats great until you realize that any breakaway connector that allows a weapon to be discarded easily is the same breakaway connector that will disconnect at the slightest wrong tug. and the camera... ohh to see around corners and shoot we have to have a camera, cause it's high tech and cool... a double mirror set up as a prism in front of an aimpoint weapon sight? thats to old tech and not cool enough, plus we can spend at least 10000$ per gun with a camera, and that makes the big military industrial complex happy, and they must be satisfied.

Not to say everything in the kit was a bad idea, the mapping ideas, and soldier location concepts were really good ideas, but for some reason the army kept insisting on that stupid monocle. Guess every half billion dollar project needs something dumb as hell. Maybe the army will through away the useless stuff, I certainly hope so, but after dealing with them for years I'm not going to hold my breath.

[peshue @ Mar 28th 2008 4:46AM]

Not that I totally disagree about the project being a bad idea, but did you read the article? The gun sights were dropped, and "only team leader and above" even used the gear. That makes a big difference as it changes the entire application of the system. Not only that it negates both of your complaints almost completely.

[Sati @ Mar 28th 2008 5:14AM]

I completely agree with George here. I was part of initial single battalion rollout testing for the Future Combat Systems initiative 'land warrior' initiative (4th Stryker Brigade Combat Team, out of Fort Lewis, Wash.). Here's my review..

So, deployed in Iraq, we were the first unit to test the gear in combat. Keep in mind, this gear adds 15 lbs of extra load at all times. you CANNOT drop this tech as it's worth more than you. Besides, It's just a bunch of stuff we don't use, taking the place of useful stuff like extra guns or ammo. The map showing soldiers' locations isn't exactly quick, either. And there are LOTS of glitches. I walked around the lot. My position on the map lags about a minute behind where I was in real time. That kind of delay wouldn't be too important in a long-range duel of sharpshooters. But in an Iraq-style firefight it could be lethal.

..When I finally got into a fight, making sure I didn't get my weapon entangled in the suit's wires. I point the M-4 across the field at a row of houses. I wait — and wait — for the enhanced gunsight to focus. It responds more like a cheap digital camera than an advanced piece of military gear. In the time it took to focus, I was shot in the arm by enemy fire. Yeah.. that's not something you like to see happen. I was then med evacted out on a helicopter. Well, it landed and when I came out there was a dude who looked like a cop standing there with my name out. I ain't trying to get arrested, I just got here. I sprang with the quickness like lightening, disappeared. I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror. If anything I can say this cab is rare But I thought 'Now forget it' - 'Yo homes to Bel Air' I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 And I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later' I looked at my kingdom I was finally there To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air.

[michas_pi @ Mar 28th 2008 5:42AM]

@Sati:

Damn! You had me till the end, good sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md6Flcrd0s

[Ysleiro @ Mar 28th 2008 1:24PM]

AAAHHH!!!

Sati you slick rick you.

Nice writing man.

Thanx for the laugh.

[murray @ Mar 28th 2008 3:15PM]

Holy shit, I've been Smithroll'd!

[lai @ Sep 6th 2008 9:59PM]

http://www.anti-cnn.com/

[ethana2 @ Mar 28th 2008 4:11AM]

I've always wanted to strap a camera and mic to my face.

The dude that never forgets /anything/. heh.

...bring on the TiB hard drives!

[Jeffrey Whiteside @ Mar 28th 2008 5:25AM]

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be might, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction. . . . American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. . . . This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. . . .Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. . . . In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
January 17, 1961, President Dwight Eisenhower
By the way Cellenin where is it said to be paranoid about believing in the constitution? We should be very careful not to turn human beings into targets on a hud. I know you cant make war humane believe me I know, but we must be careful in how we transform it...I look at games that simulate this and the kids think this is cool thats what bothers me, hope that clarifies things.

[Jason @ Mar 28th 2008 9:40AM]

I dont see whats bad about labeling targets on a HUD? Whats different from this and a sub sinking a destroyer? Its all just a 'target' on their HUD. In both scenario's the fireing soldier KNOWS he is going to kill a living person, not just a 'target' on the HUD.

[OC @ Mar 28th 2008 7:10AM]

@Sati

... what the hell was up with the Fresh Princery?

[Jack @ Mar 28th 2008 5:53AM]

awesome, we are one step closer to having a team of Ghosts

[initialxy @ Mar 28th 2008 8:34AM]

so when are we getting the crysis nano-suit?

[Dan Davis @ Mar 28th 2008 8:47AM]

Never thought I'd see the day when my Manchus made headlines on Engadget! I still remember walking the Manchu Mile back in '95... Keep Up the Fire!

[Prince @ Mar 28th 2008 9:10AM]

I've worked with this system too and I think that while yes there are alot of flaws but ultimately it is worth it. With proper field testing not nesseseraly Irag or Afghanistan, maybe Yakima, Yuma, or NTC and the engineers of this program actualy listining to feedback from the soldiers it could be great. If you've played GRAW2 then that will give you an idea of where this program should be headding. Just imagine the level of awarness on the battle field. All the OPFOR info from UAVs, UGVs, foward observers, recon, etc all fed back to the soldier in real time It's bannanas. If you're still confused play GRAW2

[DorianGray @ Mar 28th 2008 9:27AM]

@Sati

Aaaagh! Bastage! You got me -- that was a good one.

bastage.

[rwyuan @ Mar 30th 2008 9:54PM]

6lbs pounds on a 50lb rucsack makes a huge difference. 6lbs on a 1lb rucksack makes no difference...

[ticohans @ Mar 28th 2008 9:41AM]

The great thing about Sati's post is that it reminds us all how easy it is to be anyone we want to be on the internet.

The facts are that the soldiers on the ground liked the tech enough to request 1,000 more.

[Ysleiro @ Mar 28th 2008 1:23PM]

So so true.

That dude got us all !!

LOLz..

[sayid @ Mar 28th 2008 9:32AM]

Our tax dollars hard at work, I see.

[sayid @ Mar 28th 2008 9:37AM]

I play a lot of airsoft and i would not be very efective if i had to wear all this stuff.

[sepirioth @ Mar 28th 2008 9:45AM]

This kind of stuff is so exciting till you find out that the safet of our men at war is a problem since itll cost 102M... when the #@%^@#$% Census Bureau gets 6.6BILLION in funding just in 2008 and that # is going up the next 4 years... sorry, cant let go of that :) Wish we had some high tech stuff in the army back in my days, wouldve made some sticky situations alot simpler.

[sepirioth @ Mar 28th 2008 9:47AM]

Jason, take a 50LBS dumbell and walk with it for 10 minutes up a hill. Now take 56LBS the next day and do the same... imagine carying that much more all day long, it matters. (Or in geek language, why would you get a 4LBS laptop VS a 9LBS monster laptop :)

[Dunadan @ Mar 28th 2008 12:02PM]

Our military has actually become a victim of it's own effectiveness. We can pulverize anything instantly, so our enemies don't give us anything to pulverize. Because of the military industrial complex our enemies know exactly what we have and therefore how to combat it. Let's wait until we have a REAL nat'l security threat on our hands before beating our plowshares into swords. Look how quickly we mobilized in WWII. A minimal military could hold us over for the one week/one month necessary to mobilize.

Frankly, I realize some definite benefits but I hope that it becomes priced low enough that the average American could buy one. No, I am not an , or a er, or anyone else who has an unreasonable vendetta against the government. But there's a reason the Founding Fathers had the second amendment, and it wasn't just to protect ourselves from criminals. Go study up what they said. It is also intended to protect us from our own government.

[enjoi @ Mar 28th 2008 12:17PM]

DON'T WORRY SIR, I'M FROM THE INTERNET!!!

http://dontworrysir.ytmnd.com/

[Ace @ Mar 28th 2008 1:16PM]

I have enough experiences wearing the PVS7B and PVS14 night-vision in the 82nd to know that I would hate having a monocle on one eye. It does destroy your depth perception and your peripheral vision; that's why the Delta guys wear the night vision for helicopter pilots, and it's lighter weight. The truth is, this thing will be so clunky and burdensome that it will be more of a hindrance than a savior, and the soldier will never get to opt out of not wearing it.

Do any military guys remember wearing that stupid IR training gear made back in the 80s? (I got out in 2001 and we were still using it). The crap never fit on an M16 right, and it had to be modded for an M4 because the Army was too cheap to buy a new transmitter. Plus, the stupid halo that went on the kevlar helmet hurt the back of the neck from looking up while in the prone. And, who can forget that geniusly designed body harness that had to go over the head ... I can remember so many fond days of just want to drop my ruck sack only to be thwarted by being caught up in a spider web of tie-downs and that GD training gear.

Look, if only team leaders and above are wearing this gear, what happens to command & control when the team leader or above goes down? If everyone is going to become reliant on this crap, then imagine what happens when PV2 Joe Knucklehead (that one jackass in the platoon) decides to Sua Sponte because he's not jacked into the network? Or, what happens when the enemy gets ahold of one of those things from a downed trooper?

To me, that entire thing needs to be rethinked ... personally, I think we should give the job to Steve Jobs and the California Apple Lab. It'd be made as light as possible and simple beyond belief. Hell, it'd probably all be the size of an iPhone ... and get rid of that damn HUD! A simple LCD screen on the wrist would be way more practical!

[Dan Davis @ Mar 29th 2008 10:32PM]

Ahhh you speak of the Multiple Integreated Laser Engagement System, better known as MILES gear. I remember you could hit the transmitter on the M16/M4 just right and you could "fire" it without even pulling the trigger. Good times!

[Barion @ Mar 30th 2008 7:12AM]

Right, you could cheat by just tapping on the window where the laser emitted, which would fire and "kill" your target without firing a shot. MILES was pretty lame sometimes. I was a TOW gunner and the MILES equipment we used for our anti-armor exercises was a joke because it totally did not simulate firing a real missile at all. It was laser tag without the fun.

It's kind of funny seeing a reference to the Manchus of the 9th Infantry Regiment. When I was stationed at Fort Ord, CA in the early 90s with the 7th Infantry Division (Light), I was with the 17th Infantry Regiment (Buffalos) and we used to poke fun at the Manchus by chanting "bless you" when they were running by, going "Manchu...Manchu..."

Those were the days.

[Ace @ Mar 28th 2008 1:57PM]

I forgot to mention another "Army Lesson Learned" ... remember when the Motorola iComs were coming into service? People were going crazy to make sure they were encrypted and only selfish ass team leaders and above got to wear the things. They turned out to be awesome for coordinating things but I remember one of the hang-ups being the ear-bud.

I don't know how many of those things got replaced because the cord running from the iCom to the ear would always get torn up ... whether they were cut through or ripped apart by being snagged on things. Plus, the push to talk was a pain in the ass because it meant taking a hand off the M4 mid-firefight and pushing on a button usually pinned to the collar -- only to try and talk in a way the other guy could hear you cause you were gasping for breath from sprinting and diving (yah that 3-5 second rush thing), plus, having to say everything twice cause the button wasn't pushed all the way down, or it was pressed intermittently.

Hell, I carried my iCom clipped to my LCE, no ear-bud, for that reason. It meant having noise that enemy in hiding could hear and find my position, but it was a trade-off I was willing to make for mobility and flexibility.

I also want to add a piece of Army doctrine that goes back to the Rangers in the Revolutionary War -- listening. I don't remember what the acronyms is, but it was basically how the point guy took a knee, removed his kevlar and just listened, looked around and smelled the air. The point being, even the helmet can be an encumbrance when trying to use the most basic of human instincts in a survival situation.

[Jerry Mcmillan @ Apr 29th 2008 12:53PM]

WHY DONT WE HAVE REMOTE CONTROL TRUCKS ON BEGINNING AND END OF CONVOYS WITH CAMS CAMERAS THAT ALLOW YOU TO STEER VEHICLE THAT WAY IF IED MINE OR RPG HITS VEHICLE ITS EMPTY , WE GOTTA StATRT THINKING OUT OF THEE BOXPEOPLE.either that or start emptying cties a neighborhood at a time evacuating people to tent cities so only insurgents amd army are there and this is the critical part! once a neighborhood is clear we hold it till they cme lookn for us in this way we no longerhave a reign on amount of weapons and thers no where to run to no cllateral victims only win win kill ratios mm i lv the smell of napalm in the mornin & of course a large pile of ead insurgents go USA whooooa!!!!! cant wait for iron man yeaaah srry bout the caps spelling jst realized this we need more inventors on a military scale vry cool stuff anything that makes our mlitary supperior and saves our boys lives is all right by me Jerry mcillan x army Ng combat med Spec E 4 innactive