GPS, How would you change the Dash Express?
By Darren Murph 
posted April 4th 2008 6:30PM
posted April 4th 2008 6:30PM
GPS, posted April 4th 2008 6:30PM
powered by gdgt
A look back on popular stories from today in a specific year.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
Monthly fees suck. They should allow connection to the Internet through bluetooth. Perhaps if they want to collect revenue for working devices, then perhaps a modest annual fee would be ok for customers who are using their bluetooth connections...
Then bluetooth could be used for other purposes as well, such as hands-free phone use, etc.
I have a Dash and to Nuvis. Yes, the UI in the Garmin is better. But the traffic on the Dash, along with the gas prices and film times are better on the Dash. I have no doubt that the UI will improve quickly over a short time. They have already promised waypoints, avoidances, detours, etc. very soon. There are some bugs, and some redesigns needed in the menu system. But once they get these relatively easy things straightened out, this is one amazing device. And considering its potential (restaurant reservations, ticket purchases, email),in some ways, the sky's (or in this case, the internet) is the limit. I look forward to watching its growth and improvement.
Is it ready now? Yes. Will it get better, definitely.
I own a Dash Express in Chicago. I have not had any issues with strange routing or crashes/lockups. The traffic features are good but I wouldn't say they are perfect. There was a time I was in solid red lines when traffic is flowing free, and where it's solid green and I'm in bumper to bumper. However I think that should be expected. This is not real time traffic. There is a lag between the real "live" traffic and what is going on in front of you. I thought I read can be as much as 15 minutes. That being said it only happened once and that was due to roaming construction work. So the traffic was fairly dynamic at that time. Otherwise on my 38 mile commute each day it has been spot on for arrival time.
I think the UI is good. Small touch screen buttons would not be a good idea. You don't want to have to concentrate that hard on what button you are pushing while driving. The large buttons make that easy. I haven't used the search function too much. The send-to-car feature is great.
Things I would change:
-Ability to set roads to avoid
-Voice customization. I laugh every time it says "westbound". But it adds some enjoyment to my commute
-Add some more options to the "geek screen" for traffic statistics;last update, last upload, etc
-Powering on the unit should require holding the power button for x seconds or something. There have been a couple times I've accidentally powered the unit on and ran the battery dead. Not a huge deal for me but it could be if you don't have the charger handy.
The best part is I have hope my suggestions and anyone else's will actually get implemented. Dash is committed to updates for the units. Garmin is spending way too much time coming out with another 20 nuvi model numbers and TomTom is trying to keep up with Garmin.
Umm, why are the traffic light lenses in the logo UPSIDE DOWN?
Quick question: How does this work for those of us who use the HOV (carpool) lane in California? I live in Socal and I would be glad to pony up the dollars if it actual figures out optimized routes for those of us carpooling.
It needs the rest of the feature set of a normal automotive GPS (waypoints, find along route, etc), but they know that.
The routing algorithm is good if you're dealing with freeways, but doesn't know a thing about secondary roads. It's suggested some creative routes to avoid snarled freeways (though only on other freeways and highways), but it completely misses a secondary road that is a much shorter path in and out of my town. Once it gives up on turning me around, it usually takes 20min off my ETA. (To be fair, my TomTom 910 had the same blindness about that road)
Carpool lanes are the devices achilles' heel. It often reports that a highway is flowing only because the carpool lane is moving. But as it doesn't know if I'm going to be using the carpool lane or not, it can't make routing decisions well if the highway is stopped and the carpool lane is moving. This is a hard problem, and they're aware of it. (IMO, they should just ask "Use carpool lanes?", which will both bin the data they get from the field and let the device route accordingly)
The software is basically a solid beta right now, I reported half a dozen issues on my first drive.
The text-to-speech quality is laughable. It's not quite The Voice of BART (for you SFians), but it's close.
The device is *huge*. It has the same screen real estate as my portly TomTom, but the shape is just awkward to mount. I had a hard time finding somewhere to mount it that didn't obstruct a large portion of my forward vision. I normally mount GPS units to the left of the instrument pod, and there was just no way to make that work, even in an A6. Haven't tried fitting it in the Miata yet, but that's going to be a challenge.
But my Number One Gripe is that the minimum brightness on the LCD is still too bright for use on backroads at night.
If you want a lifetime subscription why do you have the 680? Every year you need to drop money for new maps. Sounds like you've got a subscription you're paying right now. It's just yearly.
The routing has been good for me. Better routes than my zumo gave but all of these units are prone to problems from time to time.
I would like them to correct the map refresh times. man are they slow. The unit features make up for the problems though.
I've been beta testing the Dash Express since November, and I've seen some pretty dramatic improvements with software and firmware updates. It's come a long way and I expect this to continue.
- While I don't like monthly payments and would love a lifetime subscription, I *do* love not having to worry about buying or installing map updates. It's like magic. The WiFi software updates are a joy compared to the 'hook up your GPS to your computer and run a software updater' -- uh yeah, right Garmin and TomTom. I barely remember to sync my iPod. It's a tough sell, but I think what they're asking is worth the money once you think about it.
- I actually like the simplicity of the maps, but Dash definitely needs to work on intelligent zooming so I don't have to fiddle with it so much. Ideally I'd like a dynamic zoom mode that always keeps my current location on the bottom left and my destination on the top right (with whatever zoom level is necessary to keep the entire route on the screen. (Think a bounding box around the route.)
- What I think would be extremely useful is to physically rotate it 90 degrees and have a portrait mode (think the old Triptiks from AAA...) While this isn't ideal for 3D turn mode, I rarely use that since I know where I'm going on the way to work. But I *do* want to see my entire route, which is usually easily bound within a portrait orientation. Zoom in by constraining the bounding box as I get closer and I am happy.
- I desperately want to define routes and weight roads on my commute. Routing on *any* GPS or online map site is almost never the complete path I drive. Rather than choosing a destination, I want to define a route/commute and push it to my Dash through the Send To Car feature (which, by the way, is sweet and frighteningly fast). A 'MyCommute' would be a series of road segments (not waypoints, that's something different), as well as my special 'escape routes' to consider if there's congestion. I'm happy to have the Dash make suggestions in addition to my pre-defined route, but show me the traffic and ETA on MyCommute! Of course, I'm pretty sure they know this as I bring it up about every two weeks on the beta site. :)
- Display of POIs on the map, specifically with GeoRSS feeds and gas prices. (Pretty sure this is on their roadmap.)
- Something like a GeoTwitter could be interesting. While I love the way they have handled the privacy concerns, I would like to have the option to opt-in. This "location push" would be useful to send traffic incident / road closure information to a central server along with me recording my route for my own purposes. Definitely opt-in though.
- Speaking of road closures, um, they need to show road closures. This has been my biggest disappointment with the device, and a no-brainer given the online capability.
- Yahoo Local is OK, but too many places are missing. Give me Yelp, CitySearch, Zagats. If there's some exclusive contract with Yahoo, then give me a normal Yahoo search if what I am looking for isn't in Local.
- Show me relevant highway patrol reports along my path -- http://cad.chp.ca.gov/ . (I would have rerouted to see this one though -- http://www.boingboing.net/2007/02/27/silicon-valley-traff.html )
I really like the Dash, and the potential is huge. I don't think people appreciate the back-end infrastructure that handles the traffic analysis and delivers the live and historical traffic info. There's only so much smarts you can jam into a GPS, and I think this is a good compromise and something I'm willing to pay for. That being said, optimization takes time and they obviously had to compromise on a few things on the front end device to get it out. But I look forward to the inevitable (and dead-simple to install) updates.
I've been very happy with my unit. I love the Yahoo Search feature and the traffic data. Can't complain since other units don't have the latest maps or search information.
Price? $400 for a GPS is average.
The Yahoo search is great!! That’s where it all ends. I used the Yahoo search to locate a new Target that was only one month old; any other GPS would have not found the location for another year.
Routing with three choices, shows the routes as highlighted outlines but they are difficult to see, if you choose to zoom in you have to wait for the map to redraw which takes longer than it should. I used it to route to the Nashville Airport , I prefer to take the back roads and with my Magellan I can use least use of freeways and with the Garmin I can change the settings to shorter distance ( I wish Garmin would get back to offering least and most use of freeway options the way Magellan and Tom Tom do) anyway-- I chose poorly from the little tiny map and selected the highway, while driving I decided to follow the road signs for the airport and the Dash only wanted me to make a u-turn and get back on the highway. When the Dash finally gave up and rerouted me on the back roads my travel time dropped in half and I was going the way I wanted.
Another limitation- When driving I am used to all other GPS devices zooming in as I drive this way I can see the upcoming streets and know I am getting closer to my turn. The Dash never auto zooms, you don’t realize how much you use this until it does not work. (The Magellan used to give you a countdown bar but it is gone from the new units)
There are no sub categories on the points of interest, if you choose restaurants and then want to look for steakhouse or Chinese you cannot, you only get restaurants. You can use the yahoo search and enter steakhouse which works great, if you drive after performing a yahoo search your distance will update but the list will not. Garmin does this best by constantly updating the list, Magellan does this the worst by forcing you to go back and research, I don’t remember how Tom-tom does this.
The Battery life is poor; in the FAQ they state the unit is large because of the wifi, gprs and batteries to provide extended life. My Garmin and Magellan provide much better battery life at a fraction of the size.
The traffic feature looks ok but I never had a traffic problem and never got to see the real value. If I kept the dash longer maybe I would but I don’t intend to use it anymore.
The good news, most of the issues are software related and can be updated if they have the resources to do it. The subscription fee is not a big deal for those that want updated maps and on line searches; it is well worth it.. The option to push an address to the unit is also great and works well. With some significant software changes this would make a very useful fleet unit keeping track of your vehicles, allowing searches and pushing addresses to field staff.
The bad news , the out of box experience was not a great one, they should have held off a little longer before releasing this unit and made it a better GPS. I would not recommend purchasing this and hope to see one of the other companies add the Yahoo search tool and push addresses.
What I would really like to see is Apple make a GPS with touch features and the best of what everyone else has to offer.
The good: One of the major uses of the Dash is for daily commuters who know where they are going and want to know about traffic conditions. It does this very well now and can only get better as more people in a a particular area buy them. I live in New York City and the traffic info is more up to date than the radio, and it updates as I drive. I have already been able to avoid traffic that was not even mentioned on the radio- and I typically listen to 2 or 3 stations. Searching on the cheapest nearby gas is also a great feature as it is constantly updated as prices change.
The bad: There are routing issues and the unit could work faster at redrawing maps, locating gps sats and zooming etc. But these can be improved with the over-the-air update feature. I tried the search feature on Friday and Yahoo didn't know about the Chinese restaurant I had just visited that was two blocks from where the car was sitting. Not a deal breaker, but it could be better.
If you drive in traffic and would like reliable reports, then the $10 a month is a small price to pay for the live information which is better than you can get for free via the internet.
I understand that their first focus is on getting the collaborative live traffic algorithms rockin and rolling. But to compete with other devices on the market, I would need to see most of the following features. For me, traffic jam avoidance is a lesser used feature (just because of the nature of my sleep schedule). However, traffic jam avoidance is precisely when I might pull out the GPS device. Because the software on the Dash is upgradable, I will mostly concentrate on physical features I find important. So, here are my suggestions for a Dash Express 2.0:
Firstly, I want audio throughput. I want to output my iPod or XM radio to the GPS device and then broadcast the audio, auto-muted for directions, output via an option of audio out or FM transmission. Please note that I am NOT looking for my GPS device to be my mp3 player - that's why I have an iPod and an XM radio.
If they add a Bluetooth transceiver, I would want the same auto-muting features as above with bluetooth speakerphone capability. And speaking of antennas, how many GSM frequencies does this thing pick up; if it's not could the next one have all of the world bands?
I'd like more maps as a no-cost OTA software upgrade. I'd like to be able to take all of the above features to Europe, Canada, Mexico, Japan, etc.
I'd like the software features beefed up a bit with waypoints, detours, advanced routing updates for new traffic, constantly updated alternate routes based on current location.
Please make sure that the interface is compatible with large blunt fingers (aka ham-fingers) and/or leather gloves (have to do a considerable bit of driving year-round and glove compatibility is a must).
I haven't had a chance to try the Dash but please make sure that the interface is the least distracting possible interface. Example: in menus, could up/down arrows (or something like that) be designed in the side of the interface (where a scrollbar might appear) and each menu item read aloud via text to speech following the menu item highlight (this would be handy for keeping driver's eyes on the road where they belong)?
I personally think that send to car is a fantastic idea, but if you ask me, it should be opened up a bit more. Instead of only the owner sending to his unit, why not allow the owner to send people to a webaddress with a code and allow them to send the address? or allow folks to sms their address to a number, which will then send to the car?
The idea being that if you're en route to a person's house or whatever, and need directions, they can have the directions sent to you. Sure you can just get the street address and type it in yourself, but if you're already asking for directions, why not ask "Hey could you text your address to my GPS?"
Just a thought.... I'm planning on grabbing a Dash in the next month or so, hopefully some updates address the problems that folks are having.
people CAN Send an address to YOUR dash. They just need to know your "dash name". Very easy to do on the website.
Like other's have said, the traffic is great (XM traffic's 15-30 lag makes it beyond useless), but the navigation is terrible. My wife rolls her eyes when I turn the unit on because she knows it's going to route us in circles. The interface is far from intuitive as well.
Hopefully it's only a matter of time before an established navigation company acquires Dash - or else they need to hire a BD guy who can get OEM manufacturers to license the traffic technology directly.
*
I own one. I think the price point is excellent for what it does, and the monthly subscription is completely reasonable, particularly if you consider that updates will be downloaded automatically, instead of having to buy a new SD card once or twice a year. If you consider that new map cards for the Garmins and TomToms out there are about $80, the extra $40 a year you'd spend on the Dash subscription is worth it for the two-way communication and traffic capabilities.
The bad? Many people talk about it being off by hundreds of feet, or even blocks. The only time I've ever noticed anything other than spot-on accuracy is when using the 3d map mode. It does lag a little bit in 3d, which may explain what people are experiencing. Personally, I'm just as happy using the standard 2d mode.
Besides, the updates to the software could fix these issues. All things considered, I'm quite happy.
I agree with everyone who says that this thing definitely has an affinity for major freeways and roads. Routing from Austin to north Houston has me slated for a 3.5 hour drive using major roads as opposed to my normal 2.5 hour drive using a map.
Several issues need to be addressed before I buy a unit. First, I would like to be able to preview the real time traffic for Seattle to know how it compares to my TrafficGuage. Second, it is great to be able to send an address to the unit from the web, but I would like to also be able to input an ETA and a start point and get guidance on when I have to leave based on historical traffic patterns. Third, there should be a way to mute the Bose radio in my Escalade when the Dash is giving voice directions, just like with my Parrot handsfree device.
Something different -
I'd like to see the traffic information as a separate product, so I could check via website, or mobile(!), and make it available as an iPhone app!
Heck, if that took off, Dash could use the website/api profits to subsidize the price of the hardware, you know, where they gather their data!