If the reports are true, thats terrific. iTunes ever growing library is clearly the choice for digital content purchases for all consumers. Lets hope this news is true and not a rumor.
1. Number ONE reason why it's bad - iTunes still has DRM in a vast majority of music, despite Jobs' "frustrations" about Fairplay! Do you want to buy music that has handcuffs to the iPod/iPhone all your life? 2. Hard Copy music stores are much more scarce, meaning there is a lack of a personal touch. Even places like Borders or Wal-Mart, the selection is lower that it used to be. 3. Digital music may take up less clutter, but then you run into potential problems as well - accidental deletion, need to back up on additional discs, and a lossy quality (CD's have the best quality) 4. (Personally), it feels more real to buy something you can see, feel, and touch. 5. Digital music is a cause and effect of a bad economy just within the lack of availability of music stores.
Because of this, I'm hoping music stores would get back into business. I don't want the CD to die out!
Uhm, I don't know if you have heard of a little thing called Amazon MP3, but it is clearly the premier choice, at least for music. Often higher quality, often cheaper than iTunes, no DRM, and Amazon's unobtrusive downloader slickly downloads the track and adds it to your iTunes library (or WMP) faster than downloads straight from iTMS. (strange, but true).
@Jubei: "clearly the choice for digital content purchases for all consumers"
Speak for yourself, not me. Why would I want this, when I can buy a disk that I can play on many devices and not be restricted with Apple DRM? Why would I want to watch it on the go with a 2.5" iPod when I have a 7" portable DVD player? Why would I want to watch a low bit rate, low resolution video when I have a Blu-Ray/HD DVD player which plays in 1080P on my 52" 1080p LCD? And if it is not available in Blu/HD, I can upscale the DVD with a much better picture. If I want to watch it on a small device, I can rip the disk and use the video on my choice of player - I can use it on my Zune, or I can use it on my iPhone.
For example, I can get No Country For Old Men on DVD (480p), Blu-Ray (1080p and is the version I have), and XBOX (420p or 720p). If get it on iTunes, it is only available at 480p - with a low bit rate. And I can rip the disk versions to any player I wish.
This is not exactly a win for everybody, I know that I will not dump my Blu-Ray/HD/DVD players because you can download a lower resolution version of something on iTunes. From your other posts (like your recent, laughable one about the Zune), I know you love everything Apple and will only use their offerings even if there is something better, but they have a long way to go before it is comparable to other formats. And they need to do a lot to convince me to switch to a vastly inferior format.
Basically what I'm gathering is that you have an obscene amount of money to waste on consumer electronics, yet scoff at the prospect of paying a single penny to buy a movie for your iPod. Got it.
$14.99 for the SD version of No Country off iTunes (it will be more, but iTunes does not display the purchase price of the HD version) $229.00 for an Apple TV (required to buy the HD version) $1099.00 for the cheapest Mac - with a 13 inch screen (required to watch the movie) ------------- $1342.99
$21.95 for a HD version of No Country from Amazon $1299 for a Philips 47" 1080p LCD from Costco $379.99 for a Sony Blu-Ray player at Costco -------------- $1700.90
A difference of $357.95. Yes, that is a bit more. However, for somebody that is part of a group that continously professes that you should pay more for the "quality" of Apple products, I find it a bit disingenuous of you saying that you would not want to pay $357.95 more for the higher quality (480 vs 1080p, at a higher bit rate) on a much larger display.
But then, you just proved the dirty little "secret" that everybody knows. When Apple fans say that you should spend a little more for the better "quality" provided by Apple products (not my assertion, but just repeating their party line), that is not true. It is all about owning the Apple logo, and nothing more. Why not spend a little more for a vastly improved video experience? But you will not, because it does not have an Apple logo on it, and so you would rather have a poorer experience.
While I'll admit to skepticism, if Jobs allows us to BUY the movie and then BURN it to a DVD-player compliant DVD format (MPEG-2 Video_ts filesystem, likely with CSS, yes it would have to be transcoded from the inevitably h.264 Quicktime download format) like the perpetually open music loophole, this will succeed. Caveat: the burned disc had better look just as good as a retail pressed one.
If it's locked down, they'd better be charging WAY less than brick & mortar. Can't take it to a friend's place, can't watch it on the go (well, except on their iPlatform), can't pop it into your home theater setup, and no backup means a lower price or fail.
Nohone: You don't need a Mac to watch the movie, just a computer running iTunes. Since I assume you have a computer, substract those 1000+ Dollar from your arithmetic.
iTunes is not perfect for everyone, I agree, but your arguments are not very persuasive.
If you accidentally delete a song or movie from you computer with itunes can you re download it without paying? I think thats one of the most important things for a digital content distributer.
Option 3: Take the first configuration, remove the iMac (I assume you already have a computer, the one you're typing on), and add the 47" HD TV. Cost: $1542 + iTunes HD markup, a savings of around $150 off the Blu-ray setup.
Amazon mp3 is only available in the US so over here in the UK it's either iTunes or Napster, which is equally DRM-ridden. Really bad situation :( (emusic doesn't have enough choice for my liking..)
In terms of films though, I agree that it's worth getting Blu-Ray instead of itunes. I can't really tell the difference at all between 'lossy' low bit-rate tracks and lossless formats (I've tried, and I want to be able to tell the difference but I can't) but I can tell the massive improvement offered by bluray.
"It is all about owning the Apple logo, and nothing more."
Just keep repeating that to yourself dude, if it makes you sleep better at night. For some of us, its also about using the best products, and the products we enjoy to use.
But if it makes you feel better to lump everyone into your narrow worldview, go for it. :p
"If it's locked down, they'd better be charging WAY less than brick & mortar. Can't take it to a friend's place, can't watch it on the go (well, except on their iPlatform), can't pop it into your home theater setup, and no backup means a lower price or fail."
I agree the price needs to be less than Brick and Mortar, and while right now it is just slightly, it could come down. I'd like to see $5.99 catalog purchases, but we'll see.
As far as taking it to a friend's house, i picked up a $2 cable (from partsexpress) that plugs my ipod into a TV (via RCA; no HD but decent quality) and can watch any of my rentals/purchases on any TV that has RCA inputs (read: all TVs worth using)
When my iPod is my mobile phone (waiting for 2nd gen) then it'd actually be MORE convenient for me to load up the movie on my iPhone and plug that into a TV than it would to carry around a DVD.
The fact that there's DRM does suck, and i wont argue with that, but for the most part, it doesn't impact the convenience (at least hasn't for me)
Also, about backups: you can make as many backups as you want: it's a file in your iTunes library. ...using time machine, i already have a backup of all of my purchases (and everything else) - and i can burn them to a data DVD etc.
...if by "backup" you mean "second or third copy i can give to friends" then yeah.. there's no "backups" but using the literal definition of the word, you certainly can back it up.
Don't get me wrong, i'd love to be able to burn the movies out to DVD and lend them to friends (not really caring if they're ever returned) - but there's not really much incentive for Apple to code that. (Also, CSS is a pretty CPU intensive thing, it's really not yet reasonable to expect home computers to do it. - it's not like burning a CD, or even a non-protected DVD for that matter.)
I'd call you an idiot, but you are obviously just trolling. let me just remove the trolliness out of your post.
$14.99 for the SD version of No Country off iTunes (it will be more, but iTunes does not display the purchase price of the HD version) $229.00 for an Apple TV (required to buy the HD version) $0 for the fact you obviously already have a (most likely Windows) PC. ------------- $243.99
$21.95 for a HD version of No Country from Amazon $0 (guessing here, but you probably have a HDTV.) $379.99 for a Sony Blu-Ray player at Costco -------------- $401.94
A difference of $157.95. In Apple's favor.. Even if you assume the HD version from iTunes will be the same price as a HD Disc, $21.95; it still comes out cheaper. $251.95 v $401.94; a saving of $149.99
You don't need to drive to the store, consuming gas / taking up time. You don't need to order it online, and then have amazon ship it to you / ups consume gas delivering it.
You fire up the AppleTV, find the movie, start the download, go make popcorn then watch it.
And good job debunking. I would have, but I was at a programming competition at UCF today. Won 2nd place!
Seriously, ignore the fact that it's a mac, and your problems with the product go away. It's reverse reverse discrimination.
At one point people started to like macs, and think Windows sucked, then the tables are turned. It's a cycle. (But that's not the point)
But the idea for instantaneous entertainment that is not only more convenient, but better for your budget and the environment, is really a good idea.
Sure DRM sucks, but then again, as long as there are hackers, there will always be people who want to get around blocks that "the man" has instilled. Also, don't worry. If people are able to crack physical locks, Bluray codes, and hack into infrastructures, then decoding DRM iTunes video can't be far behind.
Guys, I know there may be problems now with getting content to multiple devices and we haven't worked all the kinks out just yet, but we gotta remember that this isn't about how it is now, it's about how it could and will be. Digital music and movies in an ideal future would work perfectly once the hardware and protocols became ubiquitous, as with cd's for example. You'd have your main wireless network at your house to which all you devices would be connected. If you download a movie from any device (though with convergence I can't imagine you needing too many, but hey nothing's perfect for every situation.) it's automatically backed up and stored on your central storage device. Then if you want to say, send that movie to your ipod, you just select the ipod on the personal area network that all your smaller devices form and boom, there it is. All the devices piggy back on the home network for the net assuming they are not phones, and then, by themselves they form a pan within which you could, as I said, select a device to send your content to, or better yet, just think about it, gesture in it's direction, or tap the two devices together and it's all there. Or maybe the a.i. software in your home network knows how you usually like to do things and already dished it all out. I don't know, I'm not God, ok? The point is give it some time already guys and have some faith! By the way, in this wonderful little future of mine there'd be no drm, just maybe some universal wireless standards for transferring media. Hope that's gonna happen.... yea. I'm a dreamer but I never said I couldn't be pessimistic when it comes to people working together. Machines, sure. People? Meh. Oh, one more thing. Since your home network is connected to the net, and of course it is and this can already be done, you forget your movie and you just dl it in about 5 seconds(ok, not yet) and you are set. DONE!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Jubei @ May 1st 2008 2:16AM
If the reports are true, thats terrific. iTunes ever growing library is clearly the choice for digital content purchases for all consumers. Lets hope this news is true and not a rumor.
sk8rpro @ May 1st 2008 2:31AM
@Jubei, while your opinion is valid, I disagree.
1. Number ONE reason why it's bad - iTunes still has DRM in a vast majority of music, despite Jobs' "frustrations" about Fairplay! Do you want to buy music that has handcuffs to the iPod/iPhone all your life?
2. Hard Copy music stores are much more scarce, meaning there is a lack of a personal touch. Even places like Borders or Wal-Mart, the selection is lower that it used to be.
3. Digital music may take up less clutter, but then you run into potential problems as well - accidental deletion, need to back up on additional discs, and a lossy quality (CD's have the best quality)
4. (Personally), it feels more real to buy something you can see, feel, and touch.
5. Digital music is a cause and effect of a bad economy just within the lack of availability of music stores.
Because of this, I'm hoping music stores would get back into business. I don't want the CD to die out!
John @ May 1st 2008 2:38AM
Digital downloads are better for the environment.
Also, indie internet outlets can still vend music in MP3 format and it will be compatible with iTunes sans DRM.
Jubei @ May 1st 2008 2:39AM
Those are good points. It's unfortunate that we have to deal with DRM.
Yes there are ways to circumvent the locks placed on these files or convert to your preferred format and player.
The future points to all digital media for consumers.
What I'm trying to expound is that iTunes with its vast library is clearly the choice to purchase your content legally.
0megapart!cle @ May 1st 2008 3:01AM
Uhm, I don't know if you have heard of a little thing called Amazon MP3, but it is clearly the premier choice, at least for music. Often higher quality, often cheaper than iTunes, no DRM, and Amazon's unobtrusive downloader slickly downloads the track and adds it to your iTunes library (or WMP) faster than downloads straight from iTMS. (strange, but true).
Nohone @ May 1st 2008 3:09AM
@Jubei: "clearly the choice for digital content purchases for all consumers"
Speak for yourself, not me. Why would I want this, when I can buy a disk that I can play on many devices and not be restricted with Apple DRM? Why would I want to watch it on the go with a 2.5" iPod when I have a 7" portable DVD player? Why would I want to watch a low bit rate, low resolution video when I have a Blu-Ray/HD DVD player which plays in 1080P on my 52" 1080p LCD? And if it is not available in Blu/HD, I can upscale the DVD with a much better picture. If I want to watch it on a small device, I can rip the disk and use the video on my choice of player - I can use it on my Zune, or I can use it on my iPhone.
For example, I can get No Country For Old Men on DVD (480p), Blu-Ray (1080p and is the version I have), and XBOX (420p or 720p). If get it on iTunes, it is only available at 480p - with a low bit rate. And I can rip the disk versions to any player I wish.
This is not exactly a win for everybody, I know that I will not dump my Blu-Ray/HD/DVD players because you can download a lower resolution version of something on iTunes. From your other posts (like your recent, laughable one about the Zune), I know you love everything Apple and will only use their offerings even if there is something better, but they have a long way to go before it is comparable to other formats. And they need to do a lot to convince me to switch to a vastly inferior format.
John @ May 1st 2008 3:49AM
Nohone:
Basically what I'm gathering is that you have an obscene amount of money to waste on consumer electronics, yet scoff at the prospect of paying a single penny to buy a movie for your iPod. Got it.
Next!
Nohone @ May 1st 2008 5:00AM
$14.99 for the SD version of No Country off iTunes (it will be more, but iTunes does not display the purchase price of the HD version)
$229.00 for an Apple TV (required to buy the HD version)
$1099.00 for the cheapest Mac - with a 13 inch screen (required to watch the movie)
-------------
$1342.99
$21.95 for a HD version of No Country from Amazon
$1299 for a Philips 47" 1080p LCD from Costco
$379.99 for a Sony Blu-Ray player at Costco
--------------
$1700.90
A difference of $357.95. Yes, that is a bit more. However, for somebody that is part of a group that continously professes that you should pay more for the "quality" of Apple products, I find it a bit disingenuous of you saying that you would not want to pay $357.95 more for the higher quality (480 vs 1080p, at a higher bit rate) on a much larger display.
But then, you just proved the dirty little "secret" that everybody knows. When Apple fans say that you should spend a little more for the better "quality" provided by Apple products (not my assertion, but just repeating their party line), that is not true. It is all about owning the Apple logo, and nothing more. Why not spend a little more for a vastly improved video experience? But you will not, because it does not have an Apple logo on it, and so you would rather have a poorer experience.
Josh Warner @ May 1st 2008 5:06AM
While I'll admit to skepticism, if Jobs allows us to BUY the movie and then BURN it to a DVD-player compliant DVD format (MPEG-2 Video_ts filesystem, likely with CSS, yes it would have to be transcoded from the inevitably h.264 Quicktime download format) like the perpetually open music loophole, this will succeed. Caveat: the burned disc had better look just as good as a retail pressed one.
If it's locked down, they'd better be charging WAY less than brick & mortar. Can't take it to a friend's place, can't watch it on the go (well, except on their iPlatform), can't pop it into your home theater setup, and no backup means a lower price or fail.
SanHolo @ May 19th 2008 6:20AM
Nohone: You don't need a Mac to watch the movie, just a computer running iTunes. Since I assume you have a computer, substract those 1000+ Dollar from your arithmetic.
iTunes is not perfect for everyone, I agree, but your arguments are not very persuasive.
gfar @ May 1st 2008 8:12AM
Nohone --
"...which plays in 1080P on my 52" 1080p LCD?"
"$1299 for a Philips 47" 1080p LCD from Costco"
BUSTED.
Eric H @ May 1st 2008 8:27AM
If you accidentally delete a song or movie from you computer with itunes can you re download it without paying? I think thats one of the most important things for a digital content distributer.
bondsbw @ May 1st 2008 8:48AM
@Mahone:
Option 3: Take the first configuration, remove the iMac (I assume you already have a computer, the one you're typing on), and add the 47" HD TV. Cost: $1542 + iTunes HD markup, a savings of around $150 off the Blu-ray setup.
Ted @ May 1st 2008 8:59AM
Amazon mp3 is only available in the US so over here in the UK it's either iTunes or Napster, which is equally DRM-ridden. Really bad situation :(
(emusic doesn't have enough choice for my liking..)
In terms of films though, I agree that it's worth getting Blu-Ray instead of itunes. I can't really tell the difference at all between 'lossy' low bit-rate tracks and lossless formats (I've tried, and I want to be able to tell the difference but I can't) but I can tell the massive improvement offered by bluray.
MacBookUser @ May 1st 2008 9:49AM
"It is all about owning the Apple logo, and nothing more."
Just keep repeating that to yourself dude, if it makes you sleep better at night. For some of us, its also about using the best products, and the products we enjoy to use.
But if it makes you feel better to lump everyone into your narrow worldview, go for it. :p
Jeff @ May 1st 2008 11:34AM
@ Josh Warner
"If it's locked down, they'd better be charging WAY less than brick & mortar. Can't take it to a friend's place, can't watch it on the go (well, except on their iPlatform), can't pop it into your home theater setup, and no backup means a lower price or fail."
I agree the price needs to be less than Brick and Mortar, and while right now it is just slightly, it could come down. I'd like to see $5.99 catalog purchases, but we'll see.
As far as taking it to a friend's house, i picked up a $2 cable (from partsexpress) that plugs my ipod into a TV (via RCA; no HD but decent quality) and can watch any of my rentals/purchases on any TV that has RCA inputs (read: all TVs worth using)
When my iPod is my mobile phone (waiting for 2nd gen) then it'd actually be MORE convenient for me to load up the movie on my iPhone and plug that into a TV than it would to carry around a DVD.
The fact that there's DRM does suck, and i wont argue with that, but for the most part, it doesn't impact the convenience (at least hasn't for me)
Also, about backups: you can make as many backups as you want: it's a file in your iTunes library. ...using time machine, i already have a backup of all of my purchases (and everything else) - and i can burn them to a data DVD etc.
...if by "backup" you mean "second or third copy i can give to friends" then yeah.. there's no "backups" but using the literal definition of the word, you certainly can back it up.
Don't get me wrong, i'd love to be able to burn the movies out to DVD and lend them to friends (not really caring if they're ever returned) - but there's not really much incentive for Apple to code that. (Also, CSS is a pretty CPU intensive thing, it's really not yet reasonable to expect home computers to do it. - it's not like burning a CD, or even a non-protected DVD for that matter.)
paul @ May 1st 2008 1:10PM
@Nohone
I'd call you an idiot, but you are obviously just trolling. let me just remove the trolliness out of your post.
$14.99 for the SD version of No Country off iTunes (it will be more, but iTunes does not display the purchase price of the HD version)
$229.00 for an Apple TV (required to buy the HD version)
$0 for the fact you obviously already have a (most likely Windows) PC.
-------------
$243.99
$21.95 for a HD version of No Country from Amazon
$0 (guessing here, but you probably have a HDTV.)
$379.99 for a Sony Blu-Ray player at Costco
--------------
$401.94
A difference of $157.95. In Apple's favor.. Even if you assume the HD version from iTunes will be the same price as a HD Disc, $21.95; it still comes out cheaper. $251.95 v $401.94; a saving of $149.99
You don't need to drive to the store, consuming gas / taking up time. You don't need to order it online, and then have amazon ship it to you / ups consume gas delivering it.
You fire up the AppleTV, find the movie, start the download, go make popcorn then watch it.
Mike10010100 @ May 1st 2008 8:30PM
Paul has an amazing point.
And good job debunking. I would have, but I was at a programming competition at UCF today. Won 2nd place!
Seriously, ignore the fact that it's a mac, and your problems with the product go away. It's reverse reverse discrimination.
At one point people started to like macs, and think Windows sucked, then the tables are turned. It's a cycle. (But that's not the point)
But the idea for instantaneous entertainment that is not only more convenient, but better for your budget and the environment, is really a good idea.
Sure DRM sucks, but then again, as long as there are hackers, there will always be people who want to get around blocks that "the man" has instilled. Also, don't worry. If people are able to crack physical locks, Bluray codes, and hack into infrastructures, then decoding DRM iTunes video can't be far behind.
spacegravity4me @ May 2nd 2008 1:32AM
Guys, I know there may be problems now with getting content to multiple devices and we haven't worked all the kinks out just yet, but we gotta remember that this isn't about how it is now, it's about how it could and will be. Digital music and movies in an ideal future would work perfectly once the hardware and protocols became ubiquitous, as with cd's for example. You'd have your main wireless network at your house to which all you devices would be connected. If you download a movie from any device (though with convergence I can't imagine you needing too many, but hey nothing's perfect for every situation.) it's automatically backed up and stored on your central storage device. Then if you want to say, send that movie to your ipod, you just select the ipod on the personal area network that all your smaller devices form and boom, there it is. All the devices piggy back on the home network for the net assuming they are not phones, and then, by themselves they form a pan within which you could, as I said, select a device to send your content to, or better yet, just think about it, gesture in it's direction, or tap the two devices together and it's all there. Or maybe the a.i. software in your home network knows how you usually like to do things and already dished it all out. I don't know, I'm not God, ok? The point is give it some time already guys and have some faith! By the way, in this wonderful little future of mine there'd be no drm, just maybe some universal wireless standards for transferring media. Hope that's gonna happen.... yea. I'm a dreamer but I never said I couldn't be pessimistic when it comes to people working together. Machines, sure. People? Meh. Oh, one more thing. Since your home network is connected to the net, and of course it is and this can already be done, you forget your movie and you just dl it in about 5 seconds(ok, not yet) and you are set. DONE!