Microsoft's recently refurbished Zune store
features a lot of NBC content like Heroes and The Office, but it looks like it may have come at what could be a steep price: NBC recently told the New York Times that it's working with Microsoft to develop "copyright filters" for the Zune that would "remove pirated movies and videos." (We'll pause for a moment so you can gape appropriately.) Granted, it's not clear whether NBC wants to actually
delete non-DRM'd media or simply block playback, but apparently the network thinks it's an issue on par with variable pricing, and it's
not in the iTunes Store because Apple refuses to cooperate. Microsoft, on the other hand, is apparently cheerfully working on such a solution, dubbed the "copyright cop," and says that it's sympathetic to NBC's concerns because it also suffers from piracy issues. Sigh. Of course, none of this is new territory for NBC or Microsoft: the two companies are working in similar content filtering systems to be implemented at
the ISP level with AT&T, and NBC and SanDisk are working on a
filter for Sansa players as well. Still, if Microsoft is serious about competing with the iPod, signing up for consumer-hostile DRM systems that actually block playback and potentially delete files just isn't the way to do it -- let's hope this one dies on the vine.
Update: Although a spokesperson told the NYT that Microsoft was working with NBC on anti-piracy efforts, the company is now saying that
it has no plans to implement a "copyright cop" in the Zune, and the Zune Insider blog
confirms. Great, now just cancel the ISP-level filtering system and we'll be all set.
posted May 7th 2008 7:58PM
As much as I miss having the option to download The Office directly from iTunes, I'm glad Apple stood firm with their decision to not play cops and robbers with their customers.
All you are doing is keeping the money in Apple's pockets. Which is not a problem to me. But why shouldn't NBC get money for every piece of content THAT THEY OWN???? Q.
BUT WILL IT PLAY MKV???
So what is the solution? Stop talking about what's not the solution and start giving us your great idea to stop piracy!!!! Q.
One way to slow down piracy: Remove the restrictive DRM from online downloads. Of course there's always cheapos who won't pay for even a non-DRM video or MP3, but that's a fact of life. But many people would pay for non-DRM high quality material that they can put on several players or computers they own. eMusic and Amazon Music proved that.
You can never really STOP piracy, but by making paid downloads more favorable to the consumer, you can slow it down. It's really annoying to buy a download then realize it only works on one or two players and authorized for one or two computers, due to a restrictive format.
I sometimes still buy and rip stuff(yes I still buy DVDs and CDs), due to getting sick of these online download places telling me when and how I can use a purchased download. It may be more convenient these days to download, but I don't like jumping through hoops just to use the downloaded content.
If it happens, my Zune will be up for sale quick. Keep your hands off my damn files.
Very disturbing news to say the least. I have EyeTV on my Mac and it records digital streams from NBC perfectly. Okay, the only show I watch on NBC is Law & Order, but what happens if I get amnesia tomorrow, thereby forgetting I'm an Apple user and buy a Zune out of sheer ignorance? Does all that content that I legally converted to work on my iPod just go poof— oh, wait a second, wait a second, a little angel is telling me that the Zune doesn't work with Macs. Never mind.
Pimps forever!
i wish they did! i love my zune! i just wish it worked on my Mac (or linux)
And so the cycle continues - somebody posts a bunch of "facts" on the internet (because everything on the internet is true), that has no backing other than "a friend of a friend has a cousin who lives nextdoor to somebody that works as a cashier at the NBC gift store, and they cannot be wrong". And of course, it is in the NYT, which is the epitome of integrity. Next the rabid anti-MS fanboys (a.k.a. Apple fanboys) come out of the woodwork saying "See, this is proof Microsoft is pure evil".
People like Clak say it is a "vast MS-wing conspiracy" to keep the myth quiet by denying it, and when it is implemented and shipped then everybody will be screwed except, of course, those "enlightened" Apple users. Microsoft never does these things, but it is fodder for them to have something new at the moment to scare people.
And it all ends with Apple including something like this in their DRM system a few years from now, where it is the best thing ever, and only helps Apple as a company make more money so they can show the evil NBC (those defecting trators) how foolish they were to defy The All Mighty Jobs.
Let us praise all the Apple patents, DRM, closed systems, defective products (laptop fans, monitors that do not have the color depth they tout, iPods with a 2 year life span), missing Leopard drivers, forcing you to upgrade every year, and so on, and so on. But somebody writes a rumor, and Microsoft is EVIL, EVIL I tell you.
I am a Mac user.
I respect bill gates.
Seriously, fanboys sometimes make me ashamed to be a mac user.
@Nohone
Post of the day.
@Haikibutsu
Honest, level-headed Apple users, like yourself, are all part of the same tech loving community of geeks as the rest of us. People like clak & Co. are just corporate shills and attack dogs who live through brand names and logos.
They are the white trash of the tech world.
@Haikibutsu
"I am a Mac user. I respect bill gates. Seriously, fanboys sometimes make me ashamed to be a mac user."
You are a pussy, my friend.
@fred
"They are the white trash of the tech world."
You know, all this time, ALL THIS TIME, I thought I was superior as a Mac user, until you made that comment, fred.
So you know what, fred? You win. I will act inferior from now on, okay? Happy? I'll dump my Mac for a PC and install Vista and viruses and the Zune marketplace. I won't be a sheep anymore. From this day forward, I'll be one of the underdogs with ninety percent market share. Yes, I will download WMA music and Xvid and FLAC and Vorbis for no particular reason at all. I'll be sure and run Windows Geniune Advantage every chance I get and return my multiple Xboxes as they get the Red Rings of Death, happily and without complaint.
And you know why? No one has a right to buy expensive gadgets or computers and feel good about it. In fact, I will petition BMW to stop making cars and for Rolex to stop making watches and Versace to stop making clothes. Hell, First Class can kiss my ass. I'm riding Coach from now on. And I'm moving to the Ghetto. And buying some crack. And I'm giving away my pony. No one deserves a pony.
Happy now?
I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders
God I hate that joke. It is impossible to do! I think we should praise somebody who can throw something and miss the ground, ocean surface, etc.
And people develop the viruses, Microsoft just doesn't let them in. The only reason Windows machines can be plagued with viruses is because they hold the majority of the PC market. A bigger attack base will bring more attack attempts.
This post has been lengthened for far too long. No more after this man....pushing everyone off the page.
Clack, your stupid.
Two things...
First, I don't see how people can be upset over companies and their business practices. If you don't like their practice, look elsewhere or suck it up. Companies are out there to make money. So what with the fanboys comments and stuff, so fucking stupid, can't anyone at this site post something intelligent?
Second, some intelligent food for actual conversation rather than people bashing or company bashing or fucking whatever... DRM for music seems to be going by the wayside. Given current trends, it would seem that NBC is missing the picture. This is beginning to sound like a case for the courts again to rule whats fair use - seems to be setting up for yet another new VCR in the digital age ruling....
@Clak
I have no problem with the scenario that you described. Neither should NBC!! I think they are going after DVD rips that are all over the net. That content is a little different. That's the content that Zune Marketplace, iTunes and Unbox are trying to replace. What NBC seems to be talking about is looking for a way to make sure that users of certain devices have to get the content from one of those providers. It's a mess, I see that. But I can't believe people are so anti-DRM when they know darn well that people are getting the hi-end content for FREE. They are addicted to it and they feel special cause they take the risk and download it. Now they are mad because some of the content providers are trying to stop it...at least in some areas. Q.
@Clak
The problem is you believe that quote by Steve, it is one of the biggest, crap-laden quotes I have ever heard. Steve does not want an open DRM system where people can play music bought off any store on iPods, and they don't want music bought off their store playable on any device. Apple has has many, many opportunities to open up their DRM system (FairUse I believe it is called). They have had 5 years and 10 days (Wikipedia says the store launched on April 28, 2003) to license their DRM system. I remember people trying to license their system only to be turned down. iPods have a chip to play WMA purchased off of other stores, but they go out of their way to disable it. If he wants "the best alternative for consumers", then why has this not been done? Microsoft licenses their DRM system, it is available on many devices (not the iPod, and granted not the Zune, either [actually it is there, just with different license keys]) and many platforms. I can download an SDK to build applications that play protected music (even Zune marketplace purchases), but yet, Apple remains closed.
He does not even follow his own words with protection free music. I can go to Amazon and find many more unprotected MP3s than are available on iTunes. The labels are willing to license to Amazon, why does Apple not want all the available unprotected MP3s on iTunes? There are some, but why is Apple applying this arbitrary restriction?
That quote is only paying lip service to what people really want, but they fail to produce. In politics it is called pandering - and Steve Jobs would be a good politician, promising everything, but failing to deliver.
@Jordan
"Clack, your stupid."
It's "Clak" and it's "YOU'RE" stupid, not "your." Trust me, contractions are your friend.
Yo momma so fat, her cereal bowl came with a lifeguard
@Nohone
My eyes glazed over most of the stuff you wrote. It just reeked of rabid fanboyism, but then my eyes fell on the following statement and my eyes just exploded:
"I can go to Amazon and find many more unprotected MP3s than are available on iTunes."
Oh, no shit, Sherlock!
I'm totally blind as I type this, but are you really this stupid? Listen closely: The music companies are giving Amazon DRM-free music so that they can kill iTunes! iTunes has shown them how to sell digital music, but Steve Jobs won't allow them to raise the prices on their music. The music companies have even admitted that they want to kill iTunes. Look up Doug Morris.
Their plan is as follows.
1) Give DRM-free music to Amazon
2) Kill iTunes
3) Remove DRM-free music from Amazon
4) Jack up prices
5) Profit!
Get it? Thanks for blinding me, you dumb bastard.
We've had DRM in Windows for years. The most common format of music on an iPod is stolen—Steve Ballmer
Wouldn't it be easier to just remove all music from iTunes if they wanted to kill it???
@Luis
"Wouldn't it be easier to just remove all music from iTunes if they wanted to kill it???"
Universal has already threatened to remove its music from iTunes.
They have an At-Will contract with Apple, which means they can pull their content whenever they see fit. Now is not the right time for them to do it however because, first of all, they make too much money from iTunes, as Doug Morris, the CEO of Universal admitted in an interview:
"We were just grateful that someone was selling online. The problem is, he (Steve Jobs) became a gatekeeper. We make a lot of money from him, and suddenly you’re wearing golden handcuffs. We would hate to give up that income."
And secondly, no viable alternative has materialized with Amazon. According to the latest statistics, not that many people have migrated from iTunes yet. So no they can't defect from iTunes right now without killing themselves in the process.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/05/universal-confirms-non-renewal-of-itunes-contract/
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
Nobody can stop a pirate. arrr
you will all remember this as the time you almost caught Captain bi0hazard
This rumor has already been denied by the Zune team:
http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2008/05/07/just-so-no-one-gets-the-wrong-idea.aspx
Seriously? Explain to us how they would manage to even differentiate between pirated and non-pirated. Go ahead, I'll wait.
There is nothing illegal about recording Battlestar on your MediaCenter or Vista Ultimate PC. You can then also legally copy this over to your Zune (in fact the Zune software will even transcode this for you into Zune format!). So how, do you propose, for the software or NBC to tell if you paid for it off their marketplace, or recorded it at home? Both are perfectly legit and legal. Likewise, Many download the shows using a torrent app, which are many times recordings from TiVo's or Media Center type boxes, and as such, there is no way either to tell if you copied that file from your recording PC, or from someone on an illegal bitorrent.
This is a very slippery slope and not something MS is interested in getting into - there is no reason to even try, it wouldn't make them any money, and only serve to drive away customers.
Granted, I'm sure taking a comment from some PR lackey at a media giant knows what they are talking about when it comes to technology, and I am sure that MS would be the ones who have no idea about development of this.
The problem is that from Universal's stand point any sort of "format shifting" is money being stolen from their pocket. I can't remember who it was but one of these executives has said that they want you to pay each time you want to access the same content. So, if you buy the DVD they want you to pay for the download. Fair use to many of them is stealing.
And I would like to ask who do you believe. A high executive at Universal or a Zune blogger/employee? Unless the NYT screwed up I would say that something unsavory is going on.
I think the runmor was true and they are now retracting it due to negative press.
LOL! I meant RUMOR.
They can make this work. And if it works for the Zune, it will come to windows media player, and if it comes to wmp in will come to be very integrated in Windows, and then I will fully switch to Apple or even linux.
Makes me wanna puke what NBC and MS are trying to do to their customers...
Yes, because a plan to cease Piracy is an act against consumers...
[/Sarcasm]
I don't know why you guys feel as the victims if Anti-piracy policies go into effect, you know from the beginning what you are doing, don't try to switch the issue here...
...yeah. I really should get back to my OSx86 install now.
2Jimmyy Every attempt to cease piracy has led to limiting what the consumer can do with his own files. The only way to stop piracy is to have a trustworthy human check every bit of data thats on our computers, until they find this mysterious man, stopping piracy will be impossible.
Jimmy, you do realize that it's impossible for this technology to decipher things I've ripped legally from my own DVDs from stuff I've illegally stolen off BitTorrent, right? It's infringing upon my rights.
Probably because it's a FILTER. THAT. SEARCHES. THROUGH. YOUR. SHIT. That's an act against consumers if I've ever heard one. It's basically saying "You're all a bunch of criminals, so we need this filter in place on every single pmp/computer/car stereo etc. because we can't trust you to use this machine and be honest." Isn't that kind of like saying "I'm going to tie up your hands you filthy fucking criminal, because you may decide to steal something from my store!"
You know how sometimes, but only sometimes, the shit you get with DRM ends up not working even though you paid for it? What happens when the FILTER ends up not working? Do they pay you when they accidently filter "The Office" folder that contains all your business files because it had the words "The Office" in it and has roughly the same file size? Or maybe they'll just make a list of everything you have and review it to make sure you don't have anything illegal!
I'M PRETTY SURE THATS THE ISSUE HERE, NOT THAT EVERYONE WANTS FREE CONTENT (I do though, so fuck you).
My exact sentiments rp. This is just like government eavesdropping on telephones. Ill-f**king-legal without a warrant. Just try me Microsoft. When i saw this post I was about to prepare to unleash all hell (How? I don't know, I can't possibly have an effect on Microsoft, but you get the idea) on Redmond.
hopefully it will only look at video and music, but once they raise the security level and says " wait! these pictures! they look like copyrighted material! let's erase "family vacation in Disney folder"!
at least you Jimmyy are ok with it, feel free to buy yourself a Zune and pay for some NBC shows...
i wouldn't mind DRM like Itunes ACC format or the current music copyright protection on the zune store (for most of the music).
I just hope they add video as one of the perks to being a zune pass member...
This is just false. Engadget stop spreading false rumors. See zuneinsider.com
This is pretty low - even by Microsoft's standards. What's next, Vista will start looking for pirated applications and end up deleting itself?
thats whats scary! i mean yeah you really shouldnt pirate, but come on! wheres our privacy?
"We have seen some chatter in the blogosphere over the last 24 hours around a couple of posts speculating about what Zune may or may not do in terms of putting content filtering features directly into the Zune family of devices in future releases.
We know you guys are following this discussion closely, and wanted to be absolutely clear on this issue:
We have no plans or commitments to implement any new type of content filtering in the Zune devices as part of our content distribution deal with NBC.
We think some folks in the industry were expressing hopes for how the entire industry, not just Microsoft, would come to look at content distribution, and some speculation has ensued. Again, no plans are in place toward this end." - Cesar Menendez (Zune Employee) zuneinsider.com
"You know, I don't believe this Microsoft spokesperson who is going around saying the NBC spokesman misspoke. "
Rough translation:
DAMN IT! Im not going to let my chance to do my part to be a good Apple shill and bash Microsoft go that eaisly.
I'm going to call this guy a liar. I have no proof to say he is, but I love Apple, and I'm attacking in the name of the Steve...clak clak clak clak clak clak!!!!!!!!!!
give it a rest. Your circle jerk died.
So why isn't it sick that Best Buy or Target charges you for DVDs? Using your logic it's against your rights to pay for content. Do you that a five disc set costs 40 bux or more to make? Are you that insane? How come you aren't pushing for DVDs at the stores to be sold at cost? Q.
Geeze.Can you say sketchy?
If this isn't true the headline needs to be altered.
Good luck with that.
The headline has a question mark "?" signifying that the information is in question. In other words it is a rumor, but NBC makes good on their threats. Like when they removed their content from itunes. This shady content filter may be how they got microsoft on board with the shows.
If I remember correctly, NBC left the itunes store because apple would only charge customers $2.00 and NBC wanted a larger price so they could make more money. Now NBC is in bed with microsoft selling the same shows for $2.00 (160 MS points). That makes absolutly no sense, unless this content filter was part of the deal. Who knows. It wouldn't be the first shady thing microsoft has done to annoy its customers. Microsoft is just make a crappy product (zune) worse by added a content filter.
Why have a question mark? There is no longer a question. The rumor is untrue and the headline is definitely false.
The movie industry needs to learn from the music industry.
I'm just imagining how that conversation went between Apple and NBC:
NBC: We want you to filter what goes on people's iPods
Apple: *Blank Stare, brief silence* You've gotta be f*ing kidding me
NBC: No, no really. Look all we want you to do is make sure that your customers are tied down a little bit tighter. That way, it'll be easier for us to bend them over when we raise the prices.
Apple: Why don't YOU bend over so that we can get you to run to the door a little faster