It's been a
controversial decision, but it looks like the
OLPC XO has completed its
transition from revolutionary education project to just another
tiny Windows laptop with a
useless keyboard -- albeit one with a pleasantly whimsical design. Yep, it's official: Microsoft and OLPC just put out a joint press release saying that XP-loaded XOs will be available starting in August or September, with some countries to get the machines as soon as next month. Users will get all the regular functionality of XP -- it's basically the same build as on the Eee and other ultraportables -- but Microsoft's spent over a year developing specialized drivers for the XO's various features like e-book mode, the writing pad, and camera. (We're pretty certain that doesn't include mesh networking, but WiFi is supported.) XP is too big for the built-in 1GB flash chip, so it'll come preloaded on a 2GB SD card, leaving just about 1.5GB free total for apps and media. It seems like Microsoft is thrilled about this partnership, but it's a not going to make NickNeg's
search for new vision at the top any easier. As for Sugar? You'll still be able to get it, but we have a sinking feeling about its future. Demo video after the break.
posted May 15th 2008 8:02PM
The default OS didn't seem to intuitive from the videos I saw anyway.. not that XP will be much better for people not well-versed in computers but.. who knows?
my coworker has one he's brought it a few times to paly with. I think it was pretty fuckign awesome actually. drag and drop programming programs... err. etc. it was sweet.
reminded me of the 'icon' computers I had back in public school int he 80's.
xp is just stupid. for what this thing is.
what, does it come preloaded with fuckign pinball?
the xo software was cool not for the OS, but what was loaded ON IT.
@dj-kenpo: I have an XO, and find Sugar and the XO software to be fairly obtuse. Simple things like file handling seem overly complex. I didn't get too far with most of the bundled apps because the interface was so tortuous, and my trackpad would wonk out every half hour or so, rubberbanding to one side of the desktop over and over. Strangely, this never happened under ubuntu/xfce.
I hope that WinXP has modified UI to compensate for the ~200 dpi display. This was a killer issue when using Xfce.
I formatted an 8gb usb drive to fat32 in XP sp3 today and it took 4 seconds. I went home and did the same thing with Vista x64 sp1 and it took 15 minutes!!!!!! WTF? I even smoked a cigarette.
Wasn't sp1 suppose to fix crap like this?..and whats with every vista service need to connect to the internets?
Did he say, "...our team is fuckers"?
*cue Star Wars Episode III clip*
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....
Obligatory:
DO NOT WANT
Haven't Third World Countries Suffered Enough
They will see first hand a 'WINDOWS CRASH ERROR"
Sweet, an inexpensive tablet pc
it's not a touch screen
why did you even think of that?
I prefer Windows myself, but it's sad to see such a great project like this be sidetracked by Microsoft having to force its corporate greed into the action - sure, they may not make a lot of money off this specific deal, but if everyone learns on Windows they're more likely to use/buy it later on.
I just don't think Windows is necessary for something like this - it's for kids to learn to use computers, to do basic word-processing and "educational" games, and maybe a little scripting - it doesn't need XP, nor are there any advantages to having XP besides Microsoft getting them while they're young. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.
You're not suggesting tormenting these poor children with Vista are you?
no, of course he's not...
where the heck did you get that idea?
Of course, if Apple did this, it would be from the bottom of their f*cking hearts wouldn't it? Nooooo way that would be a "greedy" attempt to undercut competitors in developing nations.....
It is sad how anything that a big company like MS does is portrayed as brainwashing or evil. Frankly, I can't think of anything better than for lots of people in developing countries to be using whatever OS most of us, use.... WINDOWS! Why do they have to have some crippled version OS to "learn off" rather than the full thing? Heck maybe a lot of kids will "just being learning off these" like you say, but then what? Maybe some of them want to go further, why should they be limited like that? I know the hardware itself is limited, but why constraint it even further???
You could very well say the same thing with OS X, since that is a very capable platform that many people use. I don't really care who is doing it, but when you decide that just because it is MS taking the initiative to help equalize global divisions (even if they are expanding their future base off of this) other people should have less than you are just a jerk.
Actually, Steve Jobs offered them OS X for free. They rejected it because it as closed source. And NOW the go to XP. Fucking hypocrites.
As much as I personally prefer Windows, OS X is better for this kind of thing.
Phoenix, where did you read that?
Also, I hope you realize that Steve wasn't doing that from the bottom of his heart either. He was doing it to promote and expand OS X to get a larger install base and head start in developing countries.
And exactly how is OS X better? If you need a $1000 computer to run it at the bare minimum, how the heck was that going to work for these?
Also, Apple will never put OS X on anything that wasn't made by apple.
It was on Engadget.
And the reason I'm saying it's better than XP for this type of thing is because its easier to use for people who aren't "power users" than XP. And it's not like they're going to be adding third-party apps and games in the developing world.
http://education.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1027485%3ABlogPost%3A32732
"Interestingly, Steve Jobs had offered Mac OS X free of charge for use in the OLPC program but the offer was declined."
That's the most... reputable source I can find, but it was certainly on an article on Engadget.
In pretty much every article about the OLPC and Windows on Engadget someone mentions it
@ Shadow:
Well considering a version of osx runs on the iPhone, you definitely do NOT need a 1000 dollar computer to run it.
And if it does run on the iPhone, it seems well suited for the olpc.
God forbid they learn how to use the OS that most of the world does.
IT professionals are objective use the best tool for the job. Linux is the best tool for the job in a circumstance where you want a customisable (kids don't want a start bar? They don't have to have one!), free (as in beer, and as in freedom, good for people who HAVE NO MONEY), light-weight (min. sys. requirements of Linux vs Windows? already they've had to include extra storage in the OLPC just to fit XP), open (maybe kids can learn to write their own software, and hey look, an entire operating system's worth of code is already there to learn from), robust (have you ever tried to run Windows with no swap file?), technologically advanced (automated mesh WiFi networking anyone? Does XP support this? - no)
In short, this is just Microsoft sticking their grubby fingers into everything yet again. They know that Linux is better for this task, and that's exactly why they've had to push so hard to get XP onto the OLPC.
Amen. I've got an XO and I've played with Sugar. Ok, "played" isn't correct. I've installed Opera, Flash etc from command line. It ain't fun. I'm not impressed at all. Here's my reasoning:
1. When these kids visit civilization, it won't be run on Linux/Sugar
2. Think WinXP is tough, try teaching a kid CLI and YUMing. Now multiply that teaching by 100 kids.
3. Before I put my XO away, the WiFi was lame (no good WAP support) and mesh was worthless in urbia.
4. There are ooodles more apps and games for WinXP than Linux/Sugar.
The only reason you had difficulty with the command line was because your computer usage habits typically only involve clicking on dialogues.
If you had learnt from the start to be "multi-talented" with respect to entering commands into a computer (via keyboard, mouse, GUI or commandline) then it would have been a non-issue.
In short, you don't know how to use a command line, and that's fair enough. But what you're assuming is that using the command line is hard. It isn't, it's just different. An alternative.
I think the some of the countries these are going to would benefit more-so from clean-water supply, food, and protected sex than a laptop.
but how would they read your comment?
Why dont you bother reading about the olpc project before criticizing it?
First off, these are sold to developing countries like Brazil and Libya, not the Congo. These countries (if youve ever traveled outside the US, you might know this) have food and water, but see an attractive opportunity here to do something novel with their educational system.
Personally I welcome windows to the olpc. These kids dont need to be put into a tech ghetto with linux and the administrators of these education programs should make all configuration decisions. They shouldnt feel threatened by either the OSS or Redmond crowd. They should pick the best tool for the job. Of course the OS holy warriors cant stand choice.
My thoughts? The whole world? Neat website? I'll take two!
So, this may be the cheap e-book reader I've been waiting for? The Sony & Kindle are still so pricey, but the technology for the OLPC e-book mode sounds pretty promising. Putting Windows on it could put it over the top. Wonder what it will do to the pricing....
dwr50 say:
Greed is the CAUSE...
Advertising is the EFFECT...
Open Source is the ANSWER... Amen.
is there a reason why you have posted this in multiple articles?
The word of the Lord..
Chip say:
Competition is the CAUSE...
Value is the EFFECT...
STFU is the ANSWER... Amen.
Now quit spamming
Chip:
Yes, just see what competition did to Vista.
That's one hell of an OS!
Or was that OS of hell? Meh
Am I the only one that is interested in getting Windows XP to boot off of an SD card? Why isn't there a way for me to use this when I'm trying to fix my clients' FUBARed PCs?
Look up BartPE. I haven't put BartPE on a usb flash drive yet, but I know it's been done. I'll be building a usb flash drive version in a few weeks and will blog about it, so if you are still empty handed in 1.5 months, run another google search and you should be able to find my post.
you can do that. tons of ee pc owners have....
Ugh.
FAIL.
FAIL
two fails make a WIN
this is great, i mean some of these kids might end up working at a job where computer knowledge is required. And many of the computers they will work will have Windows XP or Vista. I can tell that because i've been to some third world countries.
It warms my heart to know children all over the world are to discover Microsoft Sam and forever enjoy vocalised obscenities from a computer.
Microsoft: what do you want to corrupt today?
Why is this so bad
because it doesn't fit the situation in anyway. xp doesn;t come with the sort of software that would make this laptop useful...
too hard to explain. if you put the 2 versions next to each other you'd know right away. having played with one at work.
it's not for you or me, and you have to kep that in mind.
I have the XO and of course WinXP.
What do you mean XP doesn't come with useful software? Heck and if you don't find it useful, download any of the ubermillions of apps and games for it. Granted, the XO comes with a few apps that are kinda cool, but some aren't ready for primetime. The browser sucks and doesn't even have flash. Full touchpad is disabled for most everything. No touch click. WAP doesn't even work right.
For those equating MS to greed, wake up. MS is selling. NickNeg is buying. If you had a widget to sell would you really NOT sell it to benefit kids? MS is dang near GIVING XP away so OLPC has a choice for their customers. Choice always benefits the consumer. I'd also love to see OSx or even full Ubuntu on my XO.
You download tons of programs that make it useful... and take lots and lots of space and computing cycles ... this is a low power pc (a lower power pc?) Take the equivalent hardware and try to install Windows and Office 2003... How much space is it there? Can you safely install more software to it?
It's safe to assume that this is an issue simply because (and i know you remember) this was an issue six years ago with six years old (or even more) hardware.
Linux was the alternative because not only there are tons of apps for Linux that work quite well with even older or more limited hardware, but because, given the nature of the project, there could have been tons more.
Affordable Software != Free Software
The guy on the vid is Borat's gay cousin.
Linux leads to anger...
anger leads you to going back to Windows...
Windows...LEADS TO SUFFERING!!
Does nobody stop and think about the repercussions this will have on the world. The people this laptop will be distributed to are poor, (dirt poor to be exact) what are they going to use these laptops for? To pay for their XBOX live subscription or maybe to pay their car payment? NO they will begin to use this as a tool to scam people, to write viruses, to maliciously attack companies to try to get something because they have nothing. Look at it this way if you were to put a loaf of bread in front of a starving child and look away for a minute you should expect to turn around and not see the bread. This is the same thing, this is only going to unleash a whole new world of chaos on the internet. How about we take the money were spending on this and buy them some food? or how about build them a school? so that maybe one day they can build their own internet?
Just my .02 cents.
If I gave a loaf of bread to a starving child, yes, I would expect him to eat it.
If I give a child a computer, I will expect him to use it.
Giving a child a computer is not giving him instant access to write viruses and create chaos.
I have a computer. I am not poor compared to third world countries. Yet the reason I do not write viruses and create scams is not because I don't need money. It is because (1) I don't know how and (2) My morals prevent me from doing so. By saying someone in a third-world country is guaranteed to do these things you are implying (1) somehow he will have the knowledge to do so and (2) because he is poor, he is without morals.
I agree that this whole idea is probably wrong. Food and education in working skills is more important than computer skills for many. Now, in a country where the economy is sound for the most part but still lacking expertise in computers this makes sense. But in the typical idea of a "third world country", I fail to see the purpose.
But it is stupid to say that simply providing access to computers to poor people instantly opens the gate to chaos. Forgive me if I misunderstand, but it really seems like you are accusing poorer people of being without scruples.
And I'd really like to see the coin for two-tenths of a cent.
just your $0.02, you mean...
Usually when i am tempted to reply to someone's comment i decide not to because most people only say stupid things to get people to react. But your reaction is just so completely askew that i pretty much have to, especially since you seem to really believe in what you are saying.
It makes you sound like the kind of person that hates everybody that is different just because they are afraid to be themselves. Like the gay father in American Beauty. Or a racist farmer.
Which you probably are not, so if you don't want people to think those things about you it would be a wise idea to stop claiming that all poor people are criminals and their only motivation is to take away your precious belongings. They are PEOPLE. they have FEELINGS. just like (i guess) you.
Your 2¢ are racist and ignorant.
But I repeat myself.
Matt,
As was mentioned above, your complaints have been answered for YEARS. Try READING on the OLPC website before accusing folks of NOT considering your complaints.
There are lots of places you can send your money to third-world-countries if YOU wish... use them. Some of the rest of us do that... then also want to do more than give them a fish, we want to educate them how to fish, and read, and record their history, their hopes, etc, to search the internet on how to make a solar oven, or a waterwheel, or maybe correspond with another village to find out how to cook (fill in local flora and fauna), what flora and fauna can be safely used for local medicines, how to market their local products to specialized first world markets,... and live in a world that has computers and internet, like you do.
Naa, you just want to give them some handouts of food to soothe your guilty conscious because you regularly pig out at some $20 a plate meal, or use $5 in gas to go two blocks to the quick stop and buy garbage that you have to then pay more money for a fancy gym spa to sweat off your fat gut... then keep them in a tech ghetto so they don't pick up your job in outsourcing.
As for Sugar vs XP... Let them load up flash-XP. Nick should have spent more time streamlining and making more logical a regular small Linux distro, then adding the neat gadgets.... and some REAL educational items like flashcards, a simple text/e-text reader, a simple spreadsheet, etc, that are already out there.
BTW, I'm currently working on updating my G1G1 XO to the 703, and likely do some experiments with small flash-media friendly distros like Puppy or Feather.
how disappointing.
OMG! OLPC supposed to be an open computer, a way to help children in developing world, not another market to sell Windows ;(
This is a quote from official OLPC website(http://www.laptop.org/en/laptop/software/):
"XO is built from free and open-source software. Our commitment to software freedom gives children the opportunity to use their laptops on their own terms. While we do not expect every child to become a programmer, we do not want any ceiling imposed on those children who choose to modify their machines. We are using open-document formats for much the same reason: transparency is empowering. The children—and their teachers—will have the freedom to reshape, reinvent, and reapply their software, hardware, and content"
How does this apply to Windows? Software freedom, transparency, open formats... Does not sound like Microsoft at all. It's a shame that they forgot original ideology. I only hope that Linux/Sugar will still be developing and improving.
There is no way I'm going to donate money to OLPC now. I was actually thinking of this but to my opinion I will help kids more by protecting them from Windows.
P.S. Why the movie played on the laptop is in Russian language???
"There is no way I'm going to donate money to OLPC now."
If you hadn;t donated money by now, you were never going to in the first place.
FAIL for lying.
Mike, students have to pay for bills, rent and buy food. I don't exactly have enough money to make any impulse decisions. If I want to buy anything or donate money to charity I have to think twice.
LOL, so the beast just gets bigger.
OLPC and WinXP - Microsoft gets yet another piece of the pie. They practically have the whole thing.
Can't say I'm surprised, though.
Phasing out XP? What?
Seems like Microsoft wants these kids to grow up using Windows so that in the future (if they actually have any) they'll end up being one of their customers. But seriously, Windows is sort of the de facto OS for many companies and businesses (or probably the world because they have like over 90% of the OS market) so maybe they've looked into it that way.
Have they fixed the rubber membrane keyboard problems yet?
That jerky vid from the webcam did not look like 30fps to my eye.
The loss of mesh networking is a big one, IMO:
http://www.olpcnews.com/hardware/wireless/solar_802-11s_mesh_repeater.html
The video on that page is a good description.
The hardware (and colours) are ultra cool. The monochrome display in the sun is superb. The form-factor is overall, great.
Notced this:
http://laptop.org/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml
USB: Three Type-A USB-2.0 connectors; up to 1A power supplied (total);
So that would mean the USB ports could possibly put out less than 500mA at 5V if two or three particularly current-sucking USB items (scanner and HD in addition to low-current mouse) are connected?
I like this:
Humidity: UL certification planned to IP42 (perhaps higher) when closed, the unit should seal well enough that children walking to and from school need not fear rainstorms and dust;
It's a shame there website still talks about 'final hardware' here in parts when the hardware is selling..
I would like more info/pricing on the solar charger.
I have two XO's running Sugar from the old G1G1 program; does this mean that I can get the XP image to run off the SD reader? It looks like I would have to reflash the BIOS. I wonder if they will use mesh networks...
Is that a white MacBook on the desk in the background?
That was not a very smart choice to use Windows on the OLPC XO. What would happen if it breaks (crashes, BSOD, etc..) in a developing country that does not have access to technical support resources that other countries have? Also, Mac OS X is much better for a learning environment (speaking from experience), has fewer errors, and has more possibilities. However, linux would probably be the best option, with many respects.
The world wide hike planned should start in north American schools.
Partnerships and local contracts will be a must.
High schools especially.
I'd rather windows, but I'd never five it to the kids. They should at least remove the branding.
Hm.. the idea that they can use XP is nice, as that's what most of the rest of the world uses...
what really saddens me, is that this means that a lot of the innovation of the OLPC is gone... I mean, what he was showing was standard stuff, that any linux machine could do...
wheres the mesh network, where the edutainment and other educational programs ?
Do you know that chinese proverb:
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for one day,
teach a man how to fish and you'll feed him for the rest of his life.
The original OLPC was about giving people fishing rods and maps where they can find a lake. Now Microsoft is in the boat and they will charge you for every single crank you make on the reel.
That's where all the innovation has gone, who needs improvement if you can have profit. I hate this company so much you can't imagine.
Well thanks to the great multi-billion dollar lobby work another effort to help mankind was stopped dead in it's tracks by a big company. When will people realize that you can't actually eat stock certificates. How will Africa get a better education when all the bastards in the industry think about making a profit off of them. That's like feeding a homeless guy and expecting him to get a job just to repay me.
XP is a ridiculous choice and was only made so OLPC users and their communities would not get in touch with Linux and F/OSS. God forbid poor black/brown people learning something for free from the donations the generous white man has given them. I can only ask myself what the fuck is wrong with this planet? Since when did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, turn into a marketing decision?
Mark my words, one day the world will end in a nuclear fire ... and it will be a marketing decision.
Tell us what you really feel.
-Off topic
Is that a Macbook on the table in the background. Funny how M$ developers often seem to use an Macbook
Any integrity that OLPC XO had, has now vanished. OLPC are now just another Windows laptop producer. But I'm sure Steve Balmer will be rubbing his greasy hands together with the prospect of infiltrating the Third World markets. How does that insect sleep at night?
Cuteness factor after installing xp = 0
.....and after Vista (which will never happen I know) = -10
but will it run starcraft?
HAHA mesh networking along with windows...isnt that good...its a recipe for disaster..
Well, I'm definitely NOT going to buy-one-give-one now.
It went from revolutionary to capitalistic in a single keystroke.
Why cant some people see this? They just made Microsoft a monopoly for the next generation.
Before you knock Windows for browbeating OLPC or before you knock OLPC for "selling out", check out this excerpt from a BBC article re: the Windows OS integration:
"The options afforded by Windows will be welcomed by the governments of countries, such as Egypt, which has insisted on being offered the operating system before signing up to the scheme."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7402365.stm
I have my own opinion on the matter but neither Windows or OLPC seem to deserve the "blame".
What a waste, they took a perfectly pure initiative and made it into a MS marketing mockery. The PC's aren't powerful enough to run today’s windows applications, or have enough capacity to host today’s windows applications. So you've now removed the "usefulness" to the project and its goals to facilitate M$ and their fuckries!
Sugar is dead now I guess, but then again, so is XP. Look at Engaget's other headlines to confirm that one.
I love how people constantly take jabs at Microsoft. Wonder how many of the Microsoft bashers here understand that MS gives away billions a year? How many colleges get free copies of MS apps that they turn around and sell to students?
I bet most people didn't know that Bill Gates gave away about 23~26 billions dollars of his own money to Haiti (poorest country in western hemisphere) to fix their border issues or the number of schools he has funded construction for.
Will MS give away those copies of WinXP? They give it away to money hungry colleges. So, I guess they wouldn't have any issues with a third world country. MS are saints compared to companies like apple. How often do you see apple in the news for installing state of the art computers for free in schools? If you can answer "tons" to that question, you're a liar.
I figured this would happen. I know techy-IT types love unix variants and Mac users love OS X no matter what but I really think it is all about you like what you know. As an end user I can assure you that I find Windows much easier than unix variants because I simply have other things to do than learn and remember the pecularities of another operating system. The real reason that I like windows is:
- I don't have to learn anything (beyond basic file management) and I work 60+ hours a week on my core work now. I am so sick of using computers at the end of the week that I'd rather do something else than learn unix weirdness.
- my work is portable to any other machine I am likely to end up using in the event that I need to use another machine. This often happens, by the way, at least a couple of times a week.
I understand why many techies don't like windows/MS and all that. Actually I am, in a very real sense, a techy myself BUT my work isn't closely tied to the OS. In other words, like most people, I just need a computer that works with a minimum of extra learning.
I think that it would be very hard for any "small" enterprise to come up with an OS that is as end-user friendly as windows because of all the R&D that MS put into the interface (many thousands of engineer man years of work with lots of resources) and even if someone could, they would be giving up the extreme convenience of most other machines having the same OS.
OLPC is a noble cause. I'm glad they saw the light.
It's just another bloody run of the mill laptop, now, Why bother.
Sad. Truly sad how many people assume that a large portion of the world using Windows XP makes learning ON Windows XP a good idea. I could get into the nits of why this is untrue, but I think I'll just make a simple assertion that I expect to evaluate true (much like the others who I can't be arsed to name one-by-one): A child that learns to use a computer on a modern Linux system will be more productive, more knowledgeable, more versatile, and more able to accomplish what is demanded of him or her than any other platform's user, all other things being held equal.
You've got to give it to Microsoft, I did not think they would have the chops to interfere with the OLPC project, But alas they have succeeded, and for their own personal gain. They have stepped up to a new level of Evil.
I spoke to Khaled Hassounah at the last YourDIL event in SF. I wasn't particularly impressed with the device that he passed around. Seemed a bit too rinky dink. However, don't get me wrong the OLPC idea is a brilliant one.
One other issue that has been brewing in my mind for quite sometime now is: All these initiatives to help the world such as OLPC may look good on paper, but how is it actually helping people of indigenous cultures? So far it seems like these are nothing but hooks to promoting corporate brands in the "new" and "emerging" markets of the world, no?
My point is...why Windows XP? Why is OLPC aligning itself with Microsoft? Why not go the Open Source route with Linux, Open office, etc?
Hear That windonts is to bloated for it!!!
:)