Some analysts, PC makers express concern about netbooks
By Donald Melanson 
posted July 21st 2008 1:11PM
posted July 21st 2008 1:11PM
While some may say that netbooks have already jumped the shark, others in the industry are now expressing some real concern about the low-cost, low-power laptops and, as the New York Times reports, they're warning that they could cut into PC makers' already thin profit margins. What's more, that word doesn't only come from the expected doomsayer analysts, but from some top tier PC makers as well. That includes Fujitsu, who's senior director of mobile product management, Paul Moore, says, "We're sitting on the sidelines not because we're lazy. We're sitting on the sidelines because even if this category takes off, and we get our piece of the pie, it doesn't add up." That's a sentiment echoed by Sony, who's Stan Glasgow says simply that, "we are not looking at competing with Asus," although he adds that Sony is "investigating" what consumers want in a second PC. Even Dell, which is set to dip its toes into the netbook waters, seems a bit hesitant, with vice president of marketing Michael Tatelman saying he thinks the devices have "limited consumer appeal," and that they're good for a "30- to 90-minute experience," but not for more intensive tasks. Of course, that's all before any of them heard of the new world's cheapest laptop, so there's no telling how things may shake out now.
[Thanks, Penny]
[Thanks, Penny]
As a new owner of an Acer AspireOne, I can chime in with my opinion after using it for a few days.
It runs web applications very smoothly. Both the Firefox 2 and Opera 9.5. It plays DivX fine as well, although it won't play mkv at all (cpu too slow or storage too slow or both, most likely).
Keyboard is just fine. But the touchpad is way too small and therefore errors are frequent.
Screen looks fine... except for one thing, and it's a, uhm, a big one. You can't really use this thing for longer than half an hour to an hour at most. Your eyes will hurt and you'll get a migraine.
That's the kicker. The thing is great for occasional emailing and web browsing. Unless you connect it to a normal size monitor and mouse. At that point it can be used as an Internet station all day long. As for traveling, it's probably great for most people, unless you plan on spending considerable time (i.e. most of the evening) watching videos and browsing - the screen will get you. Also, it's not any lighter than my old Toshiba R100 so carrying a full size (but light) laptop is still probably the best idea. Overall, while these netbooks have enough power for most (but not all) things, there's a physical limit on how small you can make the screen before it's too small to be usable. And there's nothing to be done about that, other than some future foldable pull-out screen. Until then I don't see netbooks ever becoming more than a niche product.
I think industry f***ed up with web 2.0. Instead of focusing on a more tech powered, feature forward web, ie. immerse me in a better graphic experience. Don't funnel me threw a better wise ass "Ad" montages. I should be "VIDEO" chatting seamlessly on my fave blogs and web pages, oohing and ahhing at my graphic interaction web experience. As usual the adverts cut them selves off at the knees for their quick satisfaction of quota, and we all lose. Less options, less future.
Sorry just watched the movie "network" 1976
My livelihood consists of selling this technology to "mainstream" consumers. Asus, Acer and Dell all have it correct, as many of my fellow Engadgeteers do, as well. Joe and Jane Consumer does not use Photoshop, plays Solitare and not the latest games, reads his or her news while surfing the Internet, shops and does their banking online and does simple word processing, spreadsheets and balances their checkbook with Quicken or MS Money. At tax time, they use TurboTax or TaxCut.
They are looking for affordable and for function. Their keyboards must be able to enable them to type at a reasonable speed. Their Internet must be broadband speed and their computer cannot hold them up with limited resources.
Windows XP with 1GB or RAM is perfect. So is the Linux OS that comes with these machines. Instead of the experts like Fujitsu and Sony (both who really missed the boat on this one) crying sour grapes, thinking what consumers want. Fujitsu, you made a computer (U810 which I own, by the way) that you cannot type on and use the pointing device effectively. This is not a mainstream computer with your little 5.6 inch display and you have to purchase Bluetooth fold up keyboards and a Bluetooth mouse to be effective and yet, the 5.6 inch display is a severe eye strain. Sony, you small laptops are nice but they are expensive and your warranties suck.
Instead of the whining by these companies, they really need to either create a piece of equipment and price it for the masses or sit back and see how these companies do. To come out and bad mouth this technology before the machines hit the streets is stupid and irresponsible to the industry.
Based on your comments, the Dell E Slim which should be out in August might be a good alternative. Hopefully it will be priced much less than the Apple Air (starting at $1,800) and have what consumers desire, along with being a very light unit. Also, hopefully, unlike the Air, it will have a removable battery.
More vapor-ware promises by Dell. What would they rather sell $2000 Studio's and Latitude's or $400 UMPC's? I bet Mike Dell would vote for the former. A lot more profit in the $2000 one.
Rick wrote: More vapor-ware promises by Dell. What would they rather sell $2000 Studio's and Latitude's or $400 UMPC's? I bet Mike Dell would vote for the former. A lot more profit in the $2000 one.
Good point Rick...perhaps these manufacturers should realize and see what the mainstream want and they will see that from what they are purchasing. Dell might have to bite the bullet on per unit profits and make their money on volume. Retailers like me can make smaller profits on the hardware sales and make up for it on peripheral sales and services. We are already doing that since there is no money in the inventory of expensive laptops which go out of style every day and have razor thin commissions. I would rather purchase them on demand from Dell or Acer, sell it at our cost to my customers and make our living on peripherals and services.
Great points, Ranger! Hopefully these new netbooks and the new "e" series from Dell do more to assist the industry and truly address the consumer's requirements. It is 2008 and things SHOULD be getting smaller and better.
They're just moaning because people who just need a low-cost way to get onto the internet from a wireless hotspot are buying netbooks instead of a bloated laptop. The people who need desktop replacement laptops are still gonna buy them... It would be idiotic to think otherwise.
I love my Eee. It's perfect for me and I'm happy that netbooks are around to fill my need. I just hope they're not too dumbed down in the future like that world's cheapest piece of crap.
"The new computers, often called netbooks, have scant onboard memory. "
Of course they have scant onboard memory, 1GB max. This was dictated by the Great Satan himself, Steve Ballmer.
Small computers mean small profit. We don't want to panic the shareholders do we? HP, Dell, Fujitsu, etc., are more worried
If Sony, Fujuitsu, etc., can't figure it out maybe they should find another business to be in.
Ooooops! Dell, etc. are more worried about the bottom line than in the consumer.
No surprise there....
Wow I couldn't disagree with them more!
My parents have a laptop each. They aren't avid users of computers but my mom checks her banking and books holidays, surfs during the week. Whereas my dad checks his email and surfs things he likes during the week abit to. Not alot, but some.
Why shouldn't my parents have nice cheap laptops to use?
Screw your profit margins.
Now wait a minute... The price can only be as low as the manufacturers can afford to make them, so what's the problem?
If somebody (Asus?) is messing with the market by selling these things at a loss, it will ultimately catch up with them and they'll have to raise their prices to stay alive. Then everything will be equitable.
How else could this market situation come about? Given (roughly) the same costs for each manufacturer, prices for a product can only go so low.
I'm getting the MSI Wind or EEE PC 1000H. 10-12 inches to me is perfect for me. The smaller keyboard is fine for everyday use. I'm a non-gamer and non-power user. This WILL be my MAIN computer. Why would I want to spend more than 500 on a computer that will only use fire fox and word. Plus for 500 I get one that runs cool all the time and is under 3lbs.
These companies should worry, I'm not going to spend over 1600 dollars like I did on my last computer to type papers on. Its not worth the cash when everything I do now is going online. I was waiting for apple to come out with one of these subnotebooks but got disappointed with the Air. Now I'm thinking about buying a Linux wind and installing OS X for fun.
There is a shift in the demand and companies have to react. Now I might be spending 500 bucks every 1- 1.5 years. Which if you add up would be about what I would spend on a computer (1500-2000) that would last 3-4 years. They just have to make improvements each year to make me buy again. Maybe donate my old computer to someone that needs it.
I thought scat was sex + shit? Sick man.
just got my mom's three year old laptop, a Presario V2000 with a 64bit Turion processor, 1 gig Ram, a facelift after the hard drive crashed. Replaced hardrive and loaded Suse Linux 11.0 -couldn't get the onboard wireless working but got a PC wireless card working. I estimate 3-400 bucks for this laptop, zero for the OS, and 20 bucks for the PC card, now have a zippy 15inch widescreen laptop with Firefox, OpenOffice, and email for 300 bucks.
I will no longer give up 3000 per laptop like I did when I bought three Vaio's four years ago -they all died at the same time after their warranties died -coincidence? The ultraportable was beautiful, but made not so special by Windows. The middle laptop which was meant for video editing with Sony digital camcorders just wouldn't!!! Also the last Vaio gasps for air trying to show video or anything else it was designed to do! My Macbook Pro 15 inch squashes them all, and I am willing to pay for quality and features. I will never buy Sony again.
So we have a high end and a low end, leaving GM (Dell) and Ford (HP) and Chrysler (Gateway) scratching their heads.
Before you buy a new laptop, think about what your needs are and think about going Linux on 3 to 4 year old equipment -it'll run faster and smoother than you think, and will be dirt cheap.
This should drive all the big corporations to lower their costs to the consumer. Hopefully they come to realize nobody wants to spend outrages amounts of money for them to have massive profits, when all we need are casual computers such as Asus.
I almost got an Eee pc just for the hell of it. I have other real laptops of course, but it would be nice to have something super small for trips when you have limited use. Like he said 30-90 min sessions.
I didn't get one, I decided ro go for the the Fujitsu U1010, but I had to wait for the replacement model. In the end I couldn't justify it, I have a X61 tablet that is "almost ultraportable" and overlaps a U10!) too much.
Really, I just want a nice PMP with a browser. Or a better experience to get online with a nice phone + wifi on that phone. Those capabilities are out there, but they don't have the ease and style that Apple has with the iPhone/Touch. I don't own own the iPhone or Touch for little reasons, but the touch is becoming more and more tempting.
I think the companies just need better OS's with their cellphones.
It's more like, two companies aren't bothering getting into it, because there's no real profit in it, but they are doing more research into what people want from a second PC (besides price, obviously).
And let's be honest, would you really use an eeeWhatever for more than an hour or so?
What the fuck is with this comment system. That was a reply to someone, not a stand-alone comment.
I just can't imagine a netbook replacing my desktop or even a 'loaded' notebook. I see it a an additional mobile/portable device that will simply be useful for cloud computing and web/net use.... I can't imagine developing code on one longterm or even game playing... purely an accessory in my mind, larger than a smart phone but smaller than a notebook, and probably somewhere in the middle when it comes to actual use
I'll wait until the prices come down to 200-300 dollars.
The only reason why an EEEPC can't do something is shoddy programming.
Adding more RAM and running XP gives the little thing more power than the PC I was using 5 years ago to run Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, and a host of CAD programs.
I don't understand how it can be slow playing movies. Computer companies are giving the average consumer 10X the computer they need to do anything. Can anyone seriously say that the average person needs a quad core 6GB DDR3 system. The only reason why you need some of that power is the insane ammount of bloatware PC manufacturers add to a computer and garbage OS programming job Microsoft has done.
If I could run XP and all of my intensive applications on an AMD XP1800 with 512mb ram and a GF4 Ti. I think people can get by with an EEEPC as thier main computer.
I want to get one with an Atom to run basic CAD and 3ds Max while at school, but I can't find one single person in the intertubes that has actually tried it. I'd rather not buy blind to test it out...
and btw, I have a huge desktop at home that does all the heavy lifting.
"We're sitting on the sidelines not because we're lazy. We're sitting on the sidelines because even if this category takes off, and we get our piece of the pie, it doesn't add up."
I think he means that even if fujitsu go with the flow and create their own netbooks, the profit they will make from it wouldnt be enough to support the development of high end laptops.
so the development of high end laptop will slow down, thats their concern, now, are they asking people to stop buying netbooks? i dont think so, they are just telling the impact of these cheap laptops, they are not asking the consumer stop buying the cheap ones.
I've got an MSI Wind (UK "Advent" re-badge).
I've upped the memory to 2 Gb, put a 320 Gb drive in it, & installed OS X 10.5.4.
For a total spend of less than £400, I've got a 10" "MacBook Nano", which is faster than my old 1.67 GHz g4 iBook, & probably on a par with the 1st single core intel MacMini's.
Like many people I miss the old 12' powerbooks. So as I can't get a powerbook equivalent from Apple, I decided to configure one myself!
Now considering I put this together for under £400, I can kind of see why manufacturers aren't that happy!
Energy costs are rising like hell in Europe.. I can feel great leaving an MSI Wind or EEE idling while I do something else.. environmentally also.
Once I get one of these I have a feeling the 'main PC' of the house will only ever go on for video work or Photoshop..
“We’re sitting on the sidelines not because we’re lazy. We’re sitting on the sidelines because even if this category takes off, and we get our piece of the pie, it doesn’t add up,” said Paul Moore, senior director of mobile product management for Fujitsu."
Right...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/13/fujitsu-siemens-netbook-entry-gets-revealed/
"IDC ... is predicting that the category could grow from fewer than 500,000 in 2007 to nine million in 2012..."
By 2010 more like, if Intel can ship the silicon.
Talk about head-in-the-sand mentality.
The interests of the manufacturers (profits) are clashing with the interests of consumers (usefulness) here. It'll be interesting to see who comes out laughing: companies who cater to consumer needs, and benefit from new-found brand awareness, or dinosaurs who can't adjust to an evolving marketplace. Ok that last sentence kinda gives away my opinion...
I think that a huge number of people will find the Desktop+Netbook paradigm (say for arguments sake $800+$400) far more attractive than the Notebook-as-main-machine ($1200) paradigm. That's why I think Netbooks are going to be huge. A Netbook in every kid's backpack huge.
For real work, any notebook is a pain. A desktop with a large LCD is far nicer. As a mobile tool, mainly relating to internet connectivity, a notebook is invaluable. For that a certain feature set more or less exemplified by the Aspire One is essential. Performance to run graphics intensive apps is not. Execs how haven't got that memo yet should be tossed under the bus.
If you still aren't convinced, consider the upcoming 3G support: basically all the neat stuff you can do with your internet-enabled mobile phone with the more comfortable, more readable, laptop form factor still at a take anywhere size and not worry about too much price.
I'm totally stoked. Sony: go cry me a river.
See what we have here is two companies who both missed the mark when everybody else jumped on the asus bandwagon. Most people don't want an expensive notebook. If the hardware gets smaller, i expect the price to get small, not increase like the apple air and the sony tz series. Now the new netbooks are selling more because they do less and cost less and they are smaller the breaking in to the tz series area. I mean iv never understood how manufacturers have the cheak to provide a notebook with smaller cheaper parts and then feel they can charge you more than a normal high end notebook.
If you don't jump on the bandwagon quick enough, don't feel you can moan about your faults.
who's senior director --> whose senior director
who's Stan Glasgow --> whose Stan Glasgow
There were news not long ago that there are 1 billion computers in the world... netbooks are not built for extensive use. They are the new cellphone, that can be carried around easily and cheap enough to get to the other 5 billion people (I know 1 billion computers doesn't mean 1 billion humans using them... just trying to make a point here).
Extra! Extra! Large Entrenched Industry Resents Competition, Outpouring Of Compassion From Everyone Else Notable By Absence
I tried out MSI Wind and Sony TZ side by side the other day. I have tell you, I am not sure what extra $1500 in Sony buys beside marketing. I arrived at the exact same conclusion when I switched to StarOffice + Google Docs.
An overwhelming majority of PC buyers bought redundant computing resources to run basic software.
Another overwhelming majority of software buyers bought redundant (sometimes never used) features to run basic functions.
Maybe a correction in both market is overdue... all for the better.
I've my EeePC 701 running a whole day practically. It serves as internet radio, web browser, instant messaging and more. It's great and I can get it in my a single hand immediately and go with with everywhere. Performance is good enough and as I'm prefer arcade games (and some oldies) it's fine for my gaming as well.
Once I got an replacement I may use it for so many different tasks it's staggering. It will never be "obsolete" as long it works.
Spelling police for Donald Melanson.:
in your post, [who's]=[whose], at least twice.
[who's] is a contraction, meaning [who is]
[whose] is the correct possessive, which is what you meant here.
My advice when you are writing for the public, even informally on a blog, is just do not use contractions anyway.