Pandora finally (finally!) gets a ship date and price

Be still our hearts! After months upon months (upon months) of waiting, the tight-knit team behind the ultra-potent Pandora gaming handheld has finally divulged the information we've been clamoring for: the ARM Cortex A8-powered device will begin shipping before Christmas 2008 for £199.99 in the UK. The first batch will consist of 3,000 units, and the team is hoping that all of those will be sold out before the first one leaves the dock. There's no word on how costly it'll be for Americans, though we're crossing our fingers that it'll sell for a few bucks less than the $360 we find when simply converting pounds to dollars.

[Thanks, Andri]

[Nitin Kumar @ Sep 2nd 2008 1:58AM]

Uh.. whats potent about pandora?
How does it compare versus Nintendo DS and PSP which have a solid platform and plentiful of games..

ARM cortex 8 processor... sounds ultra light on batteries but is it powerful enough to handle gaming as seen in DS and PSP.

Disclaimer: Own a PSP and have been eyeing a DS for quite sometime now.

[setrodox @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:10AM]

Far more power than either the DS or the PSP, just to compare with the PSP, the second value being the pandora:
333mhz vs 600mhz
64mb ram vs 128mb ram
480*272 vs 800*480
and so on...

The problem will be getting someone to use that power, as you can't count on big developers making software for a niche product.

[Joe H @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:12AM]

Are you kidding? The DS uses two ARM processors, one 67 MHz, another 33MHz.

The PSP is a 333MHz MIPS processor.

The Pandora is has been overclockable up to 900MHz. In fact, it runs SNES and Genesis at at least double the original FPS at its default clock of 500MHz. In fact it should be underclockable with most emulators for even greater than 10 hr battery life.

[iofthestorm @ Sep 2nd 2008 3:29AM]

Pandora is about 2-3x faster than a PSP, are you kidding me? It can probably run PS1/N64 emus at full speed with unoptimized code.

[Nitin Kumar @ Sep 2nd 2008 5:04AM]

I was actually unsure of the software support for the system.
Going through the detailed specs of the device, while the processor would be fairly advanced, I note that it is equivalent to what you would see in a high-end smartphone. Infact Nvidia's Tegra is in the same ballpark.

I fully agree with the authors that these devices will be good for emulation of vintage titles and can run upto quake III and maybe even Doom 3. That said, these would be open source codes reoptimised for this particular class of CPU and not native codes. My experience says, except for the enthusiast community who will port the free software engines to this machine nothing much would happen. Emulation - oh yeah definitely the target, but as the authors say dreamcast is pushing the boundries.

Higher frequencies do not mean higher performance, higher RAM may mean incremental improvements but again not mind bending performances. DS and PSP are machines targetted from day one at gaming and the companies have built around a library of games around that capability. Pandora may have the best machine but unless software companies support it, I would say it is somebody's dream gone wrong.

The other thing this machine has going wrong is the pricing. At ~US$400, it outprices itself versus PSP and DS.. and remember PSP can also homebrew vintage games (ok I agree the performance sucks, but the games are still playable). So I still do not see where it differentiates itself from the entrenched players.

Please enlighten me if you a better ides.

Cheers

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Sep 2nd 2008 6:37AM]

It's nice of you to compare that to PSP.

Pandora and PSP both magnitude faster than DS and both are lacking in department of games.

I do not believe hat Pandora would somehow manage to have any kind of library of games at the launch. If PSP struggles for such long time to gain a decent game library, then I do not think Pandora would fare any better.

[greg @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:20PM]

@niti

Actually the pandora site reflects a price of $330 not $400. This was recent upped to $330 due to the weak dollar. However in the past month the dollar has gained strength against many major currencies. it's now converting to the euro at 1:1.45 which is a much lower rate than it was when the price was changed. In addition, the dollar is at record lows compared to the pound (somewhere around 1.80). Not sure if this means the pandora will drop back down in price (maybe possible), but the price will not increase.

[Stndsh0 @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:07AM]

What is so good about this?

[Ayman @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:12AM]

Well you open it and all of hells demons will be unleashed.....this is Pandora's Box

[jaalin @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:09AM]

i haven't been really keeping up on the pandora talk, but am i right in saying that it's a glorified emulator machine? SNES, PSX, with ability to run ubuntu and pc games. considering the long battery life, i'd be compelled to use it as a netbook, as stated in the article.

hardware-wise, i'm sure it can handle games like the ones on DS and PSP, but without games developed specifically for pandora, the controls / adaptation might be weird.

still, it's a great step in the right direction that's actually become reality, and hopefully engadget will keep us posted on how well it's received.

[comander57 @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:16AM]

What does this play? is it open source/homebrew like the joy device i read about the other day? looks like an Eee PC from the small photo.

If this is open source I want one :P

[wootman @ Sep 2nd 2008 7:28PM]

Yes, its a homebrew game player/mini computer, and is open source.
To gauge its power, it is claimed Doom 3 would run on it.

[Stndsh0 @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:14AM]

Thanks for the explanations. It sounds pretty good but a tad expensive.

[Matthewmongan @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:18AM]

from what i understand it can run psone emu. That being said, i have a zaurus 3200 with comparible form and specs and while it can do nes/snes titles all day PS1 quality is lacking. there is a homebrew community but i havent seen it in action. Unfortunately a device that is primarily used for legally questionable methods of gaming (roms) has a limited nich market at best. before everyone starts flaming, lets be real. if you buy this, its not to play a homebrew, its to rock some kong on the subway. that being said, I think its great. it's what sharp should have made with the Zaurus line and it has great potential as a platform beyond gaming with some os modifacation. run a little pdaXrom, dual boot the game os. hows that for a slice of fried gold?

Granted, you could do the same on a netbook.

[EngineerLackey @ Sep 9th 2008 11:07AM]

Zaurus 3200 isn't really comparable. The microarchitecture is different/older (XScale vs.Cortex-A8), and it doesn't have a PowerVR SGX (programmable shaders on a handheld system! I feel old) or a 400+MHz DSP core.

[comander57 @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:21AM]

Yeah i should wiki before jumping the gun. I want one of these bad as now. much easier than carting the laptop around with potential for my work stuf to get lost/damaged.

i could play ALL of my snes roms nes roms, ROMS ROMS ROMS. and PS1 W00t.

in short. i hope it gets to ebay eventually. coz im in australia and there is no chance its coming here

[wootman @ Sep 2nd 2008 7:29PM]

Its pretty likely there will be an Australian distributor, and shipping shouldn't be too terribly much.

[Nik @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:38AM]

Throwing a few cents in.

Pandora is not all about emus. Naturally the dev community has some goodies in the pipeline, but that's no different to any other open system. It IS very much about homebrew. Anyone who has owned a GP2X knows what sort of quality to expect from this community. :) There is a world of Linux games out there to be ported, AND there are some commercial game devs on board already. Then there's all the multimedia, productivity, and web related apps that will be written or ported. It's going to run a bona fide Linux distro (and is actually capable of running Ubuntu).

Seriously, this is one to keep an eye on.

[xValentine @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:41AM]

Imminent fail.

[gabe @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:59AM]

its a nice idea but its 1) expensive

2) great games are now coming from the big companies

3) why would indy develop for a system that has less than a million handhelds in circulation

sounds like a tough road ahead

[speculatrix @ Sep 2nd 2008 5:56AM]

the pandora is an interesting device, as it's fully open-sourced, even down to the drivers. the nokia tablet and sharp zaurus both have closed source components, some of which are fairly critical if you want to roll your own distribution and make use of all the hardware. in the case of the nokia tablet, it's not actually possible to make *full* use of the DSP and the video chip! This is not always entirely the fault of the computer manufacturer because they may not get permission to reveal the full register and instruction set of those chips.

hopefully pandora paves the way showing Ti and other companies that keeping drivers and chipset information secret doesn't help their business case.

[utzutzutz @ Sep 2nd 2008 3:37AM]

this will be very big

I mean its exactly what this EE's are not - useful.
cheaper than the last 100 EEePC's Asus released with a touchscreen, 10 hours battery-life and the most important thing it has no VGA Port!1

[JerryG20 @ Sep 2nd 2008 4:46AM]

The price should be $330. The UK price includes V.A.T. which is why it is more than $330 after a currency exchange.

Pre-orders go up on September 30th (why is this not in the article?).

Along with emulation there should also be a lot of UMPC applications.

It is a lot smaller than an Eee PC. The Pandora's size is between the original, fat DS and the DS Lite.

[Macindows @ Sep 2nd 2008 4:51AM]

Does it come with Windows XP? ;-)

[Kurian @ Sep 2nd 2008 5:16AM]

It will fail for the sole reason that its not made by some big company like Sony or Microshaft.

It will NEVER get a SINGLE good game that is worth playing. All it will be is a homebrew device.

Aside from emulators and some other stuff, most homebrew programs SUCK. Don't even get me started on homebrew games.

[Alex @ Sep 2nd 2008 9:58AM]

"Aside from emulators and some other stuff, most homebrew programs SUCK. Don't even get me started on homebrew games."

You come off as very arrogant when saying things like that that. Quality homebrew games have ten times more heart and personality than the drivel most large publishers pour down your throat every month. Sure some homebrew games are the byproduct of someone getting their feet wet in programming for the first time, but there are plenty of gems out there, and by out there I mean specifically in the GP32/GP2X community, ie. from where Pandora originates.

It annoys me to see you belittle the efforts of so many talented people just because you wouldn't open your mind towards new things if your life depended on it.

[Shyam D @ Sep 2nd 2008 10:30AM]

A few Indie Game Companies have confirmed interest in the Pandora. Unlike other consoles, there is no Licensing fee/etc. to develop a game for the Pandora. Also it is not just a console. It is a UMPC/PDA as well and the full power of linux can be leveraged for that.

Next time you feel like commenting, go get some experience first.

[ssrat_ @ Sep 2nd 2008 5:29AM]

It IS a nice machine, but the screen size is HALF of the smallest "netbook" out there 4.3"??

Not something I could see reading, doing actual work on.

As a gaming device the only problem (apart from software) is that it just looks like it is made out of hard plastic, and would only be good for short sessions,or else your hands would cramp up, bite into the corners.

NOW, after the release and we see what is available for it, it might be a good portable gaming machine, meaning there would be yet ANOTHER thing to buy/carry with you (Time to get the flexible (40%) solar panels to market for daily outings)

[grndslm @ Sep 2nd 2008 1:20PM]

It *is* a nice device, isn't it? The screen size can't be a problem, because people use the iPhone's screen just fine. Heck, I surf the web on my Treo 755p - when I'm bored - with no problem.

My only two nitpicks I have with the device are:

(1) A LOT of people are getting into MIDs nowadays, like the iPhone, iPod Touch, Nokia N800/810, Gigabyte M528, etc., and they should have figured out a way to fold the screen back on the other side (i.e. - a double hinged screen design) in order to appeal to the people like myself who don't consider gaming to be my top priority for hauling an electronic device around nowadays. Because this is an open source project, funding was tight, and they didn't feel like it was worth their time to fight a lame & obvious patent in order to make a better and more appealing device.

(2) The keyboard on this thing has got to suck. I know because every device like these with a thumbboard larger than 3" wide just sucks because the designers don't understand what a thumbboard really is... they just think it's a miniature keyboard. People who have used Treos before know that if you're going to implement a thumbboard, the keys need to be raised with a bump on the top and close together for less travel space between keys. I can type ~40wpm with corrections, and I can type a lot more precisely than something like an iPhone ever will. My proposal is to use a thumbboard similar to the one on the Treos and put it in the middle of the device... then move the analog sticks down to the sides of the thumbboard. Makes typing and gameplay much more practical & ergonomical.

But no... the developers have already made their design, and are too dead set on getting this thing out, even tho it's already taken them a lot more time than necessary. The people heading this project should look into outside investors and quit wasting time. Do something profound people... make your device appeal to more people than just gamers who already have a handheld, and you'll succeed. I'd ditch my DS if this thing was designed better... but I'll wait until Pandora 2.

[Benjiro @ Sep 2nd 2008 5:11PM]

grndslm:

(1) If you have the money, you can try to get the patent revoked yourself.
(2) The fact that you already declare that the keyboard sucks, before anybody tried it, well, thats a somewhat stupid view.

Its easy to stand on the sidelines, and criticize people who have poured a lot of money, time, into this project. The reason they where later is because its the first time they did it them selfs. They had setbacks like a bug in the cpu, one of the manufacture failed to provide parts, development boards getting damaged in transport, several manufactures who did not have a clue how to manufacture...

Yes, there are always points where people will bitch, and complain about. To me it looked like it was wasting to much space around the screen, and a 5" screen might have been more usable. Until! the developers confirm that it was not possible without increasing the size.

You can't please everybody... If you cater to every people's request, you need to build a machine the size of a walnut, with a 20" screen, and a full keyboard, a 16 Core Intel, with a Geforce280, that runs 100h on battery, and weighs 5 gram... O wait, no, because some people still will not find this enough.

By all accounts, it's the most powerful gaming hand held now, and its open! No hacking required, no fighting the big evil company thats trying to prevent independent third party's to use/develop there own software for it.

I'm willing to bet, that we will see some heavy emulators being run on this system. Sure, there might not be any big game developers supporting it, but so what. Is that any different on the Linux platform as a whole? I think with the maybe 10.000 titles ( snes, psx, atari, mame, dosbox, nintendo, ... ) alone that you can run from emulators, its going to have a bigger game base, then most commercial game hand held's have, and again, no hacking required.

So, look at the positive things for a change. Lets face it, it is going to bury your DS. So, while you wait for the Pandora 2 ( what most likely won't live up to your expectations anyway ), we will be enjoying our Pandora in all its glory ;-)

[Lucas @ Sep 2nd 2008 6:26AM]

If it's nix based, how about running Wine and games like Fallout? Will this be possible?

The only thing I want from a portable game system is to be able to play old PC games like Fallout, as well as all the emulation I could ever want.

If this can deliver, count me in.

[Chip @ Sep 2nd 2008 10:23AM]

No. Wine only works on x86 systems. The Pandora has an ARM processor. The only way to run x86-native code is under full emulation like DOSBox.

[Cornelius @ Sep 29th 2008 3:02PM]

Also, keep in mind that full x86 emulation under DosBox will be slow. Performance for DOS emu will be comparable to a 286.

Your best bet is to port/recompile old dos games to run natively, and we only have the source code to a handful of games, like Wolfenstein3D, ROTT, Doom, Quake, Descent, Duke Nukem 3D, Simcity, ScummVM (old LucasArts adventure games), etc. Luckily, it supports OpenGL, so many of these old games will even look and run better on this device than they did on old 486 or Pentium processors.

Still, if the GP2x is any indication (I have one, and the Pandora will have a bigger community IMO), there won't be any shortage of nostalgia game-playing.

I'm really looking forward to this christmas.. ;)

[Charbax @ Sep 2nd 2008 7:48AM]

I interviewed one of the people behind the Pandora project at IFA a couple of days ago, see my 14 minute interview with him about all the details of the Pandora project at http://techvideoblog.com/ifa/open-pandora-evildragon-interview/

[Wild Bill @ Sep 2nd 2008 8:44AM]

Goddamn Rick Roll !

[Salsa Shark @ Sep 2nd 2008 9:14AM]

I didn't see any RickRolling going on there, but I admittedly got bored and stopped watching it after about 4-5 minutes.

[Magallanes @ Sep 2nd 2008 8:02AM]

The very difference than ds and psp is the in-build keyboard. This feature can fond in several programmers and, if it's allowed to run linux. To run a linux shell without a proper keyboard is insane.

[ced flanders @ Sep 2nd 2008 9:05AM]

can't wait for the unboxing videos

[Hellaphunt @ Sep 2nd 2008 11:54AM]

/boner

[ND @ Sep 2nd 2008 2:38PM]

Will there be anyway to run windows on this, I know it won't run natively as it doesn't have an x86 cpu, with with 600 mhz (overclockable to 900) an emulator would probably run fine. It would be quite good for businessmen on the go and stuff like that

[Benjiro @ Sep 2nd 2008 4:49PM]

ND: You answered your own question did you not? Yes, the CPU has the speed capability but, its a ARM CPU, not a x86. Thats also one of the reasons its so fast but at the same time, power efficient.

[cb88 @ Sep 4th 2008 1:23PM]

yeah... linux has lots of programs maybe you should look into it more before asking if it runs windows... most of us here are like why whould you want to do that? also this device won't have many of the setup issues that a PC version of linux has since there is not configuration to do since all the hardware is the same

[Brent212 @ Sep 24th 2008 4:41PM]

The only reason I'd like it to run windows is so I could use my windows mobile phone as a modem. With winxp, it works flawlessly... I simply connect the phone to the computer, and windows does the rest. Is this possible with ubuntu? If so, then I'd be fine with using this, assuming I can find codecs for any video file I throw at it.

[KingPepper @ Sep 4th 2008 7:27PM]

Somebody above said this Pandora machine is 3 times the speed of the PSP's top 333mhz, well if Playstation 1 Emulation is nearly perfect on a PSP, then that tells me, a Playstation 2 Emulator may well be possible, imagine that, the whole back catalog of Japanese/American/European Games all running on this, and with twin analog Nubs to mimic the twin sticks on a PS2 Pad, are there any trigger buttons at the rear of this machine? as that would help alot. LOL
This machine may well be able to run the following.......in my opinion...........
NES / SNES / N64 / GAMECUBE / PS1 / PS2 / PSP / MAME Games / DOSbox(All Early Dos Games on PC) / All the Texas Instruments Consoles and Computers / Spectrum / BBC Micro / Amiga / Atari ST / GB / GBC / GBA / NDS & Lite / Game Gear / Master System / Megadrive or Genesis / 32X, and of course the games that have been mentioned already possible on the Pandora (Quake 2 & 3), which tells me that any games before the year 2003 may well run and many many more of which i have forgotten to mention.

As you can see the Potential of this Machine is Incredible!!!!!!

My best wishes go out to the Team behind this great Console, best of Luck!!!!!

[cb88 @ Sep 9th 2008 11:23AM]

you are right except for the PS2 it is just way too powerfull although someone is working on a proof of concept dreamcast (probably not playable but that is the goal)

[Jamoke @ Nov 4th 2008 12:15PM]

I dont see how they expect to make/sell software for this product, most of the people that use emulators use roms and dont pay for the software, and even if they do make games they will be released on the net for download. I just dont see the possibility of any quality games coming out comparaable to NDS or PSP. I will stick with my DS, it runs great with a flashcart, and can play SNES, Sega Genesis, GBA, GBC, GB, SCummVM, and homebrew games like quake, duke3d, and doom. The only thing I would really like is to be able to emulate PSX (FFVII), and N64 which is all this product really offers for me, but unfortunately I am not experienced with linux, and it sounds like a system that is completely open source would be a hassle finding compatible drivers, and then configuration the system. I know it would give your more flexability over the os, but that is not something I am interested in for playing handheld games.

[Giants @ Sep 4th 2008 5:45AM]

Hi,

Great projet but little expensive !
360$ for playing a vintage machine...
I LOVVVVE my Amstrad and my Snes, but, 360$ for re-playing it's too expensive.

At the moment, the notebook (like EEPC) apear,
You can find a good machine (work on linux and XP) for 300 // 400 Euro
so... Why buy a 'special machine' at this expensive price ?

lot of emulators ALWAYS work very good on XP and linux (SNES, PCE...)
and not necessary to have the source because don't need to re-compil

So, again ? why this GREAT projet at this price ?
I don't understand.

[cb88 @ Sep 9th 2008 11:20AM]

it is in the same ballpark as the gamecube from the native game standpoint... and there is just a little bit more commercial interest than you might think

[wildman4god @ Sep 4th 2008 8:13AM]

Am I the only one who knows about redspot games' offical announcement that they will offically produce commercial games for the pandora, this coupled with the new gp2x wiz promise to release new games every month means we have a good ol' fashioned console war on our hands which can drive new game and software development. Also $330-400 is a good price for the pandora because it is a full umpc by defintion (better than most IMO) and other umpc's cost around 2 or 3 thousand dollars, Pandora does way more than just emulate older systems, it can also do work like open office and fire fox 3 as well as being one of the only hand helds that you can feasibly develop software on as well as stuff like website development, and not to metion all the media functions. Plus lets not for get the usb host port which means you can add any usb accessory, no other hand held can do that, the site says this is not made to compeate with the likes of the psp or the ds but rather it is desighned to be the ultimate hand held device, which they have indeed accomplished. and as far as running windows is conserned, why would you need to, the eee pc has shown that windows is no longer nessacery, newer linux distros are very user freindly, you just have to be willing to learn something new. With linux the only real reason we still need windows is mainly for games not bussiness/office applications, and with this linux console war starting up this could very well ignite development of more linux games ultimately making windows obsolete.

[cb88 @ Sep 4th 2008 1:21PM]

no i knew about it too...X.x