Zune updates, more than just capacity?
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Sep 2nd 2008 8:03AM
posted Sep 2nd 2008 8:03AM
"I can't say much, but I've seen what Microsoft's planning, and befitting its status as a software plus services company, the real advances aren't going to be in the Zune hardware, but in the Zune software and associated services."Sooner, rather than later though Microsoft, your target isn't standing still.
how long until we hear something to/about Zune guy?
He is no longer a Zune guy, he pitched a hissy when the last update did not allow him to connect his ZUNE to his Xbox360 just the way he wanted to, and he thinks that MS renigged on a free trip to redmand.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/23/zune-guy-fed-up-with-zune-seeks-to-cover-up-tattoos/
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/26/zune-guy-calls-microsoft-liars-says-zune-situation-is-f-in/
So as you can see he got his panties in a twist, because a free ZUNE and other swag was not enough.
And it appears that Apple has not done anything special for the ex-Zune lover.
PR disguised as a news report? In MY Engadget?
It's more likely than you think.
lol This is a blog about gadgets that you can buy from large corporations and you're complaining about PR being disguised as "news"?
Meh i was excited when hearing about the first gen zune...... then it came out..... now i just dont care. Im still waiting for a player that makes me rly want it... the iriver spinn is closest right now i might get that when it comes to US
Try Samsung P2.
Please let the enhancements be Dvix support, a clock/calendar, RSS reader, txt reader and other goodies. Hopefully some of it will be free since I don't feel like forking up extra dough for "associated services".
Well said. I think the divx support would be key. I impressed a bunch of people this weekend with the large screen videos on my zune. Luckily I didn't have to explain what a pain in the ass it was to get the videos on there.
I can't remember when MS has charged for an update. Apple on the other hand......
How about getting rid of the goody "Like" "Don't Like" ratings? It goes against the Vista way of rating files and seriously, who puts music on their portable music player they don't like?
How about improving their smart playlists? They are only smart on the desktop. If you create a playlist of recent music and you decide to add music to your player from another machine (or from the same machine) and the playlist isn't synced up, it won't show up.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Zune (I own 5; don't ask why) but their software still leaves quite a bit to be desired especially when one part of Microsoft (Zune Team) goes a different direction than an already established idea (Vista). This reminds me of the WHS team decided to write their own copy sharing routines rather than using the well established ones used in Windows. We know how that turned out (corruption bugs!)
How about getting rid of the goody "Like" "Don't Like" ratings? It goes against the Vista way of rating files and seriously, who puts music on their portable music player they don't like?
How about improving their smart playlists? They are only smart on the desktop. If you create a playlist of recent music and you decide to add music to your player from another machine (or from the same machine) and the playlist isn't synced up, it won't show up.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Zune (I own 5; don't ask why) but their software still leaves quite a bit to be desired especially when one part of Microsoft (Zune Team) goes a different direction than an already established idea (Vista). This reminds me of the WHS team decided to write their own copy sharing routines rather than using the well established ones used in Windows. We know how that turned out (corruption bugs!)
How about getting rid of the goody "Like" "Don't Like" ratings? It goes against the Vista way of rating files and seriously, who puts music on their portable music player they don't like?
How about improving their smart playlists? They are only smart on the desktop. If you create a playlist of recent music and you decide to add music to your player from another machine (or from the same machine) and the playlist isn't synced up, it won't show up.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Zune (I own 5; don't ask why) but their software still leaves quite a bit to be desired especially when one part of Microsoft (Zune Team) goes a different direction than an already established idea (Vista). This reminds me of the WHS team decided to write their own copy sharing routines rather than using the well established ones used in Windows. We know how that turned out (corruption bugs!)
I like how I keep replying to Homeboy, but it keeps showing up under iEye above other replies.
Engadget's comment system sucks
it already has a clock, calendar, and text reader along with various games, a calculator, etc, etc, etc. Just go to zuneboards.com and look under download games(other sites have similar stuff too, that's just the one I go to)
it already has a lot of that(clock, calendar, text reader) and a lot of other stuff like games and calculators...
I played with a Zune for about 25 seconds... liked the screen effects... but other than that this thing is fail, software and a services will not help in any way... and games? forget games...
but I guess in the end if people have Jobs "no pun intended", and the company only makes a shiny new penny when the Zune plays the song of a sinking ship, thats the only thing that matters...
Shame on you for putting a picture of yourself in your avatar. Ugly sucker!
Well, you know what? I own one, and totally disagree. It has its share of flaws, but it's a perfectly fine portable AV player.
@Erwos:
You've hit the nail right on the head!
Ugh, I replied to Homeboy! Dammit Engadget!
arg!!! die engadget, die!
I played with a Mac for about 25 seconds... liked the screen effects... but other than that this thing is fail, software and a services will not help in any way... and games? forget games...
but I guess in the end if people have Gates "no pun intended", and the company only makes a shiny new penny when the Mac plays the song of a sinking ship, thats the only thing that matters...
See what I did there? Wanna do some more useless "Madlibs - Fanboy Edition"?
@PynkFloydd
Haha, I see what you did there! Thanks for the laugh, lol.
@Eric M.:
No problem! What people forget is that using a PC is really a lifestyle choice. ...like being American. So, when they attack people using PC's...they're really attacking Americans. It's a little like being a terrorist. Yup. ...like being a terrorist.
Zune guy will tattoo his arse this time..
We need a software update for the zune...
As a Zune user, the update I've been wanting to see the most would have to be audiobook support.
That is my biggest complaint as well, I currently have all my audio books tagged as podcasts.
"Your target isn't standing still."
No, just taking backwards steps. I cannot believe the horrible new Nano design. Glad I haven't committed myself to the iPod/iTunes universe, because Apple just seems to be getting further and further behind the competition (if you can call it competition, as it unfortunately remains a virtual Apple monopoly) in features, quality, and price.
iPod sound quality: poor
iPod battery life: mediocre
iPod format support: limited
iPod build quality: unreliable
iPod ease of use: good
iTunes software: only good insofar as it provides access to the iTunes store
iTunes store: good
iPod interface: sweet
iPod physical design: as of the 4G Nano, really bad!
"iPod build quality: unreliable"
What, exploding isn't a desirable quality in an MP3 player?
I agree about the nano, I thought the mini ipod classic look was pretty cool, I even considered getting one, but the new one not so much.
Just out of curiosity, if you haven't "committed [your]self to the iPod/iTunes universe", what makes you qualified to make those comments?
I disagree about sound quality being low, at least on the iPhone 3G. I'm an audio quality elitist. After the iPod 2G, I went with 3 consecutive Cowon players and the iPod Shuffle 1G, all of which had outstanding sound quality. I don't know how the other iPods are holding up, but the iPhone 3G's headphone jack provides excellent sound quality.
What exactly do you mean by "i'm and audio quality elitist"? Is it just your pathetic way of lending more gravita to your (unsupported) claims, and that you believe that you're better than everyone here who believes that iPod sound quality is poor? Now I for one couldn't care less if that's just your opinion, everyone's entitled to their own, and I personally don't see a problem with my iPod sound quality.
Next time you bring your "i'm an elitist" BS to the table though, I'll unleash the cyber-hounds with bees in their mouths, so that when they bark they shoot bees at you.
@Nytrojen: That's funny (actually -- I liked your use of the term "gravitas")...but you clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Everyone who cares about sound quality on DAPs knew that the older iPods were crap for audio quality, that Cowon players were among the best and consistently provided FLAC and ogg support, and that the iPod Shuffle 1st gen. had the best headphone jack of all the iPods at the time of its release. If you require high quality audio for whatever reason, you encode your files at some high bitrate, blow hundreds of dollars on headphones every few years, and you never use DAPs that have crap sound quality, because you would rather pull out your own fingernails while humming along. If you don't do those things, that's fine, more power to you.
Blasphemy !!!! Burn Heathen
@Dennis:
If you really were an audio quality elitist then, you'd know that no MP3 player on the market has sufficient DAC's or power/power filtering to provide truly high quality sound. On the run, I use an MP3 player to carry all of my music with me from point A to point B. At home, I use my Cary SLA-70MKII tube amp, Kimber Kable, Audio Physic Steps SLE.
Anything above 192kbps is really hard to tell the difference on an MP3 player. Actually, I'm pretty sure that the circuits MP3 players can't output anything over 256kbps (I could be wrong though). It's not that there's a ton background noise or anything poor quality about it. An MP3 player just can't get a strong enough, pure signal to power an exact replica of the original recording. This is really important in a near-field listening arrangement. Most headphones use tricks like sound isolation, etc. to try and get a better sound. It's like comparing a laptop to a hardcore gaming desktop.
The Zune 80gb does sound better than the iPods that I've owned though...
@PynkFloydd: You'll get no argument from me. You're a step higher than I am. I usually encode mp3s at around 256 - 320 kbps and use Etymotic ER4-p's on the road, or Grado SR-60s at home. I know the IEMs aren't accurate, but they do give good sound and block out other noise. I just asked the guy at the local audiophile store about headphone amps, he recommended the Grado RA-1. But I've been holding off on getting into the next level of equipment, because I'll just get sucked right along, probably.
@ Bobjim
Having two brothers with iPods, and having iTunes installed on my computer.
@ Bobjim
Oh, and having done my research, reading lots of reviews and the like. :p
@Dennis:
You should check out Audiogon. I actually got my setup for dirt cheap on eBay. Most audiophile types give the white glove treatment to their stuff. The used VTL, VAC, Dk Design, Cary stuff is all awesome. They all make great integrated amps. The nice thing about an integrated amp is that you could always connect some speakers down the line. I run a Yamaha receiver between my tube amp and PC and it sounds just as good as my Pioneer Elite DVD player. You can bypass the DSP's in most decent receivers and with a lossless format, it sounds dead on!
If you're in the market for a MP3 player. You should give the new Zunes a fair try though (unless you're running Mac's OSX or Linux). I think that they're more catered to audiophile types. One of the nicest features that is included in the software is that you can encode your music in Lossless format (or whatever else that you choose) and it'll convert your music down to 256kps when it loads on the Zune. So, you've got the high quality stuff on your computer for home use because you've got a ton of space. ...but, the Zune maximizes space and only contains what it can benefit most from.
If you're on a PC, if you right click on the speaker (in the lower right) for Sound Properties, go to Playback Devices...you'll actually notice a difference when you max the format to the highest quality "studio" setting. The default is a much lower CD quality; it resets to default everytime you upgrade the driver. When you boost it, you'll notice your sound stage focus a lot more and instrument reproduction be a LOT more accurate.
Anyway...hope that helps!
Can you say....Zune Store.
I can see it now. A really novel idea. An online application store where you can purchase/download for free apps for the Zune.
What do you think? Think it will fly?
Or they could integrate XNA Games with the Zune Marketplace.
You mean like this.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/catalog/cataloghome.aspx
Indeed, Cody, I'm thinking they'll finally integrate XNA games with the Zune marketplace and hopefully make it so you don't have to shutdown the device after every game. Maybe they'll also integrate that smart shuffle idea I remember reading about...
UK SUPPORT WOULD BE NICE!!!
But in terms of the software itself, 'proper' game support where the machine doesn't reset itself when you exit an app will hopefully be in the next release. Less resource hungry desktop software would be nice too but that's more of a dream...
God do I feel you on the system resources thing my man, 170+/- of RAM for a damn sync software is WAY to much, I mean what does Microsoft thing it is, Firefox 2 or something!
Zune games with achievements that link to my XBL account would get me to buy one.
if Zune 3.0 doesn't have Unicode support I know one unit that is going in the trash.
AMEN.
Shoot, I can DEFINATELY take that Zune off you hands mate!
My main annoyance with the Zune is that it isn't recognised by WMP or by explorer, something which I really miss from my Zen.
My other complaints include poor battery life and difficult navigation under direct sunlight.
There's a registry hack that will let explorer see the Zune, and you can open it up in My Computer.
If you're talking about the zAlternator app, I already tried it to no avail.
Yea, Zalternater -- I used that when I had a Zune 80 for about a week. It's a great device, but it pissed me off that you could not use it as a external hard drive like the other iPods. The only way information could be stored on the device with the registery hack was when things (songs/videos) were already syncing to the Zune. If not, it would be impossible to transfer any kind of file to the Zune's HDD. Talk about a pain in the rear. Version 2.0 is much better than ver. 1, but there's still a few kinks in the system. Beautiful interface though, much much better than the iPod classic.
2 things I'd love to see on the Zune software. One is landscape mode and controls when listening to music. I keep the player on my arm at the gym.
Second would be at least a clock as a screensaver.
Screensaver would really run the battery down... Better to just make it a clock in the corner.
I'm not sure why people are down on Zunes cause of lacks of updates.
Apple refreshes their lines once a year. Microsoft released updates twice a year so essentially updates the Zune twice as much as Apple does and the Zune sucks?
As well, MS keeps this quiet cause they believe they have a cool feature that the iPods don't have and they want the leg up on Apple on the market for this feature. It's competitive secrecy and Apple does this better than anyone else.
If MS is working on something that everyone else has(aka Audible support), they tell everyone straight away.
And hey, at least my 4GB Zune will get the new Zune 3.0 update and it won't cost me any more money to upgrade(hello iPod Touch V2.0 software) or I won't have to buy a new unit until this one actually fails.
I think the Zunes are perfectly fine players, realistically not too much separates the entire crop by now (Sansa, Creative, Samsung, Apple, etc.)
But Microsoft (Allard in particular) has a habit of overpromising with the Zune in order to generate hype and publicity, thus the disappointment and negative reaction when little in the way of new features is added. Take the wifi for example. No other player has wifi, so no big deal IMO if you never 'squirt'. But they seemed to promise the moon, new functionality, 'Welcome to the Social', etc., but the wifi hardware has basically died on the vine. Again, no big deal since I don't think you buy the Zune for wifi, you buy it for the overall feature set.
I think they've toned down the hype though, and the current players are better IMO than the original Zune.
Cant wait for the 16GB version!
and major upgrade at that: All new Zunes will now come with 2, count
them 2 rolls of toilet paper! Imagine that! wow. There goes that
famous Microsoft innovation...
(shaking his head...)
I am diggin that font.
Yes the shoddy software is certainly in need of improvement. Fix the media center support for one. Its one of the things Zune has that ipod doesnt. They need to make it work better.
Cross connecting Live marketplace with the zune store would be great too. There a lot of movies and shows there - why not consolidate and offer to both customer bases?
The game playing function they announced long ago should be part of this update.
Well you can already play games on all Zunes... so yeah.
Because Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company.
The funny thing about the Zune game is, you have to write your own games - or get a source code from other.
On the other hand, you'll have an App Store for your iPod - for easily purchasing or get free apps.
And Zune let you update your firmware for new functionality for free, but if you have an iPod touch, you'll be paying 9.99$ for "January Update" and another 9.99$ for the 2.0 update
But the iPod come with a glamorous iTunes with wonderful iTunes Store, unless you have a Zune,
you'll have to learn the newly design sophisticated Zune Software, and learn how to get a Microsoft Points in the Marketplace - or get a Zune pass and download whatever you like as long as your pass don't expire.
These were suppose to play music, but who cares now?
People choose Features over Sound Quality.
"The funny thing about the Zune game is, you have to write your own games - or get a source code from other.
On the other hand, you'll have an App Store for your iPod - for easily purchasing or get free apps."
No you dont. You have to do that now because its in beta. Its the only way to load a game, via the source code and VC#. When its officially released around christmas time, there will be a marketplace for pre-compiled games, some of which are free and some are paid for (depending on what the developer wants from it).
Disclaimer: I'm a Mac guy and own an iPhone.
I have to say, I was really impressed with the first software upgrade. Especially since it was offered across the entire (or at least, previous generation) product line. My friend has a first generation Zune (couldn't tell you the capacity, sorry) and I remember playing with it when he bought it. The interface seemed kludgy to me, akin to every other PMP trying to imitate the iPod at the time.
The software upgrade was a huge step forward. The interface made sense and, to boot, had some style to it. The standard iPods (read: iPod classic, nano) even with their Cover Flow upgrades aren't as nice to use as a newer Zune. I'll be just excited for the new Zune upgrade as the next guy, because that division of Microsoft is pushing on Apple quite hard.
Very nice, and civilized Apple fanboy comment. And note, I do not say fanboy as to be derogitory in this particular comment. All fanboys(including myself) should take notes, and realize that this is the way that it should be done.
I agree. Zune needs to be serious competition for iTunes/iPod otherwise Apple will allow that business model to stagnate. Competition breeds excellence. Bring it.
What a beautiful comment; you make Mac owners proud.
This comment is on the "nice" extreme of the spectrum while clak's comments are on the other side.
Another cryptic leaked message to entice the last few Zune users for what would be just another copy of what Apple is doing. There really is nothing to glean from that message. Other than a desperate ploy to keep the last dozen users in the US. Oh I apologize. I need to include Canada. That would make it 16 users.
These bashes get so old and annoying. You can be loyal to your iLife and respect the competition all at once. Go to time-out now.
at least my zune won't blow up and start a fire.
Jubei, your comments continue to become even more and more hostile toward Microsoft and the Zune... It would almost seem as though you're getting jealous! Don't worry, I would be jealous, too.
*Zune 80 owner FROM THE UK*
I hope these developments are moving towards opening up the Zune internationally online. I picked mine up when I was in the USA and have been extreamly happy with it except all the hate Microsoft puts on us international users and the lack of a proper ecosystem. Seriously... In-line remote..... I am sure anyone who commutes like I do would wax lyrical about how useful a remote is. Makes me miss my Sony MD!
Divx/Xvid support, FLAC support, clock, ability to make more focused playlists on the go would be great too. Oh and being able to hook it up to the Wii but that wont happen till Hell freezes over I guess...
@dennis: What method did you use to determine the sound quality of the above mentioned DAPs?
I've met a lot of people who claim to be audio elitists just because they bought some expensive headphones that very clearly sound better than an iPod earbud. Not saying this is the case with you, but an unquantifiable "This DAP sounds better than that one" with only "I'm an audio elitist" to back up your claim doesn't lend itself to credibility.
As an audio engineer, I've personally measured the audio performance of both the Zune and the iPod Nano. Both devices have a basically flat frequency response from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Both can drive a load up to 32 ohms with no effect on frequency response (the Zune cannot drive any lower-impedance load; otherwise, bass rolls off). However, the iPod does have higher levels of harmonic distortion. I played a swept sine wave tone from 20 Hz to 20 kHz while observing a spectrum analyzer. From about 1k and higher, the iPod had louder harmonic tones than the Zune did. Further, with the iPod at full volume, it is possible to overdrive the DAC which increases distortion dramatically. Any content that is mastered to 0 dBFS (decibels realtive to digital full-scale), and any music published on CD in the last 15 years is, will be severely distorted at the highest two clicks of the volume on iPod. The Zune does not allow the DAC to be overdriven, and so regardless of content, the device's harmonic distortion will not increase.
Good insightful comments, man!
P.S., you didn't post it as a reply, though. ;)
4 features Zune has that I wish iPods would adopt/borrow/steal:
1. Song sharing - Even if it is only for 3 times like Zune, it's still a freaking good feature. After listening to something for 3 times, one would guess that you know whether you want to buy it or not. This would lead to...
2. All iPods having wifi - There's a lot more that you can do with it other than what Zune is doing, but if the majority of your product line doesn't have it, then you've still got a lot of catching up to do in terms of features.
3. Reverse sync - Yes, you can take songs OFF of a Zune without having to use 3rd party software. Your hard drive dies or your laptop's stolen? No need to worry about your music as long as you have it all on your Zune.
4. PVR integration. Once Mac OS X gives us a PVR (a la Windows Media Center and other good 3rd party software), then the ability to transfer movies you record to your computer to your iPod would be amazing. I'm wondering how many Zune-users do this instead of buying shows from Zune Marketplace. And I wonder if that' why Apple hasn't put such an effort forth yet: They don't want to cannibalize their TV show sales? Regardless, the feature is cool!