ASUS at it again, calling out Gigabyte's excessive copper usage

Oh ASUS, you bring us such joy. When this company isn't busy diluting its Eee brand, it loves to pick fights with noted rivals, and this latest spat with Gigabyte (who isn't at all innocent in this war) is wonderfully trivial. Apparently ASRock, ASUS's budget motherboard wing, has taken it upon itself to inform hardware review websites like HEXUS of Gigabyte's wasteful implementation of copper. The email ponders: "While the demand for copper keeps increasing and with that the price of this natural resource, why would manufacturers choose to use more copper without any valid reason?" And it gets better: "I [unidentified] am not talking about unnecessary heatpipes that most people do not need, but about Gigabyte's '2 oz Copper PCB'. Gigabyte is adding more copper to the PCB to reduce the heat that is produced by their motherboard, and to spread it across the motherboard so that the heat will dissipate more quickly." Naturally ASRock's own P45 motherboard falls into none such pitfalls, offering better cooling with less copper, and they even provided a handy chart up above in case you don't believe them, you idiot. Say no to waste!

[Thanks, Jordan]

[Sisyphus @ Oct 12th 2008 10:57AM]

ADMIN!!!!!

ASUS is wallhacking.

[j_g_puff @ Oct 12th 2008 10:59AM]

ASRock wins! The prize? Some kind of trophy. Made from some kind of metal. But definitely not in a wasteful way.

[strider_mt2k @ Oct 12th 2008 1:49PM]

The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow!

[kyle allen @ Oct 12th 2008 4:00PM]

here the asus, have a trophy! yes ill go get you a patty melt

[michas_pi @ Oct 12th 2008 11:02AM]

I think competition/companies calling each other out on issues like this is healthy.

[OnlyShawn @ Oct 12th 2008 11:46AM]

unfortunately, that's because you don't seem to understand economics and the price system.

if this is truly better to do it asus' way, gigabyte will go out of business because they can't compete with asus cheaper boards (if they're being wasteful, they're wasting money). if it isn't better to do it asus' way, then it doesn't matter. gigabyte is using resources, but they're paying for them, and it's up to them to make decisions about what is the best way to achieve certain ends. so long as there is a competitive market (and there certainly is one for copper...asus even admits that the price is rising), companies will naturally be induced to use less of this or that product.

if you'd like to learn about prices and their rationing effects, check out russ roberts' new book, the price of everything.

[404 @ Oct 12th 2008 11:48AM]

"In HEXUS' experience, for a company such as ASRock to publicly attack Gigabyte in this way is not the usual, reserved Tainwanese way of going about things; so maybe there's more than competitive business practice in all this than the meets the eye..."

HEXUS seems to think it's healthy for advertising, too. And, in all fairness, it does rub their products in our faces and gets us to talk about them...

[OnlyShawn @ Oct 12th 2008 2:18PM]

*sigh* economic ignorance strikes again.

[Goatee Man @ Oct 12th 2008 2:56PM]

@Shawn:

Can you even spell "economics"?

This has nothing to do with one company being better than the other or GB wasting copper; it has to do with Asus spreading libel. If GB loses potential customers because of something Asus is saying that is completely irrelevent, untrue, or just downright stupid, that's wrong, and it completely defeats the purpose of this hopelessly idealistic economic theory you described. That's not to say that GB is completely innocent (as it says in the article, they were doing the same thing), but that doesn't make what Asus is doing any less stupid.

[Goatee Man @ Oct 12th 2008 2:58PM]

Augh... I read the comment wrong. Sorry, Shawn. It's too early in the morning...

[OnlyShawn @ Oct 12th 2008 9:42PM]

hahahaha...i was like...ummm...now *that's* a strange way to respond to my comment. :) thanks for the clearing up, mate.

[Tom @ Oct 13th 2008 1:44AM]

@Shawn:
There are two light bulb manufacturers - LitUp and Micro Sun.
There are two ingredients these manufacturers use in their filaments: Wowsium and Blahsium. Wowsium is a highly sought-after natural resource that has high prices and limited availability in the world. Blahsium seems to rain from the sky, with almost limitless availability and low costs.

LitUp makes a new bulb using 20% Blahsium and 80% Wowsium - they claim it's super bright and easy on your energy bill.
Micro Sun makes a bulb using 98% Blahsium and only 2% Wowsium. The output of light is comparably 10% brighter, and uses the same amount of energy to operate as LitUp's bulb.

Micro Sun has every right to call out LitUp on their wastefulness of a precious natural resource. Not only does the claim draw people to a superior product that uses less of a limited natural resource, but it also pushes LitUp to innovate and create new, lesser impacting products. Us, the consumer, get brighter and brighter bulbs that use easily attainable materials and operate with less cost to us in both purchasing of the bulb and purchasing of the energy.



So, how is this not healthy? I say more companies should do more of this - let the diesel hybrid VW Rabbit call out the other "high efficiency" cars rolling 30mpg. With a big ad campaign and good US availability that one car could push US manufacturers into creating competitive 70mpg cars for us. Good for the consumer, good (less bad than before, still bad) for the world.

[BananaBoat @ Oct 12th 2008 11:06AM]

My gigabyte board featuring 2oz of copper will be here Monday. I could care less about the copper; I was more interested in the additional mosfet cooling that Asus's boards don't have. As long as it'll let me get my E8500 to 4ghz, I'm fine. 8 case fans should take care of the rest.

[BananaBoat @ Oct 12th 2008 11:06AM]

Asus's similarly priced boards*

[Kris @ Oct 12th 2008 11:41AM]

According to ASUS that doesn't mean better cooling. You got ripped off!

(yes I believe everything I see on TV and the internet)

[BananaBoat @ Oct 12th 2008 12:00PM]

We shall see on Monday. Hopefully the additional ounce of copper will keep the board from bowing under the weight of the Xigmatek heatsink I'll be putting on it.

[vvtopkar @ Oct 12th 2008 12:43PM]

@Kris
You must be another Apple FanBoy!!!

[Aaron @ Oct 12th 2008 1:36PM]

Actually, you -couldn't- care less about the copper, judging from the context of your sentence.

[Major4Play @ Oct 12th 2008 3:05PM]

ASUS and Asrock are two different companies as of November 2007 so you all really do believe everything you read.
Encluding huge Engadget FAILS

[BananaBoat @ Oct 12th 2008 4:31PM]

No, I could care less. I think it's interesting, but it wasn't what made me decide to buy that particular P45 board. Mostly it was the fact I didn't want to spend 200 on the P5Q-Deluxe, and because I've heard terrible things about the P5Q-Pro (bad NIC, poor cooling for mosfets, bad audio, etc).

If UPS delivered on Saturday like Fedex, I'd have my board by now. Newegg's three shipping becomes five when you order on wednesday.

[Josh @ Oct 12th 2008 4:45PM]

If you're that concerned about your fets, just get a custom job..? It'd cool better anyway.

And DFI boards are known to be much better at pushing fsb than either ASUS or gigabyte. The mATX P45 model hits the wall at around 600fsb provided you can cool it..

Finally, you're moaning about price and you've got a case big enough for 8 fans? Sorry, but get your priorities sorted..

[BananaBoat @ Oct 12th 2008 6:23PM]

I got the Antec 1200 for 130, then added 2 more 120mm fans (total cost about 150). I looked at a couple DFI mobos, but they didn't really have any of the features that Asus and Gigabyte have (dual NIC's, redundant bios, instant on OS, etc). I'm not going for a really extreme OC, just 900mhz. I hope to do it without increasing the voltage, but we'll see how that goes.

This is a good time to purchase a mobo. Unless you need triple SLI, a sub 200 dollar motherboard is perfectly fine, including for OCing. Hell, this is a good time to build your own computer period. The E8500 and the E8400 are amazing for games (and only 160-180 bucks), ram is at all time lows (I picked up 4gb's of 1000mhz DDR2 at 4-4-4-12 for 60 bucks), and they are practically having to give away DVD burners. Not to mention that you can get an HD4850 for 150 bucks if you shop around, or a GTX 260/HD4870 for 250 if you shop around.

I just hope this motherboard turns out to be stable. The whole point of upgrading was that my old motherboard crapped out on me (a P35 MSI board). I realize it's probably not smart to buy something without reading any reviews (mobo just launched) but since I bought it from Newegg, it won't be a problem if it turns out to be a lemon. If this boards predecessor (the model number is too long to remember) is any indication, it should do 4ghz without much of a hassle, and it should be stable. If it's not, I'll just get one of those Asus Rampage motherboards that everyone raves about, or one of those FTW edition motherboards.

[BobTurbo @ Oct 12th 2008 7:46PM]

Err no, the term is "I couldn't care less", now STFU.

[--------- @ Oct 12th 2008 11:09AM]

I think this ad might backfire a little, 'cause all else being equal, I'd rather have the heavier copper content in my mobo.

[Samboini @ Oct 12th 2008 11:24AM]

Did you RTFA? More copper doesn't necessitate better cooling if your design is gash.

[morcheeba @ Oct 12th 2008 3:44PM]

The ad only describes one dimension - the thickness. There are two other dimensions, which could drastically affect the actual amount of copper in your board. And, for thermal dissipation, it's the shape of these traces that has the biggest effect - not the overall quantity (although having a lot of poorly placed traced will usually beat better placed sparse copper). So, basically, there isn't enough evidence yet as to copper or performance... so, I wouldn't worry. You could easily get more copper in a few of the components (big inductors) than the whole pc board.

[Smileypanda @ Oct 12th 2008 11:20AM]

Cheapo motherboards are now ECO motherboards.

[strider_mt2k @ Oct 12th 2008 11:43AM]

Well I'm a common working man
With a half of bitter -- bread and jam
And if it pleases me Ill put one on you man --

When the copper fades away.

[Andrew @ Oct 12th 2008 11:48AM]

For a second there I thought this was Gizmodo.

[strider_mt2k @ Oct 12th 2008 12:01PM]

I'm glad you gave yourself that extra second.
;)

[Shadyman @ Oct 12th 2008 7:55PM]

For a second there, I thought this was Engadget. Oh wait...

[strider_mt2k @ Oct 12th 2008 8:01PM]

Confusion in the ranks today.

Good luck with that, fellas.

[rento @ Oct 12th 2008 12:04PM]

And I thought this year US elections where bad...

[Sam Zebian @ Oct 12th 2008 12:05PM]

these are starting to remind me of the mac ads... except they kind of go a little overboard, especially that eeepc one. And I even have an eee 1000! It's like the mac people that say they don't even enjoy the mac ads,. PLus I am using both a Gigabyte board in my newly built hackintosh and an Asus in my main machine, so now IDK which is better. One's got good cooling but can't run OSX for shit (SLI board. Nvidia SLI boards are the worst for running OSX), the other's got pretty ok cooling but can run OSX almost flawlesly (It's a gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, one of the best Hackintosh boards around).

[Ricardo @ Oct 12th 2008 12:05PM]

Right, because the number of Eee models on the market isn't "excessive".

[Me @ Oct 12th 2008 12:22PM]

Umm, the *LOWEST* temperature on the P45TS is lower then the Gigabyte one? That doesn't really tell you anything. Not having extra copper should help to localize heat (remember Gigabyte is trying to spread it around), so you could easily have areas of a board that are cooler since heat doesn't get to them as efficiently.

A thermal map like Gigabyte's or even an average temperature would be more telling.

[Kueller @ Oct 12th 2008 3:49PM]

Absolutely right, the temperature differentials will be greater on the 1oz ASRock PCB, the lowest temperature will be lower than the 2oz Gigabyte PCB, and the highest temperature (around the hottest components, where you don't want the heat) will be higher. You can clearly see in the infrared pictures there that the lower-right sections are where most of the heat is, that th ASRock board has a higher temperature in that area, getting reds and purples while the Gigabyte stays mostly yellow-orange.

This is just another marketing schmuck demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of thermodynamics. And since we're on the subject of copper conservation, the 1oz of copper saved is equivalent to about 2/3 of an inch of standard 3/4" copper plumbing pipe.

[BOGRASH @ Oct 12th 2008 12:43PM]

The competition is hotting up!

[TRAFFICBLOWS @ Oct 12th 2008 3:26PM]

hmm, heating up?

[Samboini @ Oct 12th 2008 5:55PM]

Well if you want to get pun-tillectual it is more like cooling down. You fool.

[Ethan @ Oct 12th 2008 1:00PM]

If games companies made press releases like that it would save a whole lot of time in this comment box. Mainly joystiq's though.

[why not the LS2LS7? @ Oct 12th 2008 1:04PM]

Using more copper in a flood plane (like the ground plane) is a completely legit way to spread out heat. ASUS may not do it, they may instead use larger or more separately attached aluminum heatsinks (or just not have as effective heat dissipation). Note that aluminum has risen in price too.

Note that you can add as much copper (or anything) to a board and it won't "reduce the heat" (as the article says) produced by the board. It'll just help dissipate the heat better.

This beef is stupid. As mentioned above, if this is really a poor way to do it, Gigabyte will lose in the marketplace, no need to whine about it.

[htd @ Oct 12th 2008 1:32PM]

what a waste of working hours....

[Shade @ Oct 15th 2008 4:30PM]

Suddenly I feel an urge to go out and buy a hummer, and drive it across the united states, and buy motherboards, and set them all on fire.

[Michael B @ Oct 12th 2008 1:56PM]

Yea, well, my dad's PCB is better then your dad's

[zomg0t @ Oct 12th 2008 4:23PM]

I generally don't attempt to take peaks at others' PCBs you sick fuck!

[Major4Play @ Oct 12th 2008 3:03PM]

Actually Mr. Miller not to rain on your parade but Asrock was spun off from ASUS and floated on the stock market in November 2007.
It is therefore not a part of ASUS and has nothing to do with the Eeepc or any other ASUS product.
Why can't engadget's bloggers bother to even google their "facts" as your whole article now has no point and makes no sense.

[kyle allen @ Oct 12th 2008 3:49PM]

because we have better things to do with our time.... hahaha im just kidding

[taz @ Oct 12th 2008 3:22PM]

Does ASUS or ASRocks compatible with the EFI-X Dongle???
NO

Thank you!

[Patrick @ Oct 12th 2008 6:42PM]

Does your comment grammatically make sense???
NO

Thank you!