MacBook and MacBookPro suffer performance anxiety once the battery is removed

Are you one of those thrifty-types who's always looking for an angle, always trying to stretch every last penny? You know who we're talking about: Montel Williams bases whole episodes around you, the kind of person who reuses tea bags and separates sheets of triple-ply paper towels. Unfortunately, it now looks like you now have one less trick at your disposal. According to Zach Honig over at Gearlog, running your MacBook or MacBookPro without its battery (trying to squeeze out an extra month or two of battery life) will cause a significant performance decrease: we're talking upwards of 40 percent. When he checked Apple's knowledgebase, it turns out that this is by design -- processor speed is reduced when the machine detects that its relying solely on A/C to prevent it from demanding more power than the adapter alone can provide (and any nasty shutdowns that would result). We don't know if we buy this line of reasoning, but one thing is certain: if you know what's good for you, you'll leave that battery where it belongs.

[Mike @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:32AM]

As far as I know, this is what's happened to Apple laptops for a while. It happened on my 17" PowerBook as well.

[MAtt @ Nov 22nd 2008 11:11AM]

Not on my Powerbook 15 it doesn't.

[mikron2 @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:28PM]

I have a macbook with the intel core duo and it does it. I called apple support about it about 2 years ago and they said the same thing that it is designed that way...now they are sending me a new battery for free because I only get an hour out of it when it's not plugged in.

[fyrefly @ Nov 22nd 2008 3:21PM]

This has happened with Apple Portables ever since the move to intel, and possibly before. Why is this suddenly news?

[ArcticFox @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:31AM]

Only Apple cant produce something thats so ridiculously wrong and people can call it a "feature".

Why include a powersupply for a laptop that it cant guarantee to give it all the power it needs?

[ArcticFox @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:32AM]

"Only Apple can" I suck at spelling.

[Samboini @ Nov 22nd 2008 5:08AM]

But surely even when both the battery and the AC cord is in, the same problem will arise? AFAIK, your laptop (whatever brand) will always juice the mains over a battery, thus wouldn't it be that the MacBook is still unable to operate at full speed?

[Bobby @ Nov 22nd 2008 5:54AM]

Jobs is pathetic trying to squeeze few cents on cheapo power supply.
For that price he should offer two power supplies.

[adrian @ Nov 22nd 2008 6:24AM]

@ArticFox

I have to agree, That is a weak defence.

[loocas @ Nov 22nd 2008 6:58AM]

Amen, ArcticFox...

[Ignatius @ Nov 22nd 2008 7:26AM]

Guess Sony and Apple have been getting along, severe oversights are now known as features.

[Neg @ Nov 22nd 2008 7:51AM]

This actually occurs because some of the voltage regulators used to power the machine are inside the battery.

This sort of slow-down occurs on most systems - but on many windows systems it is implemented badly and merely causes system instability and malfunctions.

Remove the battery and you remove some of the power regulators, and therefore some of the supply capability, and therefore system processing power.

--neg

[Josh @ Nov 22nd 2008 8:02AM]

It's annoying but i wouldn't be THAT fussed about an extra 2 months of battery life. By the time you get to that point, a month or two will make sod all difference - you'll be shopping for a new one anyway.

This wont' affect the majority of most users since they're not likely to run their laptop on AC only. In any case, with the magsafe connector it'd be easy enough to just drop the power by mistake and lose everything you had running.

However.. the power consumption ranges from around 20-50W i believe. They provide a 60W adaptor, so how can it draw more than the adaptor can handle?

[Bryant @ Nov 22nd 2008 9:57AM]

@Neg

Hate to disprove your theory, but I've run my dell e1705 rendering videos in AfterEffects overnight on just AC power. There was no system instability whatsoever, nor was there a performance drop.

Steve's excuse here only serves to justify that Apple suppliments macbooks with poor power supplies.

[nerdtalker @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:03PM]

Translation from apple-speak: "We've been bundling the same underpowered 85 and 65 watt power supplies for the last century to save on production costs. You just haven't noticed until now"

That is terrible, absolutely terrible. Does running windows XP/vista in bootcamp remove the underclocking? A lot of that kind of stuff is done in software.

[Harkonian @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:07PM]

I don't get it...why is the reply from Neg ranked down? It seems like a valid analysis. Anyone want to clue me in?

[UnixSystemsEngineer @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:41PM]

This simply doesn't make sense, and I doubt the provided excuse (about the system drawing too much power) is true. The implication is that the power supply is so weak that it won't charge the laptop while the system is on an under load, which is absurd. Maybe they want to make sure you don't have a catastrophic power loss, though I don't know how reducing CPU speed would help this. Anyone who's used one knows MagSafe is very easy to unplug, so I'd be afraid to run my system sans battery. I know people who run laptops without battery, but I never have.

Someone needs to add up the power consumption of the components and compare it to the wattage of the power supply. Or compare the MacBooks to PC laptops with the same specs, and see what wattage power adapters are available with both.

I have the opposite problem -- the 90W power supply on my Thinkpad charges the battery like no other, but I can't use it on Virgin America. If I plug in the laptop with the system powered off, it seems to charge. But if I try to run the system at the same time, it keeps tripping the automated circuit breaker and takes out power for the whole row of 6 seats.

[UnixSystemsEngineer @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:46PM]

Harkonian -- I dunno. I ranked him up after struggling to read the grey post and figure out what was so offensive. By the way, I guess this more-power-than-AC-can-provide is pretty common practice on other laptops as well, at least according to comments I see on page 3. So I take back what I said about doubting that it's true :)

[LondonConsultant @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:47PM]

Apparently 20% of the new MacBooks automatically self-combust after 2 hours continuous use (often also dispersing weaponised radioactive material). Apple confirmed this feature as prompting users to take regularly ergonomic breaks from intensive work. Apple fans expressed incredulity at the ensuing negative publicity as the feature is clearly a benefit to overworked end users - and further validation of their choice to buy Apple products.

[Smileypanda @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:51PM]

I love British people call outlets "mains."
That is all I have to offer on this subject.

[Jay @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:57PM]

Hey but is apple, im sure it will be forgiven

[Shadow08 @ Nov 22nd 2008 1:22PM]

Exactly. This is absolute B/S. If this really were the case, how the hell would the battery be able to remain fully charged even while plugged in? Also, talk about dumb design and putting unnecessary wear and tear on the battery. Count on Apple to purposely destroy the units batteries so you have to buy more.

I'd also love to see the tone this post would be written in if HP or Dell had a laptop that did this.

[Andrew @ Nov 22nd 2008 2:02PM]

Its probably true that the power supply is the problem but thats because Apple ships these laptops with the smallest power supplies I have ever seen for a laptop.

This IS a feature, the feature being that you dont have to lug around a heavy bulky AC adaptor everywhere you go, these are portables after all. the only tradeoff is that you have to leave the battery in which for 99% of users is not a problem at all.

[BigD145 @ Nov 22nd 2008 2:24PM]

The point is, Apple wants you to brick your battery as fast as possible so you'll either buy a new laptop or at least buy a new battery and make sure Apple has to install it.

[cj @ Nov 22nd 2008 3:16PM]

I'm with Bryant in this one.

I turn on my dell computer 24/7 without battery and don't turn it off...
But I've never seen instability or a slowdown. So why should a laptop that that costs 100s of dollars more do that?

I say that's crappy design disguised as another 'apple innovation'.

[konshuss @ Nov 22nd 2008 3:55PM]

what's the big deal? apple users are quite happy having devices where you CAN'T remove the battery... ol' Bones Jobs is just giving you all another reason to embrace the idea ;)

[chansthename @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:04PM]

ASUS actually offers this as a feature using their program power4gear. Thing is it's user customisable, so say in my battery saving mode on power I have the CPU at 10% for downloading and on high performance it's always at 100% for gaming. This saves a lot of battery on my G1s. it even tunes down the vista effects such as transparency on battery mode to save further power. great software but Apple just screwed up AGAIN.

[jacen2141 @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:19PM]

This isn't even news. The previous gens had the same issue. I don't even know what the big fuss is about.

[Tom @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:50PM]

My ThinkPad X200 does this same thing too... so it's not restricted to the Macbooks. I thought I was loony at first, and this 9-cell batt isn't light.

[Lance @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:33AM]

Very disappointing Apple.......why must you create such glorious products with the zaniest of flaws!

[Alex @ Nov 22nd 2008 11:07AM]

As an Apple hater, I can say this is a perfectly normal situation. Laptops are usually designed this way, so that if the processor / graphics card are drawing more power than the A/C adapter can handle, it'll drain the battery a bit as well. (That might sound dangerous, but it's sustainable because the drain on the battery is so slow, and the computer would never need to use the battery power for so long that the battery ran out.)

[RikF @ Nov 22nd 2008 3:36PM]

If so little power is required from the battery then a slightly better power supply would be able to cover the difference. This still makes no sense.

[Jeff @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:38AM]

Ahhh! Please don't remove my battery! I'm shyyy.

[Uncontrol @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:40AM]

This has always been the case.

[loocas @ Nov 22nd 2008 11:26AM]

Yet another "bag of hurt" for making an AC power supply to actually supply power?!

[Derek @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:40PM]

You can change the settings under the battery menu on the top bar...

[Gnormie @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:43AM]

Wait an AC adapter that may not actually be able to meet the laptops needs? That is seriously idiotic, the AC adapter should always be able to provide any and all the power a laptop needs to run, because funnily enough that is what it is there for!

Seriously Apple... I love the new look of these Macbooks but the mounting list of problems is just getting to the stage where it looks like you didn't put any thought into anything but the looks.

[Fernando @ Nov 22nd 2008 8:38AM]

Ummmm I have seen d820's and precisions that do this also. So stop your whining cause Apple is not the only one that does this. The D8x0 series can run on a 65W PS with the battery plugged in and it's fine but if you take the battery out you will need the 90W one, it even goes as far as to charge the thing slower with the 65W PS plugged in. Same goes for the precision's 90W and 120W. And those D series power supplies are like Cars compared to Apple's PS.

[eric f. @ Nov 22nd 2008 10:12AM]

There are more things to consider. What if you're plugged in somewhere that has inconsistent voltage?

[CraigJ @ Nov 22nd 2008 10:47AM]

Agrees with Fernando. In fact, my D820 with a drained battery installed running on the 65W PS would drop down to 630MHz (it was a 1.8 Ghz machine) until the battery was fully charged. I learned this when I had to do a presentation / demo where the software was in a virtual image. In front of 200 people and the damn image took 10 minutes to boot and then wouldn't run for shit.

I would prefer that Apple provided a 90 watt PS, but Apple is by no means unique in this department. Engineers design this stuff to be used in specific scenarios, and that's the way it is.

Anyway, the replacement battery for the current 17inch MBP is $129 from the Apple store, and I figure the one for the new Mac Book will be about the same. Based on the spec of this machine and what I do with it I expect it to last me about 4 years. In a couple of years I might need a new battery. Its going to cost me about $130 from Apple, or probably less than $100 from a 3rd party. This would be the same for a Dell or HP, etc, so why is everyone bitching about this?

[Gnormie @ Nov 22nd 2008 10:53AM]

So because everyone else does it, it gives Apple an excuse to? I thought Apple was supposed to be a premium brand or something?

Regardless every laptop I've owned from Toshiba, Asus and Samsung came bundled with an AC adapter that didn't impact performance if it was used to solely run the machine.

It's a little illogical to use battery + AC adpater to run a laptop anyhow, since if the AC adapter can't supply the laptop with enough juice to run at full tilt, how could it be expected to keep the battery at a level to run the laptop as such? Since if that was the case the battery would eventually run out of charge even when plugged into mains.

[CraigJ @ Nov 22nd 2008 11:28AM]

"how could it be expected to keep the battery at a level to run the laptop as such? Since if that was the case the battery would eventually run out of charge even when plugged into mains."

This is a good question. I believe that the Power Management system will only allow the battery to get down to about 20% (or there abouts, maybe 10%?) actual charge before it shuts down the system to avoid completely draining the battery which would damage it. Since there is always a charge in the battery, and since the computer doesn't pull peak wattage all the time, the PM system will pull a little extra juice from the battery when needed, but charge it when the system is using less that peak power. None of this really impacts the life of the battery significantly. What impacts the battery life more is the heat generated by the system.

I don't like to run my laptop without the battery installed because, well, it's a laptop. If it's AC only I'd need to shut it down to move it, or (put the battery in hot which is probably a bad idea) Of if it some how gets unplugged it will crash which a lot more likely with a laptop, especially with the mag safe adapter, which is a feature I like.

[gentux @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:44AM]

Nothing new, every MacBook did this even my 2 year old MacBook Pro with Core Duo processor.

Besides, if the power brick was bigger, it would be annoying to carry with.

And thinking of the MagSafe it's a bad idea to run the laptop without the battery in it.

[Andie @ Nov 22nd 2008 6:01AM]

I've kinda liked HP's approach where they ship a small 65W AC adapter with their quite reasonably priced 12-cell Ultra Capacity battery. I use to carry that around with me and keep the original power brick that came with the laptop at home. When I plug in the 65W adapter, it does throw a warning saying that this adapter might not be able to provide enough juice for all uses, but I've never encountered such a situation even when burning a DVD with WiFi and Bluetooth on and display on max brightness.

And thinking of the battery's life time in my desktop-replacement laptop that runs on AC 98% of the time, it's certainly a bad idea to keep the battery always in it.

[DYZOU @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:48AM]

Apple did this on previous generation Macbooks too...

[Jack H @ Nov 22nd 2008 12:25PM]

yeah ive noticed right after doing my battery drains every once in a while my White MB is wayyyyy slower than if it was on full charge or near it

[Boards of Canada @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:49AM]

No other brand is doing that kind of self limitations... why? weird. Im quite happy with my toshiba anyway. I've got what I paid for and its perfect for my needs. Apple know what they are doing I guess... finding more ways to make sure you buy another laptop in 2 years when your warranty expire.

[matt @ Nov 22nd 2008 3:23PM]

Actually, if you read other reports in these comments, you'll see that many other manufacturers do just the same thing. It's not just apple - but it's 'news' when apple does it.

[AJR @ Nov 22nd 2008 4:52AM]

You know as I've had my frustrations with Vista I've considered saving up for some kind of Apple Mac. However over the last month I've become less and less likely of even considering that special Mac that would have had my name all over it. Apple is just having soooo many problems lately

[Skyride @ Nov 22nd 2008 6:51AM]

AJR, what problems with vista? Thats an actual question, not a bash. I really am genuinely interested. Check out linux if your not happy with windows. Ubuntu is a good start. But certainly, CERTAINLY don't go mac. They have just as many issues its just the fanboys put up with it.