Apparent Xbox 360 "Jasper" spotted in the wild
By Donald Melanson 
posted Nov 27th 2008 4:48PM
posted Nov 27th 2008 4:48PM
We've had some false alarms in the past, but it looks like the first Jasper-equipped Xbox 360s may now finally be starting to make their way out into the wild. While there unfortunately still aren't any pictures of the motherboard to completely put this thing to rest, everything else certainly seems to be pointing in the right direction, including a 150W power supply (25W less than the current models), a manufacturing date of 2008-10-23, an 0843X lot number, and a power adapter that most definitely won't fit in a Falcon console -- head on past the break for a pic of it. Now, anyone feel like cracking open some cases?
Update: Picture of the guts now posted over at xbox-scene. Interestingly, it appears that the new mobo brings 256MB onboard flash memory (up from 16MB). Those look like 65-nm process chips to you?
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
Update: Picture of the guts now posted over at xbox-scene. Interestingly, it appears that the new mobo brings 256MB onboard flash memory (up from 16MB). Those look like 65-nm process chips to you?
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
Interesting.
What a shit first comment.
What a shit second comment.
Yes, it is interesting. New model, though I see no major cosmetic changes on the 360 itself from what I can see.
Not really, even at 150w, it's still a tonne more than a PS3, which is between 90w - 110w, in it's current 65nm/65nm configuration, and moving to 45nm very soon.
The big question, is will these 360s finally work? I somehow doubt it.. It's clear Microsoft havn't got a clue to make hardware, and Sony have a very good clue..
Who cares if it draws more power, at least there are games worth playing on it.
I have a theory that the reason we're seeing so many broken 360's is not because they are badly manufactured, but because they are so damned fun to play that people just play them to death!
Its also very clear ddd doesnt have good grammar.
Over on the Xbox-Scene website, Moddage took his new Jasper model apart and posted pictures:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EkkZlFAyyZZXEKjatA.php
Both CPU and GPU both 65nm on Jasper revision, therefore: less power, cooler, quieter (have to see how DVD-ROM drive does).
Plus, Jaspers now have 256MB flash onboard rather than a memory card.
my bro will be so pissed, he just bought an xbox in order to beat the crowd on fri
If he is going to use his Xbox as a weapon anyway, surely the model number won't matter to much? After all, one hit to the head off an Xbox, and you've had them all.
As long as your brother has a new Xbox 360 with the HDMI included in the chipset he'll be fine because those have almost no chance of RROD...
So? Just have him return it ASAP. Shouldn't matter if it's opened or sealed, depending on the store where he had purchased it.
Beat the crowd? He has has 3 years... 360 is last years news...
Whatever happened to talking to deal with issues? what about making love? He should make love to all those guys.
Platinum_Skeet:
Actually, all Elites have HDMI and the early ones had horrendously high RROD rates. Even higher than the rest of the Xboxes if that's even possible.
If you get a Falcon (175W), you should do okay though, at least in terms of the RROD. You're more likely to have optical drive problems.
I just had an E74, the 4th quadrant ROD. It's the same GPU melting problem. But I towel trick'd it, and it came back to life, for now hopefully.
My Xbox had an HDMI, but wasn't Elite.
shame it cant play games as good as my appletv
microsoft sux.
O WAT?
It doesn't play DVDs as well as my Segway either.
I'm Jackie Chan and I approve that comment.
I'm Chuck Norris and I DISAPPROVE yours :)
I like turtles.
This series of comments should be preserved for posterity as example of what most comment threads degenerate into.
Oh it can still degenerate further, we haven't seen Godwin's Law come into effect yet
*hrm* apple...microsoft...turtles...NAZI GERMANY! need it be made clearer, sheeple? damn police state...
Lucky. I'd personally ask them if it's quieter.
Who cares at this point really?
Microsoft has shown that even if your hardware is crap for three years, there are still people stupid enough to stay loyal to your product. And they call Apple and Nintendo fanboys delusional.
Hi Hater!
Microsoft has shown that one major detractor isn't enough to deter people if you get almost everything else right - large games library, lots of (albeit mediocre) exclusives, good online service etc. And to be really honest, very few of the newer consoles RROD anymore, I know quite a few people with RROD'ed Xbox's and they are all pretty much the machines bought on launch day (PS3 owner here btw).
Apple has shown that no matter what insane price you charge, no matter what sub par hardware you use, no matter how dangerous your products can be and no matter how secretive and anti-competitive you are that there are still people willing to say that Apple products are good value for money.
I believe MS has brought the failure rate of the 360 WAY down since the initial ~30% failure rate it started at. Last year I recall reading that it was a single digit failure rate now. So I wouldn't say they've been providing shit hardware for 3 years.
And even if your 360 does RROD (slim chance if you pick one up today) you're covered for 3 years with a solid warranty. Mine RROD'd last march and I had it back in less than a week.
And any fanboy is delusional. MS fanboys are delusional, nintendo, Sony, mac, Nikon, Canon... pepsi fanboys. All delusional. If you can't even see any negatives in your product of choice, or any positives in a competing product... that's delusion... or ignorance.
Have to disagree with you there Weggles, not all fanboys are delusional. Pepsi is waaaaay better than Coke ;-)
I just traded in my launch core console to get the arcade (new chipset falcon was way better and HDMI) I just looked at everything looks like I got a Jasper. The thing makes no noise at all It's completely quiet when I am playing L4D (it's installed) plus it doesn't get all heated up either.... I just got it Tuesday... From the gamestop my brother works at and this was part of the shipment they got in for the Black Friday sales.
Mine's not a Jasper, but it is an HDMI model. Compared to my last Xbox 360 (Which is sitting in Microsoft's repair shop as we speak), this thing is whisper quiet. My old 360 would sound like a windtunnel, to the point that my roommates were complaining about it. Power supply's also noisy as hell too.
Hopefully, no RRoD on this one.
Does your console have the 150W PSU? Just because it's quiet doesn't make it a Jasper, especially since the Falcon consoles are also very quiet.
Maybe another attempt at Microsoft to stop people using 3rd party accessories?
The intercooler goes between the xbox and power cable, so they'll suffer "financial difficulties"
Also, intercoolers suck bawls anyway, so no loss.
I think you could make it like pokemon cards... put a little "Jasper" engraved below the logo on the side of the console. I can imagine a LOT of people wanting that on the side of the xbox.
Hopefully they've moved the GPU, no?
I havn't gotten another Xbox before I traded my core in for a the Arcade I just got but I noticed the power brick was considerably lighter...
The Xbox360 progress more and more reminds me of state of PC industry and Windows: "here, here, look! with this upgrade()s and this patch(es) it will finally work well!!!"
In my eyes, way MSFT handles its hardware's QA defies the whole purpose of game console.....
Are you trying to say that consoles shouldn't get hardware/software updates? Most every console as far as I can remember has had them to fix problems/increase functionality....even the NES was a hardware revision.
I'll wait for the software patch for your comments before replying. Reading that mauled English just gives me a headache.
Let's look at some common everyday items that require updates to improve the product.
Iphone / Iphone 3G = check (Not to mention just about every cellphone)
AppleTV = check
PS3 = Check
Xbox360 = check
Nintendo Wii = Check
..... The list goes on. (I think you get the picture)
One thing that may need an patch is your brain.
I have a Falcon Elite and I didn't RROD but I still had to send mine in. Instead of Ring of Death it would just freeze randomly. I bet it was the DVD-ROM so nothing can stop this thing from breaking. If it is not one thing it is another. I am on my 4th 360 now. I gave the original to a friend and bought an ELITE after the original broke for the second time. Still it is pathetic that happens at all. This never happens with my PS3.
Your experience is exactly what I wanted to avoid and makes me super happy that I bought a PS3.
I've had my 360 since launch and no issues other than the DVD drive is starting to go. On the other hand, my roommate's got a RROD on his launch console after about 2 years. The only noticeable difference is that his got used about twice as much as mine, and it was in a slightly more confined space with worse airflow.
Finally! Now why it took THREE YEARS to get to this point???
I am glad I bought one a year after launch (when Gears came out), judging correctly that the new one won't be out for a long while and I might as well enjoy the games.
What the hell are you talking about? My launch console has been great.
i just think some people are hard on their consoles. I have 2 launch consoles, bought months apart, and have never had a problem with either one.
I was not hard on my console. It has plenty of air and I really had not used it very much. It was not even a year old. I agree hardware can break but it should not happen multiple times in a short time period. Microsoft rushed this console to production and obviously they knew of these issue but released it anyway. That is what bothers me.
ALL hardware has issues, no matter who makes it. It's par for the course, electrics fail.
I'm on my 6th 360 and 4th PS3, and hardly use the bloomin PS3 as can't stand the controller (anyone know a ps3 controller that's not designed for 11 year old Japanese kids?)
Anyhow, live with it, it's the way hardware is made nowadays, everything is 'throw away' at the end of the day.
I'm still on my original wii.
Same with my ps3... but what you don't understand is that these people wouldn't be on the their 2nd or 3nd or even 4th 360 if the system wasn't incredible. We all wish these problems weren't here but as gamers we measure the pros and the cons, and trust me there is a reason why we keep coming back.
Don't even get me started on the wii... all i have to say is that i am surprised more wiis haven't broken due to all that dust gathering up...
@iCoy
Man, that was the most intelligent comment I have seen today.
The thing might be like shit, it is a shame that someone should give us "crappy" HW (yes, I have two, and one of them has been sent back for repairs twice, free of course), but people keep playing on it, and I probably will be playing on it forever even if I have to go buy one every year. I've my mind up so I consider this device a service that hits my wallet for less than 200 every year (+60 for subscription), and it looks fair to me (mostly preferable to keeping the pace with every iteration of Mr. Jobs' products)
I have tried the three of them, and for what I really rank a gaming experience, it's games and the ability to do REAL TIME worldwide online gaming, I rate it really high in comparision with the Wii (irrelevant) and the somehow lame PS3 (it makes me cry when I play GT5 P. and I see the other cars disappearing and appearing anywhere in front o me, even of people I know that live in my very same city)
So the thing is, it is good to hear that the HW might be improving, at least for the ones that care or will care, but guys, we are getting old for these shit of fanboys revisiting their love of hate for brands (why care???), that as som smart people point out here, is so sad that makes our love for the human being a waste of time
Let people be
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=668104
i remember back in '98, my ps1 used to crash when playing gran turismo (grand valley speedway in reverse/last hairpin) and sony wanted me to pay £42 quid to have it repaired. Looking back at that, the fact that ms are willing to do it for free for a machine that is so much more complex is to be honest a bargain. I think that also with the 'install to hd' feature it has made my gaming experience with the 360 really enjoyable because I hated the noise the machine made when i purchased it around late august of this year BTW mine is the elite model. At the end of the day when compared to the automobile industry and their recalls it just shows that it can happen in any of the industries. But I have always had this theory that the reason that we gamers have had such a devastating amount of RROD is that MS were terrified of SONY getting in before them so irrespective of wether the machine had passed QC, they released knowing that there will be problems and had they not done that, i can honestly say the RROD would not be synonymous with MS and sales/reputation would have been much higher.
giveitaway @ Nov 27th 2008 8:33PM
"i remember back in '98, my ps1 used to crash when playing gran turismo (grand valley speedway in reverse/last hairpin) and sony wanted me to pay £42 quid to have it repaired. Looking back at that, the fact that ms are willing to do it for free for a machine that is so much more complex is to be honest a bargain."
----------
Fixing something that was designed and/or manufactured broken is either a bargain or a very slow reaction to the growing voices of discontent on abnormally high failure rates.
Personally, I rate bargains as something well worth the money and that generally don't break down, giving years of trouble-free service.
Huh, The 360 draws just too much power to work in our Grand Cherokee, I would love to be able to play GTA 4 in the car, but its not worth picking up a third 360 for.
I have a 360 that was manufactured in September of 2006 (no HDMI, no extra cooling, nada) and it's still chugging along the same as it was the day I brought it home.
The worst thing that's probably happened to it is the dashboard hanging and requiring that I turn off the console via yank-cord-out-of-the-wall.
Maybe I'm just lucky, I don't know.
Shame I won't be getting in on these updated ones for a while.
I'm glad we got some actual proof of a Jasper this time. Ive got a Falcon so this won't make me run out and buy a new box but it cool to know that they are out there now.
Can't wait to see someone crack one of these boxes open so we can see what the differences are.
Funny you should say that... Look at kjk's post ...
there's the link to the second thread i started..
It's opened up now! :) enjoy
So apparently.. i didn't realize that i had to confirm the first post i made.. so yeah.. this is a few posts too late because of that haha..
anyway.. yeah. it's been cracked open.. :) i had fun doing it too
Obviously named after GamesMasterJasper, a true hero of Gaming.
Semper Games.
So considering my parents don't usually do their shopping more than a week before Christmas, I'd say the odds of the 360 that I should be getting being a Jasper sound pretty good. If they're hitting the supply stream now, and alot of the existing Falcons will be gone tomorrow, its definately more likely that the new ones will be on alot more shelves by the time mom goes to get it.
The case has been cracked (literally!) It is a confirmed Jasper!
How to find a Jasper console guide: http://forums.xbox.com/24344540/ShowPost.aspx
Nice! thanks for giving me and Scoldingice credit man..
I really wish i would have watermarked those pics in the beginning.. oh well.. at least you were cool and gave credit that's very honorable!
i saw your little collection of power plugs.. I'm going to take hi-res shots of the ones on the jasper right now .. i'll post in the ongoing thread and link back
Okay .. new pics up of the connector and the plug..
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=668104&view=findpost&p=4384430
I wanted to be sure I gave proper credit, especially since your original pics weren't labeled in anyway. I also gave you credit on my Photobucket account with a caption on each pic.
I just bought a Last Remnant Xbox 360 at my local ビクカメラ... That power adapter looks like mine... I have a 360 over in the States and my JP one runs SUPER quiet compared to my friend's wife's launch 360. I'm going to check as soon as I get home from work!!!
I'm not buying another Microsoft console until they prove they've fixed the reliability. After my 360 went tits up (GPU error) which wasn't covered by warranty, I sold it on eBay for scrap and will be auctioning the games soon.
Pity, because it has a decent library. But at least my PS3 plays BD and actually works.
Amen to that. I'm in the same boat as you with a dead X360 that MS won't touch because it's not RRoD. I really do like their library of games but their hardware is a joke.
and the same question is, will it still RROD? or can we say that after 3 years they got rid of it. further testing its needed to see if its reliable
The fact they stuck the ram chips on the bottom of the Jasper motherboard and have zero thermal dissipating solutions being utilized for those bottom mounted chips, I can almost guarantee that RROD'ing will still be an on going issue. Microsoft never bloody learns.
You'd think with them making $840,000,000 a year off Xbox Live subscribers they could hire or throw some money towards designing hardware that isn't crap. Oh wait, I forgot half that money get's thrown to developers as long as they keep focusing on the Xbox and nothing else (which I feel personally is a dirty thing to do, since it makes them clearly look like they feel insecure that if they don't obtain the developers dedication they'll quickly loose grounds if there competitors get better titles).
If anything, Microsoft has proven this, they can get away with making and selling sub-par crappie quality hardware and morons are stupid enough to keep buying the same poorly designed product expecting the next one they buy will magically be immune to the problems that exist on a massive scale.
Really I feel Microsoft has shown their true colors of how they operate. Make a crappie tool, bribe/steal/force all the builders to make products that only utilize that tool and sit back and laugh. Sprinkle a little money here and there and continue you laugh.
I don't know.. It's frustrating. I wish I could slap every person involved in the xbox 360's development in the face for putting millions of people through problems that SHOULD NOT exist at the scale they are at/have been at. I'm not really impressed with their "buy the love of the developers" tactics either. It's smart from a strategy perspective but also looks like they have absolutely no confidence that their product will take flight naturally without intervention.... Reminds me of kinda pushing a wheel down hill or something, just stupidity. I'd rather see money go to make good hardware versus having to buy 7 consoles to play games on in between failures.
They pay for exclusivity to help cover or reduce the losses the developer would incur by not releasing on a different platform. There's only two reasons a developer is willing, and should be willing, to do a platform specific game or DLC, whathaveyou: 1) They're being paid to make up for the money they'd make by releasing it on multiple platforms or 2) The extra time and money it'd cost to develop for another platform is prohibitive. Very rarely do any developers (I doubt ever) decide to stick to a single platform because of "loyalty" (unless you mean "loyalty" as in being owned by Sony or Microsoft), no matter what one or two people might say. It's a business decision and if they weren't getting paid, and didn't have a legal obligation or technical/financial/time constraint, all developers would release their wares multiplatform to maximize profits. It's a winning situation for everybody (developers, microsoft, and 360 owners) when exclusivity is paid for; the only people who lose out are those who don't have 360s.
I'm no fanyboy of Microsoft, I'd say the same thing about Sony or Nintendo. It's just silly to see people using that as a reason to villify Microsoft. Stick to the other points of your argument, as they have much more validity.
"I'm not really impressed with their "buy the love of the developers" tactics either."
Sony does it, too. Unless you can come up with another reason none of the big Playstation devs would work on the Dreamcast? It also explains why games that were previously Sony only are going multi-platform, lately. Sony can't pay enough to make it worth it to them. For that matter, Nintendo did it with Resident Evil 4 and a few other Capcom releases and I am sure Sega did it back in the old days, as well. It's a good business strategy, overall, even if it does screw the consumer in the long run.
Sure the ram chip generates tons of heat that's why I don't ever like to touch my PS2 memory cards while the console is on. Are you kidding me the ram chip was never a problem in causing RROD but you don't have a clue about technology judging from your comment. By the way the 360 always had internal memory they just increased it from 16MB to 256MB in the Jasper models.
@ Chris Hu
You just lost all credibility, shows what YOU know. I wasn't talking about the memory used for storage. I was referring to the system memory. Next time put a little effort into figuring out what people are talking about before shooting your mouth off, ok?...
I know what types of memory you where talking about baka. Like I said before the memory never was a problem in causing the RROD those where caused by the GPU and CPU overheating. Blaming the system memory for causing RROD is like blaming the gas tank on a car for a overheated automobile engine. The system memory draws little to no energy in the 360 and therefore cannot overheat.
@ Chris Hu
Funny part is I can't recall saying the memory was ever remotely the soul or even part of the cause of ANY RROD. And just for your record, anyone that is even the smallest way technically intelligent would know it's the CPU and GPU that caused the issues.
I stimulated a fact, they stopped putting chips on the bottom of the board, now they decided to go back and do it again (repeating mistakes), this time ignorantly not using anything to get rid of the heat generated by those chips. The fact they are so ignorant to that, I can guarantee the RROD days are not over, because god only knows what can come up next to cause RROD.
Besides, even you admitted memory chips get hot, and I can guarantee you 4 chips sandwiched into a tight little space with zero air flow almost getting to them will cause extensive heat build up and with zero heat removal solutions being utilized in addition to no air flow, will just zapped those chips life span and significantly hinder the performance.
Save your breath mate. For someone who tries to appear technically capable, you're quickly ignorant to not considering simple facts.
I never admitted that the memory chips get hot apparently you lack the knowledge to comprehend and understand basic English. I say it again the internal memory never was and never will be the cause of the RROD problem. And where they put none heat generating chips on the console makes no difference for all I care they can put them on the outside of the console.
Also reading your previous comments on this site I see that you are one of those Sony Fanboys that thinks that everything Sony makes is the best thing since sliced bread. Trust me Sony is far from perfect when it comes to making quality electronics no wonder Samsung is kicking Sony's ass on a daily basis. Both the PS1 and the PS2 had numerous hardware problems but I guess you have been living on the moon for the past 12 years and never heard of DRE or having to turn you console upside down in order to play a game.
@ Chris Hu
LMFAO - Will you get lost and stop wasting both yours and my time? It seems like you got nothing better to do with your time then scour Engadget for my past humorous comments and try to use them to turn the tide of this little 'game' that you've started. Go get a hobbie or a job or a girl friend to poke. You're genuinely a joke.
Maybe you should learn grammar: "I say it again" beautiful grammar on your part. Idiot.
For the record, yes you did say ram chips get hot, why don't you review your past comments? Here is exactly what you said:
"Sure the ram chip generates tons of heat that's why I don't ever like to touch my PS2 memory cards while the console is on."
If anyone lacks the ability to comprehend English it's you. You clearly misread my initial message claiming I said the memory was the soul cause of the RROD's. You claim ram generates heat, then argue like the devil you didn't say it and I'm wrong, then continue to poorly try and offend me. Congratulations, all you've done is make my laugh uncontrollably, I would have never guessed, morons like you really existed!
The fact still stands: All chips generate heat. The hotter a chip is, the worse it works (reduced performance) and the less life-span it has. PROVEN facts. Hell why would they sell heat sinks for ram modules for computers and put heat sinks on video cards memory - if - the MEMORY DOESN'T GENERATE HEAT?!
It just stands for reason that if Microsoft is ignorant enough not to consider that the Memory chips need airflow and decide it's wise to not give them any thermal pads or mini heat sinks or anything of any sort - then what the hell reason do I have to believe they weren't ignorant to doing other things right or at least take the 'better be safe' route. That's simple all I stimulated in my post about the hardware, and IF I have to explain it again to you for the 3rd time you're genuinely hopeless - your likely the same morons they have designing the Xbox 360's hardware no doubt.
And in reply to your statement of me being a Sony fanboy... You need to be slapped in the face... Grow up... I'll say this and only this - at least my PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 have worked flawlessly since day one and never had a problem, unlike the three (3) Xbox 360's I've been through. And alos never in my life have I ever said Sony was amazing or perfect, in fact I frown upon buying any of there electronics, that's why my LCD TV is a Samsung, my fridge is a Samsung, my sound system is Logitech and my computers are custom builds and Dells.
Get lost with your empty and useless statements.
I've showed this thread to a few of my mates who are electrnoic engineers and average joe's, they even agree you're a moron.
Enough said, I'm not continuing this useless debate anymore, because there is nothing to debate. You made that clear with your personal attacks once I put your hopeless statements to rest. Oh and Chris.. GTFO ;)
Cheers.
I say it again you lack the knowledge to understand basic English. Your first comment was so bad that I had to use something called sarcasm but since you lack basic English comprehension I guess you never heard of that. Also you can't criticize anyones grammar since you can't even write simple words like electronic and their right. I highly doubt you know any electronic engineers since you can't even spell right and if you do I'm pretty sure they laugh at you 24/7. I say it again and this time with quotes so you maybe comprehend it: It doesn't matter where they put the "none heat generating chips" on the 360 for all I care they can put them on the outside of the console they never where and never will be the cause of the RROD.
@ Chris Hu
Give me a break, why don't you wake up at 5PM in the day after working a 16 hour shift and write to an idiot (you) that can't even use the word "I'll".. Stop saying "I say it again" you moron, don't even comment on my grammar over minor typing mistakes, you keep repeating your mistakes over and over again (JUST LIKE MICROSOFT!). In fact you've said "I say it again" EXACTLY over 4 times. It's "I'll say it again" - Jack ass. So "I say it again" you're an idiot and in no position to pick at others.
You can enjoy your opinion all you want. Because I NEVER SAID THE RAM WILL CAUSE RROD'S - YOU OBVIOUSLY STILL CANNOT UNDERSTAND THAT, SO MAYBE TYPING IN CAPS WILL GRAB YOUR ATTENTION TO THE MESSAGE I'M TRYING TO GET YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
If Microsoft is too stupid to protect ram for it to run cool and efficiently then their too stupid to correct all the other issues THAT CAUSE the RROD - THERE IS MY POINT!
God it's like trying to beat a dead horse. My 6 year old nephews understand technical information better then you..
So "I say it again" get a life moron ;)
FYI, nothing about your message is sarcasm, at most it's an amusement at your expense. Also don't bash my writing abilities considering I'm writing half of them at 3AM-4AM after working/waking up. I'm a full time graphics designer you're lucky I'm foolish enough to keep wasting important time of my life replying to your B.S... lol But it's all too funny I can't help it.
Your the one that's funny the majority of RAM out on the market doesn't come with heat sinks because they don't generate enough heat to need them. I'm pretty sure the same things applies to the RAM in the 360. Also last time I checked all 360's come with a internal fan which supply more then enough air flow to cool down the RAM no matter where it is located.
@ Chris Hu
Really?
Then explain to me, why all PC gaming ram I see and buy has these heat sinks built on to them, and all the gaming motherboards I buy have big ass cooling fans that go over the system ram? Explain why my video cards all have massive heat sinks on each individual memory chip or are all included on the main GPU heat sink. Last time I checked the Xbox is intended as a high-end gaming platform, so obviously it's no different from PC hardware in those aspects.
There is the problem - it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about and merely speculating when you say things like "I'm pretty sure"....
Yes the 360 has an internal fan. To bad that fan didn't do to much to cool down the GPU and CPU - by your logic there's a fan, so overheating is impossible - your foolish.. Besides, the fan won't do anything to chips that are UNDERNEATH the motherboard - which is on the opposite side of the where the fan is. And air cannot get to the chips regardless, they are practically almost touching the bottom of the Xbox chassis, there's just enough clearance so the chips are not touch the steel base, that's it.
Look at the facts.
- No room for them to breath and get air, nor can the fan push air to them as they are UNDER the motherboard
- They have ZERO in the heat removal department, no thermal pads, no heat sinks nothing.
What happens when things heat up in electronics? They begin to run poorly and burn out quicker.
But that's beside the point, I don't care about the memory, stop jumping topic to topic every time I prove you wrong about something. My point remains valid, Microsoft is ignorant, they make stupid mistakes, god only knows what else could be designed poorly leading to more failures.
If you cannot understand that, then you're hopeless. You'd make a perfect candidate at Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if you told me you work for Microsoft on the Xbox team!
While I'm at it let me comment on the other major point you made in your first statement. Besides paying Rockstar $50 million for exclusive DLC for GTAIV their is no evidence that Microsoft is throwing around money to 3rd party developers. Lets see the 360 has currently 52 games that sold over a million copies compared to 30 on the Wii and 18 on the PS3. Anyone that comprehends basic math can see that the 360 is a beast when it comes to selling software on top of that its easier to program then the PS3 and DVD's are still cheaper to make then Blu-ray disks. So if I was a major developer I would easily pick the 360 over the PS3. Also with Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games just breaking the 6 million copies sold barrier I would take my changes in developing a game for the Wii before I touch the PS3.
@ Chris Hu
You obviously are just arguing with everything I say just for something to do aren't you? You can't stick to anything.
Yeah you make good points which I've already considered. But I do know Microsoft has been trying very hard to get 3rd party developers to do more for their platform then the competitors. You really think they would make things like that available for headline news? I doubt it.
I was merely venting in frustration from Microsoft's ignorance with the 360 hardware. Simple. If you could comprehend English like you claim to be able too, you would have seen that statement was purely speculation.
Last time I checked my NES, SNES, N64, SMS, and my Sega Genesis are packed with chips and guess what those systems don't have heat sinks or fans and they all still work 20 years later. Simple air flow is enough to keep most chips cool enough so they don't overheat and the last time I checked the 360 has enough wholes to do that. Also the RAM that has heat sinks is obviously poorly designed.
Using your logic that all chips generate massive amounts of heat (sarcasm). Would make it impossible for electronic devices such as laptops, cell phones and hand held video games to exist because according to you they don't have enough room for them to breath and get air.
Since my post isn't showing I'll post again.
You're effing hopeless.
You're comparing consoles that render 8bit/16bit graphics, essentially 2D graphics - the processors in those consoles were only 25Mhz-150Mhz maximum, that's less power that in today's cell phone. Hence, they don't generate enough heat to warm your nipple on a cold morning.
I never said all chips generates MASSIVE amounts of heat - that's you're own stupidity. I said all chips generate heat. How much heat they generate depends on how powerful they are and how hard they are working. Since we're talking about a effing gaming console, of course it's gonna be the highest spec'd hardware around and gaming hardware generates lots of heat. If you had any life you'd know that considering computer video cards have MASSIVE heat sinks on the memory and GPU and people use liquid cooling systems just to keep the hardware cool.
Don't even dare compare a Cellphone or laptop to a Xbox 360. That's like night and day. Last time I checked, I couldn't buy 'some' laptop, pop Gears of war in it and it work. Only time that happens is when you buy a high-end laptop that has similar spec'd hardware AS the 360 to run the game. Hence, powerful hardware, lots of heat, which is why gaming laptops are LARGE... Your cellphone statement doesn't even deserve a explanation, since you're so intelligent, go play Halo 3 on your crappie cellphone then and GTFO..
Things don't don't generate a lot of heat don't need massive ventilation. Things that do generate massive amounts of heat, like memory that's powerful enough to handle 3x 3000Mhz processors and a high-end GPU obviously will generate a lot of heat since it's working like hell. Hence it needs a lot of breathing air to cool efficiently to continue operating properly and efficiently.
You're a moron, I'm done this argument. You're truly literally the most stupidest human I've ever met. If you can't comprehend the difference from high end gaming hardware from run of the mill low end hardware, then you shouldn't be here in this discussion and you shouldn't be shooting your mouth off. If you can't comprehend the fact that something that works faster and harder generates more heat then something that works less then you're just simple missing common sense.
Pray my first message doesn't appear or you'd likely be crying.
You're the one that should be crying because you can't comprehend that RAM just doesn't generate that much heat to cause hardware problems simple air flow will take care of the heat that is generated by the RAM and last time I checked the 360's case is not a sealed vacuum their are enough holes in it to let air in. The PSP is basically on the same level as the PS2 and it works despite not having a fan or heat sinks which the PS2 had. Also with the Jasper now having a 65nm GPU it now generates less heat and uses less energy which means the RAM also draws less energy which makes it cooler then the RAM on previous 360's. Your logic on RAM is just flawed if it really would generate that much heat their would be major hardware problems in almost all of today's electronic devices and everyone would be crying not just you.
For god sakes are you simple blind or can't read English?!
I NEVER EFFING SAID THE RAM CAUSES THE RED RING OF DEATH, I NEVER SAID RAM GENERATES SO MUCH HEAT IT CAUSES ELECTRONICS TO FAIL!!!!!!!!! JESUS BLOODY CHRIST HOW MANY TIMES IN HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS DO I NEED TO SAY IT.
1. A smaller GPU and CPU means minor decreases in heat by 3-7 degrees C.
2. A smaller GPU and CPU means minor decreases in power by 10-18 TDP.
3. A smaller GPU and CPU has nothing to do with the RAM, it's still being utilized as much and as hard as always.
4. I already said, gaming hardware works harder and faster then generic hardware, meaning in generates more heat then common hardware, meaning it NEEDS some attention to getting rid of that extra heat. I never said once that it generates more the above average temperatures in heat then other same spec'd hardware.
5. What don't you understand?
My point is, if Microsoft is STUPID enough to put the ram back on the bottom of the motherboard, like they did with the first generation Xbox 360. They repeated a mistake they made before doing that.
To add to it they didn't add anything to help combat any potential heat problems like they did with ALL the other Xbox 360 generations, no thermal pads, no heat sinks nothing.
Now here is my point and read this carefully. IF they are truly that foolish to keep repeating past ideas that resulted in failure (like mounting memory on the bottom, without heat-sinks or thermal pads) then what incentive do I or anyone else have to believe they didn't make other stupid mistakes? Which leads me to think, that Red rings of death, are not gonna be gone.
And no, my theories are not flawed. If it were then you wouldn't have manufactures creating liquid cooled heatsinks for PC ram and clip on heatsinks and video cards having massive block heatsinks on the memory. Open up Google and Google it. These parts are for Gaming equipment, cuz gaming is something that pushes hardware to it's limits, hence heat and I already stated it. Don't argue with me that ram doesn't generate heat when pushed cuz it does. Don't give me that Cell phone and laptop bull shit because calling someone on a cell phone or using a computer to surf the web doesn't push the hardware anyways near as much as gaming does.
Ram Heat Sinks:
http://www.directron.com/ddra1c.html
Ram Liquid Cooling:
http://www.directron.com/clw0102.html
My logic is flawed? Hardly why don't you look up some benchmarks on these products, then you'll see.
Gaming is the only thing that pushes electronic hardware now and days, nothing else pushes it to the limits where heat becomes a problem. IF you had any effing brains you'd know that you sorry excuse.
You are the one that is a sorry excuse why bitch about where they put the RAM in the 360 if you admit it that it doesn't cause the RROD. That makes your first statement totally invalid. Comparing a gaming PC to a home console is like comparing apples to oranges. Of course a gaming PC generates more heat because PC's aren't designed to be used primarily for gaming and have to be modified to do so. Also since you don't work for Microsoft you don't know if the RAM they use on Jasper 360's is exactly the same type they used on earlier models. Another thing since you don't own a 360 you don't have a right to bitch about it period shouldn't you be playing your PS3 since its so great. Anyway unlike you I actually own a 360 and I have been following the development of the Jasper model for over a year now and I'm pretty sure Microsoft did extensive testing on this model because originally it was supposed to go into production in late August and the earliest Jasper's available are manufactured in late October.
You're ignorance doesn't even deserve to be commented. I've said everything 100 times and you still fail to connect the dots.
1) You STILL fail to understand - it's my opinion, if Microsoft is stupid enough to repeat mistakes they've already made before, why should I think they've fixed the problems that do cause RROD? The launch 360 had the memory on the bottom, with no thermal pads, it had horrible tiny heat sinks on the CPU and GPU too. Those launch systems failed horribly, so in the next generation they moved the ram back up to the top, and used better heat sinks on the ram and CPU and GPU, they had better success, less failure rates.
NOW with a new system (Jasper) they repeat their old mistakes - they put the ram on the bottom of the motherboard with no thermal pads, they reuse the same heatsinks from the most recent Xbox 360 generation. WHY - WHY should I think they've made a console that is immune to the RROD's when they avoid using thermal pads on the memory and reuse components (heatsinks) from older generation consoles? THAT IS MY STATEMENT, THAT IS MY POINT. I WILL NOT, SAY IT AGAIN. IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT, THEN TOUGH, BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE IS ARGUING WITH ME BESIDES YOU.
2) Computer hardware and the hardware within the Xbox 360 is no different - in fact the 360 is made of parts used in computers... The only thing different about the 360 and a gaming PC is Microsoft had ATI design and build a special GPU specifically for the Xbox only. If you knew your facts you moron you'd know the 360 uses the same processors that Apple USE TO USE in their computers but abandoned because they were so horrible.
Apple had to drop them anyways, models like there PowerMac needed liquid cooling because they generated so much heat, besides I believe IBM abandoned the technology as well at one point in time, there is a big story behind it Google it and you might learn something.. And really the modifications they made to those chips obviously made no difference, why else do we keep seeing Xbox failure rates that are through the roof compared to competitors platforms?
You're fooling yourself when you say hardware within a gaming console is any different from a computer, because it's not. All electronics hardware is exactly the same. The only thing different about one thing to the next is what it's built to do. The more intensive the task it has to complete, hence harder it works, the faster it has to do the work, the more faster and advanced the technology is, hence the more heat it generates. IF you cannot understand that then you shouldn't be discussing hardware, Period.
3) Yes, it does matter to me, because I've owned 3 Xbox 360 consoles and gone through over 10 replacement consoles, one of each generation, starting from the date of launch. And I've ripped them apart and examined them when they failed horribly (RROD), so yes it does matter to me, considering I dropped 1200 bucks into 3 big white ugly ass bricks that I keep having to send away every 2 weeks to only get another one that RROD's again.
You're foolish. You obviously don't read my comments properly since you just said I don't have a Xbox, when I've said previously I owned 3 Xbox 360 consoles. Then again, what can I expect from someone of you're caliber that can't comprehend and understand a speculation and opinion. Or someone who compares a CellPhone with a Gaming console or claims to follow the development of the 360 console closely and yet tells me it's hardware is nothing alike to a computer, when in fact, the 360 is based off many many computer technologies and utilizes modified computer processors and computer parts.
Don't bother commenting back, this has gone on long enough, you don't like my opinion then tough break no one is forcing you to religiously give into it, no one else is arguing with me either besides you. In fact everyone else said my other comments are valid besides for my comment on the game developers. You're just some xbox fanboy that can't face reality, I bet you're some 8 year old spoiled brat or some 70 year old jerked off old man - either way you think you know your shit and you don't.
Peace Dumb ass =D
Your the one that is a dumb ass I highly doubt that you are that knowledgeable about hardware as you claim. Because if you where you would be able to fix a RROD 360 yourself using the X-clamp method. Hell if you where that knowledgeable you have a water-cooled modded 360. If the hardware in my computer and my 360's where the same then I should be able to run Microsoft Words or Vista on my 360 but I can't because they are completely different. Also if your points a really that valid then wouldn't there be tons of people that back you up on this site yet I don't see any pretty much proofs my point you really should pull a Plaxico Burress shoot yourself in the leg and disappear kid.
Excuse me? You're foolish, an RROD it caused by complete failure. The Microchips completely fry, they literally melt in some cases and have burnt peoples homes down. You can't fix a Microprocessor anyways you fool, not even the manufacture can fix a damaged microprocessor... As a matter of fact when they produce microprocessors in the factory if the dyes are defective then they discard them completely... Wow you're stupid.
No I wouldn't waste my money on a liquid cooling rig, especially for a crappie Xbox that should work out of the box without a $300 addition. Water cooling is to expensive to maintain and comes with to many problems. The pumps die without warning, the pipes becoming brittle over time and pinhole etc. I've owned them for the PC, and never will waste my money again. But they are efficient.
If you knew anything then, ya your Xbox could run other operating systems, but since it's the PowerPC chips it'd only be able to run things that understand the PowerPC instruction set. Things like older versions of Mac OS X and some Linux distros. Hell, I got PPC Ubuntu Linux running on my PS3 - the PS3 even supports using other operating systems and it's processor is built off the same architecture as the Xbox 360's. But Xbox 360 is so proprietary you'd never be able to get an alternative operating system running on it since you'd have to by pass the BIOS/EIF on the motherboard to get it to boot, would take lots of hacking. I know many people who've put Linux on the original Xbox system. And just for the record, no your Xbox will never run Microsoft Office, as the PowerPC instruction set is not compatible with Windows. So if you really wanted to run Microsoft Office then you'd need the old Mac version for the old PowerPC Mac's or try and run it in emulation via Wine on Linux. OH, did you know the PSP can run Mac OS X, Windows Vista, Linux etc? Know why? Because gaming consoles are the same crap as computers. Moron
You must be blind or just stupid, no one is even looking or reading this thread besides you and me - no one has looked at this thread for 5 days now besides you and me. In fact your the last person to comment on this thread about 5 days ago if you look. Besides read Nick8708's comment, he even said my other arguments are valid..
Get a life.. LMFAO
Your hopeless you'll just keep arguing and arguing with me until we're blue in the face. You're wrong face facts.
Read These:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC
http://www.cio.com/article/25443/IBM_PowerPC_Chips_Get_Efficiency_Boost
You'd be smarter at this too if you learned to research and read.. It's called Google, use it some time..
"Around the same time, IBM exited the embedded processor market by selling its line of PowerPC products to Applied Micro Circuits Corporation (AMCC) and focused their chip designs for PowerPC CPUs towards game machine makers such as Nintendo's GameCube and Wii, Sony's PlayStation 3 and Microsoft's Xbox 360. In 2005 Apple announced they would no longer use PowerPC processors in their Apple Macintosh computers, favoring Intel produced processors instead, citing the performance limitations of the chip for future personal computer hardware specifically related to heat generation and energy usage in future products, as well as the inability of IBM to move the 970 (PowerPC G5) processor to the 3 GHz range."
Enough said. You're a moron and I'm right =)
So apparently now you are an expert on the RROD also sure kid and the x-clamp method is only a scam to make quick money . If what you are describing really would occur in all cases of the RROD then their would be house fires across the US on a daily basis due to malfunctioning 360's. If the problem where really that bad then the US government would have already enforced a mandatory recall on all 360's like they did with those faulty Sony laptop batteries a few years ago. Nick8708 only barely agrees with your arguments. Video game companies have been throwing around money to influence 3rd party developers for decades now; how did you think that Nintendo was able to gain 90% of the US market during the NES era by playing nice. Also since you like using Google so much maybe you should look up some pictures of RAM and you would realize that a majority of it doesn't have heat sinks.
You miss understand the concept of 'frying'. The microprocessor ceases to continue to operate because sever heat damage occurs inside the internals of the microprocessor - this is utterly impossible to be fixed, the whole chip, is literally garbage. In major cases they have literally melted like it did in my launch 360.
If you knew anything by the way the X-Clamp dose nothing about the heating issues of the 360's GPU. The X-clamp purely solves the issue of the motherboard bending when secured to the Xbox case, causing the soldering grid (where the chip is connected to the motherboard) to break. This can be fixed by anyone that has soldering experience, being that the damage is not sever - even then it's a massive job. In addition the original x-clamp they put on the 360's is crap and applies zero pressure to keep the GPU secured tightly against the motherboard.
Oh - Don't take my comments and blow them out of proportion like you did - it just makes you look pitiful. You obviously have no argument.
Yeah I love Google, and actually yes, all new VGA ram does have heat sinks - especially anything made in the last 6 years because it generates so much heat. Cards like the GeForce 2 for the PC, do not need heat sinks on the memory, but some are present. And if you knew anything, the ram on the Xbox 360 motherboard is shared with the CPU and GPU, so it's a double whammy. I've modded all my video cards with higher end heat-sinks and cooling solutions and every card has had thermal pads and heat sinks on the ram.
But geez, I guess it's a big money scam too..
http://www.quietpcusa.com/Zalman-ZM-RHS88-Video-Card-RAM-Heatsink-for-GeForce-8800-Series--P344C23.aspx
Cough...You fool!
Care to change your arguments to anything else that I can prove you wrong on? Everything you say anything, I come back with clear evidence I'm right and your wrong. Then you jump to something else to argue about... Give me a break.
Was I talking about VGA RAM no I was talking about RAM in general and the majority of RAM does not have heat sinks. Also let me go back at a point that you made earlier that the Jasper has only a minor reduction in power consumption are you kidding me the Falcon used a 175W rated power brick and the Jasper uses one that is rated at 150W that's a nearly 15% reduction which is hardly a minor reduction in my book. Anything more then 10% can hardly be called a minor anything.
You're really a piece of work you know that?
The Xbox 360 only has one set of Ram chips in it, and it's shared between the GPU and CPU at the same time. To explain it in a stupid fashion so you'd understand, it's as if the VGA Ram and System Ram is combined into one. So in other words the Ram has two jobs. You understand VGA Ram get's hot, but you seem to not be able to comprehend that the Ram in the 360 is shared between the CPU and GPU. And since the ram is handling two jobs at the same time it's likely generating twice the heat then what it's normally generate if it was all separated.
I don't know where you got the idea that generic ram generates a lot of heat because it doesn't. Generic ram doesn't process like 50GB's of data a second like VGA Ram does. Generic ram gets warm, and sometimes hot, but never at any dangerous level unless when being overclocked. I never suggested Generic system ram generates a lot of heat. I said it generates heat, hence why there are heatsinks on the market and why Gaming system Ram comes with heatsinks built on..
You Fail again to understand anything. I stated that the smaller chip size (90NM to 65NM) only results in minor benefits - I'm talking about an individual chip... I know this for a fact. For example the Memron Core 2 Duo processor and the Penryn Core 2 Duo processor are in the same position, one is 65NM the other is 45NM, the only benefits are 10TDP less power consumption, 3 degrees less heat generated and 10% increase in performance - all minor. Exactly what I stated previously, you failed to comprehend that there is 3 CPU's in the Xbox 360 and 1 GPU, which ALL were reduced. If you add up all the exact figures, it would likely roughly add up to 25W. It's an improvement but nothing I can spectacular. But that's my opinion and I reserve the right to decide if it's a minor or significant improvement.
In my books if it ain't 50% or more difference then it's minor.
Care to be schooled on anything else since you can't read and comprehend things the first 5 times?