Hey Hollywood, how about some Blu-ray Disc price cuts?
By Darren Murph 
posted December 1st 2008 4:28PM
posted December 1st 2008 4:28PM
[Image courtesy of GamerNode]
posted December 1st 2008 4:28PM
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Can I get an Amen from the congregation?
hallelujah brother! AMEN!
yes Amen and all that. I actually work at the pictured retail chain JB Hi-Fi (Australia and New Zealand) and have found the Blu-Ray discs we sell are still generally cheaper than everywhere else. For instance, we sell Transformers on BD for about $45 comapred to the $75 around the rest of the country. That however, is still $15 more than the DVD...
One word. Replication costs.
Because there isn't a large competition among replicators, most of the work are still done at Sony DADC and maybe 2-3 other large ones. That's it.
It's really economics, unlike HD DVD who relied on utilizing replication by using existing DVD replication lines and even back then had already over 200 replication lines ready and a bunch of smaller replicators, Blu-Ray is facing problems that everyone was warning about. If you don't have competition in replication and have to form lines for studios to print them, then that affects overall costs. Add to that probably still lower yield rates and you get prices you see.
I'm not trying to defend studios though, they are trying to squeeze out a buck every way they can, but since WB has most likely exclusive arrangements with Sony for replications (most likely a part of the deal they struck when they nailed HD DVD) others are left out to dry or not competitive enough relying on a handful of replication fascilities.
actually that was 2 words in my previous post :) I wanted to just say replication. ha ha
Well isn't that a bummer. Since the biggest market (the US) is officially in recession the likelihood of more replicators coming on-line is low.
If replicators are going to do it, they need to bring up BD50 lines or they shouldn't bother. (Unless you're one of those rare few that thinks that BD25 is "good enough")
Player prices are finally coming down, but replication lines are going to be pricey for longer that anyone expected. I wonder how many replicators are getting expansion loans turned down due to the economy.
Just like "Tank Girl" - "Two words: Brush your teeth".
LOL
@WebDev511
This is exactly why I supported HD DVD. I knew that player prices would come down eventually whoever won, that was not an issue though HD DVD had lower prices to boot for standalones, my biggest reason was exactly this replication thing.
For an average replicator who did DVDs and CDs to upgrade to HD DVD 30gb combo capability it cost them around $50k. Actually I think it was below that but including the work of servicing and modifying units.
For an average Blu-Ray replicator, the costs are closer to 2 million and capabilities and yield rates are far from satisfactory Those who invested into BD25 replication (and there are a few of smaller ones like that), I'm pretty sure they are not too excited overall because most studios release on BD50 DL which is much more expensive and it really is still rough around the edges with all the additional things you have to do for protection of discs.
This is why you don't see independent replicators running to Blu-Ray. An average cost for BD50DL on 50k run is around $2.75-$3 a disc. That's not small amount, plus all the processing after, packaging.and so on. you can freely add another couple of bucks for that. So you already have a discs close to $10 or so just from replication to be ready to sell. Barebones cost. Add to that profit and retailer margins and marketing for them and you get discs at $20 minimum on a 50k units or so.. take off a few bucks per disc on a run that's higher then that like 100k+ and you get at best case scenario discs that are around $15-$16 and worst case scenario where they are around $20+.
This is profitable on high profile movies where they replicate larger number of discs because it's a sure thing so the studio has some space there and is pretty sure that sales will be good, but for other catalog titles it becomes an issue. This is why you saw some great new movies on Blu-Ray (blockbusters) selling for great price. They can afford it and still make a profit but on catalog titles they sell for like $15 a piece they are really just trying to get the money back.
Bozster - You are exactly right. I work for a small independent replicator and there is no way we are installing a BR line any time soon. The demand isn't even close to supporting it.
Due to the difficulties of manufacturing the discs, I hear the yield on BR discs is actually pretty low so that is going to drive costs up too.
I just checked over at blu-ray statistics and here's the breakdown for studios and disc types
Studio BD25%/BD50%
Disney 0/100
Fox 16/84
Lionsgate 36/64
MGM 35/65
Paramount 0/100
Sony 10/90
Universal 40/60
Warner 45/55
Other 66/34
I sure didn't expect to see paramount at 100% BD50...
I feel so much smarter after reading that, Bozster.
Great article, and dead on the mark. My wife and I use to buy between 2-4 DVD movies a month, but now since we bought a BD player I think we are at about 1 every other month now. There is no way in hell I'm paying $40 for a movie, just not gonna happen. If Sony think this is a good idea, especially with times as hard as they are, just keep doing what you're doing Sony, and see how long BD will be around.
Studios aren't going to surrender their hard fought margin increase to move more units. If they drop margins to DVD levels, this whole blu-ray thing is wasted effort from the studio perspective and they might as well of stuck with DVD and not even considered any HD media.
High (higher than DVD) prices are here to stay on blu-ray. There's really no motivation for studios to lower them to DVD levels.
Bozster, You nailed it 100%. Those who basked in the glow of blu-ray victory are now going to continue taking it up the wazoo. I have blu-ray and HD DVD and even with the strides that blu-ray have taken I still prefer my A2.
Just an FYI, Discovery Store has a Planet Earth collection on Bluray for $35 - $5 off $25 coupon EML2008 + $4 shipping = $34 total. (from slickdeals.net)
http://shopping.discovery.com/product-65763.html?jzid=40588073-2-0
but, you're right, the prices still seem a bit too high...
Thanks palehorse for the info. Just ordered it up. More places need to be offering deals like this - at least on blu-rays that are worth buying. There weren't many worth buying on black friday deals.
That's the 1080i Sigourney Weaver version from US television, not the original, and longer, 1080p David Attenborough version from the BBC.
Yes, please! I will not buy blu-ray discs until they are significantly lower in price. I've had my PS3 for 6 months now and only just bought my first blu-ray disc, (The Shining for 11.99 on Amazon). But let's be real, most prices need to come down. I refuse to pay more than 20 for any movie and prefer pay between $10 and $15. I'm not buying any more DVDs and havent bought any in a year so either blu-ray comes down in price or I won't buy any movies.
If you want to pay between 10 and 15 dollars for Blu-ray discs you are going to be waiting a long time.
Many people forget that DVD's didn't reach the magic 19.95 level at discounters like Best Buy until 6-7 years into their lifespans between 2003-2004. Studios didn't go to all this trouble to sell discs for the razor thin margins one gets at the end of a product cycle.
95% of new BD releases can be had for 24.95 at places like Best Buy the week of release even though the MSRP says "34.99" or even "38.99". If you really want reasonably priced discs you can get them.
I have about 30 discs already and have paid less than $15 for all of them. This year, after the format war ended, I've gotten the Matrix Trilogy, Patton, both Kill Bills, Knocked Up, and all 6 bond blu-rays. I almost took the effort to get the Godfather movies for $35 at Best Buy. You can get a lot of titles cheap right now on ebay as well with the 30% cashback from live.com.
I agree that prices need to come down. However, you can partially thank ultra low DVD prices on the fact that there is now a premium offering (blu). Prior to Blu and HDDVD, DVD was the premium offering and wasn't all that cheap, if you recall.
Between circuit city store closings, prudent shopping, and black friday, I haven't paid more than $24 a BD for weeks.
This week I bought 25 blu ray movies and the most I paid was $14.99 for Iron man and kung fu panda. Got transformers for $9.99 and 3 sets of bond for about $6 per movie...thanks to amazons buy 10 movies save $100 promo.
BDs can be had for $20 or less; you just gotta know where to look. (Hint: it's not Best Buy).
FWIW, BestBuy.com has the Godfather trilogy on Blu-ray for $48, shipped. Only today, AFAIK.
Galley you just proved my point and the articles point.
First mainstream is the point, why should people have to search when the norm should be reasonable prices.
Second… under 20 dollars for a movie is too much still. It should be less than 15 dollars.
Third the point of this article is not with production, when people buy, it will force production, but people are not buying and the article points to high prices.
Honestly, the studios need to stop including extras in order to pump up the price of discs. ie the digital copy. which is nice, but not worth the extra $5-10 it is meant to justify in higher list price.
The best list price for blu-ray is $29.99, with older titles at $24.95-28.00
Studios like Fox, MGM and now even Sony, whcih have titles at about $40 list price ought to be boycott!!
sorry, but the price needs to be affordable to make the standard catch on at a higher rate than Laserdisc did.
I don't want to sound like a sore HD DVD fan (even though I am!), but I remember tons of people out there saying that once HD DVD died, Blu-ray would come down because they'd quickly realize DVD was their new competitor, and an even more formidable competitor at that, so they would lower the price. Been almost a year now and though hardware has come down, software hasn't. I debated buying a BDP-350 this week for $180 from Kmart but then I realized something.... I'm not going to spend $30 per movie! 6 BD purchases and I've already spent more than the player. Back in the format war days, I was buying HD DVD's at $10 a pop thanks to all the buy-one-get-one sales. Today, movies cost 2-3x more than they did during the format war.
I think what has actually happened is it became apparent that the BD market and the DVD market aren't one in the same. They overlap a bit, but they are different. First of all, before BD catches on, HD needs to catch on. 18% of the HDTV owners in the US think their SD cable is actually HD because it is on an HDTV. A survey in 2007 said that 88% of HDTV purchasers/gift receivers had no intention of signing up for HD service. Until those numbers change, DVD will remain king.
But on top of that there is just the cost justification. For example, I can justify $30 to buy Star Wars on BD, but could I justify $30 to buy say, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory when it comes out? I wouldn't. There's no explosions or cool special effects to justify $30. It was a good movie though, so I'll gladly pay the $5 for the DVD, but I'll save my other $25 for 2-3 other DVDs and have 7-8 hours of enjoyment instead of just 2.
Even though I backed HD DVD, and I enjoy buying my used $4 HD DVDs, I do hope BD catches on. I want it to. But, until things change, I don't see it happening...
Not all movies have to have explosions or cool special effects to see the benefits of Blu-ray.
I bought my wife "Phantom of the Opera" on Blu and it blows away the DVD version. The colors *pop* so much more and the audio is unbelievable.
Please don't perpetuate the stereotype that only Matrix-style movies need to be bought in HD.
I remember when DVDs were expensive and I refrained from buying any. Now it seems the same thing is going on with blu-ray although I agree blu-ray could use a shot in the arm that lower disc prices would bring. Some deals are to be had, I think Casino Royale at $19.99 (versus $14.99 for the DVD) and some of the package deals are good.
Brenda
http://www.squidoo.com/blu-raydiscs2
This is pure linkbait.
I know Engadget has to drive the traffic like anyone else but I refuse to believe Darren Murph is unaware that 90% of all Blu-rays can be had at Best Buy or Amazon for $24.95. MSRP isn't street price.
If you walked into Borders today I'm sure you could find lots of DVD's for 25-30 dollars (along with Blu-ray discs for full retail price of 35-38). Taking a picture of these high prices and attaching it to a post does not negate the fact that most of those same DVD's can be had for 15-18 bucks at discount stores.
"-- now that Blu-ray player prices are at a reasonable level"
Did I miss something? Where did the Dallas News get this information? By reasonable level, did they intend to say that the number of units available and not the price?
@Big Wizz:
When you're saying it's a stereotype, I think you're wrong. I'll agree, the color is better, the sound is fantastic. But, does the average person care? I am the only person I know who has his HDTV hooked up to a surround sound system. Everyone else has a stereo speaker setup. Do you think they really care about sound? Doubtful. As far as color, color isn't worth $30 to me.
I'll 100% agree that the BD of Phantom of the Opera is better than the DVD, but, I can't imagine (at least for me) that it's $30 better. If it were $10 for the DVD and $12 for the BD, I'd get it. At $20 more? I'll pass.
Phantom of the Opera BD is $16.99 at Amazon. The DVD is $4.99. So where is this "extra 30 dollars" you are talking about?
Most new releases I've seen lately seem to go for 17 or 18 for the DVD and 24 or 25 for the BD at the same discounter (Best Buy or Amazon). We are talking about 7 or 8 dollar premiums here.
The studios are going to be in a world of hurt if they don't bring their prices down before the cost of the blu-ray burners and blank disks. The only thing preventing wide spread piracy of blu-ray movies is the cost of the blank disks. Dual layer disks cost as much as buying a movie and single layer are only slightly cheaper. Once those the price of disks falls to $1 and the burners drop below $100 the torrent sites will be full of blu-ray movies (not that they aren't all ready).
Perhaps they can justify a premium for HD now but that attitude won't last. Especially with SD tv's becoming increasingly hard to find.