Samsung's LED-backlit P2370L LCD monitor looks good for $399
By Darren Murph 
posted Jan 13th 2009 10:40PM
posted Jan 13th 2009 10:40PM
[Via SlipperyBrick]
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The Apple display uses an IPS panel. That one there is probably a cheapo TN.
IPS and PVA LCDs are hard to find and expensive. The 24" S-PVA I have at worked cost $600 and the IPS version was $985. The TN version was $275.
I agree, comparing a TN monitor to a IPS is like comparing a Civic to a BMW.
Sure this monitor is good, but the Apple one is a Professional grade.
Not counting that it have built-in a 90W MacBook/Pro charger....
Professional grade with a glossy panel. Of course.
People here keep saying that professionals don't like glossy. I know a couple of professionals that make their living doing graphic art, and they prefer the glossy monitors. They, and I, used CRTs for years before LCD panels were available, and those are made from glass and pretty reflective. I do a lot of output to print, and I find the color on the glossy display to be more in line with what comes out of the printer than the matte LCD.
Well, if it is $899 then it is definitely professional. What is there not understand?
CraigJ, you finding the color on the glossy display to be more in line with what comes out of the printer than the matte LCD, is a great proof on how professional you and your friends are, I mean really, why would you adjust your color settings in the monitor and OS? Just buy a glossy screen and magic will rain upon you all.
God help you all.
You must be a real "professional" I am not a professional graphic artist, but I run the adobe color management stuff, and when I print a photo it looks more like what is displayed on the glossy monitor than the matte monitor, so sue me. And yes I have a couple of real life friends that do stuff like this professionally. I understand that we are supposed to bow before your superior knowledge, but in my personal, real world experience, there are some professionals that prefer glossy displays. Of course most of them were probably doing graphic design before you were born.
God help you stuffing your ego in the same building with your head.
CraigJ, I hope that your "real life" "old friends" enjoy the glossiness, if you guys can't figure out how to adjust your monitor's settings to make it look like the printed outcome, then there is some serious problems right here.
Opps, wait a second, the Apple LED monitor has no buttons to adjust the screen? Only software adjustments? No point to go on because all other competition have built in settings' adjustment by default.
God help you all. lol
@ Saad
"Well, if it is $899 then it is definitely professional. What is there not understand?" - sarcasm when you dont have a clue looks kind of bad.
The panel in the Apple display is capable of 8bit color depth while the TN panel (used in this $399 Samsung) is only capable of 6 bit. This doesnt seem much on paper, but in real life it is 100 times more important then very low response times or dynamic contrast and other marketing bullshit. With 8 bit you wont see gradient banding or shitty blacks.
Yes I can fiddle with my monitor's settings all day, because it's made by Microsoft and it's giving me a beautiful experience. I only wish they could put Windows 7 and my beloved Internet Explorer inside the monitor, so I could have two Microsoft operating systems running at the same time, and that would give me a huge amount of pleasure. And if the monitor had a dedicated keyboard I could change the settings with it and if the keyboard also had a little screen I could make it display a picture of Steve Ballmer, because he gives me a beautiful experience every time I think about him.
@Sad Rabid
well said, Microsoft Evangelist make me sick to my stomach, make me like alternatives to Microsoft products better
People like to bash TN panels, but they fail to realize that TN panels have made gaming a reality on LCD panels for a lot of us. I loved the color on my old 20" IPS from Dell, but the response times were garbage. The color on a TN is fine, as long as you aren't a professional artist that depends on having things print exactly the way that you see them on your monitor (in this regard...glossy panels aren't the best)
All of that having been said, Asmor is right. You can't really compare a professional IPS monitor to a TN, especially in price (considering that IPS's are much more expensive to make). I'd still rather have the TN though, I'm sure it would work well enough for the photo editing and 3D modeling that I do, while still allowing me to play games without getting a headache.
Is it a matte display?
TN have best response times, however.
apple has hd!
So does this!
Having LED and a TN panel seems counterintuitive, doesn't it? LED brings out better contrast and colors, TN provides only 6-bits of color
saying 6 bits is a tad misleading since it makes it sound like it only supports the impossibly low 64 colors.
6-bit is the industry standard terminology, as in 6 bits per channel.
no one tells CS majors anything :(
Apple still overcharges like nobody's business, but then again, most Mac fans either don't care or simply don't know any better.
You can get a high quality, 24" SIPS panel for hundreds less than what Apple charges for their 23" Cinema Display
Just look up the:
HP LP2475w
We don't care.
It was a rhetorical point I was making....but still, wrong answer.
that has a fluorescent back light, not LED. Just saying...
Sorry Craig, try again.
Im referring to the even smaller and yet still more expensive (than the HP LP2475w) Apple 23" Cinema Display, which is also a non-LED IPS panel.
Why does Apple insist on selling it, a panel that they obviously don't manufacture (likely an LG unit) for HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS more than the HP LP2475w for example, when it is not only smaller, but arguably an inferior IPS panel at that, based on a number of sources who have spent time with both panels.
Like I said, it's a rhetorical point Im making, and you don't have to answer it.
We all know it as the Apple tax, but to be less euphemistic, it's usually because Apple fans are ignorant, i.e. oblivious, of other items on the market if they don't don pictures of fruits on them.
This may come as a surprise but there is no 23" Apple Cinema Display anymore. It was discontinued with the introduction of the 24" LED Apple Cinema Display ;)
since the 23 reached 'end of life' they dropped drastically in price. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the 20 and 30 if Apple redesigns them as well.
As expensive as IPS panels are, the HP LP2475w is $574.00 at Provantage and an IPS panel. And matte to boot.
And as pointed out above, that is not LED back lit. Add that and that monitor would probably be in the $700 range. The Apple would still be more expensive, but at least compare like technologies - the LED back lighting does make a noticeable difference.
Not when you're talking about print. And if you're talking about anything else, S-IPS is an unnecessary luxury. ROI is based on both cost and appropriate use of technology.
Great minds think alike Hamidxa.
Indeed my friend, indeed ;)
that is HAWT. really HAWT. and for $399?! its so good, something sounds fishy...
Yea, it's fishy too... that's what everyone's been discussing.
well this monitor is designed with games and multimedia in mind, good for motion.
ooo that looks sleek! and i love the pricing!
go die
Laters.
might as well throw this into the discussion: are ips panel monitors worth the money if all you use your computer for is the casual stuff? (web surfing, email, itunes, m.word, etc). what about video editing? does that beef up the reason to upgrade to ips? i hate my tn panel and would like to get the HP LP2475w down the road, but sometimes i wonder if it's worth shelling the cash (i.e will i notice the difference?). right now i do the casual stuff i listed but there is a very good chance i'll start video editing starting next month.
figured this was a good question to ask for a lot of people's sake. it's amazing how few people even know the difference between tn, va, and ips.
If you're doing things like extremely refined color correction, it would be great, however, for standard applications, even more in depth video editing and FX editing, there is no need for an IPS, a TN would probably suffice, at least, that is my experience.
The biggest difference that most people notice is that unless you view the TN panel straight on, the colors get all wonky due to the method used to create a perceived millions of colors from 6-bit channels. IPS panels have accurate color over a much larger viewing angle. When you have a 24" monitor the viewing angle issues can be apparent even if you are directly in front of the monitor. Having said that, and better quality TN panel is probably fine for most applications other than professional photo editing.
The UGRA test determines whether or not a monitor is suitable for use in digital pre-printing/soft proofing processes. This is called a UDACT certification test. It certainly can be an S-IPS or an S-PVA monitor. In other words, most every middle-range monitor being made today could potentially pass the UDACT certification test. Many of the Dell's for example (not all), are S-PVA monitors and pass the certifcation test, making them appropriate for digital pre-printing/soft proofing processes.
Almost all of these computers would have to have their brightness dialed way down in order to do this. The flavor of current monitors, epitomized by the iMac, are way, way too bright to even begin to approximate useful printing correspondence. However, with calibration (and they ALL need calibration), many monitors can be used for printing.
What most users seem to prefer, however, are monitors that are bright and color saturated, and the extended gamut S-PVA's do that quite well. Add a glossy screen and most users are in heaven :).
The difference between a TN and IPS panel are huge, like a night and day difference.
Anyone who tells you otherwise either has poor eyesight or has yet to experience a true IPS panel, and as such, ignorance is bliss in their cases.
However, you will immediately notice the differences.
Color reproduction on IPS panels are top notch.
Viewing angles are infinitely better. You can view them from virtually any angle and the image consistency and quality will remain the same.
Most TN's require that you not so much as move your eyes off-center if you want anywhere near the level of consistency that an IPS provides at nearly all but the most extreme of angles.
Speaking of color reproduction, there is virtually no dithering on IPS panels, whereas even the best of TN panels and dithering algorithms will still produce very noticable banding on TN's.
http://media.arstechnica.com/news.media/Colour_banding_example01.png
that link illustrates dithering, and TN panels will generally tend to look like the middle-part of the image whereas IPS panels deal with banding (virtually nonexistent) as with the right-side of the image
Think about it:
TN panels are 6 bit and thus can only reproduce 6 bits per channel, and therefore that equates to:
(2^6)^3 (for RGB, not counting alpha) = (64)^3 == 262,144 colors
Any TN panel manufacturer that quotes a figure such as 16.2 Million or 16.7 Million colors is lying through their asses, as it is physically impossible to display more colors than the panel is capable of generating.
This is where dithering comes into play, as a software algorithm tries to estimate what colors it needs to emulate and where..which most often results in poor and inaccurate approximations, and yields banding.
IPS (and PVA) panels on the other hand are capable of displaying the "full" 16.7 million color spectrum (I say "full" because there are literally infinite shades/variations/colors in the world, but 16.7 is the sweet spot still).
They are thusly coined: "8 bit display"
With respect to RGB on an IPS/PVA panel:
(2^8)^3 = 256^3 = 16.7 Million colors.
A HUGE difference that is, by a factor of 64
Yes, that's right.
IPS (and PVA) panels can output 64 TIMES as many colors as TN panels.
So once again, viewing angles, color reproduction, lack of banding, all make IPS panels (and PVAs to a slightly lesser degree) highly sought after as monitors.
Once you go IPS/PVA you never go back to TN.
Hamidxa: Il have to agree with you. The Difference is amazing. My father is a semi-professional photographer and needed an new monitor, so I went researching. I finally found a Lenovo 22" http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/17/lenovo-launches-22-inch-wuxga-thinkvision-l220x/
The difference between this and his old benQ 20" TN was huge. The Lenovo is 1920X1200 and a S-PVA panel. If you have the money for a VA or IPS panel, dont think twice about spending more money.
For some, yes. For others, no. I could go on, but that about sums it up.
Like with any general use products. Most people don't know or don't care about the differences. The proposition of whether or not to spend more on a monitor basically comes down to what looks good to *you* and your eyes. Someone may see monitor w/ a 800:1 contrast ratio and think it looks great, while someone else may balk and move on.
Myself for example, I will spend a little more for a better monitor simply because If I have to stare at this thing day in and day out, I want it to look good. I notice when my monitor is not setup optimally.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it's 2370-inches diagonally based on the cryptic model name.
Eh, LED is nice but I'll take one in a 24" 1600X1200 with HDMI and YPbPr please.
Why would you want a 24" with HDMI and component in 4:3?
My XH-A1 outputs with component so I need that input. I take my monitor out in the field to check the video coming off the camera. Dell monitors have HDMI and component so technically it exists but it might be a pipe dream on a Samsung.
Meh, you guys sure like to argue about useless things. It was never stated that it was a professional grade monitor, and for $400, a 1080 23-incher with a super high contrast ratio is a pretty nice deal even if its TN. If its somehow S-IPS or S-PVA then woot, whatever that means it's an even better deal.
I have never really found anything wrong with TN panels as long as the price is right, if you are a professional then you would obvious be able to pay more for a monitor. That being said my last monitor (Samsung 204T) and my current monitor (Gateway FPD285W) are both S-PVA, I guess I'm just not looking hard enough or I'm not discerning enough.
Contrast ratios are horseshit. There's no accepted standard, and most of them are essentially made up.
Hmm, I wonder how this compares to my new 23" Samsung 2343BWX 16:9 Ultra-Widescreen 2048x1152
But does it sport 3D-friendly 120hz refresh rates?
yeah Samsung is sending us weird $400 LCD vibes
SyncMaster 2233RZ (the 120Hz one)
or
SyncMaster P2370L (LED backlit)
I don't know why people always criticize Apple's new LED Cinema Display, I mean we don't even have to care about it because it's not like we can use it, it only has that unique mini DisplayPort connector that nobody's computer can even hookup to. Sure, they'll eventually have an adapter but heck, competitors like Samsung, HP and Dell will also offer LED backlit displays in masse and we'll all be able to enjoy the same technology for a lot less money.
I really like the design of ACDs, it's unique and sleek, you also have the webcam and sound hooked up with only one cable, which is neat, but the fact that only the new unibody Macbooks can use it makes this a non-factor for 90% of us and even if it's expensive as hell, I don't really care frankly.
Apple cinema display is still the best, offering the best in performance and buildquality
Oh sweet mother of lord.
I misread "Apple cinema display is still the best, offering the best in performance and bullshit", I had to agree and wonder about the low ranking. Then I realized my mistake...
Does it have that AWFUL red touch of color crap???? AWFUL !!! AWFUL !!!AWFUL !!!
Bummer! I JUST got a Samsung T240HD 24" for $400. I would love to pick this up instead...
The new HP LP2480zx 24" LED backlit monitor is $1,000.00 off until the end of Janurary 2009. It's still an extreamly expensive monitor even at the sale price of $2,500.00
does anyone know any other LED monitors (23"-24") ? accept apple and view sonic!!!
when is the Samsung going to be in stores ?
BestBuy has this monitor in stock now.
wow
thanks for letting me know
but it was spouse to be in LED technology
and over there its look like its just a regular LCD
I'm still waiting for the 16:9 monitors Samsung announced in Summer and Autumn 2008 to arrive to Europe. By the time this one comes here OLED will be an established technology (in places other than Europe, of course).
Where I live, a 24" Samsung TN non-LED costs around US$300-$400 (no LED yet). The Apple Cinema display costs around $1000++ (along with other fancy S-whatever displays, non-LED). What do you get for paying 3x more? Better viewing angles, better colors (blacks, whites, etc). Hmm. Not much more, really. So, for the average Joe (who's not a snobby pro, full of snide remarks for the non-pro), what's he going to buy, especially with the economy in it's current state?
If my livelihood depended on it (or better yet my employer paid for it) of course I'd get the better monitor. But for so little return for so much $$$, I'd be out of my mind to go luxury when I don't exactly have the cash. Everyone knows they're clearly better, but for most of us, it's just not worth the huge hole in your wallet. Everyone knows a Lexus is better than a Civic, but most won't buy one.
I say it's great that manufacturers make affordable 24" monitors for "the rest of us", because that's what most of the market is made of, "the rest of us". Not too long ago, the 24" LCD market only had $1000+ fancy S-whatever models. I'm glad times have changed.
that's when you buy a 24" CRT
It sure would be nice if manufacturers listed the panel type in their specs.
Hamidxa,
Not sure if you are still reading this thread, but just in case, thanks for your detailed response to my question.
Given my scenario listed before, do you think I should upgrade to a IPS panel? My biggest gripe right now is that my Dell TN panel is 3 years old and the white just looks awful at it's highest bright setting. Will I notice much whiter whites with a IPS panel? Or would a new TN panel satisfy this need?
I guess I'm missing the part of the article that reads "this is the perfect monitor for douchebag graphic artists that throw a hissy when the "black" comes out more "ebony" than it should."
If your profession depends on it, go spend $800 and comment about how awesome you are on renderosity. Else, please realize that a quality-built Sammy MSRP $400 23" LED 1080p monitor is totally sweet.
So why exactly can't we have the contrast ratios like this monitor has plus a 10+ bit panel like they put in LCD TV's? Or why won't somebody come out with a 24-30 inch "TV" with these qualities so we can use it as a monitor?
Apple got a nice gagget screen and im sure it works fine for more artist
but if u want full control of the screen including the back light colour
most will end up getting a RGB LED back light display
some of those screen even come with a calibration device u have to place on the screen to fully tune it