AMD sees distinction between netbooks and laptops vanishing
By Darren Murph 
posted January 25th 2009 8:04AM
posted January 25th 2009 8:04AM
posted January 25th 2009 8:04AM
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This is not an odd comment at all. What we refer to today as netbooks are only going to get more powerful as time goes on. Meanwhile, the increase in SSD size and speed as well as access to cheap large flash drives will make disk based media on netbooks even less of a pain to forgo. To the average consumer, a computer that has a reasonable amount of storage and internet capabilities is all they need or really want. Users with more specific needs or greater general use of graphic intensive apps may still opt for the larger and more expensive laptop if they please. I would not be surprised if that segment continues to shrink considerably while the netbook segment continues to grow. Price is always an amazing driving force.
Price and size. I expect netbooks and ultraportables to merge. Basically, netbooks will drive demand for smaller, more portable laptops and the miniaturisation process will, in turn, become cheaper.
Just because there's a continuum of intelligence, it doesn't mean that the distinction between what is a genius and what is a moron is going to go away...
Blackinfidel
Your comment basically nails it.
Netbooks have opened up a consumer market for inexpensive computing, but as time goes on, the specs of those computers increases alongside the specs of entry-level and mid-level laptops. Soon the netbooks of today will have the same computing power of the $3000 laptops of today.
Netbooks are a blessing to every single person/family who walks into a store looking for an affordable computer and walks out dissapointed because the prices are too high. When I was in college I worked for BBY and I met many of these people who would ask, "what's the cheapest laptop for my son/daughter" and I had to tell them - "this will cost you $900 but the rebate will mail you $300 back"
Netbooks are also spectacular for classrooms. Rather than spending my school's tech budget on 30 $1000 laptops, I can purchase 60 high-end $500 netbooks.
THANK GOD FOR NETBOOKS.
but you missed one of the most important features of netbooks: batteries that last longer then 2 hours!
The reason I finally purchased an eee was because it was under 3lbs and REAL life battery use still got me over 5 hours.
I don't need a 5+lbs device that I need to drag cables around everywhere to plug it in to just check my email.
Of course they will become more powerful, but they can only do so as long as the battery technology allows them.
(And maybe Windows 7 will help by getting rid of the 1.6ghz cap on cpu speed...)
I don't see how or why netbooks should go away, or blend with traditional laptops, because their purpose is exactly the same as it was 12 months ago. They're supposed to be low cost, ultra-portable machine that will allow you to perform rather basic, non-intensive computing tasks while you're away from your desk. This would include email, word processing, internet. The specs of the machine can be relatively low and still be OK, and this is why the cost of the machine is also low.
How does the introduction of ULV Core 2 Duo processors, high speed and high capacity SSDs, or things like Displayport change a thing? It doesn't. There's always a spectrum of processor speeds, some being slower and cheaper. The only reason Intel, Microsoft, and other hardware manufacturers want consumer demand for features to rise, and consequently, want netbooks and laptops to merge into the same thing is so that they can charge more for them and earn higher profit margins. They WANT you to believe that your netbook should be dual core, or be a decent gaming or video machine. That way, they can just make what is normally deemed a laptop, but make it $700 and call it a netbook. Call it whatever you want, because they're not really netbooks.
The definition of a netbook hasn't changed, even while the demand for features rises. What these people are after isn't a netbook at all. Far from it. What these people want is a small, lightweight laptop that doesn't cost $2000. If they need to call their new machine a "netbook" to get what they really want --- a low cost, ultra-portable laptop --- then they'll do just that.
2008 was the first year more laptops than desktops were sold in the US. This is in no small part thanks to netbooks. If this trend can continue, it proves that all that was needed for laptops to surpass desktops was for them to pass below the $400 price point while still being usable for basic internet browsing.
We've had sub-$800 laptops for at least ten years. But rarely was seen a sub-$400 laptop that wasn't a toy. We've always had ultra-portables from the likes of IBM, fujitsu, HP, sony; but at the steep $2000+ price point usually. Obviously neither of those were what the market wanted.
I'm sure there are some people who want netbooks to have bigger screens. But many people come up to me after seeing my netbook, and after talking to me buy an Eee or Acer Aspire One simply on the price point; $350 is a hard price to argue with. Then they grow to like it, despite its limitations.
some liquid nitrogen spray to cool that mini 10?
What's the point of a 2 core GPU in a 9 inch laptop ? Just put a decent GPU unit like ati's 4500 series gpus or nvidia 9600 series and everyone is pleased.
well maybe a 4300 or a 9300, the 4500 and 9600 are a bit much for a small laptop and still produce a little too much heat but even a low end hd4000 or series9 provides a ton of power
that wasnt his Darren's point...
With introduction of 12 inch netbooks sporting entry level specs while commanding price tags rivalling a proper laptop, it's only a matter of time before netbooks morph into overpriced laptops. Less for more is becoming the motto, and Sony has certainly taken the netbook category into new heights. Personally, the netbook category ends at $500. I rather deal with the slight extra weight of a proper 14 inch laptop than pay premium for underwhelming hardware.
Considering this:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/amd-kinda-sorta-takes-aim-at-atom-with-athlon-neo/
And this:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/19/intels-culv-platform-guns-for-amds-neo-danger-will-robinson/
It makes perfect sense.
All I want is something to play 720p and 1080p movies over HDMI along with Left4Dead and TF2. AMD and Intel: Whoever does it in the best looking, thinnest, lightest, and cheapest package gets my money.
Fight!
I also think thats a safe assumption.
Just look at the (rather short) history of netbooks:
starting with celeron CPUs, 7" screens and a measly 4gig of "HD" space, they now are at upt to 12" (or 13", if you count MSI announced one) screens, and hds with generally 160 GB.
OF course ram and CPU are still a weak point, but if that stupid MS law thats stopping them at single core atoms and 1gig ram is away, they will get closer to laptops. Asus even has one already with a rather potent GPU.
qwert
For awhile, the trend was bigger laptops, bigger than any person's lap, with huge screens. Then in came littler lap tops. Then the littler ones get more power and grow and eventually two categories merge and then another emerges. This is no different than with Nissan. Once, the Sentra was a tine car, and teh Altima was in the middle. Then the ALtima got bigger and more powerful and was like a Maxima, which to me made no sense since why compete with yourself, and then the Sentra became bigger. I love my S-10. Innovation is partly about engineers having fun, and it is partly about marketing people and sales people creating new stuff to get people to part with their money.
Geez engadget why so negative? You seriously believe that there is NO long term market for cheap low power laptops? Really? First, there are developing markets EVERYWHERE that would really only be able to afford such technology, and then their are business clients and soft users who would only use it for office and surfing the net anyway. So I agree with AMD, eventually the Netbook will just be a type of laptop and we probably won't see such a huge distinction in category.
I think this article really says "Darren Murph does not understand AMDs statement"
Well Darren at present you have laptops that scales from £2000 - £300
And netbooks that scale from £400 - £150
What AMD means is netbooks as a catagory seperate from notebooks will vanish as notebook ranges will scale from the top price right down to the bottom with all gaps between netbooks and notebooks covered.
That wasn't really that hard was it ?
Newsflash! For majority of the population there is no "netbook" category, there's just laptops - small ones and big ones, that's it. I guarantee you, most people don't even actually read the word as "netbook", they see it and subconsciously read it as "notebook" and then move on to the specs.
And why should there a be a distinct "netbook" category? It was created purely for marketing purposes anyway - better than calling it "underpowered laptop" - but at the end of the day it's exactly that, just another laptop with lower than we were used to specs. But with specs changing all the time they're no longer lower than we're used, they're just another set of specs.
hear' hear'
All that going to happen is the ultra portables and the netbook market will combine and either net books will become known as ultra portables or ultra portables will become known as net books. One will disappear. and I bet it will be net books. and that's because AMD are going for ultra portables and Intel are releasing new processors to fight in the ultra portable area. There will be no need for these processors when we pass core i5 and i7. 32NM and down will see note books generally take over.
There will be no need for atoms.
No, netbooks and ultra-portables will/can always be distinct because they're different due to specs. A machine that's made just
All this demand for really decent integrated graphics in a netbook just means that what these people are really after is an ultra-portable, not a netbook.
These companies should continue making lower spec netbooks, but perhaps make some cheaper ultra-portables (and label them ultraportables).
how can you talk about netbooks without mentioning our favorite netbook of all... the Viao P!
Nope, there will always be a netbooc class, why?
because there will always exist a company that will undercut the market price by %75 and offer a crappy cheap version, like the $89 netbook that runs WinCE.
Even if Netbooks hit the $99 mark there will be some SHITE company out there to produce a $20 laptop and what will this be called? A NETBOOK!
no, then it be a cheap laptop. The definition of a netbook in my book is a cheap, light and small notebook. What he's saying is eventually there will be no term for notebook, because it will be excepted as a small laptop. He's not saying that netbooks will be assimilated and C2X and 9800mSLI inside, he's saying that they will be regarded as laptops that are small.
other than that, you seem to be in a good mood today, ieye
Sent from my Limited Edition Red iPhone
It's all just semantics. The relative concept will always be there, but really the only question is whether the name will be.
I completely agree with everything he's said.
Read my rant that I wrote in the Jolicloud post about three down, because I really don't feel like repeating myself.
As technolofy develops netbooks will become more powerful. However notebooks will also follow this trend.
Manufacturers will use the term 'Netbook' as a more attractive alternative to 'budget' or 'low-end' in order to peddle goods to those who don't really need the latest and greatest and aren't prepared to shell out for it.
No netbook is complete without a round-edged Facebook icon on the desktop
Did you know that there is a law office that sue everyone who uses the word "netbook" on their sites and stores. Cause Psion got a patent on it. I recommend you to change the topics as we did in our shop (pcaachen.de).. Slightbook sounds kind of nice we thought.
Best regards,
Thomas
I don't agree that netbooks and laptops will become indistinguishable. This is just sour grapes from AMD, who has chosen not to get into the netbook market
( http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/14/amd-says-its-ignoring-netbooks-will-focus-on-ultraportables/ ).
Netbooks have a different design goal than laptops. Netbooks willingly forego performance in favor of very low power and very low cost. The performance of the Atom is the same as a laptop from about 4 years ago, but it uses much less power. Laptops go the other way, they do not sacrifice performance and as a result cannot achieve either the power or the cost savings.
Yes there will be progress. Netbook performance will improve. But when the day comes that a $300 netbook performs as well as today's $900 laptop, you can be sure that the $900 laptops will have progressed also and will remain comfortably ahead of the netbooks.
Exactly.
Hmm... Isn't it more like laptop is disappearing into the netbook, rather than the other way around?
I'd have to agree, 'netbooks' appear to be getting bigger and bigger, and the price seem's to be increasing too.
I thought the original plan was to have a 7-8 inch, underpowered, XP/Linux powered laptop for under $200, but it seem's they're drifting further and further away from that. And a smart consumer will realize that it would be better to get a more powerful, slightly larger and more costly full laptop. And eventually the 'netbook' category will just fade away into a low end laptop market.
That's a cool photo
No, the original plan was to run only a browser and connect to the cloud, but when geeks realized that there really wouldn't be much point in that, they changed it to mean small cheap notebook. Except now they're realizing that making tiny notebooks doesn't make much sense either, which is why screen sizes are increasing to something that is actually usable.
My prediction: ultra-thin notebooks become the norm and display sizes range from 10 - 18 inches. Flash is cheap, HDDs and optical drives are old school, x86 finally dies because transistors can't be made smaller anymore.
I'd buy this laptop....looks real cool lol....
"A laptop can never be too small nor have a big enough battery"
Netbooks are following the marketing playbook... ASUS put the stake in the ground with a tiny inexpensive computer running Linux. Then focus groups and 'profit margin' chasing at all manufacturers has increased the specs and price so all the netbooks are bumping against the lower end laptop market. Ask anyone in a focus group what they want and it would be a 52" LCD laptop - but they don't want to spend more than a few dollars for it - nor for the cart to wheel it around. But they want it and so the hardware development team inches closer to 'the voice of the customer'.
95% of users don't really need anything more than the performance specifications of a 1999 HP laptop I use - running Xubuntu I can give presentations to 'Fortune 10' corporations and watch some YouTube videos at the airport. It's heavy hardware, but inexpensive, obtained used for under $25. 500Mhz processor and 256MB ram. The 'slow' netbooks are at least double that performance. People want a web browser first and then something to write letters and email and track their checkbook, Firefox and Open Office are perfect. I even have a 2GB USB flash drive with two separate Linux operating systems installed (or use liveCDs), and save documents to a second flash drive. If you want to run XP, Vista or maybe even Windows 7 then the hardware performance has to be way up there.
The Netbook vs Laptop debate will continue indefinitely.
I'm waiting for the next big surprise of Netbooks under $150-$200 range each - many more customers will get them. Running a modern Linux of course, probably an Ubuntu base OS with XFCE or Fluxbox window manager to make them really shine.
So... What you're really saying is, Humanity in General is a bunch of gibbering twats?
Yeah, I can get down on that.
They're definitely losing sight of what made the "netbook" popular to start with. Let's review:
- low price
- general functional computing (as opposed to a dedicated MID for example)
- long-ish battery life
- full keyboard (ie. has keys you can type on, not implying they are fullsized -- which they are not.)
The Vaio-P would be an ideal evolution of the "netbook" genre if it came in at
IMO the minute it runs a fully fledged OS it's a laptop. Whether you call it laptop, netvbook, notebook I don't really care. In fact, I think it's negative advertising to call an (albeit lightly specc'd) portable computer running Win XP with 1.6GHz chip, 1G ram and 100G + HDD a "netbook" when it can run just about any software out there short of 3D rendering software or newer games perfectly efficiently and acceptably as it makes it sound less than its brethren when all it is is a lighter spec.
Personally I have been waiting for something like the eee to come along for years and show everyone it could be done. I was hoping for it in a tablet or convertible format but there you go, I got a Gigabyte M912 and that's doing me just fine. Rock on I say, labels or not I don't honestly care.
+1 for all the comments about educational budgets and emerging economies, talk about suppressed demand....
wow, who would've thought, the Macbook Air is years ahead of its time.
That is why Apple leads, others follow.
you must be a air owner as I don't see this the same way as you do
"this is just a man in a suit speaking his mind. Got it? "
We all have different opinions of consuming products.
If anything surely you mean the 12" iBook?
That's what I thought when I came across 12" netbook announcements.
I don't get the whole netbook marketing buzzword or the mid thang. They should call them ultra disposables seeing as they have a much shorter lifetime or am I missing something?
Please tell. In the interim, what do these folks call something like the PSP (which has had a browser, rss reader, etc. for over four years now)?
Did anyone notice that his laptop is not centered?
Yes it is.
It's a dv9000.....the touchpad isn't centered
In the end it will all come down to the holes in the market being filled. You'll start to see more options in size, performance, and price. You'll have what we now know as netbooks that will continue to to be small and cheap, but you'll also see laptops in similar small form factors with more features and horsepower that will go for more of a premium. Just like you already see the same broad range of options in any other full-size laptop.
The right computer for the right person.
So, am I imagining things, or 10-12 years ago wasn't the idea of a laptop a miniature, low-power all-in-one that did basic computing tasks? The way I see it, the market drove laptops to be more like desktops. (Because what good is a $3000 computer if you can't flaunt it in front of all the other hipsters at Starbucks?)
Now it seems that folks are finally realizing that they don't need a rendering powerhouse to watch YouTube and send instant messages, and manufacturers have adopted the name "netbook" in place of the more descriptive "as-much-computing-as-you-need-for-25%-of-the-price-of-our-next-cheapest-model."