The case of the Mini 10 just gets curiouser and curiouser. The company finally acknowledged the red-lidded QVC stepchild on its site
just last week, but before that quietly mentioned an interesting bit of information on its official blog: the 1GB of memory figure that seemed like just a start is actually the end, too. The RAM in the first batch (or possibly batches) of Mini 10 models will be non-upgradable, and while we don't know why a company that built itself on allowing people to customize computers would prevent them from upgrading their netbooks, we are sure this won't be a popular move. Additionally, the first Mini 10s will all be running XP, though Ubuntu will be coming, as well as an optional 720P display and even a TV tuner. That all sounds fantastic, but after waiting through all this is anyone going to wait longer still for a proper-spec'd machine?
[Thanks, Eric]
posted Feb 23rd 2009 10:04AM
I was curious about this little guy until I noticed on Dell.com that all of the good features were "coming soon."
I think I remember that Microsoft applied a rule for using new XP licenses on Netbooks, that as long as those were not too powerful Microsoft would allow it and one of those specs was having no more than 1 GB of RAM. I think Dell is just playing by the rules....
I found the article on this from Engadget;
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/10/microsofts-xp-for-low-cost-pcs-defines-some-boundaries/
Microsoft requires the netbooks to be sold with 1GB or under to match their low-cost computing standards. However, they never said anything about upgrading, which is why every Asus, Acer, and everyone else allows it to be upgradeable. This seems like a very strange move on Dell's part... maybe they had to just stick that TV tuner right over the ram slot lol. Anyways, this looks like a damn sharp machine otherwise.
Cheers,
Darius
I don't care how much ram a netbook comes with as long as the current price reflects the lack of memory (lower) and its easily upgradeable to at least 2GB.
Dell major fail.
The Dell Mini 10 hasn't officially been released yet, but you can order one now...
http://www.tomorrowland.com/2009/02/23/dell-mini-10-available-now/
Sorry to double comment. I also have specs on my site for the Dell Mini 10 that you can order right now. (see link above) Indeed it is 1GB of RAM, 160 GB HD, Windows XP Home preinstalled.. and more details...
What a stupid move... I'll be buying an ASUS 1000HE or a Samsung NC10.
Is dell retarded?
Yes. The Mini 9, 12, and now 10 have all been failures.
By what definition do you call Dell's netbooks failures?
I have a Dell Mini 12 with Ubuntu and I'm quite happy with it. Most XP and Ubuntu users should have little problem with 1 GB RAM for this netbook market. The only Mini 12s that I would define as failures are those that came with Vista.
The Dell Mini 9 can be customized quite a bit and doesn't have the 1GB memory limit. The only significant complaint I've heard from Mini 9 users is with regards to the keyboard.
Having said that, I am surprised that Dell would go with the 1 GB limit for the Mini 10. At a later date Dell is supposed to introduce a higher resolution screen and perhaps that will be the time to introduce additional memory. One could hope.
I love companies' and their ability to design a great product and screw up the end game. How many products do you know of that almost achieve greatness but for an intentional crippling design flaw.
It's been mentioned before, the INTEL chipset has a limit of 1GB. It's the same reason the Mini 12 is limited to 1GB.
Actually that limit was lifted a long time ago. MIDs use the same chipset and they're coming with 2GB for a good reason. You can also check Intel's listings. There are two pin compatible chips with 2 simple differences: 1 is a 1GB limit and the other a 2GB limit, and of course cost.
Yes, I see now. The Poulsbo chipset was limited to 1GB but they updated the specifications in December. http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/embedded/specupdt/319538.pdf
I'm glad you pointed that out, I would have gone on thinking there was still a hard limit of 1GB for systems that were going to use that chipset.
i was waiting money in hand for a 720p capable 2GB version for my wife. I've been telling her to hold out because the mini 10 was coming soon.
Thanks Dell. You just pissed my wife off.
You would not even be able to tell the difference in resolution at this size between this and 720p video. Unless you just want more desktop space.
@AVG: Hello, HDMI out?
Also increased desktop resolution is a good thing, not just for films.
@Joshua Ochs
It can probably do 720 via the HDMI out. The screen just isn't that high. Get it?
yah i get it, but screen real estate is the more important factor. There *was* finally going to be a netbook with a display that had a usable resolution!
There still is. It's coming soon. Just wait, Dell has confirmed it and it is a known forthcoming product.
We don't have to hate on the current 10 just because the one you actually want hasn't even released yet. In that case, just consider the Mini 10 to be a product that hasn't hit shelves yet, because in reality the one you want still hasn't.
Could someone enlighten me why would anyone need more than 1GB of RAM on a netbook? And I talking about examples typical for netbook usage.
More is always better... and I don't think the fact that it's only got 1GB to start with is the issue. It's the fact that you're stuck with 1GB with no ability to upgrade!
Yea, Ive been reading these, and agree. What the hell would you need more than 1 gig of ram for on one of these. Someone said "more is better"? This is not the case with a netbook. If you are running applications (on a netbook) that require more than 1 gig of ram, then you bought the wrong machine. Stop being a cheap ass and buy a proper laptop/DRS.
I can't fathom why people bash netbooks. The screen resolution is a bit low, but this is a computer for crying out loud. It runs the same OS, the same applications, and can do all of the same things your larger, heavier laptop can. It just weighs 2lbs and more often has an SSD, so you can toss it in a bag without thinking about it and have it handy whenever.
It's all about the portability. But for folk who buy 7lb-15"-1280x800-$500 budget machines, I guess you wouldn't have a clue.
Because you want to avoid using the page file at all costs. Netbooks are slow enough without adding that bottleneck into the mix.
What you don't realize is that you don't start using the page file when your ram is full, you start using it waay before - I've seen it start getting hit at when the ram is around 75% full.
There was a time when 1GB of RAM was the most you can ever get. But those times are long gone. You'd be silly to use a computer today with only 1GB of RAM.
So why have a brand new netbook with a 1GB limit?
to Michael Scrip: because if having the ability to upgrade the RAM carries a premium, I'll be fine with 1GB.
No one on this thread will like this but....this is just smart business. Fine you want to buy a $299 netbook? Fine. No upgrades, no warranties, hell...I'm even going to let you know on my site that this thing will be a lot cooler in about 6 months. So go ahead and but this low margin badboy....you'll be back...suckers.
Sorry to tell you but *smart* business would be to have never announced 720p and the other features - THEN 6 months later after everyone had settled into their new mini 10 purchase and past the return policy deadlines - that's when you introduce the one that they really wanted to begin with.
There are a lot of people that already know what Dell's (near) future plans are with this model and won't be purchasing this crippled version.
Then everyone would be pissed. Dell is letting you know...hey crack heads that can't wait...here's your Mini 10. They'll still buy it, it's like 10 inches of black tar heroin for some fanboys.
But I agree...I think this is like launching Vista, when they probably should just wait for 7.
That works - except when your competition has similar prices and none of the restrictions. It's not like the netbook space lacks for competition!
The answer: the Atom processor they are using in the initial run is a CPU and RAM on one package, all surface mounted. If you look at the dissected Mini 12, it's the same thing.
If the Dell Mini 10 is truly using the US15W chipset as was rumoured the issue is not that dell didn't want to allow more then 1 GB of RAM it's that the memory controller simply cannot address more the that. Saving power over that terrible 945 chipset most netbooks are hindered with means cutting features. The 945 based chipset found in most netbooks is rated at significantly higher power usage then atom itself since it's just an old chip intel has lying around. Poulsbo (code name for US15W) is much more in line with atom power draw and was actually designed for MIDs but there is no reason it can't run at netbook as well. If you need more then 1 GB of RAM in your netbook you're doing it wrong.
Atom lost out of order execution, higher clock speeds, faster bus and memory speeds, cache and performance in the quest for low power draw. The US15W chipset lost multiple memory channels, the ability to address more then 1 GB of ram, SATA and lots of legacy things like serial and parallel ports. It also doesn't use an intel graphics chip, it uses a PowerVR one (similar but more powerful to things found in the iphone or G1). While you lose more then 1 GB of RAM you do get a more modern graphics chip capable of hardware acceleration for h.264 720p and 1080i content.
^
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The only one who knows what he's talking about
And this is why - should the Ion platform ever see the light of day - NVidia will kick Intel's ass for chipsets. None of those limitations, far better graphics performance, and still excellent power consumption.
They should've kept SATA IMO, and ideally 2Gb RAM. When Ion starts shipping this 2 things should be address in order to keep Poulsbo in the game.
Now seriously...will this netbook be able to handle 720p resolution output and tv tuner card with just 1gig of ram?
...and Windows.
I have an old desktop with 1gb RAM which I use as a DVR; it handles 720p video fine. Though it's running mythTV and has a 2.6ghz p4 processor.
Do you know the difference between a 'desktop' running on P4 with 2.6GHz and a 'netbook' running on Atom 1.6GHz? And your desktop might even have a graphics card.
Desktop processors have way more processing power than notebook and netbook processors, even if its an old P4, not comparing the multi-core processors.
I know it wasn't a very valid comparison, which is why I stated the specs of the desktop.
According to their site, they are still saying up to 2GB under coming soon. I seriously hope coming soon is only a few weeks more. I want a Mini 10, but I want all the options.
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-10?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=lthp&s=dhs
I'm glad to see someone else paid attention: "More Storage – Do even more with optional 2GB memory and optional 250GB2 hard drive." From link Justin provided.
even sony vaio has 2gb ram
I was so excited about the Dell Mini 10... but all these limitations for the current model make no sense. None of the things I was excited about are even available on it yet. What a stupid move, Dell.
So no SATA either? This thing is going nowhere, kids...
I also saw where the MSI Wind U120 did the same thing with soldered on memory. The U100 did not have this problem. Google gives me this link:
http://jkontherun.com/2009/01/23/is-the-msi-wind-u120-limited-to-1gb-of-ram/
Disturbing trend. I want a netbook at some point soon, but I am not going to buy one that has memory that cannot be upgraded.
Ugh...This pisses me off. The one thing that was keeping me from buying the mini 9 was the low res screen. The one thing that will keep me from buying this piece of crap is the stupid soldered RAM.
HP Mini 2140 is still the one to get, as soon as those high-res screens start shipping.