"Unless you'll be firing up Aperture, Final Cut Pro or similar on a regular basis, you should probably pass."
Unless you are required to use those, you should probably pass. That is a ridiculous price for the hardware.
I know its a tired adage now, but you can build a computer with comparable performance for much less and still do the same things on it.
I've used Macs for video editing, and honestly, if you're concerned with budget, this isn't even a great option for the "clearly defined niche." Right now I'm editing 1080p files from my Canon 5D Mark II using Vegas Pro 8 (converting w/ Cineform), on a custom-built $2,700 machine, and I'm blazing through it.
I've used both platforms, and I still don't understand why people cling to the notion that Mac is the "industry standard." Yeah, well, more people use PCs than anything else and that doesn't make PCs superior (the majority of which are crap-bucket rigs from Best Buy running an OS they can't handle).
Moral of the story is: Don't believe the hype for any brand, Mac, PC, or otherwise. Do your research beforehand, and see which platform offers the best price/performance while meeting the other criteria that may be required. PCs can do a lot of those fancy "niche" things Macs can do -- you just have to do a little work and figure out the right software.
You do know that only one of the CPUs here costs like 1k$, right? So it definitely ain't better to build, cause you can get normal support from Apple plus a great OS without any hacks. I thought that building is best to keep prices down as much as possible and most custom builds come to around 1.5k$. Now just the CPUs costing over 2k$ you definitely blow your price point for building.
Sisyphus, good luck taking your Vegas project and sharing with other video professionals. No one uses that crap professional. It's either Avid, or FCP. And increasingly, it's FCP. Also, many video professionals don't want the hassle of figuring out who to blame when their rig stops working. Your home grown rig has no central authority if it goes down. You'll have to troubleshoot it yourself. Many professionals appreciate having an Apple Store nearby where they can go if something flaky starts happening with the hardware/software.
I'm not saying that building your own machine doesn't have its place. I've built many of my own. For surfing, email, and general home tasks, they are great. But for something I rely upon, and make my living at, I wouldn't entrust my home grown rig with it.
The Mac Pro's are expensive, and I'd never buy one. The iMac's are a much better value if you don't need the power of a quad core chip, or if you don't need PCI slots.
"You do know that only one of the CPUs here costs like 1k$, right? So it definitely ain't better to build, cause you can get normal support from Apple plus a great OS without any hacks."
Talking about CPUs and MSRPs is so passe in terms of performance.
"Your home grown rig has no central authority if it goes down. You'll have to troubleshoot it yourself. Many professionals appreciate having an Apple Store nearby where they can go if something flaky starts happening with the hardware/software."
There are plenty of people who can fix and troubleshoot custom PCs. This is a ridiculous assertion.
"Sisyphus, good luck taking your Vegas project and sharing with other video professionals. No one uses that crap professional. It's either Avid, or FCP. And increasingly, it's FCP."
"Just cause everyone else uses it" is not a great argument. There are plenty of people out there who are advanced amateurs who can afford some equipment and software, but not a supercomputer. I'm just saying that "Macs do audio/video editing" should not be the default position.
"For something I rely upon, and make my living at, I wouldn't entrust my home grown rig with it."
For every person who can troubleshoot and fix a Mac, there are a handful who can do the same for PCs. Just because it wasn't built buy a manufacturer doesn't mean it can't be troubleshooted (in fact, if you're going to someone who knows enough to fix your problem without asking if the monitor is plugged in, you generally don't go to a manufacturer first anyway).
I've only been using Vegas in an interim fashion (I have the demo) -- Adobe CS4 is not playing nice with my 5D Mark II yet, but I think it should support the new NeoScene soon.
To be honest , i am very anti pc but thats purely because of the os i love apple osx and could not see me ever going back to pc at this stage . I would happily build my own pc but would want osx and the support as far as i no isnt very good because it isnt legal. if someone offered an answer i would gladly except as i need a more powerful computer for uni.
Professionals DO NOT BUILD THEIR OWN MACHINES!! You will get laughed out of the building if you show up with a "custom rig". These are capable of running in mission critical installations because Apple spends literally millions of $$$ to design every component and overall design of these machines (a little more effective then comparing specs to check for compatibility on Newegg) and it shows in their relentless operation in just about every environment it's put in. It also takes advantage of technologies, like eliminating the bottleneck between the memory and processor, that you couldn't replicate if you wanted to. There aren't meant to be affordable to the average consumer and when you're talking about a business with basically unlimited funds for their computers, they want the best of the best, regardless of cost because they care SO much more about quality and dependability than saving a few hundred dollars.
It's honestly laughable that Engadget gave this a review as a gaming computer, especially with that video card. Gaming computers require graphics cards that are basically built specifically for gaming (no other applications can take advantage of the top end Nvidia/ATi chips like games can) and even with the very fastest processor, RAM, and HD's you'll barely run Quake III without the adequate card. It says absolutely NOTHING about the other components if they couldn't game on it.
"Professionals DO NOT BUILD THEIR OWN MACHINES!! You will get laughed out of the building if you show up with a "custom rig"."
What building? Try a little reading comprehension. I'm not talking about LED lights, sweet water cooling, and case stencils.
"It also takes advantage of technologies, like eliminating the bottleneck between the memory and processor, that you couldn't replicate if you wanted to."
Do you even know what you're talking about? Takes advantage of what technologies?
You mean like the removal of the FSB in favor of QPI? (That was Intel).
It's not true that the industry is shifting to FCP. Avid is still standard and industry leading. Also, people are shifting to HP workstations vs Mac workstations.
Andrew, you're introducing facts into a fanboy fight. That is illegal. Please stick to arguments at least 3 years in age, blind faith, and a penchant for buggery.
Yeah, whatever. I'm a full-on 3D Animator who works professionally and I build everything myself. I can outpace any computer build for half the price and they are rock solid.
Also, looking at this Mac Pro - this rig is an overpriced mess which STILL can't properly handle 3D Modeling or Animation. Fast renderer, that's about it.
If the quadcore was $1800, the octacore was $2500 then these machines would be decent.
Oh, and if you set up your purchase off the Apple Store... their price for the 32GB ram is completely out of line. I can get the same 32GB of ram at crucial.com for 1/3rd the price.
in most post-houses you don't work alone on a project. THAT is why a common piece of software is used in most parts of the industry. if you had to teach everyone to work effectively on your convoluted Vegas workflow, you would have wasted a lot of people's time and patience.
sure, your end result can come out looking the same as something that was made on FCP or AVID, but nobody else in the industry will be able to come in and give your project the final touches that are important in cooperatively-based environments.
go ahead and work on your own while you still can, but if you want to make yourself available for more serious projects, you will need to learn the industry standards.
thats not a hollywood trend. that is a group of 3 movies that moved to a HP workstation, and yes they will make it seem really really important because its a freaking HP website.
last year several of the oscar nominees were made entirely on Mac's using FCP. big deal. it is also a little bit easier for indipendant production companies to afford PC computers on such tight budgets, like the case for slumdog millionaire.
Avid works fine on both PC's and Mac's, so don't assume that because people are editing on Avid that they are switching to PC's.
the fact of the matter is that there weren't this many FCP users in the professional industry a decade ago, and now there is a very large presence. that is called a transition, and while it may not be happening overnight it is certainly happening. every company will have legit reasons for picking either Avid or FCP, but the fact that FCP is considered a worthy alternative means that it is a big name in hollywood, no matter how much that hurts your brain to think about.
What matters is the end product IMO. If Mr. Mac User delivers the same quality product on the same date as Mr. Homebuilt, except Mr. Homebuilt charges 10% less because he doesn't use overpriced hardware, do you think the customer cares that Mr. Mac User did it on God's gift to the video editing world?
No, he cares about the check he has to write.
If you have the knowledge and ability to build your own rig, you can save yourself both time and money. While Mr. Mac User is waiting in line at his local Apple Store for the Genius to clean gum out of some pre-teen's iPod, Mr. Homebuilt has probably already identified his own problem, solved it, and continued working.
Buying pre-built may work for you, and that's great. Personally I would rather rely on something I built myself than something assembled by $5 per week labor in China.
For those looking for a device strictly for reading, the new Kobo is a nice little option. It's small enough to slip into a pocket, can do more with a PDF than the competition, and at $129, it's $10 cheaper than both the Nook and Kindle WiFi.
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"Unless you'll be firing up Aperture, Final Cut Pro or similar on a regular basis, you should probably pass."
Unless you are required to use those, you should probably pass. That is a ridiculous price for the hardware.
I know its a tired adage now, but you can build a computer with comparable performance for much less and still do the same things on it.
I've used Macs for video editing, and honestly, if you're concerned with budget, this isn't even a great option for the "clearly defined niche." Right now I'm editing 1080p files from my Canon 5D Mark II using Vegas Pro 8 (converting w/ Cineform), on a custom-built $2,700 machine, and I'm blazing through it.
I've used both platforms, and I still don't understand why people cling to the notion that Mac is the "industry standard." Yeah, well, more people use PCs than anything else and that doesn't make PCs superior (the majority of which are crap-bucket rigs from Best Buy running an OS they can't handle).
Moral of the story is: Don't believe the hype for any brand, Mac, PC, or otherwise. Do your research beforehand, and see which platform offers the best price/performance while meeting the other criteria that may be required. PCs can do a lot of those fancy "niche" things Macs can do -- you just have to do a little work and figure out the right software.
Nice review though. Thanks, Engadget.
You do know that only one of the CPUs here costs like 1k$, right?
So it definitely ain't better to build, cause you can get normal support from Apple plus a great OS without any hacks.
I thought that building is best to keep prices down as much as possible and most custom builds come to around 1.5k$. Now just the CPUs costing over 2k$ you definitely blow your price point for building.
Sisyphus, good luck taking your Vegas project and sharing with other video professionals. No one uses that crap professional. It's either Avid, or FCP. And increasingly, it's FCP. Also, many video professionals don't want the hassle of figuring out who to blame when their rig stops working. Your home grown rig has no central authority if it goes down. You'll have to troubleshoot it yourself. Many professionals appreciate having an Apple Store nearby where they can go if something flaky starts happening with the hardware/software.
I'm not saying that building your own machine doesn't have its place. I've built many of my own. For surfing, email, and general home tasks, they are great. But for something I rely upon, and make my living at, I wouldn't entrust my home grown rig with it.
The Mac Pro's are expensive, and I'd never buy one. The iMac's are a much better value if you don't need the power of a quad core chip, or if you don't need PCI slots.
Those two xeon processors (when they are released, apple got them early) will cost 1500+ alone. It's not as overpriced as you think.
I was with you up until you mentioned you're using Vegas. Oh snap!
"You do know that only one of the CPUs here costs like 1k$, right?
So it definitely ain't better to build, cause you can get normal support from Apple plus a great OS without any hacks."
Talking about CPUs and MSRPs is so passe in terms of performance.
"Your home grown rig has no central authority if it goes down. You'll have to troubleshoot it yourself. Many professionals appreciate having an Apple Store nearby where they can go if something flaky starts happening with the hardware/software."
There are plenty of people who can fix and troubleshoot custom PCs. This is a ridiculous assertion.
"Sisyphus, good luck taking your Vegas project and sharing with other video professionals. No one uses that crap professional. It's either Avid, or FCP. And increasingly, it's FCP."
"Just cause everyone else uses it" is not a great argument. There are plenty of people out there who are advanced amateurs who can afford some equipment and software, but not a supercomputer. I'm just saying that "Macs do audio/video editing" should not be the default position.
"For something I rely upon, and make my living at, I wouldn't entrust my home grown rig with it."
For every person who can troubleshoot and fix a Mac, there are a handful who can do the same for PCs. Just because it wasn't built buy a manufacturer doesn't mean it can't be troubleshooted (in fact, if you're going to someone who knows enough to fix your problem without asking if the monitor is plugged in, you generally don't go to a manufacturer first anyway).
Anex:
You're right -- I should have said the price is "high," not "ridiculous."
Amish:
I've only been using Vegas in an interim fashion (I have the demo) -- Adobe CS4 is not playing nice with my 5D Mark II yet, but I think it should support the new NeoScene soon.
To be honest , i am very anti pc but thats purely because of the os i love apple osx and could not see me ever going back to pc at this stage . I would happily build my own pc but would want osx and the support as far as i no isnt very good because it isnt legal. if someone offered an answer i would gladly except as i need a more powerful computer for uni.
Professionals DO NOT BUILD THEIR OWN MACHINES!! You will get laughed out of the building if you show up with a "custom rig". These are capable of running in mission critical installations because Apple spends literally millions of $$$ to design every component and overall design of these machines (a little more effective then comparing specs to check for compatibility on Newegg) and it shows in their relentless operation in just about every environment it's put in. It also takes advantage of technologies, like eliminating the bottleneck between the memory and processor, that you couldn't replicate if you wanted to. There aren't meant to be affordable to the average consumer and when you're talking about a business with basically unlimited funds for their computers, they want the best of the best, regardless of cost because they care SO much more about quality and dependability than saving a few hundred dollars.
It's honestly laughable that Engadget gave this a review as a gaming computer, especially with that video card. Gaming computers require graphics cards that are basically built specifically for gaming (no other applications can take advantage of the top end Nvidia/ATi chips like games can) and even with the very fastest processor, RAM, and HD's you'll barely run Quake III without the adequate card. It says absolutely NOTHING about the other components if they couldn't game on it.
"Professionals DO NOT BUILD THEIR OWN MACHINES!! You will get laughed out of the building if you show up with a "custom rig"."
What building? Try a little reading comprehension. I'm not talking about LED lights, sweet water cooling, and case stencils.
"It also takes advantage of technologies, like eliminating the bottleneck between the memory and processor, that you couldn't replicate if you wanted to."
Do you even know what you're talking about? Takes advantage of what technologies?
You mean like the removal of the FSB in favor of QPI? (That was Intel).
It's not true that the industry is shifting to FCP. Avid is still standard and industry leading. Also, people are shifting to HP workstations vs Mac workstations.
http://thenextbench.com/t5/Blog/The-Hardware-Behind-the-Hardware/ba-p/30548#A709
Just thought that was cool.
Andrew, you're introducing facts into a fanboy fight. That is illegal. Please stick to arguments at least 3 years in age, blind faith, and a penchant for buggery.
Professionals don't build their own machines?
Yeah, whatever. I'm a full-on 3D Animator who works professionally and I build everything myself. I can outpace any computer build for half the price and they are rock solid.
Also, looking at this Mac Pro - this rig is an overpriced mess which STILL can't properly handle 3D Modeling or Animation. Fast renderer, that's about it.
If the quadcore was $1800, the octacore was $2500 then these machines would be decent.
Oh, and if you set up your purchase off the Apple Store... their price for the 32GB ram is completely out of line. I can get the same 32GB of ram at crucial.com for 1/3rd the price.
@Sisyphus
in most post-houses you don't work alone on a project. THAT is why a common piece of software is used in most parts of the industry. if you had to teach everyone to work effectively on your convoluted Vegas workflow, you would have wasted a lot of people's time and patience.
sure, your end result can come out looking the same as something that was made on FCP or AVID, but nobody else in the industry will be able to come in and give your project the final touches that are important in cooperatively-based environments.
go ahead and work on your own while you still can, but if you want to make yourself available for more serious projects, you will need to learn the industry standards.
@ Andrew Prashad
thats not a hollywood trend. that is a group of 3 movies that moved to a HP workstation, and yes they will make it seem really really important because its a freaking HP website.
last year several of the oscar nominees were made entirely on Mac's using FCP. big deal. it is also a little bit easier for indipendant production companies to afford PC computers on such tight budgets, like the case for slumdog millionaire.
Avid works fine on both PC's and Mac's, so don't assume that because people are editing on Avid that they are switching to PC's.
the fact of the matter is that there weren't this many FCP users in the professional industry a decade ago, and now there is a very large presence. that is called a transition, and while it may not be happening overnight it is certainly happening. every company will have legit reasons for picking either Avid or FCP, but the fact that FCP is considered a worthy alternative means that it is a big name in hollywood, no matter how much that hurts your brain to think about.
utahnkid:
That's copypasta.
What matters is the end product IMO. If Mr. Mac User delivers the same quality product on the same date as Mr. Homebuilt, except Mr. Homebuilt charges 10% less because he doesn't use overpriced hardware, do you think the customer cares that Mr. Mac User did it on God's gift to the video editing world?
No, he cares about the check he has to write.
If you have the knowledge and ability to build your own rig, you can save yourself both time and money. While Mr. Mac User is waiting in line at his local Apple Store for the Genius to clean gum out of some pre-teen's iPod, Mr. Homebuilt has probably already identified his own problem, solved it, and continued working.
Buying pre-built may work for you, and that's great. Personally I would rather rely on something I built myself than something assembled by $5 per week labor in China.