Palm posts net loss of $95 million for Q3, reaffirms that Pre is on schedule
By Laura June 
posted Mar 20th 2009 12:44PM
posted Mar 20th 2009 12:44PM
Palm's third quarter earnings report for 2009 has dropped, and it's looking pretty rough for the old boys. The company posted a net loss of $95 million dollars in the quarter, and sold 482,000 units where it sold 833,000 in the same quarter last year. Palm's total earnings for the quarter fell 71 percent over last year, from $312 million to just $90.6 million. Palm stock fell a net 53 cents quarter over quarter, though it's made some recent significant gains. CEO Ed Colligan was quick to point out, however, that its much-touted and anxiously awaited Pre (with the new webOS) is on target for its release date in the "second quarter." The heat is officially on.
they really reeaally need this phone to do good
Looks like Palm is going down the drain...
If PRE can't run iMOB, I won't even look at it.
123-75-1495
PALM needs to do two things: demonstrate that they can do games just as well as the iPhone and GIVE US A FREAKING DATE for the release. I like the Pre, but the App Store is just too big to ignore. My interest is starting to wane waiting for this thing.
Agree, the phone needs to be very solid at launch, or Palm is probably done. Apple is sitting on a mountain of cash and can afford to wait three revisions to get their phone right. If the Pre flops, or even just stumbles out of the gate, then its probably game over for PALM. They need to sell a crap-load of these things just to get to break even.
Wait a second...They put webos in the palm?
Looks like, Palm is going for "all-in"
@Chapel
I haven't seen the SDK firsthand, but how I understand it all the development is being done in Javascript and HTML/CSS. If that is the case, I don't see how anyone will be able to implement any real 3D gaming on the device. Javascript + OpenGL bindings? Custom graphics library for javascript? I can't see any solution like that working very well at all..
@looselycoupled
Well, PALM's game problem has been clear to me for a couple months now, but a spokesperson for PALM commented that they had a solution for games, and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but the odds are stacked against them.
PALM has tried to follow Apple's lead in other areas and failed. Remember those PALM branded stores? No? Yeah, they didn't do so hot. I am very skeptical that they will make this work, but who knows, they may be able to pull something off. I mean, the Pre does have Flash, so maybe they'll have Flash games.
On second thought, Flash games suck too. PALM IS DOOMED!!!
Oh, yeah, this company is going to do great when it comes to customer support. Every six months, you'll get an OS bug fix and be lucky to get that much. People get upset when their devices need to be fixed and the Palm staff is probably cut to the bone. And Palm is going to be hooked up with Sprint, another loser of a carrier. Good luck, Pre. You're gonna need it.
The Pre was designed to show off Palm's capabilities if they can get some company to buy them out. I think that Dell would be a likely choice. I think they'd love to dump WinMo-powered products and run webOS. Microsoft really should buy Palm out, so they can get rid of some of the competition that threatens WinMo.
I'm buying Palm stock.
Now.
haha, I already did... and made $360 bucks last week :D
You kinda missed your chance. It was like $1.50 in December and has been sticking between $7-8 for the past month or so while people wait on the Pre.
I am so effen pissed that I didn't buy Palm back in December like I had considered.
I feel bad for PALM because they have a great phone, but the iPhone train is going to crush them. We still don't know what the next iPhone will be capable of. If Apple upgrades the hard drive to 30 GB and adds a better camera, it's over for the Pre.
Done. Finito.
hard drive? What kind of iPhone have you got?
Also, no. Some people want the seamless online integration, the innovation, the hardware keyboard.
Horses for courses.
PLEASE PEOPLE, I BEG YOU, I URGE YOU NOT TO REPLY TO THIS TROLL AFTER I POST THIS, LET HIM REPLY TO HIMSELF, AND LET WHO AGREE WITH HIM ENJOY THE CONVERSATION.
END IT NOW, PLEASE.
I think the bigger problem for PALM is that they just can't compete with the ecosystem that Apple has built. If Windows has taught us anything it's that ecosystem trumps all. An OS like Windows can crash, get viruses, and just stink to high heaven, but if people can get their games and do their little projects at work, then that's all that matters.
Apple seems to have learned that lesson when they catered to games so well with the iPhone. This peer-to-peer function is going to be a boon to that market, especially since there are enough iPhones and iPod touches for it to be feasible.
Nah, I think the bigger problem for Palm is Sprint. I was with Sprint for two years and the last few months my phone started to get shut off cause someone screwed up my billing info after I started to pay online. I jumped through hoops getting them to change it, after being on hold for thirty minutes at a time before speaking to someone in India.
The next month came and the same thing happened. Whatever the customer service rep did in India, didn't get translated to the home office. After 3 months of this, I just switched to AT&T and got an iPhone. Luckily, the second version was coming out about then. I couldn't be happier now. Of course, copy and paste would be nice.
Sprint will be a problem. Their stock isn't doing to hot lately either. It's down almost 4% today.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=S
Sprint has some nice cell plans though, so maybe they'll pull out of this mess. I don't think people are looking for expensive plans in this economy. It would be nice if you could get an iPhone with just a data plan. Maybe then I could afford one. I'm looking at the iPod touch right now. Might buy it and use Fring on the Wi-Fi network at work.
I've been sitting on the fence for months though. My MacBook Pro meets most of my needs right now.
P.A.C. Man = Paul A. Chapel Man?
@dan: Pretty much.
I wouldn't count Palm down yet just because the iPhone is the current darling. The iPhone has gotten a lot of the trendy masses due to flashy games and lots of ads but those of us who have real work to do have done fine devices that don't require us to give up the key functionality we have had for years.
There will always be a large group of people who were fine with their RAZRs and now have moved on to the iPhone because it offers more than they had with their dumbphones and is the current "it" device. That market is separate from the one made of people who need actual keyboards, actual multitasking, actual tethering, actual Exchange sync, and all those other things we've had forever and Apple has just now deigned to offer very recently.
Let the kids have their toys and let the grownups get our work done.
Apple fanboys are like christians - they can't seem to comprehend that some other people just don't worship the same thing they do.
No matter how much the iPhone improves, a lot of people still just won't like it.
@Saad Rabia
You're just as much of a troll.
I embarrassed Saad one day when he was swooning over the Pre and defending it's lack of ability to play games. I dug up an old quote where he was talking about the importance of gaming on hand held devices like the Zune and now he's got this vendetta against me, which is ironic since he now claims to want a iPhone.
Pay him no mind. He's just playa hatin'
"I embarrassed Saad one day..."
nope that's not it cause i can tell 99.9% of the people here want you to go away. that other 0.1% are just your other usernames.
Firstttttttt
iPhone forever.
Typical iDude, never first.
Maybe if you would of had a real keyboard you would of typed faster and actually been first?
Or maybe the lack of multitasking didnt allow you to be first?
or or or you havnt paid your $10 for your iPod touch and haven't added the new thing that apple just innovated called copy,cut and paste, and you woulda been able to copy the sentence and pasted it on every new engadget post?
Which one was it that let you to your astronomical fail?
Come on Palm, get it to the UK! Asap!
PALM was a little more "exact" with the expected due date for the Pre - they said "15 weeks" in addition to the usual "1st half 2009".
They also mentioned that NEITHER the hardware nor software of the Pre was complete, nullifying the rumors that production has begun.
> Pre (with the new webOS) is on target for its release date in the "second quarter."
The fiscal second quarter that ends on March 31st? Or literally the 2nd quarter of the year, June 30th?
Palm was a little more exact with the expected due date of the Pre - they said "15 weeks" in addition to the usual "1st half 2009". 15 weeks is, of course, late June (or earliest July).
They ALSO said NEITHER the hardware nor the software is complete yet, thus nullifying those rumors about the Pre being in production already.
PALM is a played stock - it'll probably settle back down near $7.50 by the close today.
never make ANY assumptions based on Palm's stock price movement.
Palm really needs this to come out before the next iPhone.
oghowie,
while i see the importance of being the first out, the fact that their phone is going to be on par, if not better in some regards, than the iphone, AND is in its first generation, gives Palm a little leeway.
some points of concern:
-pricepoint
-will they continue to enhance/refine (similar to how apple has worked with the iphone OS)
-sprint
the fact is that it is not simply make or break with the PRE, they are also pushing there new OS, which in the long run, across multiple phones, could be a very serious contender.
Yeah but it won't. They couldn't even get the Treo Pro out on time. They'll be lucky if the Pre doesn't suffer from any serious delays.
The new 32gb iPhone will drop right on top of it. Palm is finished.
Adding to points of concern,
WebOS seems pretty cool, but since the applications are basically JavaScript, HTML and CSS based, I wonder how they plan to (if they even do) create full 3D motion games.
Can I, as a developer, write an application using Java or C for the Pre? If not I think this is going to be a bit of a problem in competing with the iPhone. Like it or hate it, You can do a lot more in Objective C than you can in JavaScript and HTML.
Not bashing, this is my understanding of how Pre apps will be created. If I'm wrong please educate me.
Can you really do anything in Objective-C that can't be done in javascript? Check these Google demos out:
http://www.chromeexperiments.com/
> ...Can I, as a developer, write an application using Java or C for the Pre?...
No, unless you are one of the very special companies that Palm has mentioned.
BTW, the SDK is not going to be released to the general developer population until well after the Pre is released. So even if you WANT to write in exposed-to-all HTML/Javascript you will not be able to.
@CraigJ -- if you are a programmer you should love challenges.
The centro sold relatively well for awhile, but I don't they made much profit off those units. The Pre will certainly net a greater profit. How many units do you think Palm needs to sell to recoup R&D costs and get out the red?
You failed to mention that its the SEVENTH consecutive quarter they've made a loss.
One more quarter and it'll be 2 years without profit.
Risin' up, back on the street
Did my time, took my chances
Went the distance, now I'm back on my feet
Just a man and his will to survive ....
Chorus:
It's the eye of the tiger, it's the cream of the fight
Risin' up to the challenge of our rival (Iphone 3.0)
And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night
And he's watchin' us all in the eye of the tiger
fail
Seems like it's a little too late for Palm. I doubt they'll make it with Pre.
I second. The Pre may not be too little, but it may very well be too late to save Palm.
I also fail to understand why they would lock a device as remarkable as the Pre, which thy are -CLEARLY- positioning as an iPhone killer, to a single carrier. And a carrier, mind you, that seems to be having problems of its own. I guess that the Verizon Wireless Bridge and Iron Works has been burned too many times by Palm and is now so deeply entrenched with the Storm media blitz that maybe they took a pass on the Pre?
Too bad, too--I would've loved to see the Pre with a Verizon logo on it. It would certainly have given my Curve a run for its money...
Remember how horribly Apple was doing before the first iMac came out? Everybody in the world was expecting them to quietly go out of business because they were too far gone to be recoverable. Look where they are now, it's never too late if you've got a revolutionary product to release.
> ...I also fail to understand why they would lock a device as remarkable as the Pre, which thy
> are -CLEARLY- positioning as an iPhone killer, to a single carrier...
One must remember that the previous TWO high-end phones that came out of Palm - the Treo 800 and the Treo Pro - failed to get into carriers (at least the major US ones). They could NOT risk that with the Pre.
Plus they're planning on selling extra-cost web-based services to Pre owners - I read "web-based services" as "Sprint-resident servers", BTW.
Maybe. The state of the economy could be the final nail in the coffin regardless of how good the Pre is, if people aren't buying in the required numbers.
I'm hoping they get a buy out.
hmmm.... 2009? Really?
I thought the same thing...
Is it just me or are we really in the 1st quarter of 2009?
Correct me if I'm wrong...This could be for Q3 2008, but taking into consideration that we are almost through with the Q1 of 2009, Palm should be letting out results for Q4 '08 or 2008 results altogether.
Remember that carriers are under pressure by the companies who's phones they sell.
Rogers in Canada had to do a lot of work to be the sole carrier of the iPhone. As such, Rogers cannot carry the Storm or any direct competitor of the iPhone. If they did, Apple would drop the contract and allow other carriers in Canada to use the iPhone.
The same goes for other carriers in the states too.
Heat is on hell. The water is already boiling and their goose is about to be cooked. If the Pre fails at launch (the launch window will be very very important) Palm is gone.
I think the Pre will be very successful. A lot of non iPhone people are heavily anticipating its launch. Unless Palm screws up majorly, the Pre will be a success.
Really? A lot of iPhone users are anticipating the Pre and ready to jump!?
Got a link?...
he said "non iphone users" learn to read. i have many links for that.
hahaha. that was funny ljit
@freakn
1) Read carefully before responding. He said non iPhone users. 2) Actually, I've read a lot of forum responses from individuals claiming to be iPhone users that are aching to get this phone. The numbers will tell if they are lying or not.
Everybody seems hopeless. There is a real big investment and we're talking about a company's future... What do you want to do with iphone 32gb, what is the thing you cannot do with 16gb version?? They played their card and made a successful OS with first iphone, but changing things are not easy, they even couldn't officially announced the copy and paste integration for 2 years. Althought the jailbroken ones were already using this feature and video recording, they decided not to add, in some way... It's not only pre they release, also The new Web OS. And they are going to improve it with the revenue they get from pre. It's not gonna be a single handset like apple does...
come on GSM Pre that works on AT&T's 3G....
now that would be some direct competition to the iphone
when exactly will palm pre be available in the usa?
According to Ed Colligan last night, within 15 weeks.
15 weeks? this Colligan character you speak of... he couldn't have just said 4 months... wow, Devs already have iPhone OS 3.0 SDK.. and the Pre is gonna come after we already got iPhone 3.0. and after the June Apple Keynote.
That's insane.
i really think palm is screwed...they just keep issuing stock to pay other debtors hoping that at some point theyll make a bundle. the pre sounds awesome but there are at least a handful of reasons they COULD be totally f*ck*d
-its coming out on Sprint, have they not realized that's a significant detriment?
-is it just me or does it look uncomfortable to type on...look at how long it is when opened, the ergonomics are nice but may be annoying when holding in hand which defeats the advantage of the physical keyboard
-i know the OS is probably the best out there (or will be, even against iPhone 3.0 and Cupcake) but at the end of the day, you need something that will blow people away to really penetrate a market and again its on Sprint...id rather have a phone that cant multitask than be on that network
-though im looking forward to commercials with santa claus using a new phone, their marketing has sucked in my opinion (i know the centro actually did sort of okay)
does anyone really think this can save Palm?
You're an idiot. :)
Gotta agree with cmil. A LOT of us here in the actual world are Sprint customers and like it. In my area the service is great and Sprint has EVDO while ATT is still on EDGE here. Being an iphone sheep getting assraped monthly by ATT is a detriment, dick.
I see no reason palm cant be saved by the pre and everyother WedOS device that comes out afterward.
For every iphone or At&T lover theres a Sprint and whatever phone they have on sprint lover...I have had Sprint for 8yrs and only had one problem with them. My current plan is HALF and iphone plan and i get unlimited WEB and TEXT. Now even with a higher plan of $70 for the Pre (assumed lowest Pre plan) Ill still be getting more then any other iohone user and have a service thats better and more stable 3G.
And SOME people hate AT&T and their spotty service and dont need a big screen phone or want to be tied into the APPLE ecosystem.. WebOS seems to offer freedom that IPHONE OS doesnt. I have a ton of friends with iphones and hardly any of them use the Apps store to purchase apps, only free stuff..As long as WebOS has no major drawbacks itll be a hit. Every Sprint user will want it.Demand will be large.
Pricing is where Palm and Sprint might lose customers. if they price it right Americans with disposable cash will flock to buy it. if its to expensive people will keep their phones or go to APPLE.
"My current plan is HALF and iphone plan and i get unlimited WEB and TEXT"
Considering that is nowhere near the real cost of a blackberry/smartphone plan on sprint, you obviously have some sort of discounted plan that normal people don't have access to... So lets not go comparing apples and oranges here..
I agree with Neeko about Sprint's plans
I have a 300 minute plan (I'm not a heavy phone user)
Unlimited data (and I tether to my phone for work)
Unlimited Messaging (I had 685 Text messages last month)
My bill $53 a month
@cmil1212 "You're an idiot. :)"
Wow, do you have nothing better to do than troll these boards and talk nonsense? I must say I'm tired of seeing your posts on here, you have absolutely nothing interesting to contribute. Do us all a favor and STFU.
If you don't agree he's an idiot, then you're one as well..lol
my parents will go to NY at the end of may.do you think that it will be available for that time? WIll it be sold free to use in europe?
It won't work in Europe, even if you bring it there, on contract or not. Europe isn't very CDMA/EV-DO friendly. CDMA tech is only found in any abundance in North America, Japan and Korea. I believe it is pretty much phased out of Australia, but I could be wrong there. You will have to wait for a GSM/UMTS/HSPA version.
really sure?
just wondering what palm took long for the release of the pre? hhmmm.. perhaps the palm pre released at CES is just a flash animated demo, not a real one. or perhaps they are still building the OS of the Pre. or perhaps, Palm has no programmers to compile their OS.
Ubuntu wont take several months for the compilation of their OS
what?
you realize there are Pre's floating around right now, right? they don't have flash animated demos.
ubuntu is open source and has thousands of nerds working on it at all times. Palm probably has 100 people working on web-OS. they also want to fix as many bugs and security problems as they can before this gets out the door. Ubuntu has been out the door for years and is being built upon every day by those thousands of people.
What exactly does Ubuntu have to do with WebOS anyways?
I think this big loss is due to the fact that some people are holding off on buying Palm devices until their next generation devices come out.
Does iPhone have anything to do with this???
Here is my question:
Why are you willing to lose millions of dollars and losing market share to stall the release date on this amazing and break-through phone? Clearly it works, you need a better battery. When the iPhone was introduced it took Apple ONE month to release it. WHY!!!! : ( Please give us Sprint and palm fans something brag about AT&T service sucks. And Sprint is way cooler and faster than any service I have ever tried. Plus I would be happy to be tester and blog on the Art Institute of Dallas blog. That’s where I go to school. And what’s better to showoff a phone like that at a world renowned school of design and techno geeks. Forward this email to Palm, your CEO whatever. Sprint does have its challenges technology isn’t one of them. This phone rocks!!!! Release it!!!!
Showgirl643
when the Pre comes out it's really not going to hurt the iPhone. On the contrary, the only one poised to hurt here is WinMo. You see, Apple, Blackberry, Google, Nokia and (hopefully) Palm know how to compete, all bring talent and innovation to the table. On the other hand, the only thing Microsoft knows how to do smear campaigns and oppose competition. They don't know how to compete and that is why they will get torn to shreds.
It’s taking far, far too long to get this thing to market. The buzz after their initial announcement has waned and now we are all excited about iPhone 3.0 and some likely new iphone hardware to boot. My personal zeal for Pre is gone as I now anxiously await the new iphone. Things change too fast anymore. You can’t announce a device like the Pre and expect everyone will wait 6 months because they won’t and because they don’t have to. The playing field changes now every couple of months as different devices are announced with different capabilities. By the time the Pre is delivered, there will be three or four new devices that do pretty much the same thing AND a new iphone which will likely do more - WHICH by the way will instantly be in the hands of some 17 million phones in June. How’s that for a head start?
Sorry Palm - it is officially over!