Engadget Podcast 141 - 04.10.2009
By Trent Wolbe 
posted April 10th 2009 2:16PM
posted April 10th 2009 2:16PM
That's right everyone -- it's the Engadget Podcast. If you're down with gadgets, chatting, and just kicking it ill, you're in the right place. Hear your friends Josh, Paul, and Nilay discuss the week in technology, and expound on their belief that the P.U.M.A. is a dangerous rickshaw, Acer has stepped up to the netbook plate in a big way, and Microsoft might not be totally on the level with its new ads. Ready to get the blood boiling? Dip your toes into the jacuzzi of chat that is the podcast, and enjoy!
Note: There appears to be some very weird timing issues going on with our audio in this installment. If it seems like we're talking over each other more than normal, don't be too alarmed. We're looking into it now.
Hosts: Joshua Topolsky, Nilay Patel, Paul Miller
Producer: Trent Wolbe
Song: Back In Black
01:40 - Engadget's wild ride in the P.U.M.A.
15:35 - Peapod the friendly Neighborhood Electric Vehicle in the flesh
24:40 - Acer launches first NVIDIA Ion-based nettop: AspireRevo
35:15 - Acer announces Aspire Timeline thin'n'lights -- $699 to $899
46:15 - Microsoft's second Laptop Hunters commercial: Giampaulo buys an HP HDX
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Ah I wanted to hear you guys talk about Time Warner's bandwidth caps :(
this was recorded yesterday before all that news broke. But I'm looking forward to some thorough hating on TW in next week's podcast! :)
I just would love to actually hear why Topolsky thinks Vista is "broke piece of software" and "thats forced onto users". I mean do these guys listen to themselves? Sounds like bunch of hurt iBoi's venting now that finally Microsoft has made ANY type of argument for their side.
Whens the last time you saw a Get a Mac ad, that mentioned OSX or compared features. It was always highly disingenous blanket claims like those made by Josh. It as though the 23% of users other on Vista are somehow slogging through everyday debuggin code and diagnosing BSOD's.
MSFT's ad agency has struck gold. Their brining out all the supposed 'objective' iCabal in the press to rear their teeth and act like you've just insulted their mother. And I love how it didn't make sense to Josh why they'd be stressing the economics of purchasing a PC in this financial climate until Paul pointed it out. And then he says that "Short Sighted" as though Ad's are designed for the long term.
Hmm, now if only you could give the same level of sceptism to Apple ads
While talking about the Microsoft ads, you guys sounded like little girls who are crying because their Barbie got stolen! I swear it is so funny that I laughed throughout the first 5 minutes of your discussion! Lol. You talk about how they don't show the targeted PC in ad much, well, did you forgot the stupid Mac vs PC ads, they had no machines showing at all, yet you point this out like some sort of a disease in this ad!
How can't you guys see that these ads have more than than just one target? They aren't only trying to bash the Mac, they are actually getting the word on buying a PC out there, people are scared of buying anything these days, and this is a great fun way to market these products and increase sales.
OMG Engadget! You guys are supposed to be geeks! People who understand the technology world, not some crying babies! How come you don't talk about the great new technologies that Mac still lack and wont put in their systems? Or is it important only when Jobs says so? How could you ignore the aspect of "Choice" in the PC world? And yes, you can buy a cheaper laptop with Linux, but face it, the only two OSs that can be managed by anybody in this world are either Windows or Mac OS, and if Windows Machines are cheaper then it is the best choice to get.
Then you talk about Vista being so bad, what are you guys on?! how could it be that people like you get so blind by fake rumors and wrong facts!
I swear you people talk like if you are working for Apple! It is getting crazy everyday. You keep posting badly-toned MS articles, even if they do everything right, then you bitch about things that are manageable in the smallest amount of time.
Productivity is equal between both systems, I do my graphic work, business and fun all inside Vista with a 3-year old PC, What are you Mac users doing more that is more "Productive"?? taking pictures and adding some filters to them? What is productivity for you guys?!
OMG, I could go forever pointing out the stupid stuff you guys talk about. One day I will meet up with you all and look at your face with every point you bring up and burn you with honest answers. For now enjoy sitting behind the walls and keep taking the Apple money.
If you hate listening to the endgadget editors' podcasts so much, then why don't you just stop listening? There's more to the podcast than just cold hard facts, they also talk about their opinions on things, and just have general discussion about stuff. You don't have to agree with all of it, nor do you have to listen to the podcasts. You are the one who comes off as a whiner.
Man, usually I don't listen to Engadget podcasts, but this pathetic rant makes me want to watch it now. God forbid if someone doesn't like exactly what Saad likes. He's the center of the universe!
Richard, shut up man. I'm not in the mood of arguing about this stupid nonsense you people always post about not visiting this site or not listening to the podcast! Have some thought before talking. I was pointing out part of the podcast and I added my input and opinion, end of the freaking story.
P.A.C Man, keep posting the stupid stats you always post, that is the only thing you are good at.
Saad,
I'll be honest. I didn't really care much for this week's podcast (I didn't even finish it). But I don't understand why you feel the need to be so vitriolic about it.
It's been my opinion that Mac users fall into two categories:
1) Users that prefer the better memory management and stability that *ix systems can bring, and don't mind paying more for nice hardware and out-of-the box functionality. It's also my understanding that many professionals prefer Final Cut Pro to Adobe Premiere--with the rise of digital video, this is a BIG difference.
2) Users that like the hardware, and don't mind using the operating system. For the most part, OS X exists to sell computers, as opposed to the other way around with Windows.
Personally, I'm a Windows XP user. I've always used Windows, and I'm used to how Windows works. But...if I'd grown up using Macs, I'd feel the same way about Macs. The so-called "apple tax" would be worth it to keep computing the way I do. Yeah, I'd be curious to hear what the Engadget editors feel makes Mac OS more "pleasurable" and how they are more "productive", but really, it all comes down to the way we do things, and not everyone does things the same way.
Bottom line: people compute differently, and that's why the market is as diverse as it is.
Plus, with the way cloud computing is going, OS will eventually only matter for very specifc things, such as gaming or graphics or video editing. I've got news for you...consumer electronics is driven by the mass market. The vast majority of computer users care more about what they DO as opposed to what the run, making the whole OS debate moot. I agree with you in that I didn't like that segment, but getting bent out of shape about it really serves no purpose to your point, nor to the "debate" as a whole.
you got a problem make your own site make a podcast and then bitch about these guys and adds and everything between. Nobody bad mouths Endgadget or any of its editors. I am both a apple and an endgadget fanboy
Editors:
You mentioned when talking about the PUMA, that you didn't really understand why GM is developing this product, that nobody has asked for. I was kind of thinking about that, and I think they are doing it to "show" that they are developing eco-friendly transportation in order to qualify for the big billion dollar bailout checks. Cash grab! Just like how they did with the electric cars piloted here in southern CA a number of years back, they never marketed them and had no intent on ever selling them, they just wanted to "show" that they were developing this technology.
This was my thought exactly. GM has this habit "faking" progress for PR reasons.
About laptops and OS on them, here in Europe we get to choose OS free/Windows/Linux... Do you guys in US don't get that chance to choose?
And yeah, Windows Vista kinda sux :)
dudes, quit talking over each other. looking at you Topolsky
Actually we had an audio syncing issue today. New files should be up now.
I'm hoping this comments section doesn't devolve into Mac/PC flame fest. Saad, you had some valid points (not all, but some), just tone down the passion and snarkasm a little bit. Yes, that segment did go on for a bit long than they intended, but I guess that, in some ways, is a reflection of how these blog sites have been affected by these commercials.
The points from the podcast that I would argue against are:
1 - that these commercials are any different than the "I'm a Mac" ad campaign. For the most part they both do the same thing, which is focus on superficial aspects, and never really focus on the product itself. You can look at the 2006 ads on Apple's site to compare.
2 - that Microsoft isn't justified in "firing back" against those Apple commercials. If you poke the bear... Apple chose to do attack ads (as funny and well done as they were), and that makes them fair game. They could have easily done Mac commercials similar to those great iPhone ads.
3 - that Vista is a terrible piece of software. It ain't great...BELIEVE ME. But I do no many people who use vista daily for their needs and have never had a problem (except understanding the office 2007 ribbon). I know because I'm the guy they would call if they did. That said, I'm still running XP, because I think it's better.
Best line in the whole podcast "we are not our devices" (I'm paraphrasing). That and how someone was dreaming about John Hodgman (creepy)
Why do Apple fans bring it up that you can run Windows on a Mac, but you can't run MacOS on a PC? There are two reasons for that: a) Apple made it illegal, and b) MacOS is very inferior to Windows when it comes to hardware support. You can argue that both things are by design and they made Apple rich etc., but I don't think you can argue that it makes MacOS better than Windows, or Apple better than Microsoft. In fact, unlike Apple, Microsoft didn't do anything to prevent people from using Windows on Apple machines.
In other words, you say that Macs are better than PCs because they can run MacOS _and_ Windows. I say that Windows is better than MacOS because it runs on PC _and_ Macs.
@Pies
Excellent point Windows IS a better OS because it can run on anything. MacOS can barely run on anything (OSx86 works well on many devices though).
I certainly hope the Palm Pre works our, because something has got to pull you Engadget fools away from Apple. You guys have been sucked into a black hole of Apple love and are so biased and blind, it gets funnier and more outrageous every day.
What's really funny (beside the fact that the commercials are SOOO much like the Mac vs PC commercials) is that not only are Apple commercials all snooty and superficial (like these MS coms), but everything that Apple says is snooty and superficial! At least MS normally isn't so haughty.
I think the distinction you guys are talking about is rather important. I personally disagree that either OS is just plain "better" in general than the other, but rather that it's about what you need to do and what you just prefer.
But still, the distinction that you make about hardware support is important. There is a trade-off that is made. Apple has traded flexibility for stability, and Windows has traded stability for flexibility (keep in mind also that MS doesn't manufacture hardware that their OS runs on, and their biggest market is enterprise, where hardware varies greatly).
Windows is not a worse OS. Vista isn't a bad piece of software - it was, but no longer is. OSX and Vista are equally heavy. The difference is just that with OSX, you're forced to buy a good computer, whereas some manufacturers allow you to buy Vista with a machine that can't run it.
Now, I'm not saying OSX is a better or worse OS. I don't use it because it doesn't have a variety of software that I like using, and I'm not a fan of dual boot (got everything running the way I like it).
I wouldn't say OSX is just a fly anymore. They've been spending billions on advertisments, and the only reason they don't have a larger marketshare is because they refuse to let their OS onto any other machines. If people could just buy OSX with their own hardware, there would be a lot more.
Oh yeah, and I'd love to have a macbook 15" - but between paying $1500-2000 for something I don't necessarily need, and between $800-1000 for slightly inferior hardware, I'll go for the latter :)
I'm not trying to start the typical mac v pc war, but I have a question. You guys (in the podcast) said you felt maybe osx was easier or more productive/efficient at certain tasks than vista or xp. I was wondering what examples you could give of this. I've been a pc user most of my life but am considering buying a mac book pro. So, what are some of the advantages I might see from osx. I'm sure it depends on personal use and comfort with the os, but I just wondered what you all thought.
I second that. I really am curious what types of things have a better user experience. I used to have a Mac back in like '96 (a Performa 6115cd to be exact) running System 7. That was sort of the dark years for Apple when they really had no software compatibility or user base and were on the brink of going under. I switched to Windows (back then referring to the platform as "Wintel") when Win98 came out and I needed a new computer. I also wanted to be able to run Linux so I needed x86 platform. I cut my teeth on Slackware. I'm also an IT / CS guy so it was just a constant headache to find workarounds to do what I needed to on MacOS at the time, which also included gaming because I was a younger fellow then.
But I digress, fast forward to 2009, and I've been running XP since it came out, so almost NINE YEARS now. And at this point, I just want something DIFFERENT. I'm just bored with the whole user experience. And now that their OS so quite nice, BSD-based, runs on x86 and can dual-boot, virtualize, etc, it seems attractive just simply for something new to play with and learn and just have an all around different computing experience. I played with the Windows 7 beta and it's a nice improvement, but it still feels a bit Vista-like to me, which is not a great thing. And of course there is no doubting that the hardware is quite nice.
Anyway, I'm still looking for some good non-zealot info on being an IT guy and running MacOS as your main OS. Help me out Engadget!
Thank God Josh atleast mentioned the new Acer netbook, I mean seriously, you guys simply ignored it altogether. I was expecting you to talk *a bit* more about it! anyway thanks Josh, your brief "Now these look very attractive to me" statement made me even more serious about getting one!!
Okay I am not an Apple fanboy. If anything I am a Linux fan but I use XP as well. As too why Microsoft fears Apple the answer is simple. They are not totally stupid. They have every right to fear Apple. Apple is make huge in roads. The iPod outsells the Zune by what margin? The iPhone has caught up with and passed Windows Mobile in software base and way surpassed it in mind share how quickly?
And the Mac is selling very well.
That statement that Apple is an ant compaired to Microsoft is just silly. Apples Gross profit last year was over 11 Billion Dollars.
That is correct 11 Billion.
Microsoft's was over 48 Billion which is a lot larger but 11 billion is nothing to sneeze at.
Microsoft has a lot to fear in the growth department. I don't see Windows Mobile market share growing rapidly. RIM's OS, Apple's IPhone, Palm's WebOS, and Google's Android all seem to be taking all the mind share.
Linux is still making headway in Servers, devices, and yes even netbooks. Linux and Nvidias Tegra makes a lot more sense than Windows CE.
But here is the really ugly truth. Apple's PCs are not all that different hardware wise than standard PCs. There is NOTHING that is stopping Apple from bringing out a cheap PC with OSX except they choose not too.
If Apple started to offer a $600 Mac Mini Tower or a $899 17" Mac book how many people would buy them?
What percentage of people would buy a Mac over a Windows PC if there was no price difference?
That is what Microsoft fears, and they should fear it.
After listening to your LSV (low speed vehicle) discussion, I was surprised that none of you brought up the idea of hacking them. If that 25 mph limit is limited by the hardware, maybe there is a way to bump it. If these things could at least do 40 or 45 I'd be in.
On the OSX vs PC discussion I have a HP HDX laptop running both Windows 7, and OSX. I run Windows 99% of the time. I never really thought about it until Josh said it, but the browser has a lot to do with it. I like IE, and Chrome. Safari litterally hurts my eyes after a while. Since I'm usually in a browser it just makes sense that I stay in Windows. Plus I occasionaly play games on it.
I actually prefer the trackpad to be slight to the left as I use my thumb to control the cursor and my fingers rest on the keyboard ready to type. Works for me really well....
I concur. My Dell has the same off-center placement, and I've never really had a problem with it.
You take it as red that Vista sucks and is inferior to OSX.
Please say HOW and WHY. Give use cases other than "I can't be as productive in it" which is personal preference. Personally I bought the hype and tried switching but was soooooo happy when I went back to windows.
Before people complain that I should stop listening to Engadget or commenting on topics I disagree with, I have a couple of things to say. First, I enjoy this podcast and the fact that it is a mix of news and commentary. With that, I also enjoy the fact that Engadget has provided me the opportunity to voice my opinion.
I don't take issue with people having a preference with one OS over another. However, I do take issue with the comments made during the podcast regarding Microsoft essentially beating up on the smaller guy (i.e. Apple). Some of the terms used were 'underdog', 'going to swat away the fly', etc. If you choose to only use specific statistics, such as desktop/laptop OS, yes Microsoft has an extremely (possibly too) large share. However, there are numerous other statistics that could easily tell other stories. For instance, Apple has an approximately $100Bn market cap, and Microsoft has an approximately $170Bn market cap. If I were to use only this statistic, I could argue that Apple is no underdog. What bothers me is the use of a small subset of statistics to tell a specific story. As an data analyst, I'm most bothered by pundits continually using statistics to mold the story one way. I just wish when voicing their opinions they would provide a more balanced use of statistics, regardless of the outcome.
By the way, seriously, these are just advertisements. And the last time I checked, part of the purpose of advertising is to provide a perception of the product (within reason).
who cares both adds suck. Use your os i will use mine.
Topolsky is such an apple fan boy. come on if it woudn't be for microsoft and garden variety OEM's like Dell or HP you would still buy computers like TAM for 10,000USD and most of your readers would not be able to afford a computer.
From the podcast: You think a Blu-ray drive costs $300?
NewEgg has multiple Blu-ray readers for less than $100, making the AspireRevo an awesome HTPC option.