It's a truth that many open-minded observers have known for awhile now: Apple
rules the roost in the portable media player market, and everyone else is just trying to keep up. Sorry, but it's true. So true, in fact, that
SanDisk's own CEO has finally come forward to admit it, recently stating in a
Fortune interview that "you can't out-iPod the iPod." And believe us, such a statement probably wasn't easy for Mr. Eli Harari to make. Remember, this is the same fellow that spent boatloads of dough on an
"iDon't" anti-iPod campaign back in 2006. 'Course, SanDisk is still a (very distant)
second place in the sector, and its flash memory is used in all manners of PMP devices. Still, it's a huge relief to finally hear the mastermind behind
slotMusic confess that he doesn't actually believe such gimmicks will put it on a fast track to first place. Then again,
crazier things have happened.
[Image courtesy of
dnorton]
posted Jun 4th 2009 8:43AM
....But from the recent line up of iPods, especially the shuffle......I think I can out-iPod the iPod.....
using the shuffle as an example really isnt saying much. everybody knows it's a joke. if you can singlehandedly out-ipod the touch, then we'll talk because what mr. harari said is sad but true. so much for competition. :(
Yeah, the Shuffle is a joke to geeks, but if you go to a gym, it's hard to find a person without one. Of course, geeks don't go to the gym so they wouldn't know that.
Ham...have you used the new Shuffle? I absolutely love its simplicity and the controls on the cord are fantastic! If you want to do more "stuff" go for the Nano or Touch but for quick and easy musical enjoyment the Shuffle is pretty nice.
@ a ham sandwich
Well, after the new shuffle I've seen A LOT of Sansa clips at gyms and the streets (and I'm in Mexico...where it hasn't been released officially), not to tell how many more I've seen in NY's subway.
Its a little too late, unless the zune HD packs some substantial wow and can steal the spotlight with its newness. They should have tried earlier in the game. Nowadays everyone has ipod on the brain as the must have player.
Wait a second. Paul a. Chapel high ranked after making a really good comment (for once)?! Is the world coming to an end?!
Dude, I've been high ranked many a time, but the only reason I haven't been high ranked lately is because I had the balls to criticize Microsoft in posts about Microsoft and as we all know, the Microsoft posts (and Apple posts coincidentally) on Engadget are regularly patrolled by the Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde.
Honestly though, comments get read more if they're low ranked. High ranks are the kiss of death.
His statement is merely belaboring the obvious. At least this CEO understands reality. He's not living in a world of denial. SanDisk builds good PMPs and the Sansa Clip is probably better value for your money than the iPod Shuffle. But SanDisk is just going up against something that has become embedded in our culture. SanDisk makes good memory so that's certainly something for the company to be proud of.
It's not so much about the iPod, it's the iPod ecosystem. That ecosystem includes the iTunes player, the iTunes Music Store, The iTunes Video Store, Podcasts, the App Store, iTunes U, iTunes Latino. And then you got about a billion iPod accessories.
I made this argument before, but if you go back and compare the early Mac OS with the Windows 1.0, the Mac OS blew Windows out of the water, but Microsoft had the better ecosystem. A lot of businesses had standardized on DOS because of IBM. Windows ran on top of DOS, so it won out, even though it was an inferior product. That's how it goes in business.
I think all the Sanza and Zune people need to go back and watch Pirates of Silicon Valley. Remember this scene?
Steve Jobs: We're better than you. We have better stuff.
Bill Gates. You still don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter.
I guess Steve Jobs had learned this lesson well when he finally got back to Apple.
The gym I go to is pretty much 50/50 Sansa clips and Shuffles although they tend to be the older generation Shuffles not the new one.
Everyone other iPod variant rules the roost though and by a massive margin.
Paul your time to shine is now up!
@Paul
I don't think the quality of the products have to do with anything. Remember the Motorola RAZR? It wasn't as great as it was set up to be, it crashed often. But everyone had one and I still have mine.
Same with the iPod, there are products better than the Nano, or Classic, but the iPod/Apple brand itself has become a staple in pop culture much like Jeans or Nikes.
If anything, to out-iPod the iPod is not so much building a better product, but building a better brand/brand awareness.
Apple knows this, and thats why we have Mac vs PC ads, and huge iPod posters but we don't really get the "It has 16GB or SPACE!" or can "Listen to Internet Radio". Its not so much the tech specs, its the brand.
And something like a brand is hard to beat, at the very least all you can do is promote your brand. Examples of this outside of tech would be Nike vs Adidas and Levi's vs Lee.
Well, at least the Apple fanboi horde doesn't rub their victory in faces of the defeated (read: SanDisk CEO, not the rest of us).
I tend to agree, but i have to say that Zune is a respectable competitor.
If the iPod has no competition it's the user loss. We need other companies at least trying or we'll see little effort of the Apple.
let Microsoft first drop that thing overseas than we'll talk further about the Zune, never held that thing or played with it which is a real shame and make Europeans flock to the iPod. No real competition...
I don't think the article claims to say that the iPod has no competition. I think what it's trying to say is that there are iPod competitors but the competition's ability to market their products and public's perceived value of said products frankly SUCKS BIG BALLS!
One of my favorite events in technology was when Microsoft announced the 2nd gen Zune. Here's how it all went down:
Zune 2 shots leaked on the Web.
Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: "ZUUUNNNE!!! iPod sucks! Apple sucks! Suck it Apple fanboys! ZUUUNNNE!!!"
Apple announces iPod touch.
Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: .....
Microsoft announces Zune 2.
Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: *whimper*
Hey, chins up guys, you always have that Windows/Office monopoly to celebrate! And your gaming consoles! The Xbox 360 is a fantasti*RROD*.
i'd love to agree but i have never seen or touched one. Stupid not releasing it outside of the US
While what you said is really funny, Quix, it was actually more like this..
Zune 2 shots leaked on the Web.
Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: "ZUUUNNNE!!! iPod sucks! Apple sucks! Suck it Apple fanboys! ZUUUNNNE!!!"
Apple announces iPod touch.
Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: Uh, uh, well the Zune is better than the iPOD CLASSIC. Who the hell wants a touch screen anyway. And it has a freaking radio. A freaking radio!
*crickets chirping*
Zune HD shots leaked on the Web.
Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: F*ck YEAH!! The ZuneHD has a FREAKING TOUCH SCREEN! YEAH! Suck on that, Apple Fanboys!
I hate to say it...but Paul is actually right. HOLY SHIT THE APOCALYPSE IS UPON US!!!
To be fair, I usually recommend Sandisk/Sansa players for poeple who cant a cheap, easy to use mp3 player. I used to run with a Sandisk Sansa before I switched to the touch.
My apologies, I mis-typed: I meant "Who want" and not "Who cant."
Again, my apologies asI cant seem to edit my post. :(
I can't seem to either.
Shocking, indeed!
I don't think Sandisk have even try: I purchased their mp3 player 1 year ago the e250. First of all, no podcast. I figure, for $25, it's okay. I installed myPodder for podcast and sync. Damn, it can't display Chinese, they are all displayed as garbages (Note, their menus supports multiple languages).
I don't know what sandisk are thinking, but if they can't get the basics right, don't dare saying that iPod is unbeatable. It's like a student not doing his homework claiming the test is too hard to pass.
But... but... the MS Fanboys assured me that the Zune was in second place.
That's from 2006.
Even though it's true, I take it back. I shouldn't feed you.
Nah, the Zune has never been number 2. I think if was briefly number 3, passing Creative at some point. Last I heard, Apple had 71 percent, Sandisk had 11 percent, Microsoft had 4 percent and Creative had 2 percent of the MP3 player market. But like I said, I think Creative and Microsoft switched places again at some point as the recession got worse, but don't quote me on that.
relax Paul a. no one has ever quoted you and it's not gonna start today.
Actually, I have been quoted. Read it and weep, hater.
http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2009/01/14/apple-jobs-and-health-a-reuters-roundup/
Here's the quote for people too lazy to click the link.
"And finally, a Paul Chapel commenting on the Engadget blog about Jobs’s importance to the world:
Get well, Steve, and thank you for the MacBook Pro I got over Christmas. That thing has helped me meet more girls at Starbucks than what would have been possible otherwise. Look forward to seeing what you have prepared for us in June."
—Robert MacMillan, Reuters.
I...don't know if that's sad or funny. :-/
I think it's funny because I got quoted in the same context as the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Silicon Valley Insider, and Gizmodo. I'm sure all the google stalking Paul Chapel haters assploded when they found that quote.
I happened to read it while casually clicking through stock links on Yahoo Finance.
The Zune fanboys, powered by MS, kept touting a #2 position (when it happened a while back) but deliberately failed to mention that it was only for hard-disk based players.
Now that I think about it, it's not weird. Most journalists are mactards so they don't really think twice about commenters like you.
I've never understood the fascination with the ipod. Please please don't take this as flaming, anti-fanboyism, etc. I've had a couple and used them, and just don't get it. They work fine, they don't do anything special, but they are quite expensive compared to the competition. I've also had the sandisk 'sansa' mp3 player, a couple of cheapy chinese players, an mp3 CD player way back when; and they've all been fine to use, and all had their stupid/annoying issues too.
Honestly I am curious why people like the ipod so much, or is it just because it's "the one to have"? I've never found a reason why it's a better music-playing-device than another.
The iPod was better because it actually had a system for buying music. While all the other MP3 players wanted you to pay a subscription to listen to music, Apple didn't. Price isn't always the final word on a product. People are more willing to pay for music and music systems than they are for something like a PC for instance, which explains why some people had huge CD libraries back in the day.
Yes, it is "the one". Apple ads make them seem so cool, that's all.
Their sound quality is pretty crap compared to Sony's players.
I don't think the iPod is so popular strictly due to the ability to purchase music through itunes (of course, this does help). Personally I think it all boils down to it's ease of use. Several members of my family use an iPod nano flawlessly but let them try to navigate my Sony player...different story entirely!
@superhobo
so go by a sony and shut up .. sony sound quality is not any better or any worse
@----:
lolwut? Ever compared them? Ever even used one?
yeah, i think it's popular for a few reasons...while it wasn't technically first to market, it was perceived by millions as that, it was just the "first" and most familiar as far as the public was concerned. they advertise a lot more than the competitors do, and have a long standing and familiar product line in their computers. itunes helped out a lot with the method of buying music, and a huge teen audience adapted it as the "cool" player. once people became familiar with it, most probably just never changed. then the touch and iphone came out and the app store blew up, so there is really nothing that can compete with that currently - i'd like to see how the zune hd measures up
Thats the thing, there is nothing overly special about ipods. They just do what they do really well.
Sony, Creative, iRiver pump out player after player in the hopes that one the public will like one of them, Apple have 1 player and refine it, any problems are ironed out, the interface stays the same, its just a good all round product.
I have had Creative in the past, they just try to do too much and end up being a horrible to use feature packed piece of crap.
I always thought Creative was in 2nd place? I used to be a Creative Fanboy until the Touch came out. Ever since then, it just seems that Creative has just fallen harder and harder
i agree my first mp3 player was the first gen nano and then i got a zune when i t came out .i had to go throut 7 zune they keep breaking after 3 months yes thank god i had a replacment plan for 2 years ..after my last zune broke i got an ipod touch and is one of the best gadget i have am not an applefanboy but i admit my ipod touch is the shit i would never change it for another mp3 player
Your opinion doesn't matter because we can't take you seriously. Learn some grammar and punctuation if you want to share something with the world.
@telepheedian
Stop being a prick.
@telepheedian
at least his comment is related to the story ... you say "we can't take you seriously" .. please speak for yourself and not for others .. have a nice day
your an asshole is my opinion and i dont give a fuck what you think smartass
All I get from your post is....
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah zune...blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Yes your grammar and lack of punctuation is awful. That's ok though, I don't think you need that to work at mcdonalds.
Well, I have 2 Zunes and a Sansa clip. All work just fine. Never had a problem.
See how easy that is.
I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass.
LMAO...the anti apple haters will LOVE this one.
iPods rock. That's all there is to it. You can scream all you want about "Zune HD", Sansa Fuze, sony walkman, or samsung w/e's but they all pale in comparison to the various iPods.
"Anti-Apple Haters" has officially been replaced by the "Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde." I forget who coined the term. I think it was Quix.
Tell me why they rock. I'm asking honestly. As I commented above, I've owned various portable-music-playing-devices over the years, some of which were ipods, and they didn't do a better job playing music than any of the other ones, some of which were much cheaper chinese players. To me, they just seem more expensive because of the name, they'll play the same mp3s my $20 cheapy ones will, or even the same mp3s my homemade player will (not very portable, just for fun). Why do you say they rock?
Isn't anti-Apple hater a double negative? Meaning one who hates anti-Apple?
Not everybody who has a minor problem with something Apple does is a "Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde." I know it's hard for you to understand but the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. Most of the world doesn't blindly follow a multinational capatilistic corporation. People aren't choosing sides...You are the one who's sorting people into sides that those people have never even considered.
You don't get downranked because you like Apple...you get downranked because you're a douche.
There is no "Vast Microsoft Conspiracy". There is only you. You and your deluded beliefs that sane human beings actuallly choose sides when it comes to a money hungry company.
insky, you are just not paying attention to the comments here, are you? You think it's only the people who like Apple that are douches? Seriously? "People are not choosing sides" MY ASS. Spend some more time here and PAY ATTENTION, and you'll see why you're completely wrong.
@J
Well, they have their faults, to be sure, but here's the general consensus on why "they rock"
1. iTunes. Love it or hate it, there is no easier way to get music on and off a player. Step 1, plug it in. Step 2, there is no step 2.
2. Hardware ecosystem. Except the Shuffle, which has limited appeal, mostly to athletes, every iPod made in the last 5 years has the same 30 pin connector at the bottom. There has been one change to the charging pin when Apple dumped firewire support, but other than that, every iPod (and to a limited extent iPhone) can use the same speakers, docks, cables, FM transmitters, and accessories.
3. Slow progression. When iPod started, it was firewire only, Mac only. No one bought these things. But it gave Apple a chance to work out the kinks. Then they released a Windows compatible USB version, and it exploded. A year later, they made iTunes for Windows. It was all over then.
4. Consistency. My brand new 160GB iPod classic works the same as my mom's 1st gen iPod Nano. She can pick up my iPod and use it just like she uses hers. It's a little different, and the newer ones have more options, but it's essentially the same.
5. Library based organization. Some players (iRiver, some Sandisk, WinMo and Palm...) use folder based organization. This is 30 year old technology. The library is the way to go, able to organize by whatever you want... artist, genre, keyword, even how many times you've skipped the song. Store your music in folders, but don't interact with it that way
6. Finally, iTunes Store. There really is no better way to buy TV shows, Movies, Music, get podcasts and audio books, and Apps. There are cheaper ways, there are prettier ways, and there are more intuitive ways, but there is no one application out there that will do all of the above, and ad one-click (or no click) syncing to a device.
I'm an iPod fan (since day one) but I'm kinda sad to hear someone as big as them throw in the towel...
I read the comment (note: out of context because I did not hear the entire speech) as having a different meaning than what everyone else is saying. I think what the Sansa CEO was getting at was that they were not going to beat Apple (in sales) by making a similar product without features that truly differentiate it. Although I personally prefer my Walkman (because I am a slight bit fanatical when it comes to sound quality), for the average user, there is not real difference between the mp3 players on market. What this means, is that people will get one of the most supported mp3 players when it comes to add ons (cases, speaker systems, etc..) along with one that is beautifully designed.
With all of that in mind, I feel that the Sansa CEO understands this, and is possibly working on making an innovative product, one that redefines the market, as opposed to one that is similar with slightly different features. I could be completely wrong, but hopefully I am correct, leading to more competition, and hopefully a new way of looking at personal media players.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't understand what this post is about. Apple has huge market share. A competitor admits the obvious. I recognize that admitting defeat is not a good idea, but as mentioned above, it's pretty well known how popular Apple's products are. So... ?
It's called stirring the pot because it's a slow news day and I gotta put some sorta crap out there or I'll lose my job.
every product has a beginning and end. i think that the ipod is starting to be near that end, or at some declining stage. iphones and pre's will take over mp3 markets soon enough
Why? I don't think the iPod line will go away at all.
I own several smartphones and MP3 players including an iPhone, and I just bought a new Shuffle (previous generation) because I wanted something small, light weight and unimportant to keep in my jacket (at all times).
I use both but for different activities.
i meant in the future with the ipod classic/touch, perhaps 5 years time. i wouldn't get an ipod touch or classic today, when an iphone is just the same in music player or the pre can play music. 5 years time iphones probably support up to 150gb of space. 10 years time we'd probably see just one gadget suitable for a music player, video player, phone and even PnS camera.
the shuffle has a different market, really only to sports activities or just a light and cheap mp3 player - thats a small market compared to mp3 storage player
Don't give up, SanDisk!!! I know you can't become number one but imagine what will the world be if nobody tried!!!
iPods are great... but this is not a good thing to hear from the second place mp3 manufacturer. Actually, it's a TERRIBLE thing to hear from any tech company.
Without competition, Microsoft drove their OS into the ground. Only after Apple turned up the heat did Microsoft get their butts back in gear and build a satisfactory OS. (See: October 22nd) That didn't happen with their Office products because they've always had fierce competition. Microsoft knew a half-assed productivity suite would drive their customers to Lotus, Corel, or *gasp* an open source alternative.
This SanDisk CEO should keep a firing burning under his engineers... at least Microsoft is trying to make a MP3 players better.
I'm just saying, pressure makes diamonds.
The only thing is that Apple never stopped innovating. There was nothing like the iPod touch when it hit the market and there still isn't. The Zune HD is going to make a difference either. It still does not have a lot of the features the touch has (email, google maps, app store, calendar, contacts).
Microsoft never was a company that innovated. They take from others and sometimes makes it better and other times worse. The one truly innovative product they had was Office and they've taken it as far as it can go.
Really? You can't out ipod and ipod...Sorry but I'll take my expandable memory having Sansa Fuze that I don't have to worry about DRM junk with (or paying extra for files without it). Don't have to worry about proprietary software or connections for charging and up/downloading. It's small in size and I don't have to worry about people snatch and grabbing it (as much since some people steal just to steal).
8GB Flash based Sansa Fuze...$85
16GB Micro SDHC...$45
24GB total... $130
versus...
8GB iPod nano...$150
16GB iPod nano...$200
16GB iPod Touch...$275
32GB iPod Touch...$385
Yeah, the Touch does more stuff, but it's the size of a smartphone (great if you have an iPhone and all, but we are talking about just music devices), not expandable, etc. I also didn't bring up iPod classics either...again the size of a smartphone.
Some people like the Apple brand, the iPod name, etc. and that's great. I will give Apple credit for revolutionizing digital music and such and making it easier to get into people's homes of all ages, but there is more out there for a better price, a better profile and just as easy to use (since when did drag and drop become difficult?).
All in all, buy what you like, what you can afford and what makes your happy by filling your needs. I just wish people would look outside of what high profile companies (and people) say and do some research of their own.
"I don't have to worry about DRM junk with (or paying extra for files without it)"
Wrong. iTunes Plus anyone?
"I don't have to worry about people snatch and grabbing it"
Really? Does it really look THAT ugly that nobody will steal it?
"Don't have to worry about proprietary software or connections"
I think the Sansa uses a proprietary connector too
"Yeah, the Touch does more stuff, but it's the size of a smartphone"
I think, based on the popularity.. nobody cares about it's current size.
By the way, the screen takes up pretty much 80% of the screen, so it's impossible to make that smaller.
But pricing wise, iPods are way more expensive, yes.
Oh, by the way.. speaking about the iPod touch: It can play games, has Nike+, wifi, App Store, blah blah. Usual ad lines. Although maybe that does give it that extra value to justify the higher price? To you, maybe not, but to others who use it for many other things, yes
They did good with the Clip. Best value for your money. I recently got a 2 gb one from woot for 20 bucks for running/gym.
I still use my e280 quite a bit as well, with Rockbox it is an extremely solid pmp.
Umm, I have a 160Gb iPod classic that plays 18k MP3s without issue or complaint. You can't outdo this cheaply, efficiently, or even qualitatively. It's a design marvel.
I wouldn't even focus on the iPod so much as the iTunes s/w. There's a great deal of 3rd party potential in doing *that* better, as anyone who has tried (on a Windows PC) to get new songs to just show up can attest to. Also, I find the 3rd party firmware hacks to be immensely interesting, something that also has innovation potential.
--#
He's not throwing in the towel, he's saying he isn't trying to make an iPod. He's trying to make a competent mp3/media player. iPod touches are now iPhones without the phone. They run apps, play games, browse the web, etc. He's pretty much saying he isn't interested in making a device that does this.
I have had 4 iPods, and now use a Sansa Clip 4gb... because all I want to do is listen to audiobooks/music. I don't wanna browse the web, I don't want to play games, I don't want to run applications on it. I want it to be small, light, have great battery (i'm at 15 hours of listening on this charge and its still at about 70%), and be easy to get audio files on and off of. The iPod is none of those things. The shuffle is small and light but is not easy to get stuff onto and off of, the nano is big for what i want, and not easy to get stuff on and off of, and the touches are large, semi-fragile, battery life is in the order of 8-10 hours because of the gigantic screen, and its still not easy to get data onto and off of. Why must I use iTunes? I merely want to drag and drop...
I don't know what you mean about the touch. It is re size of a smartphone because it almost is. You can download skype and use it as a wifi smartphone. The battery life on the touch has 25 hours of listening to music, 7 hours of video, 5 hours of browsing. That is a smartphone level of battery life. Also it's not hard to use iTunes. That's why so many people use it. All you have to do is drag whichever son you want into your iPod folder and check a box next to which applications you want. If you think the touch is fragile, then you must think that all touchscreens are fragile. I've had my touch for a year and not so much as a scratch.
Well, sansa clip > ipod shuffle, at least.
It's simple why iPods can't be touched...to paraphrase James Carville "it's iTunes stupid". For all of us non-degenerates who choose to buy albums online iTunes has become the digital place to buy albums. I can get all my underground rap and rock for $7.99 an album, but that low price comes at the expense of having to buy a proprietary player. If I listened to Katy Perry or some other vanilla shite I'd use Amazon and have the freedom to by a potentially good or potentially crappy player that I've never heard of. Simply put, try to find a store that sells a Big Oomp CD, it ain't gonna happen. While laying in bed I can dl it, support the artist by purchasing it, upload it to my phone, and have music to listen to while slaving away in my cubicle. All of that ease has still yet to be replicated by another company.
iTunes does mean a lot to people who want an easy way to buy music, especially for such a large music store. However for people who care about sound quality, iTunes is far from an alternative (128kbps is not acceptable). Along with that, a better way to support an artist is to actually see them in concert. Even high level artist only receive $1 per album (this is why Trent Reznor sells his own records online). I think you pointed out a more important point, most people do not care how their music sounds, and are willing to make major trade offs just so they can obtain it easily.
well... depend, for example for high end mp3 portable music in USA, then Ipod is the king, but for normal mp3 player ipod is just one more from thousand of brand (specially those pendrive mp3)
After all, for mp3 portable music, there are more brand that Apple, Sony, Sandisk, Microsoft and Iriver.
Personally i am start hating some statitics where show victorious a "x" company but the trick is to blend/filter the information until the "x" company show over the competitor. Or you could say, its cheating (for example to showing that iphone is the most popular cellphone).
Samsung P2/P3???
I find that to out iPod the iPod.
Not anymore since the Touch has wifi and a web browser...
See that Apple they make a average PMP, add Wifi and $120 to the price and then wait till engadget convinced us that wifi is a must on a pmp.
If you follow this kind of judgment then the N97 is much better than the iPod, it has 3G+ ! (and 32Go of flash oh and you can actually choose the media player you want to use).
And I never got that. If you have a MP3 player, don't you have a phone? And alot of folks (as stupid as it may be) has a Touh AND iPhone =/
I never did get the point of having all that on your MP3 player.
Minus the Web Browser and WiFi (which my PHONE AND LAPTOP HAS)
I still would choose a 32GB P3 over Touch ANY DAY
Can Touch even playback Divx and Xvid yet??
Also add the Cowon S9 up there with the P3. I just got mine and it's great, plus AMOLED screen and XVid. I like my players to have great sound quality. Music is #1. I'll have my Palm Pre for everything else :)
On the other hand, my gf doesn't care about sound quality and specs. She wants music while she goes to the gym, so I got her a Nano.
Right...I hold a MP3 player in regards to...hold on, wait for it...
It's MP3 capabilities o_O
I know, shocking rght!
iPod doesn't even support as many codecs as some competitors.
Regardless of what few say, people still do listen to the radio (sport fans anyone)
And the audio quality does not begin to compare with Samsung's DnSE...
Sansa e200 series adopted the 4th gen iPod nano
form factor and layout long before apple did
(what the heck was that fatty about? was Ives on vacation?)
I absolutely LOVE having a microSD slot in my player.
Being able to record audio has been very useful
(FM reception not so hot, however).
Add accelerometers and I'd be real happy.
Apple may sell more units, but Sandisk made a better player sooner.
I have no idea what crack sandisk was smoking when they persued the slotplayer stuff however.
I get the impression that the 4th gen iPod nano was a screen stretched 2nd gen one?
As for the fat nano.. I think he was trying to inspire Steve to keep away from the pizzas, else he look like the Fatty.
I have several iPods and my touch is certainly my airplane companion. However Apple misses the boat for me in the small music player department. While at the gym I listen to music mostly, but sometimes I want to watch the game that is on and for that I need an FM tuner. After trying several I have setteld on my Sony E438 if you can believe it. FM tuner is great, battery life is a ridiculously long 50 hours, and the interface is just as easy as the ipod.
You should hit up P2 or the slightly newer P3
The very reason why you can't out-ipod the ipod is because it's an ipod, and by this I mean it's Nothing else. It's not a real audio player, because it lacks compatibility over so many codecs, it's not really a PMP, because it cannot play 720p over a TV for instance, it's not really a gaming device, because it lacks good games....
What's more the iPod is not only a plastic box in which you can put mp3, it's a fashionable item on his own. Have you ever heard any of your non-engadget-connected friends talking about any mp3 but an iPod.
You get your cowon/sony/whatever out of your pocket :
"oh new iPod ?
-errrr ....no. disapointed?"
-well yes a bit.
Because it has been so well advertised and marketed, Apple succeeded in convincing us that having an iPod, and having another mp3 is not the same.
The itouch for exemple is a very lame PMP, but then why the heck is it so successful ?
Because it is NOT a PMP. it's a pmp + a web browser + games that 12 years old love + ifart.
How on earth could you compete with a company that made iFart cool ?
I've seen no companies offering a equivalent of the itunes+ipod package, clearly all those who tried to impose a proprietary crapware to manage our music failed (except Apple ofc).
What is a much bigger concern for competition : NONE of these companies actually invested in making existing music management software supported by their devices like amaroK, Winamp, WMP, ..
It is actually much harder for a noob to use a sansa clip + whatever he wants then to use a ipod nano + itunes.
(at least if you want MTP)
What? are they morons ? Yes they are because quite frankly I don't see what's so hard in making one library of IDtag compatible with another...
especially when the first on the 2 is open source.
Get your fucking fingers out of your ass !
The disappointing thing about all this is that the iPod software isn't very good. It doesn't have many options, and it does some really obnoxious stuff that makes playlist listening almost intolerable for me. The hardware is top notch, and that's why it's almost the only option right now. I was very sad that Creative stopped making large capacity PMPs, because their software was great. They just couldn't keep up in the hardware department.
Correction. HE can't out-iPod the iPod. iPods and Sansas have different places in the market, the pricing (and amount of polish) are both lower than the iPod. The Sansa is the budget winner, and the iPod is the (current) leader for people who are willing to pay more for a complete, integrated solution. The Zune is priced similarly to the iPod because it tries at the same thing. The extra money goes to Marketing and R&D, which is why the Zune and iPod have their own, nicely polished, software suites for managing them, as well as their own stores. The extra money also goes to interface design and the processing power to handle it. The UI on a Sansa pales in comparison to the UI on a Zune or iPod, and a lot of that has to do with processing power, but also the amount of effort put into the layout of things.
Basically, to out-iPod the iPod, you have to compete directly with the entire iPod experience, and I don't really see anybody doing that except Microsoft, personally, I think they have done it, but it's still subjective. You can't just make a player that's decent at audio playback and expect it to outdo the competitors on price and audio quality alone, there's a lot more to it.
I agree, this is ridiculous,the Nano is like twice the price of the fuze..
I don't see where the competition is.
Not to mention the Touch.
While I dothink the Touch adds value over most pmp's available (not because of music features, but because of internet and app capabilities; for example my wife uses it at the hospital she works at for medical reference apps), I don't see anything the Nano / Shuffle adds over the Fuze / Clip, especially for the price differential. I consider the touch more of a PDA that plays music than the other way around... especially since it is too big for running etc...
As far as iTunes, there are plenty of free programs (Winamp, Media Monkey, etc.) that allow easy file organization and syncing with a non-Apple pmp.
I too don't get why iPods are the #1 device.. first off everything you get is DRM'ed to heck.. I bought an MP3 off of itunes for the intent to use in a slideshow for my grandfathers funeral and spent a good hour trying to find a program that would let me kill the DRM so that I could add it to my nero slideshow. And as far as video goes.. it doesn't support anything beyond the apple codecs. Give me Xvid and divx the format used by 90% of torrented tv shows and dvd ripers and now I'm sold.. Thats why I love my creative zen W. My biggest complaint about the zen W is that its a brick but at least it supports all the video formats I use. And from what I understand Archos is even better then the Zen so I don't know why it doesn't even rank in the top 5.
flac = apple lossless... quality wise I own a Sansa fuze 4 GB ... and I use ipod headphones.... the problem with Ipod is you have to stick to itunes or any management program to transfer ... in case of fuze its so easy....
I think other media player & phone manufactures are Stupid & are missing a MASSIVE opportunity why dont they put there connections on the bottom of there devices & manufacture an adapter to connect to the hundreds of “designed for IPOD” speakers/docking hardware.
Why do some people buy IPods because of the hundreds of speaker & car docks.
Is the 30 pin connector patented???
Oh, god yes it is.
While I own an iPod touch, I admit, I'm a Zune fan. I want Zune Pass. I want to legally download songs directly to my player without needing to spend $1.29 for a new song. iTunes 8 is horrible on Windows. I haven't synced my iPod touch in a very long time. The touch has it's added value for being a nice PDA, but what happens when I pick up a Pre this Saturday?
Funny thing is "Walkman" used to be what ipod is now. How did Sony blow it? History shows there is ALWAYS a successor. It's evolution baby.