SanDisk CEO concedes: "You can't out-iPod the iPod"

It's a truth that many open-minded observers have known for awhile now: Apple rules the roost in the portable media player market, and everyone else is just trying to keep up. Sorry, but it's true. So true, in fact, that SanDisk's own CEO has finally come forward to admit it, recently stating in a Fortune interview that "you can't out-iPod the iPod." And believe us, such a statement probably wasn't easy for Mr. Eli Harari to make. Remember, this is the same fellow that spent boatloads of dough on an "iDon't" anti-iPod campaign back in 2006. 'Course, SanDisk is still a (very distant) second place in the sector, and its flash memory is used in all manners of PMP devices. Still, it's a huge relief to finally hear the mastermind behind slotMusic confess that he doesn't actually believe such gimmicks will put it on a fast track to first place. Then again, crazier things have happened.

[Image courtesy of dnorton]

[FT @ Jun 4th 2009 8:50AM]

....But from the recent line up of iPods, especially the shuffle......I think I can out-iPod the iPod.....

[a ham sandwich @ Jun 4th 2009 8:54AM]

using the shuffle as an example really isnt saying much. everybody knows it's a joke. if you can singlehandedly out-ipod the touch, then we'll talk because what mr. harari said is sad but true. so much for competition. :(

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 9:02AM]

Yeah, the Shuffle is a joke to geeks, but if you go to a gym, it's hard to find a person without one. Of course, geeks don't go to the gym so they wouldn't know that.

[Cheddar @ Jun 4th 2009 9:42AM]

Ham...have you used the new Shuffle? I absolutely love its simplicity and the controls on the cord are fantastic! If you want to do more "stuff" go for the Nano or Touch but for quick and easy musical enjoyment the Shuffle is pretty nice.

[ark_v2 @ Jun 4th 2009 9:45AM]

@ a ham sandwich

Well, after the new shuffle I've seen A LOT of Sansa clips at gyms and the streets (and I'm in Mexico...where it hasn't been released officially), not to tell how many more I've seen in NY's subway.

[OneLove @ Jun 4th 2009 10:22AM]

Its a little too late, unless the zune HD packs some substantial wow and can steal the spotlight with its newness. They should have tried earlier in the game. Nowadays everyone has ipod on the brain as the must have player.

[Patriks7 @ Jun 4th 2009 11:19AM]

Wait a second. Paul a. Chapel high ranked after making a really good comment (for once)?! Is the world coming to an end?!

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 11:23AM]

Dude, I've been high ranked many a time, but the only reason I haven't been high ranked lately is because I had the balls to criticize Microsoft in posts about Microsoft and as we all know, the Microsoft posts (and Apple posts coincidentally) on Engadget are regularly patrolled by the Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde.

Honestly though, comments get read more if they're low ranked. High ranks are the kiss of death.

[iphonerulez @ Jun 4th 2009 11:30AM]

His statement is merely belaboring the obvious. At least this CEO understands reality. He's not living in a world of denial. SanDisk builds good PMPs and the Sansa Clip is probably better value for your money than the iPod Shuffle. But SanDisk is just going up against something that has become embedded in our culture. SanDisk makes good memory so that's certainly something for the company to be proud of.

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 11:38AM]

It's not so much about the iPod, it's the iPod ecosystem. That ecosystem includes the iTunes player, the iTunes Music Store, The iTunes Video Store, Podcasts, the App Store, iTunes U, iTunes Latino. And then you got about a billion iPod accessories.

I made this argument before, but if you go back and compare the early Mac OS with the Windows 1.0, the Mac OS blew Windows out of the water, but Microsoft had the better ecosystem. A lot of businesses had standardized on DOS because of IBM. Windows ran on top of DOS, so it won out, even though it was an inferior product. That's how it goes in business.

I think all the Sanza and Zune people need to go back and watch Pirates of Silicon Valley. Remember this scene?


Steve Jobs: We're better than you. We have better stuff.

Bill Gates. You still don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter.


I guess Steve Jobs had learned this lesson well when he finally got back to Apple.

[Mark Anderson @ Jun 4th 2009 11:56AM]

The gym I go to is pretty much 50/50 Sansa clips and Shuffles although they tend to be the older generation Shuffles not the new one.

Everyone other iPod variant rules the roost though and by a massive margin.

[alan hsiao @ Jun 4th 2009 1:16PM]

Paul your time to shine is now up!

[KillaChaos @ Jun 4th 2009 3:30PM]

@Paul

I don't think the quality of the products have to do with anything. Remember the Motorola RAZR? It wasn't as great as it was set up to be, it crashed often. But everyone had one and I still have mine.

Same with the iPod, there are products better than the Nano, or Classic, but the iPod/Apple brand itself has become a staple in pop culture much like Jeans or Nikes.

If anything, to out-iPod the iPod is not so much building a better product, but building a better brand/brand awareness.

Apple knows this, and thats why we have Mac vs PC ads, and huge iPod posters but we don't really get the "It has 16GB or SPACE!" or can "Listen to Internet Radio". Its not so much the tech specs, its the brand.

And something like a brand is hard to beat, at the very least all you can do is promote your brand. Examples of this outside of tech would be Nike vs Adidas and Levi's vs Lee.

[wickedpheonix @ Jun 4th 2009 10:37PM]

Well, at least the Apple fanboi horde doesn't rub their victory in faces of the defeated (read: SanDisk CEO, not the rest of us).

[Sea Urchin @ Jun 4th 2009 8:51AM]

I tend to agree, but i have to say that Zune is a respectable competitor.

[axemt @ Jun 4th 2009 8:55AM]

If the iPod has no competition it's the user loss. We need other companies at least trying or we'll see little effort of the Apple.

[M. @ Jun 4th 2009 9:00AM]

let Microsoft first drop that thing overseas than we'll talk further about the Zune, never held that thing or played with it which is a real shame and make Europeans flock to the iPod. No real competition...

[Mark @ Jun 4th 2009 9:56AM]

I don't think the article claims to say that the iPod has no competition. I think what it's trying to say is that there are iPod competitors but the competition's ability to market their products and public's perceived value of said products frankly SUCKS BIG BALLS!

[Quix @ Jun 4th 2009 11:44AM]

One of my favorite events in technology was when Microsoft announced the 2nd gen Zune. Here's how it all went down:

Zune 2 shots leaked on the Web.

Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: "ZUUUNNNE!!! iPod sucks! Apple sucks! Suck it Apple fanboys! ZUUUNNNE!!!"

Apple announces iPod touch.

Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: .....

Microsoft announces Zune 2.

Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: *whimper*

Hey, chins up guys, you always have that Windows/Office monopoly to celebrate! And your gaming consoles! The Xbox 360 is a fantasti*RROD*.

[GingerFox @ Jun 4th 2009 11:53AM]

i'd love to agree but i have never seen or touched one. Stupid not releasing it outside of the US

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 11:54AM]

While what you said is really funny, Quix, it was actually more like this..

Zune 2 shots leaked on the Web.

Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: "ZUUUNNNE!!! iPod sucks! Apple sucks! Suck it Apple fanboys! ZUUUNNNE!!!"

Apple announces iPod touch.

Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: Uh, uh, well the Zune is better than the iPOD CLASSIC. Who the hell wants a touch screen anyway. And it has a freaking radio. A freaking radio!


*crickets chirping*


Zune HD shots leaked on the Web.


Microsoft-Slobbering Engadget Commenter Horde: F*ck YEAH!! The ZuneHD has a FREAKING TOUCH SCREEN! YEAH! Suck on that, Apple Fanboys!

[Eddie.exe @ Jun 4th 2009 6:40PM]

I hate to say it...but Paul is actually right. HOLY SHIT THE APOCALYPSE IS UPON US!!!

[JohnnyRico @ Jun 4th 2009 8:55AM]

To be fair, I usually recommend Sandisk/Sansa players for poeple who cant a cheap, easy to use mp3 player. I used to run with a Sandisk Sansa before I switched to the touch.

[JohnnyRico @ Jun 4th 2009 8:56AM]

My apologies, I mis-typed: I meant "Who want" and not "Who cant."

Again, my apologies asI cant seem to edit my post. :(

[superhobo @ Jun 4th 2009 9:13AM]

I can't seem to either.

Shocking, indeed!

[ET @ Jun 4th 2009 12:21PM]

I don't think Sandisk have even try: I purchased their mp3 player 1 year ago the e250. First of all, no podcast. I figure, for $25, it's okay. I installed myPodder for podcast and sync. Damn, it can't display Chinese, they are all displayed as garbages (Note, their menus supports multiple languages).

I don't know what sandisk are thinking, but if they can't get the basics right, don't dare saying that iPod is unbeatable. It's like a student not doing his homework claiming the test is too hard to pass.

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 8:58AM]

But... but... the MS Fanboys assured me that the Zune was in second place.

[superhobo @ Jun 4th 2009 9:05AM]

That's from 2006.

[superhobo @ Jun 4th 2009 9:07AM]

Even though it's true, I take it back. I shouldn't feed you.

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 9:17AM]

Nah, the Zune has never been number 2. I think if was briefly number 3, passing Creative at some point. Last I heard, Apple had 71 percent, Sandisk had 11 percent, Microsoft had 4 percent and Creative had 2 percent of the MP3 player market. But like I said, I think Creative and Microsoft switched places again at some point as the recession got worse, but don't quote me on that.

[Félix @ Jun 4th 2009 10:20AM]

relax Paul a. no one has ever quoted you and it's not gonna start today.

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 11:01AM]

Actually, I have been quoted. Read it and weep, hater.

http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2009/01/14/apple-jobs-and-health-a-reuters-roundup/

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 11:04AM]

Here's the quote for people too lazy to click the link.


"And finally, a Paul Chapel commenting on the Engadget blog about Jobs’s importance to the world:

Get well, Steve, and thank you for the MacBook Pro I got over Christmas. That thing has helped me meet more girls at Starbucks than what would have been possible otherwise. Look forward to seeing what you have prepared for us in June."

—Robert MacMillan, Reuters.

[superhobo @ Jun 4th 2009 11:13AM]

I...don't know if that's sad or funny. :-/

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 11:19AM]

I think it's funny because I got quoted in the same context as the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Silicon Valley Insider, and Gizmodo. I'm sure all the google stalking Paul Chapel haters assploded when they found that quote.

I happened to read it while casually clicking through stock links on Yahoo Finance.

[Bloobie @ Jun 4th 2009 12:20PM]

The Zune fanboys, powered by MS, kept touting a #2 position (when it happened a while back) but deliberately failed to mention that it was only for hard-disk based players.

[superhobo @ Jun 5th 2009 9:14AM]

Now that I think about it, it's not weird. Most journalists are mactards so they don't really think twice about commenters like you.

[J @ Jun 4th 2009 9:02AM]

I've never understood the fascination with the ipod. Please please don't take this as flaming, anti-fanboyism, etc. I've had a couple and used them, and just don't get it. They work fine, they don't do anything special, but they are quite expensive compared to the competition. I've also had the sandisk 'sansa' mp3 player, a couple of cheapy chinese players, an mp3 CD player way back when; and they've all been fine to use, and all had their stupid/annoying issues too.

Honestly I am curious why people like the ipod so much, or is it just because it's "the one to have"? I've never found a reason why it's a better music-playing-device than another.

[Paul a. Chapel @ Jun 4th 2009 9:08AM]

The iPod was better because it actually had a system for buying music. While all the other MP3 players wanted you to pay a subscription to listen to music, Apple didn't. Price isn't always the final word on a product. People are more willing to pay for music and music systems than they are for something like a PC for instance, which explains why some people had huge CD libraries back in the day.

[superhobo @ Jun 4th 2009 9:09AM]

Yes, it is "the one". Apple ads make them seem so cool, that's all.

Their sound quality is pretty crap compared to Sony's players.

[sparticus @ Jun 4th 2009 9:30AM]

I don't think the iPod is so popular strictly due to the ability to purchase music through itunes (of course, this does help). Personally I think it all boils down to it's ease of use. Several members of my family use an iPod nano flawlessly but let them try to navigate my Sony player...different story entirely!

[---- @ Jun 4th 2009 10:02AM]

@superhobo

so go by a sony and shut up .. sony sound quality is not any better or any worse

[superhobo @ Jun 4th 2009 10:07AM]

@----:

lolwut? Ever compared them? Ever even used one?

[Josh @ Jun 4th 2009 10:10AM]

yeah, i think it's popular for a few reasons...while it wasn't technically first to market, it was perceived by millions as that, it was just the "first" and most familiar as far as the public was concerned. they advertise a lot more than the competitors do, and have a long standing and familiar product line in their computers. itunes helped out a lot with the method of buying music, and a huge teen audience adapted it as the "cool" player. once people became familiar with it, most probably just never changed. then the touch and iphone came out and the app store blew up, so there is really nothing that can compete with that currently - i'd like to see how the zune hd measures up

[Adderz @ Jun 4th 2009 10:29AM]

Thats the thing, there is nothing overly special about ipods. They just do what they do really well.

Sony, Creative, iRiver pump out player after player in the hopes that one the public will like one of them, Apple have 1 player and refine it, any problems are ironed out, the interface stays the same, its just a good all round product.

I have had Creative in the past, they just try to do too much and end up being a horrible to use feature packed piece of crap.

[216 @ Jun 4th 2009 9:01AM]

I always thought Creative was in 2nd place? I used to be a Creative Fanboy until the Touch came out. Ever since then, it just seems that Creative has just fallen harder and harder

[damiaking @ Jun 4th 2009 9:01AM]

i agree my first mp3 player was the first gen nano and then i got a zune when i t came out .i had to go throut 7 zune they keep breaking after 3 months yes thank god i had a replacment plan for 2 years ..after my last zune broke i got an ipod touch and is one of the best gadget i have am not an applefanboy but i admit my ipod touch is the shit i would never change it for another mp3 player

[telepheedian @ Jun 4th 2009 9:20AM]

Your opinion doesn't matter because we can't take you seriously. Learn some grammar and punctuation if you want to share something with the world.

[NickNick @ Jun 4th 2009 9:24AM]

@telepheedian

Stop being a prick.

[---- @ Jun 4th 2009 9:58AM]

@telepheedian

at least his comment is related to the story ... you say "we can't take you seriously" .. please speak for yourself and not for others .. have a nice day