Engadget Podcast 154 - 07.11.2009
By Trent Wolbe 
posted July 11th 2009 3:25PM
posted July 11th 2009 3:25PM
Hosts: Joshua Topolsky, Nilay Patel, Paul Miller
Guest: Michael Gartenberg
Producer: Trent Wolbe
Song: No Rain
Hear the podcast
00:01:22 - Google announces Chrome OS, coming to netbooks second half of 2010
00:26:37 - myTouch 3G hands-on (with video!)
00:39:35 - New HTC Hero ROM leaked, Flash 10 already chugging along on a few lucky G1s
00:56:25 - Sony Ericsson Rachael UI video leaks out, Kiki comes for the ride
01:04:55 - Android 1.5 gets official SDK for native development
01:12:58 - Sony announces VAIO W... netbook!
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Twitter: @joshuatopolsky @futurepaul @reckless @engadget
Are you guys friends with the Gizmodo writers?
Apparently. They spent half of their podcast bitching about Google. Apple Fanbois much?
i really like this site alot, i read it once a day, but to be honest it was hard making out things at times because everyone was talking over each other.
Just my 2 cents.
otherwise i liked to hear the differing opinions.
thanks
I think anytime you have four tech nerds (and I mean that in a good way), yakking completely unscripted about their favorite topic, you're going to get people talking over each other and interrupting each other. That said, I love listening to the Engadget Podcast, particularly all the fun banter that goes on between these guys. It's as good as any radio show.
"differing opinions"?
Seriously?
How is "WAAAHHH WAHHH WE HATE GOOGLE" different from all the other iphone love blogs?
josh you sound different today, do you have a cold or something.
lol so gay.
No bobert is for caring oh so nicely for Josh and cold
So, basically, what you're saying is that Google is stupid? :D
Let's just say you guys lack imagination. Imagine that Chrome OS will be something better than Windows XP in the same way Android is better than WinMo.
@Pies, Android hasn't come close to WinMo yet. Give them a little more time. A browser will not top a full OS.
@templarian - then what's the point of a netbook?
No bobert is for caring oh so nicely for Josh and cold. *sniffle*
in general the whole podcast sounded muffled for me at least.
What a echo :) But I really love your podcast, good job.
I don't understand how Chrome OS is so far fetched? HTML 5 supports offline apps, so things will work just fine when not connected to the cloud.
This is not supposed to replace Windows. It is filling the Netbook whole which Windows is not a good fit for. Give me an instant on OS with extremely good battery life and offline app access and I am good.
Instant OS?
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't google say they are aiming for a 25 second boot time. That doesn't seem to instant to me?
No mention of Adobe of a partner and what that may mean?
*as a partner
Sorry if I am repeating my self, not sure if my first post went through. The vibe on this podcast was not right today. Michael Gartenberg just doesn't fit. They never have really had a problem with people talking over each other before. This was like one of the really bad TWIT episodes.
I agree that Gartenberg kind of threw the chemistry.
Definitely, he was a bad addition.
I'm all for the apple $500 netbook that runs XP! lmfao
What world does Josh live in? Every college student I know uses an application. With the vast vast majority being Office 2007 on Windows or Office 2008 on OS X. You can't get by in college using solely Google Docs. You can barely do it using OpenOffice, but good luck when your professor demands a specific function found only in Office.
Google is over hyped beyond belief. I love Google Search, Gmail, Reader, I use Docs on a regular basis. But for SERIOUS USE for other people in the work world where I know I must have 100% compatibility with 100% identical results I use Microsoft Office. Period.
So what happens when Microsoft releases online versions of Office, with all the features and compatibility of the desktop products?
It seems people aren't looking down the road. I bet Google is paving the ground work now with a lightweight Linux OS to quickly and easily get to online apps. In a few years we will start seeing online apps that rival desktop apps in their functionality.
Conclusion: Chrome OS will work if the right cloud apps are available.
Except all of those light weight Linux distros exist. Ubuntu has a netbook centered release. They're not going to make amazing inroads into battery life. Those Android long lasting devices last so long because of the cell phone and PMP hardware inside, not because of some Android magic. As Michael Gartenberg stated numerous times in the pod cast... what Google is claiming to make already exists and was already rejected by the market.
Slap a Google name and you have ill informed people like you claiming something amazing.
Personally I'll just use my laptop and access what you are PLUS have all of the desktop applications I want. I could also purchase a Windows 7 running netbook and do the same thing.
Have fun with your heavily crippled device.
Ha ill informed. How am I ill informed? I never claimed it was "Amazing"
All I am saying is Google doesn't have a bad idea here. Like I said before this OS isn't going after Windows desktops at first. They are trying to hit the netbook market which has really had an identity crisis around what it should/should not be used for.
If I wanted to use a full desktop OS, I have my MacBook Pro. I can do all work on there. But for the times I want a lightweight, small, extremlely easy to use netbook with instant on and a battery that can last all day with heavy use, Chrome OS might be the best fit.
Why do people want windows on their netbooks? Netbooks should be used like PDA's of the past. (remember those?) You open it up, immediately do what you need to do, then close it. Even though this is possible with Windows and Mac OS X, it is overkill and you won't get the extended battery life from a lightweight Linux OS.
And for the peeps on the podcast saying other companies have tried this in the past, it really doesn't apply to this argument. Google backing this is much bigger than any other company, plus Google will incorporate their many online applications into the OS.
A "light weight" Linux distro is not going to improve battery life. Modern day operating systems from Windows 7, to OS X, to Ubuntu, to whatever use very little resources when idling. In fact, the area you should pay attention the MOST is the browser. You know what browser currently uses the most resources per tab? Chrome. The main improvements come from running on the ARM processors and their related platforms (such as Tegra, etc). This can be done already with Ubuntu's netbook centered OS.
Again, you're completely ignorant and you're painting a picture that is not the case. You can already integrate Google's online applications into an OS. Using either Chrome's method in Windows or even Prism now offered by Mozilla for Firefox.
This OS already exists and in a more feature complete form.
Battery life and instant on usuability is not a strength of a desktop OS. I have a strong feeling Chrome OS is using the basic underpinnings of Android, which from the beginning was designed for mobile use from the start. Battery life being on the top of their list when creating the mobile OS.
So by your logic, a Windows and other desktop OS's will last just as long and have just the same usability as a chrome OS netbook? Chrome OS running on ARM CPU's will kick the crap out of any x86 windows netbook in terms of battery life.
Again this comes back around to what this OS will be used for. People don't get it, as you don't get it. Please refrain from posting stupid comments like "you're completely ignorant and you're painting a picture that is not the case."
What is not the case? You think a Windows Netbook can hold a candle to mobile usability from a lightweight extremely power efficient OS? What I don't think you under stand, people don't want to use windows everywhere. They only use windows because they feel they HAVE to. There are no other options worth a damn at the momemnt.
I was a little shocked to hear just how off you guys were on a subject you should clearly really get. The comments here seem to support that too. The analyst guy was the worst, clearly nonsense coming out of his mouth most of the time. This joke fits fairly well with this guy.
"Hey, Mister. Want a puppy?"
"I think my wife spoke with you last week. What kind of dogs are these?"
"Oh. These are decision analysts."
"I thought you said last week that they were economists."
"Yeah, but they've opened their eyes since then."
While I'm quite happy to admit the moment this was announced that I got excited and immediately started running through all the possibilities in my mind that could come of this small nugget of information. I've had more time to think about it now and I think in general, everyone has. The initial wave of OMG Windows is Dead has died down and has been replaced with rehashes of the same mini arguments over why this will or won't work.
Talking with anyone that has opinions like "They've tried to get Linux in the mainstream before" "We've had thin clients before, they failed" and really a dozen other statements that show a huge lack of understanding of what is happening today. I'm not even going to try and add in why the idea as a concept is great, at this point, you either agree or you don't. We have nothing to see that can really support either argument. All we do have is the bigger picture of what Google has been doing, what other companies like Microsoft are doing and more importantly, the statistics of how the computing masses are using computers today.
I'll definetly get on board the debate again when something concrete appears, like a public beta, but for now I just wanted to say that Engadget failed miserably in understanding the potential Chrome OS has as an idea, with the worlds largest ad platform behind it, and it really puts me of listening if this is really indicative of how uniformed you guys really are. I have to err on the side of optimism here and guess you know a lot more than this podcast suggests, perhaps its just a lack of vision, which isn't necessarily a terrible thing in a tech site.
I think Microsoft has shown with their recent release of Silverlight 3 that they too are dedicated to providing a richer experience in the cloud.
The devil you know
I rarely comment, but after listening to the podcast like usual, Gartenberg really didn't fit. The guy is obviously very knowledgeable of tech in general, but he likes to talk over others and his opinions are very skewed and honestly a little off-putting.
But, thanks for the updates on all the new Android stuff.
Totally agreed. Not be agist, but he is from a completely different generation than the normal engadget guys. I honestly think that makes a huge difference in the way you view technology. He can't wrap his mind around the idea of moving away from desktop apps.
Assus.
Completely agreed. He doesn't fit. He must have had this idea that in order to be on the podcast he had to make some sort of an impact instead of trying to catch the conversation. I enjoy his writing, but he should relax in future appearances if they happen.
+1
Though I wouldn't confuse Gartenberg's loud opinion for an ability to understanding the industry he watches. "Why did Google have to do a browser?" He doesn't get it. He doesn't get the cloud paradigm. He doesn't get the netbook paradigm. He doesn't even get Google's business model.
Agree, he talks way too muchwithoutabreak, the others can't get a word in when he gets going.
LOL. Assus. He got shot down on that.
Stop talking about engadget mobile podcast when they dont even do one.
meh........ alot of hate towards companies.......
Please learn to read. As I have already pointed out more than once; Ubuntu can run on ARM based hardware and would achieve the same battery life ranges. This isn't about the OS, they're all efficient enough where it counts, it is about the hardware it can run on. All of the Linux distributions can be ported to ARM fairly easily. Chrome OS is NOT UNIQUE in that regard AT ALL. Why would you want a cloud-only, web app only OS when you can get one running Ubuntu Remix on the same ARM hardware that offers a full fledged OS with and can also access ALL OF THE SAME ONLINE FEATURES. Really this isn't even a question, the answer is obvious.
Ubuntu Remix vs Chrome OS. Give me Ubuntu Remix any day. I can already get Remix.
Ubuntu isn't backed by Google the same way Chrome is. How many Linux based Mobile Phone OS's have been tried and failed, but Android worked. Why? Because it is backed by a company people know and use their products everyday.
I have nothing against Ubuntu, but Ubuntu is still a desktop OS meant for desktop use. I don't care if it can run on ARM. Can it run on ARM and give you the battery life of a smartphone? Does the OS push cloud storage and instant on/off without "hibernation mode?
Just because Ubuntu can run on an ARM CPU doesn't mean it automatically gets better battery life. The OS has EVERYTHING to do with it, and with Chrome OS being so streamlined I can only guess the battery life numbers will be closer to smartphones than netbooks running Ubuntu on an ARM system.
This is a product that that doesn't even exist yet, and people are already dismissing it because they have preconceived notions. Chrome OS will have a place in the world, people just aren't seeing down the road enough to see the potential. (This is called vision, something you gain once you have been in the industry more than 15 years.)
Re Android tethering:
All the tethering apps have been removed from the android market, but you can still side load tethering apps. Most tethering apps require root, but pdanet doesn't require root and works find
http://www.junefabrics.com/android/index.php
Re HTC magic/hero 512meg internal storage:
512 megs of storage on the magic and hero is actually quite a lot. Its about 4x the amount the g1 has. G1 has about 70megs of internal storage available for user apps, the magic/hero has almost 300megs. And since android apps are so small, 300megs is a huge amount. 95% of android users will not have space issues on the magid or hero.
For those who have a g1, I highly recommend rooting and installing the cyanogen custom ROM. Its significantly better than the stock 1.5 ROM and makes the g1 feel like a brand new phone.
A couple of highlights of the ROM:
1. Super fast. Almost twice as fast as the stock 1.5 image. The increase in performances comes from:
a. CPU max speed set to 528mhz plus thresholding tweaks that makes transitioning from low speed to high speed smoother.
b. Kernel upgraded from 2.26.27 to 2.26.29 and all the performance improvements that go with .29 kernel.
c. Performance and memory patches from the android donut and master branches that didn't make it onto the 1.5 image.
2. Automatic apps to sd card (my biggest complaint about the g1). All you need to do is partition your sdcard so that you have 2nd ext2/ext3 partition and the cyanogen rom will do the rest and put all your apps onto the sdcard and give you almost unlimited amounts of space for applications. I recommend the "gparted live" cd to do the partitioning. Very easy and doesn't wipe your fat32 partition.
3. Includes HTC virtual keyboard that the engadget crew raves about.
Download it from xda-dev forums.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=518851
Kinda disappointed at the short-sighted comments made during the conversation about Chrome. You said it yourselves... we don't know much about it yet and what proportion of the OS will be strictly web based and what will be traditional. Mr. Gartenburg joked about being the old man in the conversation and he comfortably fit that role. Is he seriously saying that Google should just find their place in the market as a compliment to Microsoft? I agree that the media attention is extremely unearned and premature, but people like Michael are the reason why companies are so "aggressively mediocre".
Yes, we shouldn't be dubbing Chrome as the successor to the throne, but similarly it's just as premature to call this a failed attempt with a bad strategy.
Ordinarily I love Engadget. But today I am more than a little disappointed. The podcast lacked anything even resembling vision. True the internet isn't everything. But haven't you noticed a trend over say the last decade. Everything is going to the internet. Larry Ellison's idea was bad because it wasn't time for it yet. Its moronic to say they PCs as they now aren't going to change change is the nature of the industry.
"hate using Twitter on the web" The internet is constantly improving. late 2010. Web apps way better than they were a few years ago. That trend is just going to continue and speed up.
Engadget please acquire some vision. All you guys care about is pretty looking gadgets.
The net is everything.
I don't ever want to install a program, configure it, move files to a new computer, back up things, etc.
That's a fair thing to ask for. I've often wondered why this problem hasn't really been tackled above ever more complicated backup solutions. Apple had a good stab at it with Time Machine but it wasn't a big enough idea to really answer what you want. Web Apps all in the cloud seems like the solution but it can't really cope with all possibilities that a request like that generates.
I have 1000 movies, these can't live in the cloud today so you'd have to move files as hardware was replaced for instance. A really tough egg to crack in such a simple sounding request :)
I do agree that the web is everything today. You can really feel this when you're forced to go offline for a period. The computer just feels dead. I'm very unhappy when my cable goes out and even offline tasks like writing are seriously hampered without being able to go online and fact check, discuss and research.
Michael Gartenberg sounds like a right laugh... or a cynical belligerent anti-fun.
Your podcasts are interesting and informative but could be so much better if people didn't talk over each other and derail discussions with silly quips. Like it or not the person leading the discussion needs to do just that.
Has michael used android? I'll agree 1.0 was rudimentary, but 1.5 is definitely a very competitive OS compared to the others.
So Michael Gartenberg really thinks that Google spent millions of dollars making Google Docs purely to frustrate MS? And this guy is supposedly a serious analyst?