webOS SDK bemoaned by iPhone developer as Palm seeks game API engineers
by Thomas Ricker 
posted Jul 20th 2009 at 5:43AM
With such amazing software capabilities flourishing on the iPhone, Palm can't afford to wait a year while they make the transition from web apps to native apps in their SDK. Palm might have had a chance against the 2007 Apple SDK, but not the 2009 version. Not even close. With this limitation, webOS will not be taken seriously by consumers who place importance on games or sophisticated third party apps.Of course Palm, now with its deep Apple roots isn't blind to the issue. In fact, the kids at PreCentral have uncovered a Palm job listing from June 29th seeking Game Frameworks Engineers who will "design, implement, debug, and optimize frameworks for game development." So while the beta release of the webOS SDK might be limited, we'll key on the word beta for now. Remember, Super Monkey Ball wasn't built in a day -- it took a bit more than 365 of them before being offered after the launch of the original iPhone.
Read -- Craig A. Hunter
Read -- Palm game engineer listing
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
IzzyNobre @ Jul 20th 2009 5:51AM
"Remember, Super Monkey Ball wasn't built in a day"
If I hadn't played Super Monkey Ball deluxe, you could have fooled me. That game is terrible and I wouldn't have doubted it if they claimed to have ported it in a day.
Cheddar @ Jul 20th 2009 8:38AM
It didn't actually take 1 year to develop super monkey ball...they had a working version after a week or two as reported at MacWorld...the article is a bit misleading.
That said...I played that game for a few days and moved on to better games. The folks at Sega have really dropped the ball with respect to updates and other things they could have done with their games on the iPhone.
Jakob @ Jul 20th 2009 5:51AM
I see Palm Pre probably will change their SDK to native apps, but wouldn't that conflict with the whole webOS concept? Please enlighten me :)
Barky @ Jul 20th 2009 7:40AM
I think the two concepts could coexist. Just like web and desktop apps co exist today on bigger computers. If I need to code up a simple app on a Pre I'll probably want to use Mojo just because it is so easy.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:28AM
:shrug:
My webOS games all look great. This guy's fucked.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:30AM
To note, those are games I am developing. That's right, gameS. PLURAL. Simultaneously. It's a genius framework. I really hate iPhone people... -_-
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:34AM
Also, at least Palm doesn't REMOVE features from their projects, gives you the essentials (cut&paste, multitasking say hello), and innovates way more than, say, Apple has attempted the last 2 years.
Brandon L @ Jul 20th 2009 9:54AM
webOS is built on web technology, but that doesn't mean that the SDK can't take advantage of the all the stuff that native apps can take advantage of. Even some online Flash games and Javascript games can take advantage of the hardware available on the computer (ie Camera, mic, etc).
Also, in response to the quoted article:
With such amazing software capabilities flourishing on the iPhone, Palm can't afford to wait a year while they make the transition from web apps to native apps in their SDK. Palm might have had a chance against the 2007 Apple SDK, but not the 2009 version. Not even close. With this limitation, webOS will not be taken seriously by consumers who place importance on games or sophisticated third party apps.
Palm isn't waiting a year. In fact, they are moving quicker than Apple did in regards to any form of an SDK. It took Apple a year after the release of the initial iPhone: it took Palm what, 5-6 weeks? True that Apple had no competitors and could take their sweet time while Palm has to get the ball rolling, but for a company that many thought would declare Chapter 9 after not doing so well for years, they're not doing that badly of a job. Just takes a little patience.
Also, Palm is catering to a different crowd. The iPhone is a multimedia device first and a phone second I'd say. The emphasis is in the app store, and it's maaaaaaany time-wasting games and non-productive apps (look at the top ten list for paid and free apps as an example). If you're looking for hardcore gaming, get a DSi, PSP, or something of that sort. Or you could get an iPhone and live with the games on that. If you place your importance in a phone in playing games, then, um, you have the wrong mindset lol.
MaxPower @ Jul 20th 2009 10:11AM
@Brandon
Count me in the group of people who want a phone first. I got the pre because I wanted a smartphone my wife could easily use.
Could have gone with an iphone, but with at&t's plans I'll stick with the pre and spend some of the $1000+ saved over two years on PSP games made for an actual gaming platform.
Jakob @ Jul 20th 2009 10:20AM
"webOS is built on web technology, but that doesn't mean that the SDK can't take advantage of the all the stuff that native apps can take advantage of. Even some online Flash games and Javascript games can take advantage of the hardware available on the computer (ie Camera, mic, etc)."
No it doesn't, but 3D flash games on a desktop can be very slow, try it on a mobile platform - just try to watch a video, it's not great. And still that wasn't my complain, I think it's cool to base an entire OS around the web platform (both webOS and ChromeOS are doing that), but if they release a native SDK, the whole webOS-concept is dead.
"Palm isn't waiting a year. In fact, they are moving quicker than Apple did in regards to any form of an SDK. It took Apple a year after the release of the initial iPhone: it took Palm what, 5-6 weeks? True that Apple had no competitors and could take their sweet time while Palm has to get the ball rolling, but for a company that many thought would declare Chapter 9 after not doing so well for years, they're not doing that badly of a job. Just takes a little patience."
Apple also made a web SDK available at iPhone launch, so in that regard they're know different. But sure Apple got competitors?!?! They were brand new at this market - sure they were first at mixing a smartphone with a more consumer friendly aspect, that however doesn't mean Apple isn't in competetion with Nokia, SE, Microsoft etc.
"Also, Palm is catering to a different crowd. The iPhone is a multimedia device first and a phone second I'd say. The emphasis is in the app store, and it's maaaaaaany time-wasting games and non-productive apps (look at the top ten list for paid and free apps as an example). If you're looking for hardcore gaming, get a DSi, PSP, or something of that sort. Or you could get an iPhone and live with the games on that. If you place your importance in a phone in playing games, then, um, you have the wrong mindset lol."
Agree if you're REALLY serious about games, purchase a PSP or DS, but I still like to play a fun game on the train or when I'm really bored. Excactly the same if I was serious about my photos I would buy a real camera. Or GPS.
I'm sorry I sounds like an Apple fanboy (I am!!) but a good one.. I've played around with the Palm Pre.. and holy crap Cards is implented awesome. We really need true multitasking on the iPhone. The Pre is also pretty :D
anodynewake @ Jul 20th 2009 11:45AM
So, who exactly cares if the Palm Pre's app catalog doesn't measure up to the iPhone's? I'm not 14. I don't want 40,000 useless applications and games to choose from. It seems their decision is strategic: holding the reigns, knowing that serious developers will still develop for the Pre, hopefully preventing all the riffraff from bloating the catalog with their crapware.
I'm with everyone else: Phone first, everything else second. If I wanted to play games, why would I waste my time tinkering around on a 3" screen, anyway??
urandom @ Jul 20th 2009 11:47AM
@Jakob
It's all in the implementation, just because 3d flash games are slow, that doesn't mean that games written in javascript have to be. Javascript is just a language, and its the exposed APIs that can make writing 3d accelerated games possible. Such work has already been done before (take a look at seed and its clutter bindings), so it should be quite possible to do something similar for the Pre.
Quix @ Jul 20th 2009 12:44PM
"If I wanted to play games, why would I waste my time tinkering around on a 3" screen, anyway??" - anodynewake
Um, because you can game on a device that's in your pocket ALL THE TIME??? Or do you whip out a laptop for some gaming entertainment in the doctor's waiting room?
As for the "who cares about gaming?" from the anti-Apple crowd, you people need to get your talking points straight.
"Macs suck because there are no games."
"iPhones suck - who cares about games? I'm all about serious work!"
Make up your minds.
Quix @ Jul 20th 2009 12:47PM
@ Gibson: you've single-handedly given this entire story the pungent aroma of freshly-cut astroturf. I think you've hit your comment limit on this story...
Ben @ Jul 20th 2009 12:49PM
@anodynewake
Maybe you don't want those "crapware" apps, but there is surley a portion of people who own this phone, 14 year olds or so you might say, that would download those apps like crazy.
If you think that people don't want those apps, think again. Why do you think iFart was on the top 10 list on iPhone so long??
Though stupid, people download them.
Mopo @ Jul 20th 2009 2:23PM
@Quix
As a Pre user and a gamer, I personally don't care to use my mobile device as a gaming platform. If it has a few interesting games great, if not I do not care. I would rather play games on my PC. If I was at a doctor’s office I would probably be working on an email. Not everyone wants to play a game during down time.
Just because "we" don't care about how many games are on the iPhone does not make us anti-Apple. I like Apple products and believe that people buy Macs for graphic design, the OS, or they are just fanatics. Obviously, if you are a gamer you would have a PC or a console, etc. I went with a Pre versus iPhone because I believe the OS fits my needs better. Most of my friends that have iPhones don’t play games on it or care if it does have the best games. They bought it because it was the best phone/mobile device at the time.
At the end of the day, I buy what suits my needs not because of the logo it has on it.
Eric @ Jul 20th 2009 5:27PM
i bet the people over at qt would have something to say about this. you can accomplish some great things with webkit.
and also, i fail to see how this is a dead end for palm. they still don't have to go "native." They could just extend the mojo api / javascript to include openGL and what not.
dtatgenho @ Jul 23rd 2009 1:45PM
So, now we take the opinion of one random iPhone developer as the consensus on developing for the Pre?
I always love a sample set of 1 ...
Freakin Ijit @ Jul 20th 2009 5:54AM
Palm is seeking not game engineers, but game API engineers.
So let's see...they get a few of them on-board and those folks start designing some APIs and how many years pass before those APIs are ready for the REAL game engineers?
Thomas Ricker @ Jul 20th 2009 6:17AM
Fair point. Updated the headline so as not to confuse -- Thomas
Pastry Chef @ Jul 20th 2009 5:57AM
Having apps built around HTML, Javascript, and CSS is why multitasking works relatively well. Once they allow developers to build true native apps, how do you think that much touted multitasking is going to work??? My guess is probably quite horribly.
Templarian @ Jul 20th 2009 8:26AM
You can pause the apps process and throw in an overlay when it is switched to card mode. And my guess is Palm will require this, so I don't see much of a hit. Plus there are quite a few places palm can optimize their OS still.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:37AM
This makes no sense, Pastry Chef, sorry.
Eric @ Jul 20th 2009 11:28AM
The camera currently multitasks just as Templarian described. When you go into card view, it simply replaces the camera image with an overlay until you maximize the camera app again. Pastry Chef fail.
Boards of Canada @ Jul 20th 2009 6:08AM
Hey guys, sorry im off topic but I just got an Iphone 3G yesterday. It was free with a 2 years contract with Softbank, 44$ per month. I was wondering what applications and games are considered a "must have".
What are the apps I should look on the appstore?
Dragonfly @ Jul 20th 2009 6:18AM
Try the game Field Runners, its fantastic! Also if you wanna IM you can't do much better than BeejiveIM, its got push.
Boards of Canada @ Jul 20th 2009 7:10AM
Thank you very much, I just checked Field Runners and it look like lot of fun. Beejive look great but I wonder how it is better than the native messaging system on the Iphone. Im in japan, we use sms a lot and I think its free for softbank user to user.
Dragonfly @ Jul 20th 2009 8:37AM
Beejive (for me anyway) is better than texting because you get your messages almost instantly. Plus you can talk to more than one person at the same time (just by switching chats) a lot quicker than you can with text.
Cheddar @ Jul 20th 2009 8:54AM
Some of the basics depending on your preferences:
Shazam
AroundMe
AccuWeather
Sportacular
ScoreCenter
WSJ
Facebook
Showtimes
Remote
9-Toolbox
Some good games:
I Dig It
HoldEm
HeavyMach
iFighter
JellyCar
Flood-it!
StoneLoops!
World War/Kingdoms (if you are into those)
iShoot
Some other general apps:
Bump
IfFound
Spell Number
Mobile Pro (if etrade customer)
There are thousands of apps...just download some and give them a whirl...most are free so it is no skin off your nose for trying.
Pastry Chef @ Jul 20th 2009 9:02AM
Jaddu VNC, Newsstand, Fluent News, MLB At-Bat.
Boards of Canada @ Jul 20th 2009 11:34AM
Sorry about that Gibson... at least its useful to me.
Wow thanks guys, im gonna check all those apps quietly and get the free ones (obviously) and pay for what is necessary.
Amazing list, thanks!
BoC
Tsing Tao @ Jul 20th 2009 2:36PM
F.A.S.T. Great flight sim. Flight Control. WorldVoice Radio, Photoforge, Logmein ignition, skype, red sky, metasquares, Simplify Music.
VanillaSpice @ Jul 20th 2009 10:23PM
@Gibson, who asked "What the f**k is this 'trolling' that I've heard so much about recently?"
I don't know why you're confused - your behaviour on this article is a perfect example of trolling. Now that you've been given the definition, please don't do it again.
Boards of Canada @ Jul 21st 2009 8:22AM
Wow, Jaadu VNC look incredibly useful!! You can start your renders away from home!!
Dave @ Jul 20th 2009 6:08AM
Didn't I see an article on Engadget that had full up PS1 games running on the Pre? Seems fairly capable to me, but I'm sure I don't know anything.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:39AM
The hardware is capable of 3D, but the API doesn't have built-in support. You can still do it, don't misunderstand (as most do) but you need to work out your own solution.
Carniphage @ Jul 20th 2009 6:09AM
Having multiple web-pages open is not multi-tasking. It's multi-paging.
C.
Freakin Ijit @ Jul 20th 2009 6:34AM
Yes and no - "tabbed" browsers, no matter if those tabs are displayed as tabs or as separate windows ala Pre cards, are "simply" multi-paged browsers. But the underlying framework that the Pre (and other) browser uses can have a PROCESS per "tab" instead of merely a thread.
As such (though I have no idea if the Pre ACTUALLY does it) the Pre's multiple web pages could indeed each be in a separate process.
joshua @ Jul 20th 2009 7:11AM
They aren't regular web pages. They are web based applications. There are a set of existing APIs that let you interface with parts of the phone. And if you think that not having the best gaming platform is going to put Palm out of business you are a deluded manchild.
Look at the APIs on developer.palm.com before coming to conclusions that its just a bunch of web pages running at once.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:41AM
Jealous much, Carniphage?
SABRAGE @ Jul 20th 2009 6:16AM
Oh god! Everything isn't perfect right out the door! The end is nigh!
LandMineHare @ Jul 20th 2009 6:27AM
Isn't that what everyone was touting about the iPhone?
Tonicboy @ Jul 20th 2009 8:26AM
Actually, that's pretty close to the truth. Apple had the advantage of being first to market with a "next-gen" smartphone/app store/platform. They had the luxury of improving their product in a market with no true competitors. Palm is not only late to that market, but they have an uphill battle in terms of reputation and mindshare. So they really did need to get it almost perfect right out the gate, and any flaws will hurt them much more than it hurt Apple.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:43AM
@Tonicboy
The innovators rule the market. Right now, the innovators are at Palm (and really never were at Apple, to be honest -- no copy and paste for over 2 years?!).
Jeff @ Jul 20th 2009 12:28PM
@ Gibson:
You can't honestly say that Apple wasn't innovative because they didn't include cut-and-paste. Cut-and-paste is not innovating. After all, many other platforms had it already (the very opposite of innovation).
Innovators DO rule the market. Like it or not, the iPhone was and is an innovative product. It's not the be-all-end-all, but it's nothing to scoff at either. Apple concentrated on innovating two years ago, and that's why they're ahead now. They saw opportunities to differentiate themselves from competitors (UI and SDK), and they focused development first on those things, then added what everyone else already had later. You may not agree with their decision to omit some things at launch, but you can't argue that it hasn't worked in their favor. They put their efforts where they needed to be.
Quix @ Jul 20th 2009 12:47PM
"Right now, the innovators are at Palm" - Gibson.
LOL!!!! So Apple turns the mobile world on its head with the iPhone, but isn't "innovating." I see. But Palm comes along 2 years later, copies what Apple did and adds multitasking, and that makes them the innovators?
LOL!!!!
Troll Different.
P.S. my prediction: Palm doesn't survive independently until 2012. Can you say "Microsoft acquisition?"
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 2:28PM
So placating the consumer whore market is called innovation now?
LOL!!!!
Check out the Palm LifeDrive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LifeDrive
Yeah, it was released in 2005. LOL to that.
Dragonfly @ Jul 20th 2009 6:22AM
Hmmmm, it'll be very interesting to see how the Pre's multitasking performs when it has to run complex 3D games (Needs For Speed for example) as well as Mail, Messaging, Web, and Pandora at the same time.
Gibson @ Jul 20th 2009 9:40AM
Probably great. It runs like butter at the moment, I don't see how anything would interfere if programmed correctly.
Tsing Tao @ Jul 20th 2009 2:41PM
@Gibson hahahahahahahahah lololololl hahahahahaha. Ok super troll, i could ignore all your other ignorant posts but this one is just ridiculous. The Pre in way runs like butter. Open pandora, gizmodo in the web browser and email, and then open something new, now count the seconds, measure the lag. Its not butter, its "usable" but it certainly aint butter, or mustard.
It’s a good start, thats about it. Im not downplaying webOS at all it’s a slick little platform, but to say it runs smooth like butter is the biggest lie, i cant even see how you managed to type it, you must have been laughing so hard.