Kindle DX called "poor excuse of an academic tool" in Princeton pilot program
By Nilay Patel 
posted September 28th 2009 1:44PM
posted September 28th 2009 1:44PM
[Thanks, Tom]
posted September 28th 2009 1:44PM
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@DR House,
How is that different to Microsoft Reader on Windows Mobile??
I am pretty sure that is around there forever and have lots of free eBooks on the web for you to enjoy. Yes, you can argue it does not have amazon's extended features, but if just reading books. I am pretty sure a d-pad would work much better than flicking around pages.
Damn, I find reading on my iphone to be irritating at best. Every couple of minutes I have to stare off to readjust my eyes. So, no, it doesn't measure up to such a device as the kindle.
That being said, I think books are the way to go in school. Its best to be able to write all over them and mark them for easy reference. I wouldn't like to use the kindle if I had to go to school again.
They could just install a better linux distro and change it, no?
I love the Kindle on my iPhone, and I want a full size Kindle. I have the same problem as the original article though. When you want to share information with someone who has the same book in print form, it's impossible to reference. I don't understand why Amazon didn't do 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, so we knew the reference to the page. Shouldn't be that difficult.
@DR House
"Changing pages on the iphone is a breath taking experience you just change the page like what you do in real life with real books, unless you press a button to change the book page at real life instead of turning the page with your hands?"
Fliping pages on iPhone = breath taking experience? no wonder when I walked pass starbucks it sounded like someone was having sex.
Two weeks? Isn't that a ridiculously short time period for ANY study, especially one for testing a tool?
Here is what it needs to be academically useful. It needs 2 screens - one big, color touchscreen (nothing fancy...) and one much smaller original monochrome. The reason for the color touchscreen would be purely to highlight with different colors at a touch of the page. the small screen would be for note taking, so you select a section and take notes on it, then all those sections come up as you flip through the pages
DR House, why did you just call him poor for no reason? Was it somehow necessary to your argument to be a total ass?
I think we know the real reason behind academia's disdain for electronic readers in general; college textbooks COST a LOT more than regular books. I doubt they would be able to ask the same amount of cash for a virtual book than a real one.
Besides, at the end of semester, a dozen or so textbooks burn SO much longer and brighter than a single Kindle would.
@Duke
What are you talking about? since when being poor is offensive, all what i said that " i understand if you can not offer an iphone" after all it's a quite expensive phone and not everybody can put his hands on this shiny phone.
Now really, if that's not surprising results I don't know what it. I mean, it is not like that wasn't all bleedin' obvious from day 1. Amazon got publicity for its product, period.
OK, I'll bite. I actually own a Kindle DX. It is a wonderful (albeit expensive) reader for novels and generalized non-fiction text. The screen size is exactly right for a book. I just finished reading Dan Brown's new novel (don't waste your time) on it, for example. It's also very good for quick, "look it up" kinds of reference. For example, I keep the user's manuals in PDF form for all my gadgetry and cameras on it.
However... it is no good for true reference work. I tried 2 different tutorial-type books on it (one on After Effects, another on JavaScript) and both were nearly impossible to navigate and use. I ended up returning both and getting the big print editions.
In Summary: If you've got the means, the Kindle DX is an awesome device for reading any solely text-based book, either fiction or non-fiction. Also IMHO very good for reading magazines and newspapers - The Economist on the Kindle DX is much better than the printed version. As a textbook platform? No way, no how. They can forget it.
My iPhone doesn't replace my desktop computer, it just extends its usefulness. Same with Kindle DX. It's a useful and nice way to read a large number of books, but it will never completely replace the printed word for anything and everything.
the sony touch readers blow the kindle away in this area.
And you were just being a jerk. When did he say he didn't have one because of money? You just wanted to sound better than him.
It's AFFORD you trolling muppet!
I'm just going to comment on the references part. It's possible to do a search in the book and find the exact location of any sentence. It's extremely rare that any sentence will show up more than once. Just quote 5 words and a search will locate the exact place they're used.
I see eReaders as being the future. If you only read one or two books a year than you probably won't be saving the environment, but if you go through several dozens and even more for references than the impact on paper waste would be substantial. Also decreasing the amount of trucks that are going around and delivering said books will remove a lot of fuel waste and emissions. Sure, if all your books are in a library than the impact won't be as severe but in that case you would be saving a lot of your time. e-readers need to get better, faster and more affordable as soon as possible so we can reduce all these factors.
i've been saying this since launch day, useless as far a academia is concerned, they should stick to commuters and heavy readers
Dumbass, my wife and I both have and use an iPhone. You make too many assumptions about people. You keep going on and on about other people's finances like you have a clue about them. As I said, you're a jerk.
Both of these complaints sound like they can be solved with software updates. However, to totally write off the Kindle because of one bad experience is pretty shallow of Princeton. Software can only be written better.
It can, at times, be written worse too. Unfortunately.
I was thinking about my college years and how I used books, after hearing about the eBook pilot programs being adopted at various schools. Seems to me the two strong points for the eBooks are:
1) Being able to carry around a lot of "books" to use as reference.
2) Being able to take advantage of search capabilities for content, annotations and bookmarks.
However, I don't think annotations in eBooks is nearly as easy to do as scrawling in the margins. Also, I remember using different color highlighters and page flags to denote different contexts that I wanted to make note of. I guess you could assign different metatags or priority codes with e-bookmarks or e-annotations but that seems kinda kludgy. Also by looking at the relative placement of the flag within the book you could assign it a general context (if you know general table of contents of the book), so it gave you a relative place where you could begin your search if you needed to find more information on a certain topic. As far as I know, no eBook currently gives you these kinds of tools. It's pretty much search by keywords only.
thats why i wanna get the sony reader touch edition, if you cant annotate, whats the flipping point of using it as an educational tool?
I don't understand the hate -- Engadget readers seem to be furiously anti-Apple, me simply stating that I find the iPhone a great reader gets voted down? I understand it has nothing to do with this topic, but it was directed at the 'useless' comment. Grow up, folks.
@Dream
They just hate anything related to apple i guess.
I didn't even say kindle is a bad a products, all what i said was who needs a kindle (300-500$) when they can read the same books on the iphone/ipod touch? why pay additional money that's all.
This is where a tablet substantially improves your experience over an e-ink reader...usability with pdfs, color and high refresh rates.
I never wrote in my books in college. But the lack of page numbers would be a problem.
I can tell you I write in a ton of my books. I'm a networking major and i have a ton of textbooks. A lot of times it's much easier to write a small like 3 word note in the margin of a textbook than take out my laptop and write it down as well as a page reference.
Do devices like this have touch-based e-ink screens, or are those two separate things?
I think a lot of academics would abandon paper really quickly if (as the Katz guy says) they could write in the margins etc. (multicoded underlining is good, but not enough).
So I think they need;
- Fast/instant stylus-writable e-ink screens.
- Some kind of instant flip-back/forward marking scheme.
- Compatibility with pdfs (JSTOR completely dominates academia).
I also suspect it'll only work if they can have A4 or US-letter (and legal?) size screens. Plus integration with Microsoft Word would be a big advantage.
The issue with pdf on the Kindle is the painfully slow eink, see comment from a Kindle owner above.
The problem with college students using a Kindle is the people who love their Kindle are OLD. I use one when I travel for business, have read dozens of novels on it. Useful as its light and I can buy books at the airport. But the navigation is slow, slow, slow. The dark gray and light gray (its not black or white) is ok for text, but images suck - lots of those in textbook. Lastly it is not flashy, well its very flashy when you turn the page, but it ain't sexy compared to an iPod, or any modern electronic device. I hope the next generation Kindle uses an LED (why have they dropped the O from OLED?) or a low power LCD. Can't wait for a Crunch Tablet, iTablet, or even the Microsoft tablet they showed off last week.
Oh, like no one saw this coming..*rolls eyes*.
this will always be why e-books will never replace real books.
Shouldn't it be a "poor excuse FOR an academic tool"?
Yes it should.
Small point: The day must come when we don't use page numbers for reference, but something else, perhaps similar to Purple Numbers?
I adore my kindle one and use it in college, but I use in addition to the regular book. The page number issue is a huge problem along with the other things mentioned.
I really think the kindle is more suited for reading for fun, which is what I do. I suppose we'll see what happens when the K3 comes out.
I am currently in a Kindle Pilot program at another university and I thought I might put in my opinions. Many of the criticisms that are voiced in the article, especially the uncomfortable feelings by the users, are not necessarily true. There is a learning curve to adapting to the new format-but after that it is quite usable. The point that the location numbers are useless to anyone working from a analog book is true-but in a class with all Kindles it is not a problem. One can simply cite the location (which allows for very easy access to the exact line used). Although I initially felt that the highlighting features were completely useless, I now am pretty comfortable with the Kindle's features. The fact that I can transfer all of my highlights, notes, and bookmarks to my computer is time saving. The comment that it is a "poor excuse of an academic tool" is a definately exaggeration. The ability to quickly reference multiple texts, carry many works to class in one device, and save printing costs are all excellent features. That being said, it still needs significant refinements before it will be able to completely replace the textbook.
Holy smokes. Another "bag of hurt." Oh, well, I guess the fruit company will have to save the day.
I still love my Kindle 2 for personal reading. I don't think I'd use it for academics, but for my personal book collection, it's perfect.
Didn't Princeton know all of this before they started using the DX? Easy pen-based annotation is essential for academic uses. I'm just waiting for someone to get it right. Maybe Irex?
So technophobic old bookworms don't want to give up their dead trees for some newfangled e-whatchamacallit, huh? Big surprise there.
Maybe the old bastards should just retire and let in some fresh blood. Ideally, people who see the advantages in technological progress.
Still, Kindle is a bit ungainly to use, especially when trying to make selections using that clunky little cursor nub. Touchscreen would solve just about all the problems left, though... easy selections, handwritten notes... so maybe Kindle DX2?